Help! Zen Micro or iPod?

Nala

Hi everyone,
Well I'm trying to choose between an iPod Mini (6gb) and a Zen Micro. I need a durable player with long battery life. One of the things I'm concerned about is that the iTunes software isn't meant to be very good, also that the Zen Micro breaks/stops working easily. Can anyone tell me which is better?

muckwarrior

Well if battery life is important I'd go with the Zen. iPods in general have a very bad reputation regarding battery life.

Goldstein

If I may offer some advise, if you decide to go down the iPod road. Now is not a good time to buy an iPod mini. The normal iPods and iPod photos have now been merged into one product with all the features of the iPod photos. I think they'll be bringing the minis in line with the new iPod before long.

Or alternatively, the new 20Gig iPods are €317. Comparing it to the mini, for the extra €100 it has 5 times the storage, colour screen (larger aswell), includes the AC adapter and you can view your photos on it (JPG, GIF, BMP, TIFF, PNG).

They come with a warranty so I wouldn't let past battery stories worry you. The minis battery life is 18 hours, the iPods is 15. (Assuming 128kbps...yada yada). Real world usage at a decent bitrate will obviously be less.

On the iTunes matter:
I nearly didn't get mine because I'd heard people complaining about iTunes. Oddly enough, I'd now count it among the primary reasons for getting an iPod. The system is just so efficient - You connect your iPod, and it automatically syncs all your music, playlists, photos and podcasts to the iPod, click eject and that's it. No messing around in directories, copying, pasting or any of that lark. And as for iTunes itself, even if I didn't have an iPod I'd still be using iTunes as my music player, clean minimalistic design, very intuitive and easy to use, bigger overhead but that doesn't bother me. They've just realised version 4.9 which I haven't had a chance to use in depth yet, but they've added some nice features such as podcast listings.

rsynnott

muckwarrior wrote:

Well if battery life is important I'd go with the Zen. iPods in general have a very bad reputation regarding battery life.

This has actually changed, as of the iPod mini upgrade. It's battery life was allegedly doubled, and that actually seems quite accurate.

neither,
long battery life = iriver h10
sturdy build = iriver h10
easy to use = iriver h10
compatability with Computer = iriver h10

Nala

Deleted User wrote:

neither,
long battery life = iriver h10
sturdy build = iriver h10
easy to use = iriver h10
compatability with Computer = iriver h10

But iPod's and Zen Micro's are prettier!

*shallow girlieness aside*

One thing I'm worried about is memory. I have about 60 CD's worth of music I'd like to put on the MP3 player. Because I intend on having this MP3 player at least a few years, I'd like for it to be able to store about 120 CD's worth of MP3's at decent quality. At the moment, all I have is a 128mb flash player, and in order to fit a decent number of songs on it, all my music is 64kb WMA. Unfortunately, although WMA halves the space needed for a song, it uses up the battery about twice as fast. So I need a player that can store a load of MP3's comfortably.

I see the iRiver H30 is abailable as a 20gb in America now-I'm going over in a few weeks, if I was to buy one there would I be able to return it to iRiver if it broke? Obviously I couldnt bring it back to the shop.

if you buy it in America i would make sure to get an extended warrantee on it. ALL players are tempermental and don't usually recover from a drop when on. I suffered this myself, my first mp3 player was bought in America and 3 and a half months later it fell from a height of 3 feet when it was on and broke. I ended up having to pay 180 to get it fixed (still cheaper overall then it was here). If you don't get a warrantee then you're only covered for the first 3 months. And if they break you return them to the producer not the shop. The producer is in charge of warrantees.

Nala

I've dropped my flash player loads of times but flash players don't have moving internal parts so I guess there's less chance of things moving around when the player is dropped.

That's another thing, I know the iPod Mini is meant to be jog-proof but what about the Zen Micro and the iRiver (either the H10 5gb or the H340 20gb)- are they job-proof? Just I likes my treadmill!

masteroftherealm

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Ipod mini is Flash, so that's fine. Same can't be said of the Zen or Irivers. Just so long as you don't run like paula radcliff, and don't strap it to your head you should be fine. I use my (brick sized) Zen Xtra at the Gym and just clip it to the treadmill or bike.

