1.6.0 Leaked patch notes

joe.

http://wow-slo.com/viewtopic.php?t=1561

Memnoch

very dissapointed, looks like they have only made cosmetic changes to alleviate BG queue times.

abccormac

damn, i payed to respec my warlock yesterday....

Funky

Another patch goes by with nothing to alleviate the problem that Blizzard constantly say they want to avoid.

They want to stop any particular class being targetted in PvP first and then having nothing they can do about it. Well its a big "GG" to priests again this patch. Even the Will of GG nerf does little for us, and a nice little warrior buff is giving them more incentive to focus us.

I should have rolled a druid.

Caliden

so druids are immune to slowing effects -_-
sounds fake tbh.
the author was probably a druid...

Funky

No druids aren't immune, they can just shift out of them now. Like they've been supposed to be able to since day 1.

Caliden

if it is true, i can't wait for the whine threads from 50% of the horde community

Fenster

I was going to respec my lock to make some minor changes today, I guess I'll hold off, hehe.

(Fel Concentration instead of Improved Healthstone and Improved CoA for the curious)

quozl

Caliden wrote:

if it is true, i can't wait for the whine threads from 50% of the horde community

you look forward to whine threads? What a strange chap.

I dare say there'll be whiners, there always are and on both sides - but I can't see many people objecting to the WoTF change. It's about time frankly. The ones who do will do so loudly and incoherently of course. Enjoy reading them

quozl

Fenster wrote:

I was going to respec my lock to make some minor changes today, I guess I'll hold off, hehe.

(Fel Concentration instead of Improved Healthstone and Improved CoA for the curious)

Fel concentration rocks but are you sure you really want to put points into Improved CoA? 3 talent points for a 6% boost on a curse that often won't run it's full course anyway? Got to be a bigger return you can get for those 3 points elsewhere.

Dustaz

the will of the gg nerf will make a big difference in BG's i think and is no bad thing. Now if they can only come up with some way to balance shamans:)

Fenster

quozl wrote:

Fel concentration rocks but are you sure you really want to put points into Improved CoA? 3 talent points for a 6% boost on a curse that often won't run it's full course anyway? Got to be a bigger return you can get for those 3 points elsewhere.

RTFP!

I'm putting points into Fel Contentration, from Improved CoA/Healthstone

Funky

The Will of GG nerf really isn't as big as it seems. 99% of people use it only to break out of said effects and diminishing returns will take care of whatever spell you get hit with after the 5 second immunity. Helps Warlocks a bit I guess, but still leaves Priests free HK in PvP to any with decent coordination.

Ivan

5 seconds is a big nerf, but as a regular undead player, its still way out of line of other racial traits.

The list looks pretty real to me, though.

DapperGent

Dustaz wrote:

Now if they can only come up with some way to balance shamans:)

Are we really that bad? I can never remember feeling particularily overpowered, then again never underpowered really.

From all my PvP I think Druids have to be the most difficult to fight 1v1 though Priests are irritating as fúck too. I love my Shammy but I don't see how he is teh win.

quozl

DapperGent wrote:

Are we really that bad? I can never remember feeling particularily overpowered, then again never underpowered really.

From all my PvP I think Druids have to be the most difficult to fight 1v1 though Priests are irritating as fúck too. I love my Shammy but I don't see how he is teh win.

I don't think they are at all, I never minded them particularly with my gnome warlock.

I'd say druids are the best solo pvp class at the moment, and they probably also bring more to group pvp than a shaman. I sure as hell can't beat a decently played one 1v1 with my tri-spec priest.

Warriors with arcanite reapers or equivalent are pretty scarey too. I think shamans were just mentioned as you can't have a proper WoW thread without giving out about shamans or paladins

Funky

Nerf Blessing of Protection.

Ivan

rofl.
Nerf their lay on hands/healing spells, and they wont be a problem anymore.
How's about a 4 second cooldown for their heal spells?
no seriously, rofl.

Funky

Nerf sarcasm.

Paladins are the most gimped class in the game right now.

Matt Simis

Funky wrote:

Nerf sarcasm.

Paladins are the most gimped class in the game right now.

They seem to hold their own, very good when grouped too. However, as a Horde is feel they add so much tedium to PVP, killing a Paly is a long drawn out, boring affair. When they are beaten, all I feel is that Ive wasted mana.


