Karma.

DeVore · 11-07-2001 11:37pm #1

ok, all other threads on karma will be locked in 24 hours. Concentrate your debate here.

Here are my thoughts:

1. The system's ultimate goal is good. It should promote useful interaction and punish crud. ie: boost signal and dampen noise.

2. People are getting a bit slap happy with it. Karma should be respected as a half way house between a warning on the post and 12-clicking. We need to explain to the mods what this new tool they have is for...

3. People who get bad karma will generally complain. Only sometimes is it NOT deserved. So far I have seen precious few people who got negative karma and didnt deserve it.

4. I just dont UNDERSTAND the objection to it. I mean, its not like it does anything (and I'm seriously considering taking off the auto-ban when you hit -10, I didnt realise that was there and I am still unsure that it is true...)

If the objection is some annoyance that these people have some kinda "power" over you (as has been expressed) then I find that even MORE difficult to understand as up to now these people have had the right to close, delete and alter your very post! but oh no, if they give you -1 on a useless rating system everyone is up in arms!

*boggle*

Seriously now, because it seems people really DONT like it and if that was the general view we'd take it out or modify its use but just general Waaaahing doesnt help us understand how you want your communities policed...

so in recap:

1. is the idea of incentivising posters to behave within the rules set by the community a good one or a bad one to begin with (think this through, dont just knee jerk react).

2. What needs to be done to address concerns about the karma system?

3. remember that people who are angry, voice their anger. People who are happy, wont bother so right now I see 15 people unhappy about the system and very few saying its good, but that doesnt mean that you could extrapolate that to the user community at large.

We ALL want the same thing here, a better more useable Boards.ie so lets WORK towards that.

Suggestions? Something constructive rather then destructive?

DeV.

SHADOW · 12-07-2001 12:13am

My main views on karma are in bubbles thread here for further explanation. But in answer to your recap questions dev:

1) Yes the Karma system is a good concept. Not as effective in practise but not for reasons of its design merely reasons of its application.
2)Look very seriously into how the mods award it, where they can award it and come up with some sort of check and balance for the mods to abide by.
3)Very true, but from anyone I've talked to on irc or in RL, most ppl dont paricularly like the system. Again I think that the problem is entirely how its administrated not in the concept itself.

If the bottom falls out of your world, drink Andrews and the world will fall out of your bottom!!
games?

Dave · 12-07-2001 12:21am

Some thoughts from me

1> Basically what shadow said.

2> Only moderator's of a board should hand out karma points for that boards.

-Dave

Repli · 12-07-2001 12:29am

2> Only moderator's of a board should hand out karma points for that boards.

I'm with you 100% on this.
I was given a negative karma point by a moderator *cough*bobtheunluckyoctopus*cough*
on the counter-strike board and he doesn't even moderate it.
In my opinion, the karma system is useless, it angers those with negative karma, and the people with positive karma (which is very rarely given) just dont seem to care.

What is now was once only imagined.

LegacyUser · 12-07-2001 12:43am

Dont u just hate when things dont go your way

PHB · 12-07-2001 12:52am

Forgive me for the long post but its well formatted.

Reasons For Karma

It will give an incentive to act nice and not flame.
It gives people new to the boards a idea of the type of person who posts, eg. a new person joins, Scrappy Flames them, they consider not coming back, but then they see hes -10 so they stay.

Well Point one, We really shouldn't have an incentive it should be standerd practice.
Point 2, realisticly this aint gona happen baby, the person will likly not come back.

Reason Againist Karma

It gives mod powers over all the boards, which some mods should not have.
Example Zero is disliked by a lot of the CS Community, yet he can give bad karma to somebody who Flames him on the CS Board.
There is no rules for karma giving out as such, just a general idea. This leads to different views on where karma should be given. I personally like Shinjis view.

