Philip Pullman

grimloch

sephirosis wrote:

excellent, EXCELLENT books. perhaps its a testament to their quality that not one person yet has slated the books, as usually happens when a book is lauded on this forum á la harry potter (actually very good) or da vinci code (actually awful).
anyway does anyone else think its a bit unfair that they are marketed as childrens books?? i think many adults would miss out on them because of this, but it has philosophical themes which are at an adult level.
ive heard of this fourth book "the book of dust" too, i hope its good. it will be an interesting read if nothing else.
just in case anyone cares my fave charater is mary (i hope thats her name i havent read the books in years!)

That's the beauty of them. They're extremely accessible to younger readers, like myself a few years back, and yet manage to present a few underlying themes to provide entertainment to an older reader without losing the younger ones.

Not the easiest thing in the world to do. Fair play to him.

sephirosis

fair play indeed. <<i claps>>

Calina

Fishie wrote:

But if you remove the religion references, doesn't that kind of destroy the whole point of the books?

Interestingly, I discovered that in America 'The Northern Lights' (the first book of the trilogy) is called 'The Golden Compass' instead. Why do you think that is? I mean, there isn't even a compass in the books - Lyra has her aleithiometer (sp?), but it is certainly not a compass

Actually, if I remember reading an interview with Philip Pullman correctly, book one was originally called the Golden Compass, and was sent to the US publishing industry with that name. It was afterwards that he decided to change it to Northern Lights but when the Americans finally picked up on it, they preferred the Golden Compass to Northern Lights. The German translation is of The Golden Compass, although the French is "Kingdoms of the North". Actually, the French title translations are a bit different, now that I look at them...the second one is Tower of Angels.

Tar.Aldarion

ya just noticed how nobody doesnt like the books hear hear!

sully32

Sorry to rain on the parade. But I thought the trilogy had seriously lost it by the last book. The first book was excellent I think Lyra was a great character. The second was ok, didnt like Will that much. And the third book was so bad it annoys me even thinking about. Everything about it was wrong. The preachy tone (yeah I get it organised religion is not necessarily a force for good), the stupid love story part tacked on at the end and just the general idea that the author had no idea how to finish the story.

Sapien

sully32 wrote:

Sorry to rain on the parade. But I thought the trilogy had seriously lost it by the last book. The first book was excellent I think Lyra was a great character. The second was ok, didn’t like Will that much. And the third book was so bad it annoys me even thinking about. Everything about it was wrong. The preachy tone (yeah I get it organised religion is not necessarily a force for good), the stupid love story part tacked on at the end and just the general idea that the author had no idea how to finish the story.

I disagree - Pullman was bound to the events in Spyglass by the end of Subtle knife. One cannot have two characters dominate the first two books in a series of three without an important relationship between them framing the final instalment. The whole plot arc is an Adam and Eve allegory, and not a particularly subtle one, dealing with innocence, knowledge, taboo, and sexuality. The two characters are really no more than vehicles for abstract notions - Lyra, the liar who can determine the absolute truth; and Will, who can impose his will upon the fabric of space and time using a dagger, which is the archetypal symbol of the will. They had to fall in love, they had to transgress the Great Taboo, and they had to develop into adulthood with the loss of their supernatural childlike faculties. Pullman had no choice.

And the preachy tone hardly arrived out of the blue in Spyglass. It was the inevitable and consistent culmination of the series, relating intimately to the Will/Lyra, Adam/Eve concept. Effectively, the entire series is a re-telling of Paradise Lost, not only from the point of view of the rebellion, but in philosophical sympathy with it. The series as a whole is a surreptitious fable in the evils of religion - a necessary antidote to the vile and hidden indoctrination perpetrated by C.S. Lewis. That's why he's considered to be so dangerous by certain parties.

Tar.Aldarion

that was well put i guess may disagree but only very slightly
great book.

supersheep

Sapien wrote:

I disagree - Pullman was bound to the events in Spyglass by the end of Subtle knife. One cannot have two characters dominate the first two books in a series of three without an important relationship between them framing the final instalment. The whole plot arc is an Adam and Eve allegory, and not a particularly subtle one, dealing with innocence, knowledge, taboo, and sexuality. The two characters are really no more than vehicles for abstract notions - Lyra, the liar who can determine the absolute truth; and Will, who can impose his will upon the fabric of space and time using a dagger, which is the archetypal symbol of the will. They had to fall in love, they had to transgress the Great Taboo, and they had to develop into adulthood with the loss of their supernatural childlike faculties. Pullman had no choice.

And the preachy tone hardly arrived out of the blue in Spyglass. It was the inevitable and consistent culmination of the series, relating intimately to the Will/Lyra, Adam/Eve concept. Effectively, the entire series is a re-telling of Paradise Lost, not only from the point of view of the rebellion, but in philosophical sympathy with it. The series as a whole is a surreptitious fable in the evils of religion - a necessary antidote to the vile and hidden indoctrination perpetrated by C.S. Lewis. That's why he's considered to be so dangerous by certain parties.

My god, the deepness! And I just got an enjoyable story from them... I loved His Dark Materials, the Ruby in the Smoke and that series weren't as good... Even though the end of The Amber Spyglass is possibly the saddest thing I have ever read (apart from Shake Hands With the Devil), it does suffer a little from what I have just decided, on the spur of the moment, to call 'Long Series Dragdown Syndrome' - the tendency of series of books to, while never becoming BAD, get less... readable, maybe? A sense of dragging, that the author's heart isn't quite as much in it as it was. The Chronicles of Narnia has it (I think from the Voyage of the Dawn Treader on), the Wheel of Time has it (The Path of Daggers, especially), Harry Potter has it (the Order of the Phoenix and the Half-Blood Prince) and His Dark Materials has it. A sort of dragging, less-interesting sensation while reading it - perhaps only because the series were so good in the first place. My opinion anyways...
Still love the books, though.

John

Just about everyone talking about the Sally Lockhart trilogy, it's not a trilogy, there are four books. I've read the first two and they were quite good, have the next two lined up. Pullman has released a load of stories he originally wrote as plays for the school he used to teach in, I read Count Karlstein, entertaining but no exactly life changing.

supersheep

Today, I was looking over my books, and I saw the Amber Spyglass. Remembering what I said about the really sad ending, I thought I'd have a quick look (was also trying to see about stealing some of the mood for whatever I write during NaNoWriMo). I dunno, maybe it was the long day, maybe it was some of the personal stuff I went through a wee while back, but I had to put it down - tears were welling in my eyes, and there was a feeling of deep and irrevocable loss in my heart. Even thinking about it now is making me teary eyed. I've no idea why this book has the power to move me so much - only one other book has made me cry, and that was with rage and frustration rather than in sorrow (the other book was Barbara Kingsolver's "Small Wonder". Thank you to she who gave me that book...)
ANyone else been that strongly affected by this book?

inflight

Definitely! The Amber Spyglass is my favourite Pullman novel, and I cried and sniffled quite a bit towards the end also even though it takes a hell of a lot to make me cry. I'm re-reading all his books at the moment cos I've had a Harry Potter overload and Pullman's depth and the emotions he brings out so forcefully always last longer and hit harder than HP. I can't wait for the Book of Dust.

Edit: I'm not re-reading them all at once.. sleepy. I've only started the Sally Lockhart series again. There.

haemogoblin

his dark materials are great, havent read them in a few years,i think they deserve a re-read. is he anywhere near finishing the book of dust?u know theyr making a film?