Matt

Funky

Poor dps, inefficient heals, no snares and no real DD spell. All they have going for them is BoP on casters, cleanse and the fact that they're hard to kill... But they're targetted last anyway so...

I consider Shaman balanced, so the alliance counterpart needs huge buffs.

I know using CTF as an example isn't a 100% accurate way of comparing classes but it's the only real PvP in the game right now.
In CTF, having more than 1 Paladin is generally a burden unless you're actively gonna MC/BoP flag carriers. Whereas, generally the more shaman the better horde side.

Ivan

personally, I dont find shamen too powerful. In a well thought out duel, I've beaten shamen with a mage, a druid and a priest.

And slaughter paladins with those same classes.
The problem with paladins, is, when you dont know how to fight them, they seem really scary and tough. But once you figure out how to beat em, with your class, they suck, incredibly.

I really think paladin could use a few buffs, I'd nearly remove one of their shields, so you could give them something they dont have. Like some dps, or another (melee) stun. Their shields just make them irritating, and effectively useless.

Lay on hands is pretty fantastic though.

Caliden

its got a pretty fantastic cooldown too

Matt Simis

Funky wrote:

In CTF, having more than 1 Paladin is generally a burden unless you're actively gonna MC/BoP flag carriers. Whereas, generally the more shaman the better horde side.

Does the Paly Shield make them drop the flag? I really wouldnt add more Shields or Stuns to Palys, they seem to make excessive use of them right now anyway. A Paladin is meant to be a support class, not a 1v1 combatant. They excel supporting the troops with some incredible Buffs and great survivability. The fact they dont own in 1v1 or pure dmg output seems perfectly acceptable to me. I also wouldnt compare then the Shamans.. its odd people try to put them on the same lvl just because they are the two exclusive classes.


Matt

Memnoch

Paladins are amazing in CTF, due to the fact that they are so hard to kill/immobolise.

They also make the best flag holders. A pally with even 2 or 3 players defending him can just run circles in his base and stay alive indefinately while his team mates retrieve the flag. Pally also acts as a great support to help the person running with the flag out of the enemy base escape.

I think they are good at that role. But I still agree that paly's suck over all.

Basically the blame lies with Verigan's Fist. It's a quest they get at level 20 that gave them a god like 2-h weapon. The result was that paladins seemed amazing at level 20-40. Add that to the fact that the idiots playing WoW couldn't get the concept of backing off and bandaging when the paladin was shielded instead fo trying to beat on his shield, and the mass crying from idiots got them nerfed through a "bug fix".

I would give paladins back the old SOTC and i'd say they'd be balanced then.

Funky

Yes BoP makes the flag carrier drop it, which is the cause of excessive horde whining these days. All Paladins need is a snare, give them a pulsing snare aura or a Judgement that snares and they will be balanced.

Shaman and Paladins both play extremely similar roles for their faction. They are both support characters with buffs, healing and cleansing abilities... But Shaman were intended for offensive purposes where Paladins were intended to be defensive. But it just happens that Shaman are incredible offensively with the healing/utility to act defensively if needed, where Paladins are only pretty decent defensively and almost 100% useless offensively(Retri Paladins are hilarious).

edit: Posted right at the same time as you so I won't post another reply :P
I think "amazing" is a bit too much, yes they're good flag carriers and have their uses for running the flag out of the enemy base they still don't have nearly the same usefulness as pretty much any other class. Having more than 1 Paladin on your team puts you at a disadvantage, this shouldn't be.

Memnoch

the bop thing has to be nerfed, i can't see that as intentional. Anything that takes "control" away from a player is bad. In stand off's this gives alliance a definite victory, they can just rush the enemy flag carrier wit h4-5 ppl, and all they have to do is MC + BOP to retrieve their flag, not kill the flag carrier as i'm sure the intention behind the concept is (since that is how CTF basically works?).

I'm sure this is something blizzard didn't forsee, since it's a pretty creative use of the combinatino of MC and BOP. The whole BOP makes flag carrier drop flag is meant to be a restriction from it being abused to help their flag carrier get away, not to allow alliance to take the flag back with impunity

Funky

I agree it's a cheap tactic, but it has to work one way or the other. You can't say BoP may not be used on a friendly flag carrier, and then make a different rule for an enemy flag carrier.