Suggestions to improve Karma

I think at first only admins should be able to give karma, I like the idea but anyone who is helpful just to get karma doesnt really deserve karma does he/she?
If it works then we should expand the people who can give karma to trusted and proven mods.
eg. List from top of my head
Monty
Shinji
LoLth
Hobbes
Rev Hellfire
Gerry
Blade
Keeks
Stephen
Mindphuck[4got bout ya ]
These mods are all trusted and proven
If this works out, which it should. Then we could allow the other mods give karma, on their board only. Until they prove themselves.

In Relation to devs points

We need to explain to the mods what this new tool they have is for...

I really dont think we should have to explain that to a mod.

3. People who get bad karma will generally complain. Only sometimes is it NOT deserved. So far I have seen precious few people who got negative karma and didnt deserve it.

Maybe so, but those times shouldnt have happened.

If the objection is some annoyance that these people have some kinda "power" over you (as has been expressed) then I find that even MORE difficult to understand as up to now these people have had the right to close, delete and alter your very post! but oh no, if they give you -1 on a useless rating system everyone is up in arms!

I think you will find most posters dont have a problem with a mod on there board giving you negetive karma, its mods from other boards doing it.
Example Bob has the power to give karma on the CS Boards, which is close to admin rights. I dont think bob has anyright to give karma on a board that isnt moderated by himself. Shinji, mills, and meglome have the right to do that and i doubt you will find many valid Complaints about them giving karma on a cs board.

If you plan to allow mods to give karma, make sure they can only do it on there board, they dont have the right anywhere else.

And finally id like to sugest you allow all users to view the karma history, after all thats what its there for, so you can get a idea of who is who, how can you get that idea if somebody has -10 because they had a figt with 2 mods yet they get on great with all the others ones.

/me apoligies for the big ol post

[This message has been edited by PHB (edited 12-07-2001).]

.ak · 12-07-2001 1:15am

I'm gonna keep this short'n'sweet... Because I don't have much time. So lets wrap it into a nutshell/question type thing...

Heh... What /exactly/ is the karma thing? Sure, if you get a few -karma someone might say, "Tsk tsk, he's been nawtee" etc., etc... and if you get too much, the admin0rs wont like you *coughceltcough* all that much. But I mean, other then that its just a little bit of text in the bottom of your posts, right? Big deal... Whoopdeydoo
In the words of that voice from Tribes 2...

Woo...
Hoo...

-Dark-Angel-

.ak · 12-07-2001 1:23am

Err... And to put /that/ into a nutshell... I'm for the Karma. The only complaint I've seen about it in total is it's useless... But if its useless there's no harm in keeping it.

-Dark-Angel-

vac · 12-07-2001 2:02am

If the karma is going to stay i think one thing should be changed, that we are told what we did to deserve the bad karma rating as theres no point otherwise, how can we learn from our mistakes?

eg: a noobie comes to the boards, he curse's lots in his post's, he use's symbols so the censor doesn't see. He gets bad karma over and over and has no idea why. Does he learn from his mistake? no cause he doesn't know what hes doing wrong..

My Veiw..

Bard · 12-07-2001 2:13am

Originally posted by irishassassin!:

2> Only moderator's of a board should hand out karma points for that boards.

Well I, for one, disagree 100% with this.

It's quite possible that a user could be insulting to a moderator on a board that he/she does not control. It's also possible that a user could be insulting or nasty to *anyone* on a board that a mod doesn't control and nobody "punishes" them for it.

I think the system that is there is FAIR, as long as the moderators USE it in a fair way... and from what I have seen they have been doing so thus far.

I agree with what Devore has said in his opening post on this thread... well said, Tom!

The post count went by the wayside - and, as it turns out, that was a good thing. The karma, as long as it is used well (and not abused) is a fine substitute. As was already said, it's hardly all that important a rating *anyway*!!!

Either dump karma (which is really pointless), or keep the status quo and stop the petty bickering...

my 2 cents, anyway

Bard

"I have a plan... and it's as hot... AS MY PANTS!!!" - Lord Flashheart.

Hobbes · 12-07-2001 4:35am

Originally posted by Repli:

2> Only moderator's of a board should hand out karma points for that boards.