Creamy Goodness

all hard drive players are not 100% jog proof. they may have some sort of gimick like sony's g shock or whatever.

i know the ipod has a flash memory inside onto which the hard drive puts the song on it and hence gives the impression of shock proof.

only flash players are 100% guaranteed shock proof

cormie

masterofthereal wrote:

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iRiver and Cowan iAudio are you best bets, I wouldn't bother with a mini, for an extra small % of the price you get about 500% or so more storage.

cormie

Deleted User wrote:

Ipod mini.

Are you not thinking of the iPod shuffle? Don't go for an ipod shuffle by the way, they don't even have a screen!!

wasn't reccommending any Ipods at all! Just saying that the mini is "jog proof".

Nala

No I wouldn't go near an iPod shuffle.

Shame there's no black-or-white way of knowing which MP3 player to get.
Decisions decisions!

The iPod Mini's flash memory is appealing to me because I'm forever dropping things. My phone is covered in scratches from me dropping it. Plus the iPod mini's covering is aluminium as opposed to the Zen Micro's plastic, isn't it? Which means it's more scratch-resistant I hope. (I don't like the look of those iSkin things).

Creamy Goodness

Deleted User wrote:

wasn't reccommending any Ipods at all! Just saying that the mini is "jog proof".

is it, doesn't it essentially have a hard drive in it though?

yep, it'll break if it's dropped, but t can take a bit of shaking.

NotMe

Deleted User wrote:

neither,
long battery life = iriver h10
sturdy build = iriver h10
easy to use = iriver h10
compatability with Computer = iriver h10

crap firmware = iRiver h10

rsynnott

Nala wrote:

No I wouldn't go near an iPod shuffle.

Shame there's no black-or-white way of knowing which MP3 player to get.
Decisions decisions!

The iPod Mini's flash memory is appealing to me because I'm forever dropping things.

That's nice, except it doesn't have flash memory, it has a small magnetic hard disk.

NotMe

NotMe wrote:

crap firmware = iRiver h10

does misticriver not have a good solution?

Nala

rsynnott wrote:

That's nice, except it doesn't have flash memory, it has a small magnetic hard disk.

Ok: The iPod mini is appealing to me because it is reputed to be jog-proof, which is good because I am forever dropping things!

jog-proof doesn't mean drop proof.

NotMe

does misticriver not have a good solution?

I have the latest firmware and it does have some problems. To be honest, it's not that bad but compared to Creatives firmware I find it annoying to use.

i don't see how it could be annoying, surely when you get used to it it seems easy.

NotMe

No it's not difficult to use, it's just so slow and unresponsive. When I press play on a song it takes 15-20 seconds to start playing. Then if I press forward it can take 0 - 20 seconds to skip to the next song and sometimes after skipping it becomes completely unresponsive so I press forward 5 times... nothing... then 20 seconds later it skips forward 5 songs. Oh yeah the same thing can happen between songs when playing normally, not just when you press forward.

The browser mode is useless. If you have a lot of songs on it you could make a cup of tea while waiting for the browser to open.

And then there's lack of on-the-fly playlists...

hmm, are you sure it's not just yours? My mate's seemed pretty quick alright.

NotMe

It seems to be a pretty common complaint on mystic river. Although they mainly talk about a long gap between tracks on DRM content and I don't have any DRM music.

if i was you i'd get it checked out, surely you cant have had it for a year. Put all your music back on your pc, give the mp3 player a couple of kicks and send it back for a replacement.

NotMe

I might just do that.

cormie

the iPod mini is surely only as jog proof as the rest of the Hard Drive based players out there? And yes, jog proof has nothing to do with durability. Jog proof is simply the buffer on the device to deal with shakes, not falls or knocks.

Tell us more.

What do you want an mp3 player for? Be as detailed as possible, your music collection size, hours spent listening per day, situations where you will be listening to it with, are you computer literate, are you prepared to spend time to get your collection the way you want it. Give as much info as possible and you'll get a better response.

rsynnott

cormie wrote:

the iPod mini is surely only as jog proof as the rest of the Hard Drive based players out there? And yes, jog proof has nothing to do with durability. Jog proof is simply the buffer on the device to deal with shakes, not falls or knocks.

The smaller disks are a little less prone to vibration problems, and ipods in generaly have a larger memory cache than most of the competition. However, the iPod mini is certainly not drop proof. The ipod shuffle is, to a large extent.

cormie

The iPod shuffle is a disgrace though. The cheek of them to release a flash player without a display. Maybe it was a test to see how much they had the market wrapped around their finger. I'd say their fingernail is about to fall off with the lack of blood flow to it :rolleyes:

NotMe

I fixed my iRiver h10 I went to "portable device initialization" in iRiver plus and wiped everything off it. Then I copied the music back onto it and it works great now! I take back everything I said about it.