They shouldn't have made the Paladin class like it is if they were going to decide Immune abilities would drop the flag. They need to allow Immunities except DS to protect flag holders. BoP can be purged, and only protects from physical damage. Why this isn't allowed on a flag holders is kind of baffling tbh. Horde are the faction with alot more offensive dispelling, is it too much to ask that they use their abilities to counter BoP?

Memnoch

I think you say this because you haven't played against a good alliance team.

I think there are several issue's at stake here...

1st of all consider that CTF is a random thing, this means that there isn't necessarily a shaman in every group. Now yes you might say there are lots of shamans around and all that, and that may be true, but it's quite possible and does happen that a team has no shamans on it. We all know that the pre-made balanced group of 10 is impossible to get into CTF on most servers.

Secondly, I've played against some very good players. once late night we had a match up of 10 denied (best horde guild) vs 10 synergy (best alliance guild). We've had a few of these and they tend to be 50-50 we win some, they win some depending on class balance. Every other guild both we and they have pretty much trounced in CTF on a consistant basis... ANYWAYS, the point is that an alliance flag carrier is already incredibly hard to stop and or kill.

This is especially because of fear ward, and even more so with the latest will of the forsaken nerf. Fear ward guarentees an immunity to the next fear. now take a DRUID for example. There is no form of CC that works on them OTHER than fear. You can't poly them, and now frost effects are also nerfed. Not to mention any slowing effect you cast is instantly dispelled by cleanse. Druids can move fast, and one supported by a healer or two or a mage or two is insane to take down. We had a game vs synergy where they did very effective attacks which were impossible for us to stop (shaman and all) because of the lack of cc (frost shock is very limited). Also remember fear ward can be cast on everyone in their team (esp if u have 2 dwarf priests) while WOTF was an undead only ability, and ofc there is a pvp trinket.

The point is that an alliance druid flag carrier with decent support is insane enough to take down. Due to the fact that the flag carrier is constantly moving and mages following him are constantly targetted first this makes it even harder, and a lot of the dps needs to come from warrior's and rogues. Additionally a warrior's hamstring remains one of the most effective flag "slowing" abilities in game, ever seen a warrior protect a flag carrier? it's insane, he just charge's/intercept's + hamstrings everyone on the enemy team, hard to counter. It's bloody hard enough as it is taking down a well defended flag carrier, you throw BOP on that used at the crucial moment and it becomes impossible to stop them getting away with your flag or retrieving your flag in the first place, since you nullify warrior/rogue/hunter DPS, esp since in longer fights the casters spend most of their time OOM.

Paladins are still very useful in CTF as i've said before, they are incredibly hard to kill and make excellent flag holders in standoffs, they are also great for escorting the flag stealer since it's pretty much impossible to immobilise them in any way and if you try to kill them then the flag carrier gets away and if you ignore them then they heal and cleanse the flag carrier.

As i said before I agree that OVER ALL paladins are **** in PvP, however in CTF they are pretty amazing if played well.

The BOP dropping flag thing is meant to be something taken away from pallies, not used as an advantage. It's meant to stop paladins from making the flag carrier immune to damage, not to drop the flag. Anyone who claims blizzard actually intended you to MC someone then BOP them is talking out their ass, no way did they think of that being a viable and reasonable method of getting the flag back since it's essentially impossible to stop a decent team from doing that.

Killing a druid flag carrier that is defended by 2 priests and a mage or rogue takes a **** load of horde as it is, but using BOP + MC only takes 4 ppl (two distractions) especially if the enemy have to commit a lot of their forces to try and take down your flag carrier.

To me this bOP crap is no less than cheating.

Ivan

Matt Simis wrote:

Does the Paly Shield make them drop the flag?

Yup

Matt Simis wrote:

I really wouldnt add more Shields or Stuns to Palys, they seem to make excessive use of them right now anyway.

Ok, I wouldnt give any more shields to them, but they could certainly use a stun, imho.

Matt Simis wrote:

A Paladin is meant to be a support class, not a 1v1 combatant. They excel supporting the troops with some incredible Buffs and great survivability.
[/quote

Saying such_and_such_a_class is meant to be a support class, is fine. But mages/priests/warlocks/and druids, all the support classes I can think of, all can hold their own in 1v1. At least on the most part, a Paladin is fubar'd by a semi-competent player, of any of these classes.
And I'd hardly class survivability as such an advantage, as paladins dont really tend to survive, but rather delay the inevitable.

Matt Simis wrote:

A Paladin is meant to be a support class, not a 1v1 combatant. They excel supporting the troops with some incredible Buffs and great survivability.