I disagree. For one, only one mod can warn you based on a post (as someone told me

)

Sometimes some mods are on while others aren't. Also some mods seem to let some stuff slide, although personally I think it's because they don't/can't read all the threads (I pity the mods of the humour boards). I have given 1 or 2 minus one karma on boards which aren't on RP but they were more then justified and in the cases where the person fixed the problem I reset thier karma back.

I think the users should be allowed to see at least all comments about themselves (by clicking the number. Currently it's dodgy even for mods).

I tend to read the comments on people. I can tell you now there are very few people with only positive karma (that aren't 0) and those with high karma were just luckly to comment on the first karma setup thread and were tested on.

The negative comments certainly seem clearly written and in the case of quite a few -1 tend to prove the person is probably better not posting. So those people whining about thier -4 score probably have a lot lower score and are causing trouble.

The general rules I've tried to follow are...
1. Postive Karma tends to go to constructive posts in the context of the board (and unless it's RP it has to be pretty good).

2. I don't give negative karma for flames/attacks on myself. If you were keep it up I would eventually but at that stage other mods probably gave you a -1.

3. Unjustified attacks on other people get a -1 from me. Getting all hot and bothered because of a debate is one thing, to be offensive when the other poster hasn't done anything within that thread to justify it then I dish out a negative.

4. If the user does something which I give a negative post, (eg. posting a link which goes to goatsx or crashes a machine. You know who you are

) and then fixes thier post, I reset the karma. If the person sees reason to resolve the issue I see no reason why the point should no longer be against them.

5. I try not vote on anything where it would seem as favortism (hence Jag will never get a vote from me. Sorry Jag

)

6. Lastly I would vote against another mod if I felt thier karma point wasn't justified and some of the other mods already do this too. So the people who are upset about a point have been looked at by other mods. We aren't ignoring yous.

The only complaint I can see is that unlike flaming in a thread and the thread falling away, that karma point follows you.
I would like to see another voting system for the users on the moderators.

Unlike the karma system each user gets 1 +/- or 0 vote per mod. They can set those points at any time but they can never give more then 1 point +/-. oh and they can add a reason, but only 1 reason ever.

It wouldn't show up on the posts however Devore or Cloud could look at the scores and match seriously low scores of a mod and match them to the users who voted to see if it's related to them doing a good/bad job.

I wouldn't have a problem with people being able to see these scores then select a mod and see the reasons (anon or not though?)

(But it's more work for Cloud, so he will probably smack me now

)

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited 12-07-2001).]

Hobbes · 12-07-2001 4:44am

Originally posted by PHB:
*snip*

You missed Castor Troy from your trusted mods. He will give you a -1 when he wakes up.

Don't know where you think karma voting is the same as admin rights.

For starters lets take your Zero as an example.

While I haven't seen that many zero negative votes (none I think?) lets assume if he has it in for you and he can't vote on the CS board he just has to do a search on the Quake board for any post you ever made and give a minus point on that. So it won't stop mods limiting them to thier own forums. If anything it will make it more of a pain to give justified votes.

richindub2 · 12-07-2001 5:25am

Im for the karma thing overall but unless a user makes a direct flame (to a mod or non mod) or very insulting/disruptive post (ie porn) on a board then mods should stick to their own board giving out karma for spam, off topic posts, helpfull posts, etc.

*cough*
daves l33t site 0wns j00.

Lucy_la_morte · 12-07-2001 8:14am

I think, if a moderator has a good enough reason to give someone positive/negative karma, that it shouldn't matter what board they do it on. To be a moderator they have to follow some kind of rules anyway, and are obviously trusted by DeVore to be a moderator in the first place. The only moderators who shouldn't be able to give karma is that of community boards, especially clan ones. An example of mis-use of a community board moderator was MOD011 mysteriously changing karma on people for the Counter-Strike board.

It's just a tail, but I'm sort of attached to it.

Lucy la morte.

MindPhuck · 12-07-2001 8:35am

Urgh in a rush here,

Karma is good.

But one thing that should occur, if someone karma's someone, they in fairness should get to see what they have been clicked for, wether it be good or bad.