So yeah Nala maybe you should consider the h10

rsynnott

cormie wrote:

The iPod shuffle is a disgrace though. The cheek of them to release a flash player without a display. Maybe it was a test to see how much they had the market wrapped around their finger. I'd say their fingernail is about to fall off with the lack of blood flow to it :rolleyes:

*shrug* It meets many people's needs; a lot of people are quite happy to listen to random songs.

cormie

I know, but the same applies to all iPod things really, you can find better for cheaper.

rsynnott

cormie wrote:

I know, but the same applies to all iPod things really, you can find better for cheaper.

Hmm, depends on what you mean by better, really, particularly for the shuffle. Don't think you'll find anything else with such a simple, clean, interface, if that's what you're looking for.

NotMe

NotMe wrote:

I fixed my iRiver h10 I went to "portable device initialization" in iRiver plus and wiped everything off it. Then I copied the music back onto it and it works great now! I take back everything I said about it.

So yeah Nala maybe you should consider the h10

good, happy for ya!

rsynnott wrote:

*shrug* It meets many people's needs; a lot of people are quite happy to listen to random songs.

i had an Mp3 player 4 years ago, bought from Lidl for €99 which was a better machine than the ipod shuffle is now!

Nala

cormie wrote:

What do you want an mp3 player for?

Basically, to make my walk to work/college less boring! I enjoy walking to music.

cormie wrote:

Your music collection size

Well over the past 6 or 7 years I've accumulated a music collection of about 60 albums, which isn't very much. I'm hoping to get an MP3 player that can hold at least another 40 albums on top of that so I'm covered for a few years.

cormie wrote:

hours spent listening per day

It depends, at the moment I'd only be listening to it for a half an hour or so, getting to work and back, but if I was going shopping or just going for a normal day at college I could be listening to it for 5 hours+.
Plus I'm going on holiday to America soon, it's an 8-hour flight each way plus the usual 2+ hours in the airport beforehand so I need good battery life.

cormie wrote:

situations where you will be listening to it with

I'll be listening to it when I'm walking, when I'm on the train/bus/plane, on the treadmill, when I'm on a computer-the usual really. Oh and on the beach!

cormie wrote:

are you computer literate

Yep, I'm pretty good on a PC. I'm not a "computer-whizz" but I can get from A to B and back again!

cormie wrote:

are you prepared to spend time to get your collection the way you want it.

Yeah, but I'd like to be able to just put all my CDs onto the player and then for the player to make a list of the songs I listen to most or something. I think that's called an "intuitive" player or something?

cormie wrote:

Give as much info as possible and you'll get a better response.

Well that's about it really.

i suggest

iriver h10

cormie

I'd really opt for a bigger sized device myself if I were you. There is a better choice if you go for the larger capacity and the price difference isn't really that substantial. Once you get one, a whole new world of music will be opened up for you. With something like an iRiver H-1XX/3XX, you will be able to plug it into any of your friends computers and work away at their albums. You will get that extra 40 albums in no time, and 100 albums is about the amount you can fit onto a 6gb unit so once you reach that mark you will have to start deleting albums you don't listen to as much etc etc. Save yourself the hassle and go for a 20/40GB unit.

One big question is... what's your budget?

you see, if you get a 5/6gb model, spend a tiny bit more and you can get a 20gb, spend a tiny bit more on that and you get a 40gb, but I'm guessing you don't need 40gb just yet, and by the time you do, MP3 players will probably be allot cheaper than they are now, well maybe not that cheaper but there will definitely be a better selection.

Let me know your budget anyway:)

muckwarrior

Deleted User wrote:

neither,
easy to use = iriver h10

masterofthereal wrote:

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For God sake shut up with the iRiver propeganda. They are not that good! Especially when it comes to usability.
As someone else has already pointed out, creative's firmware is vastly superior. My prehistoric Jukebox 2 has features that my so called state of the art H320 could only dream of!

well i have a creative, its better than an ipod, but it's no iriver. In fact someone had pointed out that the Creative's were inferior already!