I'm sorry, what? A paladin is meant to be a support class, surely not. Their shields are next to useless, compared to a priest shield, their heals are useless compared to any healing class, their dps is marginal, so not much support there either. As for buffs, what buffs?! Clense is nice, some of the blessings are OK but excel? Not likely.

Matt Simis wrote:

The fact they dont own in 1v1 or pure dmg output seems perfectly acceptable to me.

And yet the support class priest, warlock, mage (and to a much lesser extent) the druid, all out damage a paladin. Um... acceptable? That a weaker "supporting" class (paladins), should do less damage, as well?
Um...

Matt Simis wrote:

I also wouldnt compare them to Shamans.. its odd people try to put them on the same lvl just because they are the two exclusive classes.

rofl

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

Killing a druid flag carrier that is defended by 2 priests and a mage or rogue takes a **** load of horde as it is, but using BOP + MC only takes 4 ppl (two distractions) especially if the enemy have to commit a lot of their forces to try and take down your flag carrier.

To me this bOP crap is no less than cheating.

Cry more n00b

Memnoch

Dustaz wrote:

Cry more n00b

What an original attempt at trolling!!!!111111one!!1

koneko

Man, if I could have "cry more n00b" implemented as a cause for banning, I would.
*shudder*

Funky

This is all theorycraft until the next content patch. Right now with frost shock in its current form Horde have a huge advantage. I still definitely think that BoP has to be used on either our flag carrier or be used on the Horde ones, it's up to Blizzard now which way they're going to let it be used.

Whether it's cheating or not is debateable. I don't think it is, I frown upon using it generally but it is a game mechanic which is working like it should. I'd be more than happy to swap MC/BoP for the ability to BoP flag carriers, like they should.

quozl

koneko wrote:

Man, if I could have "cry more n00b" implemented as a cause for banning, I would.
*shudder*

I don't think anyone would vote against you on that one. It's nice that these forums are a change from the muppetry of the official ones.

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

What an original attempt at trolling!!!!111111one!!1

Memnoch wrote:

edit - and oh yes... cry more noob

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2653419&postcount=31

Sorry, i should have known that Denied (WtfpwnBestGuildEver ©) had a server first in original trolling attempts!


Of course the MC/BoP trick is unfair. Its as unfair as a single racial trait throwing 2 classes balance totally out the window. But weve been there already

Memnoch

exactly, using something I said earlier to try and troll a post i made = most unoriginal troll ever. Thanks for proving my point.

Anyway i'm sure blizzard will fix the BOP exploit soon enough, and i'm sure it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that it's an exploit. Though some people can blind themselves to obvious imbalances when it suits them.

Memnoch

Funky wrote:

This is all theorycraft until the next content patch. Right now with frost shock in its current form Horde have a huge advantage. I still definitely think that BoP has to be used on either our flag carrier or be used on the Horde ones, it's up to Blizzard now which way they're going to let it be used.

Whether it's cheating or not is debateable. I don't think it is, I frown upon using it generally but it is a game mechanic which is working like it should. I'd be more than happy to swap MC/BoP for the ability to BoP flag carriers, like they should.

nope it's not theory craft, i'm speaking from experience having played against the best alliance guild on bladefist, and their flag carrier IS very hard to stop (yes we had a shaman ) and then to take down. We've often ended up in a stand off situation where both sides have the flag. Now either they didn't knwo the exploit or chose not to use it. Either way if they had use it we would have no defence.

I don't know how you can argue that it would be fair in any way whatsover. This is CTF not deathmatch. Paladin invulnerabilities are fine in normal PvP. However in CTF having the flag carrier immune to damage for any period of time is a moronic concept to say the least and I can't believe you even suggest that. The flag carrier stays aroudn their own base which consequentially is right near their graveyard which means it's not simply a case of waiting for it to wear off.

There is no place for that kind of thing on a flag carrier in CTF, and neither should it be usable to make someone drop the flag.

Honestly that's the most retarded thing i've ever heard. How the hell can anyone pretend it's somehow "fair" that you are guarenteed to make the enemy carrier drop their flag every single time and there is nothing they can do to stop it.

I'm honest and realistic in that I accept that paladins could do with some loving, but please take the context of CTF into account when talking about it.

When good guilds go up against each other and both have the flag in a stand off, which happens a lot btw since it's easier to steal the flag than it is to defend it. This is a 100% guarenteed alliance win. I don't think horde have anything similar to this.