Muppets can see people like that MindPhuck chap with his +12 Karma points and wonder what he did to obtain them, and they can also look at that evil Devore guy and see what it is he did to get -10 Karma.

Not only would I find this interesting to see what other people did to get 12 clicked, I think I would be in tears laughing for most of it

Another thing, If there is a persistant Moderator who is picking on someone or has it out for them, we can all easily see this thrend by looking at the reasons why they gave negative Karma. Mods would have to think long n hard before they do this so they can be damn well sure they can justify it.

Im sure I thought lots..

Shiminay · 12-07-2001 8:36am

My thoughts...

It's a useful tool - I've only used it a few times.

I've given positive Karma to 2 of the most regular and quality contributors to my board. Fair play to the lads, they deserve it and the'll get more if they keep up the good work (and I know they will).
I'll warn someone before I give them bad karma, everyone deserves a warning (unless of course they've done something incredibly dumb, in which case they deserve it straight away).

Leave it there - it's a good idea that all mods can administer Karma - keeping it "per board" is a daft idea - it's a USER LEVEL thing as it affects a person's account - it's got nothing to do with specific boards - the whingy example above is Bob dishing out Negative Karma to someone for a post they made on the CS board - it was deserved, so what are you complaining about? Remove head from anal cavity and cop on.

I honestly don't see the problem - if you're bold then you deserve a slap. If you're good, you deserve a sweetie. It's a pity that Bubbles has parted from us - he'll be missed (burn the Goths)!

The idea that issuing of Karma should need to be authorised by another user is a good one - it removes the "trigger happiness" from some people who'll do things on a "knee-jerk" reaction (and we all do it).

DeV/Cloud/whoever - why not set up a community board for Moderators and Administrators to talk about it in private? We could decide what's best amongst ourselves and let everyone know what's happening.

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
So Bob Hoskins was about to roll a spliff when in walks Dana with her 3 foot Bong
[honey i] violated [the kids]
When the Beefy King arrives, I shall be paying homage with Puunack The Receiver in a haze of green curry.

logic1 · 12-07-2001 8:48am

Kepp the peace I say... I mean Karma keep the karma...

.logic.

LegacyUser · 12-07-2001 8:50am

But hold on a second giving a -1 Karma for no reason has been done by u Kharn member what u gave it to me and said ehh "because I can :P :P" on a post that I done nothing on and u still did not give me my Karma back like reasons like that make us ****ed of at mods

Gavin · 12-07-2001 8:59am

As regards moderators keeping to their own boards for karma, I agree with it. I haven't karmalised anyone on another board because I believe it is stepping on the toes of that moderator.

I believe that the moderators were chosen for each board because the admins felt that they had an affinity with the subject ? In that case moderators should stick to their own board.

Also.. Mods will be used to people on the boards, ie certain people might be loud and obnoxious on the board but at the same time, give out reliable information and be helpful. A bit of community policing as it were. A mod from another board won't be as familiar with the person.

just random thoughts thrown out.

Gav

moist · 12-07-2001 10:30am

I quite like the whole Karma idea, It is useful to give people an indication of what sort of person is posting.
I've been registered since April and reading since January-ish, and I still don't really know the people here.
I find karma quite handy.

In reality is does nothing, its just the views of a few trusted (and experienced?) people
on how you behave yourself on the boards.
Its not going to get you banned, its not going to turn your hair green, its not
going to prevent you from having your "wicked way" with that cute girl the far side of the office.
Make yourself a cuppa, sit back and relax, its not the end of the world.

Perhaps the mods fiddled a bit too much with their new toy, but I believe it
will settle down now and work the way it was intended.

The only thing I would have against the current system is that people can't
see the history, which I believe should be changed.
This would also help in a (hypothetical?) situation where a flamewar broke out
between a member and mod, and that mod gave them all of their 6 -karma points.

We could see that there were "issues" between these two people and perhaps disregard their -karma.
As it stands I don't know how Crash had a +8, although I can guess how Scrappy got -6

Anyway, Keep Karma, but let us see the history!

