Would you welcome Pope Benedict XV1 to Ireland?

axtradub12

Bertie Ahern said Pope Benedict XV1 would be most welcome to Ireland sooner than later. Do you agree?

Nightwish

he can come all he wants, however the masses wont be there to greet him, like they would have done for the other pope if he were still alive, and even then, they wouldnt have matched anything like the crowds in '79.

personally I'd couldnt care less...I dont like the guy

ando

yea sure i've no problem with him visiting, why would i

grimloch

Wouldn't mind him making a visit but there's not a chance I'd bother my arse to go and see him.

drdre

yeah let him come to dublin

Pigman II

axtradub12 wrote:

Bertie Ahern said Pope Benedict XV1 would be most welcome to Ireland

Bertie himself isn't welcome in Ireland so what would he know?

rancheros

let him come, give us something to do @ the weekend, and it might encourage the goverment to get of there asses and do something about the state of the country

Geiger

I don't mind where he goes though I wouldn't go to see him.

OFDM

axtradub12 wrote:

Bertie Ahern said Pope Benedict XV1 would be most welcome to Ireland sooner than later. Do you agree?

It's XVI not XV1 - hate it when people do that.

axtradub12

OFDM wrote:

It's XVI not XV1 - hate it when people do that.

Thanks Love

Adam

no.

Tiffany

I'd welcome him with open arms.

Ray777

With the vast majority of people in this country being Catholic (lapsed or not), I'm sure that the Pope would be welcomed into this country. Of course, there are a few very ignorant people, who have no tolerance for religious beliefs, who wouldn't welcome him. It's not really trendy to say anything positive about Catholicism nowadays...

Sparky

id go if i was 65

StupidLikeAFox

Theres plenty of worse people that have come/are coming/will come so whats the big deal? Céad míle fáilte and all that jazz

rsynnott

I'd protest, to be honest. He's a mad old bigot with a history of spreading hatred.

beardedchicken

As yer man said, I'd welcome him, but only for the opportunity that it would present to protest against his homophopia and misogyny and his continued undermining of attempts to halt the spread of AIDS in the majority world.

rsynnott

Do you really think he'd take any notice?

And ColHol, what worse people have come recently? Very few. Bush, possibly.

Kare Bear

I'd welcome him why the hell not.:)

Dagnir Glaurung

I wouldn't welcome him. On the other hand, I wouldn't not welcome him.

SUMMARY: I wouldn't actually give a bugger.

murphaph

Would we get the day off work?

Ray777

Kare Bear wrote:

I'd welcome him why the hell not.:)

Why not? Because it's far more trendy to ignorantly blame him for everything from AIDS to homophobia.

rsynnott

Ray777 wrote:

Why not? Because it's far more trendy to ignorantly blame him for everything from AIDS to homophobia.

The man advocates hatred against homosexuals and equates them with murderers. His official line to the developing world is STILL that condoms offer no protection against HIV. Sadly, many people respect him enough that they believe him. His predecesor was trying to say the same thing in Italy, for goodness sakes, before the health department there got it stopped. No, this isn't trendy, it's opposition to a man who doesn't care how many die to boost his power base. If he'd compromise and tell the truth about the level of protection afforded by condoms against HIV, he'd save thousands in Africa and South America... but he'd upset his foaming-at-the-mouth supporters in Europe.

Ray777

The man advocates hatred against homosexuals and equates them with murderers.

He doesn't advocate hatred against homosexuals. What do you expect him to do - abandon the teachings of the Catholic Church because they don't fit in with modern-day trends and selective 'liberalism'?

His official line to the developing world is STILL that condoms offer no protection against HIV.

His official line is that condoms don't offer the same protection as 'abstainence'. This trend of blaming the Catholic Church for the AIDS problem in Africa only serves to shield the real culprits (Governments) from blame.

rsynnott

Ray777 wrote:

He doesn't advocate hatred against homosexuals. What do you expect him to do - abandon the teachings of the Catholic Church because they don't fit in with modern-day trends and selective 'liberalism'?

Unless this balance is evened by removing this evil from your country and bringing in just laws to prevent the spread of homosexuality, you cannot be saved; your country cannot be saved.

Just laws to "prevent the spread of homosexuality"? Doesn't sound good.

I'd also ask him not to equate gay people with murderers, tbh. I'd also like to see him make a few less offensive, bigoted comments about Turkey's application to Europe. As a secular state with a policy of equality and tolerance, I don't think we want this bigot visiting.