Comparing a short snare to something that is guarenteed to drop the flag every single time is intellectual dishonesty of the worst kind

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

However in CTF having the flag carrier immune to damage for any period of time is a moronic concept to say the least and I can't believe you even suggest that.

It appears that as well as inventing and trademarking the phrase "Cry More n00b", Denied (OMGWTFBestGuildEver ©) have also banned Priests from playing CTF for reasons of fairness.

Please learn what BoP does before posting inaccurate information.

Like i said, the tactic is an exploit because it was clearly an oversight which resulted from people calling for another uneeded paladin nerf.

Memnoch

i played a paladin on US servers so I know how much they suck.

I'm happy to give them the old SOTC back so they can atleast deal a little damage and be somewhat more of a threat on the battlefield. I don't think they were unbalanced with the old SOTC, that was just a stupid myth propagated by lvl 20-40 idiots. And ofc everyone bought into blizzards (it wans't meant to be like that nonsense excuse for a nerf)

immunity of any kind (even to just physical damage) doesn't belong in a CTF game.(talking about flag carrier here).

Most caster damage is not insta, it requires them to stand still and cast, but CTF is a constantly moving game, esp when regarding the flag carrier, which means a lot of the DPS has to come from melee's, not to mention chasing casters get cut down fast by defending rogues and warriors.

Funky

You can purge BoP, and you can also do magic damage. How this makes BoP unfair I have no idea. Why is it so hard to press your dispel key, or purge key? Obviously if DS was allowed it would be ridiculous. I'm sorry but I know you'd probably say the exact same as I'll say... but you seem closed minded and wanting every advantage for your faction. As it stands if BoP worked neither way horde would have every advantage and Alliance would get absolutely nothing. Now talk about "fair".

And before you mention you're in a top guild... So am I, our guild rolls every horde guild on our server bar one, who we go 50:50 with(without MC/BoP), so I also know how CTF works.

Memnoch

Funky wrote:

You can purge BoP, and you can also do magic damage. How this makes BoP unfair I have no idea. Why is it so hard to press your dispel key, or purge key? Obviously if DS was allowed it would be ridiculous. I'm sorry but I know you'd probably say the exact same as I'll say... but you seem closed minded and wanting every advantage for your faction. As it stands if BoP worked neither way horde would have every advantage and Alliance would get absolutely nothing. Now talk about "fair".

And before you mention you're in a top guild... So am I, our guild rolls every horde guild on our server bar one, who we go 50:50 with(without MC/BoP), so I also know how CTF works.

right so first of all if you are 50:50 with the top guild your server (without the exploit) would you not say that CTF is balanced? To me at least CTF seems balanced in that the best team tends to win, in our case we've trounced all alliance guilds but one repeatedly, now this might make these alliance cry imba were it not for the fact that synergy have also trounced every other horde guild (especially affliction - much to my satisfaction) on a constant basis. So if there is this big shaman imbalance I don't see it.

Also since i'm pretty much quitting wow (sub runs out today not renewing) I have no vested interst by getting an advantage for my faction. If I did I wouldn't be proposing that Paladins get back their old SOTC.

BOP may be dispellable but only if there is someone in range to do it. And the few crucial seconds it takes for someone to realise it's on and then dispel it can be enough to make the difference. Obviously blizzard thought it was an unbalanced ability in the CTF BG so they made it so you can't use it while carrying the flag. That's the key point here, that you aren't supposed to be able to use it while carrying the flag. The whole MC thing is clearly an oversight (like being MC'd into lava and taking durability damage was) by blizzard and i'm sure they will fix it.

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

And the few crucial seconds it takes for someone to realise it's on and then dispel it can be enough to make the difference.

Is this not EXACTLY the same as realising theres an earthbind totem dropped, stopping to select it, hitting it, and then running on after carrier (effectivly rendering carrier immune to physical damage), which the alliance dont have.

Memnoch

earth bind is a snare, not an immunity, it doesn't stop you from hamstringing the guy standing next to you.

Or finishing him off with that one last hit. It doesn't allow the enemy to heal their flag carrier with no melee damage on them.