ConUladh · 12-07-2001 10:31am

I don't like the whole ranking thing

I can see the usefulness for the Mods if it's done properly, could it be changed so that only Mods can see it, I don't want to be looking at it (I'd rather it went altogether but if that's not to be.....)

If someone is within 1 or 2 of zero but not zero I would just consider them active in threads that Mods are interested in

If a person starts getting any higher on the positive side it wouldn't make me suddenly think that they're great posters and their post should be read intently it'd actually make me wary of what they are posting (some instinctive act of rebellion maybe)

I don't need Mods telling me what I should think of a person, I'm happy enough with my own judgement

When it comes to giving positive/negative karma everyone's going to have a diff opinion as to whether's it's deserved

Cloud · 12-07-2001 10:58am

We can change it so that only the moderator of the board you post to can change your karma.

I think all users can now view karma histories.

Also, I've reenabled WLs account. Second chances and all that.

J.
--

[This message has been edited by Cloud (edited 12-07-2001).]

kayos · 12-07-2001 12:14pm

ahhh kix you just gave the muppets an idea bold

Ok back on topic I like the system and I think it can work very well to let the new users know what ppl are like. But I do think that some form of rules for karma should be drawn up for the mods/admins and aggreed on by the users. This would let the users know what will result in karma and should also give a base for valid compliants against the karma give by the mod. Also if we could hack the karma hack to automaticly incude the topic the karma was give for in the history. I think preventing mods from giving karma on other forums bar their own aint the best idea but I'll go along with what ever the all powerfull Dev/Cloud et all decide.

kayos

When you get to hell tell them I sent you,
you'll get a group discount...

tribes.gameshop.ie

smoke.me.a.kipper · 12-07-2001 12:25pm

Karma is good (pld admins!!). but it needs a bit of sorting out imo.

you should be able to see your own Karma through the link in your posts.
A set of guidelines for the mods regarding karma should be laid out and agreed on (maybe through a poll??).
any complaints should be brought to the mod in question and/or and admin. NOT posted on the Admin board as this leads to further flaming from people not involved.

just my thoughts.

i invented '.com'

ConUladh · 12-07-2001 12:26pm

Would it be an idea to have a poll to see what people think?

Lot of people may have an opinion but haven't posted cause someone has already given a similar point of view, i.e. no point posting the same thing

And within that poll a distinction between Mods and the rest of us (cause there is a lot of Mods and that could influence the percentages - as Mods don't have karma they only give it)

It'll give the Admins an idea of what people really think (not just the more outspoken amongst us), if most people are happy then all well and good, if it goes the other way maybe some reconsideration??

MiCr0 · 12-07-2001 12:38pm

tbh i reckon all mods should be able to karmise on any board. after all its a comment on the person rather than just on the single post.
After all the mods are ppl who are choisen, to a certain extent, to keep the peace.

WhiteWashMan · 12-07-2001 12:54pm

Originally posted by MiCr0:
tbh i reckon all mods should be able to karmise on any board. after all its a comment on the person rather than just on the single post.
After all the mods are ppl who are choisen, to a certain extent, to keep the peace.

ha! i keep the peace so well on the work board.
i just delete any new topics

and i should be able to give karma points to whomever i wish on whatever board i wish for whatever reason i , er, ok, for justified reasons. but i havent given out any at all so, i guess i could be considered as even headed i nthe matter.
anyway, people always moan and complain.
i mean seriously, its a little marking on a web site. what does it really matter?
im sure id have minus 20 at this stage, but it wouldnt bother me, as my job is to moderate a board and i do so. what i do on any other boards is different, at that stage im a user. however, hobbes is right, theres no point in limiting karma distribution to just your own board. besides it would make people think a bit more, as one mod might not see some shinanigans, but you know someone will....
we see everything.....

'oranges and lemons rang the bells of st clemons....'

SHADOW · 12-07-2001 1:01pm

Originally posted by Cloud:
I think all users can now view karma histories.

Also, I've reenabled WLs account. Second chances and all that.