Ray777 wrote:

His official line is that condoms don't offer the same protection as 'abstainence'. This trend of blaming the Catholic Church for the AIDS problem in Africa only serves to shield the real culprits (Governments) from blame.

Presented in a such a fashion as to imply that they provide little or no protection, and as such there is no point in using them, while in fact they provide quite a high level of protection.

Winters

I'd give him about as good a welcome as George Bush.

rsynnott

Winters wrote:

I'd give him about as good a welcome as George Bush.

Oh, that's a little harsh; Benedict is at least able to speak English...

Sarky

I'd only welcome him if he brought along some of that oldskool righteous judgement they keep on about in Revelations.

Ray777

I'd also ask him not to equate gay people with murderers, tbh.

The Catholic Church preaches that homosexuality (NOT homosexuals, themselves) is an 'intrinsic moral evil'. I have never even once heard Pope Benedict claiming that homosexuals are evil. Have you? And again, I'll ask you, do you honestly expect the Catholic Church to throw their beliefs out the window, just because they differ the beliefs of modern pseudo-liberals.

As a secular state with a policy of equality and tolerance, I don't think we want this bigot visiting.

I don't think you speak for the majority of people in this country. It's funny how your ethos of 'tolerance' doesn't extend towards tolerance of the religious beliefs of others.

Presented in a such a fashion as to imply that they provide little or no protection, and as such there is no point in using them, while in fact they provide quite a high level of protection.

Does he tell people, "ok, so you have AIDS. Don't worry about it - just sleep with as many people as you like, without protection"? Even if the Catholic Church was to change its views on contraception (again, throwing out long-held beliefs, in response to modern demands), a huge amount of AIDS sufferers in Africa wouldn't wear condoms anyway. We're talking about a continent, with such poor levels of education on the subject of AIDS, that people seriously believe that 'sleeping with a virgin' will cure the disease. Again, blaming the Catholic Church may be fashionable, but it's completely missing the point.

Winters

I think someone loves their religion. Take it to the religion forums...

Ray777

Winters wrote:

I think someone loves their religion. Take it to the religion forums...

Your arrogant presumptiousness is incorrect. I'm not religious. I just have tolerance for the religious beliefs of others and I think that many of the comments on this thread are bigoted

rsynnott

Ray777 wrote:

The Catholic Church preaches that homosexuality (NOT homosexuals, themselves) is an 'intrinsic moral evil'. I have never even once heard Pope Benedict claiming that homosexuals are evil. Have you? And again, I'll ask you, do you honestly expect the Catholic Church to throw their beliefs out the window, just because they differ the beliefs of modern pseudo-liberals.

what was that about laws to stop the "spread of homosexuality", then? I don't expect the catholic church to abandon their views, I simply expect them to stop trying to impose them on populations, and stop using them as a platform to adovcate hatred.

Ray777 wrote:

I don't think you speak for the majority of people in this country. It's funny how your ethos of 'tolerance' doesn't extend towards tolerance of the religious beliefs of others.

You can believe what you like. When you start using it to cause harm to others, that's a problem.

Ray777 wrote:

Does he tell people, "ok, so you have AIDS. Don't worry about it - just sleep with as many people as you like, without protection"? Even if the Catholic Church was to change its views on contraception (again, throwing out long-held beliefs, in response to modern demands), a huge amount of AIDS sufferers in Africa wouldn't wear condoms anyway. We're talking about a continent, with such poor levels of education on the subject of AIDS, that people seriously believe that 'sleeping with a virgin' will cure the disease. Again, blaming the Catholic Church may be fashionable, but it's completely missing the point.

No, he implies that condoms aren't very effective. In the absense of authoritive information (and people are often inclined to believe the church over such sources anyway), people decide there's no point using what is an expensive luxury over there. Bear in mind that most people who spread HIV don't know that they have the disease at the time.

Ray777

what was that about laws to stop the "spread of homosexuality", then? I don't expect the catholic church to abandon their views, I simply expect them to stop trying to impose them on populations, and stop using them as a platform to adovcate hatred.

But the Catholic Church doesn't advocate hatred against homosexuals. I think that talk about "stopping the spread of homosexuality" was more about gay marriage laws, etc, than making homosexuality itself illegal.

No, he implies that condoms aren't very effective. In the absense of authoritive information (and people are often inclined to believe the church over such sources anyway), people decide there's no point using what is an expensive luxury over there. Bear in mind that most people who spread HIV don't know that they have the disease at the time.