Also earth bind can be killed by anyone. While BOP can be dispelled by at most 2 classes (assuming they are within range in that fight which they might not be - could be defending or attacking or get really lucky in a random group and not have one). ALSO if you look at the druid class forums on the wow official forums there are actually MACRO's out there that allow people to target the earthbind totem with rank one moonfire. So it's not like a druid needs to even wait and click the target they just use the macro and poof the totem is gone. I'm sure similar macro's can be set up for any ranged class with an insta.

IN any case however, having BOP cast on a team mate flag carrier isn't as much of an issue for me as is the whole MC insta drop flag thing. If blizzard decided to allow BOP to be used it would be interesting to see how it works.

But what I DO know is that right now without the exploit CTF is balanced, at least when both teams are good. And if you asked our rival guild on alliance they would say the same.

but yes it's nice how you try and pass off a snare as being the same as an invulnerability. I suppose that's the same line of logic that some how says having to kill the flag carrier to get your flag back is the same as running in and MC'ing them with no chance of being stopped.

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

earth bind is a snare, not an immunity, it doesn't stop you from hamstringing the guy standing next to you.

Im not saying its an immunity (although for every situation you can come up with, i can come up with an equally plausible situation where it stops the carrier from recieving meaningful physical damage). Im saying that it also needs the action/reaction to acknowldge its use and get rid of it. If alliance can react to horde only totems just fine in ctf, horde should be able to deal with alliance only BoP.

Also earth bind can be killed by anyone. While BOP can be dispelled by at most 2 classes (assuming they are within range in that fight which they might not be - could be defending or attacking or get really lucky in a random group and not have one).

Seriously, cry more. Poisons? curses? Mind control? Magic? All these things can have an effect on the flag carrier and/or chasers and all of these things can be dispelled by a limited number of classes only. Either you have the resources and skill to deal with them or you dont.

IN any case however, having BOP cast on a team mate flag carrier isn't as much of an issue for me as is the whole MC insta drop flag thing. If blizzard decided to allow BOP to be used it would be interesting to see how it works.

Really? What happened to "However in CTF having the flag carrier immune to damage for any period of time is a moronic concept to say the least and I can't believe you even suggest that."?

BArra

i would love to have funkys and my guild Midnight take on Denied in CTF, would be great fun. Maybe one day we can transfer to euro :rolleyes:

on the BoP flag carrier thing, theirs also a weapon that can be got from Blackrock Mountain called the Judges Gavel that also causes the flag to drop, as it has a proc that makes the target engulfed in a shield, immune to doing anything, thus dropping the flag

me no wanna give up http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?123828 and my ickle reaper :eek:

Matt Simis

Ivan wrote:

Yup


Ok, I wouldnt give any more shields to them, but they could certainly use a stun, imho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Simis
I also wouldnt compare them to Shamans.. its odd people try to put them on the same lvl just because they are the two exclusive classes.
rofl

1: They already have a tedious and annoying stun.
2: "Exclusive", perhaps you misunderstood. Exclusive as in to the exclusion of another:
Shaman = Horde
Paladin = Alliance


Matt

quozl

BArra wrote:

i would love to have funkys and my guild Midnight take on Denied in CTF, would be great fun. Maybe one day we can transfer to euro :rolleyes:

We can only dream I want my gnome warlock back from the US

Funky

I honestly can't see how anyone could think CTF is balanced at the moment, in simple class by class comparisons the Horde have the advantage in that a Shaman is almost perfectly designed for the game type, speed, healing and multiple snares... one thats even an AE snare. So they have a pretty decent advantage before even going near the fact that horde racial traits are ridiculous.
Fear bombs on healers to focus the flag carriers are generally useless because most priests are undead, first they can Will of GG and then EVEN with the new 5 second WoGG they have a trinket to get out of the next fear and diminishing returns takes care of the rest.
Then you have Orcs who resist pretty much every stun which is a huge part of trying to stop a flag carrier.
And then theres War Stomp... I don't need to explain why this skill is insane in such a game type.

Yes Alliance CAN counter alot of this, yes Alliance CAN beat Horde teams of equal player skill... BUT it takes far more effort, teamplay and strategic thinking than it takes for the Horde to win a game.

Kairo

more on topic..patch notes additions:

June 28th
# Honor system reward item’s rank requirement will now be based on a characters highest lifetime rank rather than the character’s current rank.

fixed!

now nerf shamanz plz gg

DRakE

MAKE PRIESTS SHACKLE UNDEAD ACTUALLY WORK ON UNDEAD.

= ****ing owned undead rogues
= no more whine from me
= more fun for everyone