Plyd Cloud

If the bottom falls out of your world, drink Andrews and the world will fall out of your bottom!!
games?

SHADOW · 12-07-2001 1:25pm

Just out of interest does my Karma history make ANY mathematical sense to anybody else?

Particularly that I am now on 0 points?

If the bottom falls out of your world, drink Andrews and the world will fall out of your bottom!!
games?

[This message has been edited by SHADOW (edited 12-07-2001).]

LegacyUser · 12-07-2001 1:34pm

Shadow check ur mail u probley got a warnin of one of the trigger happy mods

*coughoccycough*

entropi · 12-07-2001 1:35pm

I'm happy with the karma system, it dosen't bother me because this is only a message board, not a real life job. If you get a negative karma point, so what. It's not like a £45 pay cut or anything, just take it and be happy. Or you can try to be more patient with some of the posters who say stuff you don't like. Let the admins or mods sort it out, not you getting a negative point for nothing.take this for example......

Originally posted by MiCr0:
tbh i reckon all mods should be able to karmise on any board. after all its a comment on the person rather than just on the single post.
After all the mods are ppl who are chosen, to a certain extent, to keep the peace.

I think he's right in saying this, but to an extent. If someone has a grudge against a poster, they might be mates with a mod or admin,and say "he's spamming my posts,do something about it" this is loser talk. Please try to sort this topic out soon.

"that island has freedom written all over it, sir, that's cuba"

Kix · 12-07-2001 2:33pm

Originally posted by kayos:
ahhh kix you just gave the muppets an idea bold

Sorry K, but you know how these little b'stards minds work - they don't need me to tell them. Anyhow - I hid it at the bottom of a long post. Their ADD will kick in before they get to it.

...automaticly incude the topic the karma was give for in the history.

Yup. I was going to mention this. I looked at my karma history after I posted above and I'm still no wiser as to why I'm +1. I hope this is something that Cloud can hack in. (*tisk* of course he can, he's Cloud

)

K

EDIT: I notice that you can now see anyone else's Karma history. I approve.

[This message has been edited by Kix (edited 12-07-2001).]

tarzan · 12-07-2001 3:27pm

In reply to the following statment by hobbes in reference to admins only being allowed to hand out karma in their own topic, if the admin has to give a link to a thread where the person was abusive or whatever, or has to have another admin agree that this person need some negative karma, then this isnt likely to be a problem.

Lets face it if a moderator wants to give a -1/+1 all they have to do is search for the users name within thier own forum. This means those moderators with heavy traffic have more power.

Trojan · 12-07-2001 3:50pm

I agree 100% w/ kix.

Afaics, I just post to the wrong boards so I'll never get any positive karma points. Most of my posts are signal, so I wont get much negative karma.

Therefore, so long as I stay above -9 I don't really give a shít about the karma system.

If you want to use it (and people like me to care), it must be used consistantly, otherwise it's not worth the electrons it's printed on.

Al.

[This message has been edited by Trojan (edited 12-07-2001).]

PHB · 12-07-2001 6:19pm

Originally posted by Hobbes:

Lets face it if a moderator wants to give a -1/+1 all they have to do is search for the users name within thier own forum. This means those moderators with heavy traffic have more power.

If a mod did that, then we could take it to a admin since he would have no valid reason to give karma.

DeVore · 12-07-2001 6:27pm

the admins are reading all these posts and we are discussing it in email too.

between all of us we should be able to please most people with the system but it will take time and currently we are all much busy then usual.

Bear with us and for the moment I'm going to ask the mods to ease back on the negative karma esp outside their boards. Just to give us time to think.

DeV.

ps: this was a community service broadcast, please return to your discussion!

Hobbes · 12-07-2001 6:50pm

Originally posted by PHB:
If a mod did that, then we could take it to a admin since he would have no valid reason to give karma.

True but the post the karma point was put on isn't recorded.

Even if it was, all the mod has to do is go back through thier own forum, find a post by you and blank it and put in a warning like "Don't post porn again" and then give you a -1 karma.