The Catholic Church simply tells people not to sleep with anyone to whom they're not married. In fairness, if everyone did that (whether we agree with that philosophy or not), coupled with improved education and healthcare, there wouldn't be an AIDS problem. Simplistic idea of course, but it's also simplistic to suggest that the Catholic Church's stance on contraception is the cause of the AIDS epidemic. If Catholics listened to the church's teachings in full, rather than just (selectively) the bit about condoms, the Pope's stance would be thoroughly vindicated.

And it's funny, how people always neglect to mention the amount of lives saved in Africa by Catholic charities. Catholicism is a modern-day punchbag for those who claim to be liberal, though

rsynnott

Ray777 wrote:

But the Catholic Church doesn't advocate hatred against homosexuals. I think that talk about "stopping the spread of homosexuality" was more about gay marriage laws, etc, than making homosexuality itself illegal.

Really? That's not at all clear from the quote and context, tbh. Looks more like he's looking for, if not banning, at least no marriage, civil union or equality laws. What business is it of his? And the "spread of homosexuality" is nonsense; homosexuality does not spread. (Unless he's suggesting a eugenics programme).

Ray777 wrote:

The Catholic Church simply tells people not to sleep with anyone to whom they're not married. In fairness, if everyone did that (whether we agree with that philosophy or not), coupled with improved education and healthcare, there wouldn't be an AIDS problem. Simplistic idea of course, but it's also simplistic to suggest that the Catholic Church's stance on contraception is the cause of the AIDS epidemic. If Catholics listened to the church's teachings in full, rather than just (selectively) the bit about condoms, the Pope's stance would be thoroughly vindicated.

Realistically, though, people do sleep with people who they're not married to; Benedict knows this very well, and nothing he says is going to stop it. With that in mind, the most ethical path is surely to be completely honest about condoms, or else to refrain from mentioning them at all?

Ray777 wrote:

And it's funny, how people always neglect to mention the amount of lives saved in Africa by Catholic charities. Catholicism is a modern-day punchbag for those who claim to be liberal, though

Not a valid argument for allowing people to die through effective mis-information, I'm afraid.

Winters

Ray777 wrote:

Your arrogant presumptiousness is incorrect. I'm not religious. I just have tolerance for the religious beliefs of others and I think that many of the comments on this thread are bigoted

Why did you edit your post and add in "Your arrogant presumptiousness is incorrect". Dont be such a prick.

Trotter

rsynnott wrote:

Do you really think he'd take any notice?

And ColHol, what worse people have come recently? Very few. Bush, possibly.

Yeah and when Bush came the government mobilised Irish TANKS to make sure he was protected from seeing any Irish protesters.

I think the Pope coming would give an opportunity for those that are very devoted catholics to say hi to the boss, and if it makes someone happy.. why not.

But.. I'd turn into a protester fairly quick if the government pull a stunt like they did with Bush and stop people publicly disagreeing with him.

I mean in fairness.... If I walked past one of those tanks they sent out.. was some young tank gunner from Dublin gonna blow me away with a 90mm shell? No way. It was a blatant display from Bertie that when he wants us to shut up and be quiet, he goes down the intimidation route.

RVN10

Most definatley

Ray777

Realistically, though, people do sleep with people who they're not married to; Benedict knows this very well, and nothing he says is going to stop it.

If people don't listen to him on the 'sleeping with people who they're not married to' score, what makes you think they're listening to him about contraception? We're talking about a continent, which has absolutely no education on the subject of safe sex.

winters wrote:

Why did you edit your post and add in "Your arrogant presumptiousness is incorrect". Dont be such a prick

At no point in any of my posts, did I say that I was religious. You just presumed that I was. Telling me (specifically) to 'take it to the religion forums', because you disagree with my opinion was arrogant. Simple enough explanation. Maybe I should have just insulted you instead, but I've always thought that calling people names, whilst hiding behind a computer screen was a bit sad and pathetic

rsynnott

Ray777 wrote:

If people don't listen to him on the 'sleeping with people who they're not married to' score, what makes you think they're listening to him about contraception? We're talking about a continent, which has absolutely no education on the subject of safe sex.

Because the not sleeping with people you're not married to is clearly dogma; the contraception thing is presented in the form of information. And attempts to educate people in Africa about safe sex have often met hostility on religious grounds.