Irishstabber

I got an Ipod mini the other day and I have listened to it for a total of about 3-4 hours so far.
I am worried that the battery life is NO WHERE near what is advertised. I say this cause the battery symbol is about 1/3 down and 3x3 is 9 and 4x3 is 12
According to the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:
of merchantable quality
fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable
as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.

Could I, if its not at least 14 hours, bring it back?

4Xcut

I have an iPod. Get a zen

muckwarrior

Deleted User wrote:

well i have a creative, its better than an ipod, but it's no iriver. In fact someone had pointed out that the Creative's were inferior already!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that iRivers are bad, but there are certain areas where they're severely lacking. Like FFS you cant even create a playlist! If creative could do this 3 years ago then why the hell can't iRiver do it now??? :mad:

new Creative's don't have that option either afaik.

Goldstein

Irishstabber wrote:

I got an Ipod mini the other day and I have listened to it for a total of about 3-4 hours so far.
I am worried that the battery life is NO WHERE near what is advertised.
...
Could I, if its not at least 14 hours, bring it back?

Battery life depends on a few factors:
> The bit rate of the tracks you listening to
> Amount of backlight usage
> Amount of flicking you do between songs
> Volume level

If you want to check your battery life against the advertised figures:

1. Make a playlist in iTunes from nothing but 128kbps songs, around 50 of them (Just add duplicates to the playlist if you don't have enough 128s). Update the iPod to add your new playlist to it.

2. Go to settings on the iPod. Turn off the EQ and set repeat to "All".

3. Charge it fully, then disconnect everything except the earphones.

4. Play the playlist you made.

5. Set the volume to 50%

6. Leave it playing. Come back to check it's still playing after around: 10 hours, 12 hours, 14 hours, 16 hours, 17 hours, or more often if you want a more precise measure.

It should last somewhere in the region of 17-18 hours.

RicardoSmith

The iShuffle is considered to havve the best sound quality of all the iPods. Its also the only flash Apple player. Probably the MP3 less likely to break after a fall since there nothing in it to break.

One thing that bugs me about the iPods is that if you switch between a few computers, say at work, and at home and maybe a laptop, its designed so that you can only really use it with one PC. AFAIK if you want to transfer stuff to it from another PC you essentially have to delete all of the music off it. For me thats a problem. I've heard that it can have this problem with music files. Not sure about data.

Same problem with Sonys Sonic Stage. Dunno about the creative players. I know its for DRM, but its still annoying. I'm not a bit fan of iTunes as its tagging is dire. You can rip 3 CD's from the same boxset and it will put them in different album names, catergories etc. Its also a bit slow as a player. Resource instensive etc.

I'd like a player with a line, and a radio so that rules out iPods for me. But I would be concerned about all the bugs with iRivers. The support isn't good either. All HD based players seem to break a lot, and have dire battery life.

There doesn't seem to be a "perfect" mp3 player. They are all flawed in some way or other.

I like the size of the Rio Carbons myself. Has its own issues, but for €200 its a 5GB player with a decent battery life.

CrimE

Deleted User wrote:

new Creative's don't have that option either afaik.

yep they do.

imo creative are far superior than all other brands. i have tried both ipods and irivers and wasnt half as impressed as i was with my zen.

and regarding the 12 hours battery life i sincerly doubt you could bring it back. that 14 hours is based on "perfect" conditions ie. no backlight use, browsing low bitrate etc 12 hours isnt actually bad at all.

people seem to be forgetting that ipod mini doesnt have a removable battery which i believe is terrible...

Nala

Irishstabber wrote:

I got an Ipod mini the other day and I have listened to it for a total of about 3-4 hours so far.
I am worried that the battery life is NO WHERE near what is advertised. I say this cause the battery symbol is about 1/3 down and 3x3 is 9 and 4x3 is 12
According to the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:
of merchantable quality
fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable
as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.

Could I, if its not at least 14 hours, bring it back?

As with the batteries in mobile phones, it takes a few cycles for the battery life to be at it's full potential.

You can't create playlists with iRiver-what does that mean?
Does that mean I wouldn't be able to make a folder of my favourite songs?
My 128mb flash player can do that!

I'm now seriously considering buying the 6gb Zen Micro when I go to America in a few weeks, though I've no idea what colour to get. The light blue looks much nicer in real life than on paper.

NotMe

You can create playlists with the iRiver but you have to do it on your computer. You can't create them on the fly.