Your not notifed of the post afaik, only that there is a negative karma point against you. (I could be wrong).

amp · 12-07-2001 7:18pm

hmmm I did favour the karma system because it at least gave extreme muppets a chance to reform before getting 12-clicked.

But after hearing some of the comments about the system, it made me think about it in more depth.

With karma, posters now have a permanent record. And that record is adjusted by moderators. Intially that seems like nothing but maybe I've been a mod too long.

I imagine if I wasn't a moderator I probably wouldn't like the system at all. In fact I might start frothing at the mouth about it.

When karma first came out I wondered why moderators were excluded from the system. Of course if we are the ones that maintain karma then it would be impossible for us to have our own karma within the same system. It wouldn't work. Shame really because I still think moderators should be accountable for their actions.

In short, even though the boards is not (and probably could not be) a democracy I think on this issue a vote should be taken. At least then if karma did get voted in, there would be less opposition for it.

Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
"Boxes for show, Baskets for a pro" - [FCA]SyxPak

Hobbes · 12-07-2001 8:11pm

Like I mentioned eariler there should be an option to vote on each admin (as per my spec).

Bob the Unlucky Octopus · 12-07-2001 8:50pm

I'm fairly new to the boards.ie moderating scene- but in a nutshell:

1) Karma is basically a good idea: You might ask yourself- why wouldn't I say this- after all, I'm one of the "evil oppressive regime" that dishes the stuff out...but having been made a moderator only recently, I can appreciate the way karma made me think before posting. At the basic level, it's a fantastic concept- it may not be perfect, but it gets the job done.

2) A few improvements/tweaks: Here are a few ideas.

a) Allow all users to view their own Karma history. With e-mail notification this might seem pointless- but I propose that (if possible) the Karma history section has links back to the thread/post that the mod gave you Karma for. This makes the system a LOT more transparent. Currently, the only problems are the vagaries of what the mod gave you karma for.

b) Create a community forum for admins&mods to discuss potential troublemakers...and a link that allows e-mail to be sent from an anonymous boards.ie e-mail client to one or more administrators in an anonymous fashion- by any user.

The "Admin" board is rarely used for complaints, except for whin*** and unjustified ones(ohhhh don't I know it). This is probably because ppl would like anonymity when complaining about a personal problem with a mod. If such an unfortunate situation were to arise, then ppl could simply click on the e-mail link, post a list of URL histories to allow the admins to see if a moderator is straying from the beaten path or not. That option is available in the status quo, but few use it- an anonymous e-mail account posting might appeal more...I don't honestly know.

c) Last, but certainly not least- admins should be able to give moderators some form of mini-karma- in an ideal world, Joe Schmoe would complan about Admin X to DeV/cloud/regi...one of the above would award bad mini-karma to the mods- this minikarma would only be accessed by other mods through a security layer. This allows the admins to keep a degree of control over moderators without having to take away their status as moderators. I think that overall, this will be a positive thing.

People might complain more about mods, even flood DeVore's already overcrowded e-mail Inbox- but after sifting through a little chaff, I have no doubt that a few legitimate complaints might be found, and quietly dealt with. The private community forum would also allow mods to discuss and debate each others' means of keeping control in a discussion. None of us are perfect- but we do try and use a bit of common sense when mod-ing.

As I've told many ppl before- if anyone has a problem with the way I mod, my e-mail address is in my profile, I'd be more than happy to discuss things with anyone dissatisfied.

I'm sure you'll find most of the mods are as reasonable- the ones that aren't probably just don't have the time.

Thank you all for your patience if you made it this far

(Edited for UBB tags)

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

[This message has been edited by Bob the Unlucky Octopus (edited 12-07-2001).]

richindub2 · 12-07-2001 9:06pm

Karma Modification History for richindub2
Issuer Amount Reason
Evil Phil +1 For being helpful on the webgames board

Thats my whole karma history yet my karma is 0? Fuzzy maths? I know its slightly OT but cant think of anywhere else to put it

*cough*
daves l33t site 0wns j00.