Flukey

As I posted in another thread hereabouts, people may not follow it, but the best way to prevent the spread of AIDS is not to sleep around. No one can dispute that. So no matter how unlikely it is that people will follow that, the Pope should not be condemend for advocating it. People who want to halt the spread of AIDS condemn him for not supporting one particular method of doing so, but also condemn him for supporting the best method of doing so. They can't have it both ways.

Flukey

As to him getting a welcome here, it certainly won't be as big as last time, as Ireland has changed a lot, but he would still get a very big welcome.

axtradub12

Flukey wrote:

As I posted in another thread hereabouts, people may not follow it, but the best way to prevent the spread of AIDS is not to sleep around. No one can dispute that. So no matter how unlikely it is that people will follow that, the Pope should not be condemend for advocating it. People who want to halt the spread of AIDS condemn him for not supporting one particular method of doing so, but also condemn him for supporting the best method of doing so. They can't have it both ways.

Are we following the Yanks ''Sleep around or sleeping with? I never slept with my bird.I just did it

Right_Side

beardedchicken wrote:

As yer man said, I'd welcome him, but only for the opportunity that it would present to protest against his homophopia and misogyny and his continued undermining of attempts to halt the spread of AIDS in the majority world.

Here here. He has blood on his hands.

axtradub12

Flukey wrote:

As to him getting a welcome here, it certainly won't be as big as last time, as Ireland has changed a lot, but he would still get a very big welcome.

I'd welcome Him as a leader of 1.2billion Roman Catholics and a European Statesman. The Vatican is a political independent state,with its own flag and their own embassies worldwide.

Simi

If by welcome you mean protest, then yes. Seriously, the pope must be held accountable for the spread of aids. The catholic church's discouragement of the use of condoms has cost millions of people their lives. And he's an evil homophobic nazi on top of that.

axtradub12

Simi wrote:

If by welcome you mean protest, then yes. Seriously, the pope must be held accountable for the spread of aids. The catholic church's discouragement of the use of condoms has cost millions of people their lives. And he's and evil homophobic nazi on top of that.

The Panzer Pope

Simi

Lol indeed.

Ray777

Simi wrote:

If by welcome you mean protest, then yes. Seriously, the pope must be held accountable for the spread of aids. The catholic church's discouragement of the use of condoms has cost millions of people their lives. And he's an evil homophobic nazi on top of that.

What an ignorant post :rolleyes:

What orifice did you pull your 'millions of people' statistic from?

And 'An evil, homophobic nazi'? The Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality doesn't stem from 'homophobia'. And the Pope is not and never has been a 'Nazi'.

Badly Drunk Boy

I'm no Church lover, but I agree with Ray777. Personally I wouldn't go to see the new Pope if he came here but I'd have nothing against it if he did. People are saying stuff about Benedict XVI when they only know the bare minimum about the man. That's just ignorance...

The main part that I'd disagree with Ray777 is that the Church's teachings about homosexuality is that they are against the act rather than the urge. And these teachings come from the Old Testament, not just made up by the Church as an afterthought.

Again I'll say, I'm an atheist but I have respect for people's views, rather than vilifying any sort of contrary non-liberal ideas that might have appeared in the latest edition of the Sunday World.

axtradub12

Badly Drunk Boy wrote:

I'm no Church lover, but I agree with Ray777. Personally I wouldn't go to see the new Pope if he came here but I'd have nothing against it if he did. People are saying stuff about Benedict XVI when they only know the bare minimum about the man. That's just ignorance...

The main part that I'd disagree with Ray777 is that the Church's teachings about homosexuality is that they are against the act rather than the urge. And these teachings come from the Old Testament, not just made up by the Church as an afterthought.

Again I'll say, I'm an atheist but I have respect for people's views, rather than vilifying any sort of contrary non-liberal ideas that might have appeared in the latest edition of the Sunday World.

WOW. Good one

Simi

Ray777 wrote:

What an ignorant post :rolleyes:

What orifice did you pull your 'millions of people' statistic from?

And 'An evil, homophobic nazi'? The Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality doesn't stem from 'homophobia'. And the Pope is not and never has been a 'Nazi'.

Yes millions have people have died from aids :eek: . One of the major contributing factors is the discouragement of the use of condems by church teachings in Africa. And yes it is unfair to put all the blame on the pope but you have to acknowlege that his church's teachings are ignorant and careless. And yes the pope was a member of the Hitler youth and later served, allegedly, unwillingly in the German Army. And I'm well aware that the church's stance on homosexuality doesn't stem from homphobia smarty pants.