SHADOW · 12-07-2001 9:30pm

Originally posted by richindub2:
Karma Modification History for richindub2
Issuer Amount Reason
Evil Phil +1 For being helpful on the webgames board

Thats my whole karma history yet my karma is 0? Fuzzy maths? I know its slightly OT but cant think of anywhere else to put it

Yeah thats the same thing I was asking about earlier:
Here is my one....the maths are in a word Fvcked!!

Kharn +1 The best Pants Bandit I know

Evil Phil -1 Nice use of webgames. Shows the boards potential.
Evil Phil +1 For good use of the webgames board

weird.

If the bottom falls out of your world, drink Andrews and the world will fall out of your bottom!!
games?

Evil Phil · 12-07-2001 9:54pm

I don't think karma get's refreshed they way the post count did. Possible tweak, perhaps?

Everybody sing:

Karma Karma Karma Kameleon
It comes and goes
It comes and go-oes!

C B · 12-07-2001 11:02pm

Each mod should have control of their own board. I post to the humanities board and I feel Castor does a good job in overseeing it. I don't want other mods having control of what I say their it would severely undermine the character of the board.
When I post to other boards (After hours, Humour etc.) I know what the mods there allow and those boards consequently have there own character.

I would suggest that one reason some mods want to maintain the right to interfere in other boards is because nobody posts on their board.

An bhfuil se sin fior? (not aimed at any mod in particular

Edit

Thanks cloud I was typing while you were posting

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 12-07-2001).]

Hobbes · 12-07-2001 11:07pm

Originally posted by Cloud:
We can change it so that only the moderator of the board you post to can change your karma.

J.
--

Cloud all that's going to do is make it a pain to give karma points.

Lets face it if a moderator wants to give a -1/+1 all they have to do is search for the users name within thier own forum. This means those moderators with heavy traffic have more power.

Unless you put some sort of link to post within the comments it's not going to work and is more unfair then the current system.

For example. One of the users came on here complaining they got a -1 unfairly. I checked the thread and I believe they did so I gave them a +1 on the thread they complained to cancel out the moderators comment.

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited 12-07-2001).]

PHB · 12-07-2001 11:11pm

I dont see the point in a karma everyone cant see.
If there is a serious problem with a user then it should be a swift email warning.
And if you cant trust the mods to act senibly then they shouldnt be mods. ID rather have a mod on lets say a Chess Board that we know and like and just plays chess for fun than having a world champion chess player.

GreenHell · 12-07-2001 11:13pm

Just a taught but shouldn't there be a way for ordinary posters doing something about "bad" mods?

LegacyUser · 12-07-2001 11:13pm

Well really I think if we could see who has givin us the Karma it would be good but the only way that this is causin such a problem as a wise old man told me " If the mods copped on who'd care" and I see his point the only reason this is gettin out of hand is from trigger happy mods

Shiminay · 12-07-2001 11:24pm

Crash - you had all this positive Karma cause you wrecked people's heads to get it and didn't do anything that I can see to deserve it. So, on those grounds, it was obviously all for a laugh. So, I took one away from you for the laugh in keeping with the spirit of your Karma adventures!

Chill man - you've probably still got more than anyone else...

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
So Bob Hoskins was about to roll a spliff when in walks Dana with her 3 foot Bong
[honey i] violated [the kids]
When the Beefy King arrives, I shall be paying homage with Puunack The Receiver in a haze of green curry.

LegacyUser · 12-07-2001 11:28pm

On all grounds no people where jumpin on the bandwagon so it looked like I recked everyones head into gettin it but still it was for no reason to lose a Karma

PHB · 12-07-2001 11:30pm

One reason why Mods should keep to their own boards

From DBCs Karma Rating
Shinji +1 Being able to take a joke, a rare quality in boards users it seems
Bob the Unlucky Octopus -1 Acting the Baka on CS boards

Totally contradicting views on posts on the cs boards.
The CS Mods appear ok with it, occy didnt.
Its not a different mods place to sort out a situation on the other boards. If a mod isnt taking his moderatorship seriously then he shouldnt be a mod.

Karma.

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