Drinking in restaurants rather than the cafe bars

rubadub

They are meant to be scrapping the cafe-bar idea, and letting restaurants serve booze instead.
What is the definition of a restaurant in Irish law?
Are we going to be getting super-size guinness with our big-macs, I cannot imagine any definition of a restaurant than mcdonalds could not pass.

Draupnir

if the law was that restaurants are anywhere that sells real food, McDonalds wouldnt count. I wouldnt call what they sell food.

rubadub

Draupnir wrote:

that sells real food,.

So you're going to need a legal definition of "real food". There are going to be lots of places trying to pass themselves off as a restaurant now. I presume take-away chippers are classed as restaurants too. Could a newsagent that sells a few sandwiches now sell booze?

Dr. Loon

rubadub wrote:

. Could a newsagent that sells a few sandwiches now sell booze?

They already do. I imagine Mc Donalds would be able to sell beer, much like they do in Spain/Portugal etc.

ixoy

Umm I'm assuming it's only those restauraunts that already have a license to sell wine. McDonalds doesn't have one so it won't be extending its non-exisitng license to beer as a result, right? :S

monkeyfudge

ixoy wrote:

Umm I'm assuming it's only those restauraunts that already have a license to sell wine. McDonalds doesn't have one so it won't be extending its non-exisitng license to beer as a result, right? :S

They should get a license allowing them to sell spirits.

mmmmmm.... McAbsinthe.

Sleepy

Damn this backwards country. I thought the Café Bars sounded like a great idea. I'd imagine the twenty-somethings of this country would have thronged to them instead of the crap disco-bars and nite-clubs we have

BizzyC

I've been in plenty of restaraunts that sold drinks, most do.

joejoem

Were probably not far off having a "drinks card" that allows you have 12 drinks a week like a drinking passport or a licence to drink. The policed state.

rubadub

I found the definition of the cafe bars. Had to be 130 square metres and serve hot food. So a small DIY shop or hairdressers selling slices of toast would have qualified.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0415/alcohol.html

this is the bit on restaurants, doesn't spell out what "deregulated" means

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0613/alcohol.html

I don't see the difference really, surely people can still introduce new cafe bars i.e. a restaurant that serves drink.

AFAIK A newsagent that sells beer is really an off-licence, just as many off licences sell food too.

Many restaurants have full beer and spirit licences. I know a few that sell it on the side and just give a donation to the infamous "garda benelovent fund" at christmas.

simu

Sleepy wrote:

Damn this backwards country. I thought the Café Bars sounded like a great idea. I'd imagine the twenty-somethings of this country would have thronged to them instead of the crap disco-bars and nite-clubs we have

Yeah, agreed.

aidan_walsh

Sleepy wrote:

Damn this backwards country. I thought the Café Bars sounded like a great idea. I'd imagine the twenty-somethings of this country would have thronged to them instead of the crap disco-bars and nite-clubs we have

They might have worked in the cities, but I wouldn't have really seen them taking off outside of them, nice and all as the idea would have been.

cournioni

Draupnir wrote:

if the law was that restaurants are anywhere that sells real food, McDonalds wouldnt count. I wouldnt call what they sell food.

McDonalds in Germany sells beer...

MooShop

most proper restaurants already sell alcohol, but as for fast food places im not sure how they might look on that, i guess they will just have to be more specific and give us all a bit more clarity on the subject

GOAT_BOY

Eddie Rockets in town sell Bud. Weis. Er.

I don't really get it, what's the difference between a cafe bar and a resturant that sells drink

Draupnir

I think if half the politicians got their heads outta their holes and stopped making "where" or "how much" people drink such an issue, we'd be better off.

the problem,in Dublin anyway, lies in the considerable lack of a police presence in town on weekend nites. maybe if they concentrated on getting a few more cops in the streets, we wouldnt get drunken muppets starting rows.

cafe bars would have been a cool idea though, id much prefer to chill out in a comfy couch, sipping a nice cold guinness and chatting to my mates than standing in a sweaty, smelly nightclub trying to shout to be heard.

toiletduck

PORNAPSTER wrote:

McDonalds in Germany sells beer...

they do in spain aswell, i was shocked but wasnt complaining!

ixoy

GOAT_BOY wrote:

I don't really get it, what's the difference between a cafe bar and a resturant that sells drink

The difference being a cafe bar sold hot food but you didn't have to buy it to get a drink. In a restaurant you'd be expected to buy food to get the drink and not just go in, sit at a table, and order beer. In practice it might work out differently, but that's the theory AFAIK.

Urban Weigl

Last time I was at the McDonald's at Dublin Airport, the guy in the queue in front of me tried to order beer. He was shocked none was available!

MorningStar

GOAT_BOY wrote:

Eddie Rockets in town sell Bud. Weis. Er.

I don't really get it, what's the difference between a cafe bar and a resturant that sells drink

I am bit confused on this too. Some people seem to take this a victory against more alcoholsales while others( smaller groups) saying this is worse.
I never saw the difference between cafe bars and many pubs. Some restraunts will gear more towards the drinkers and appear more like pubs. I would love to go drink a bottle of wine and munch of food in a nice environment than many pubs but restraunts are obsessed with getting their tables back. The thought that the licence change was going to change the whole industry in the way they want is just simple thinking

rugbug86

i'd like to be able to have a beer over dinner because i'm not really a huge wine drinker. so I'm in favour of it. also a nice baileys coffee/calypso coffee/megamerge baileys and kahlua coffee after dinner is nice too.

edit: i think they should give licences to anyone who wants them (within reason) - a bit of competition never hurt anyone!

MorningStar

rugbug86 wrote:

a bit of competition never hurt anyone!

Tell that to the people that used to supply Quinnsworth who now compete with non eu produce . What about the suppliers who can't get onto shelves because they are full of Tesco's own brand.
I think the pubs need to adapt but I also don't want to see a brewrey system like in the UK to come in. Spar like pubs won't make things better for anyone.
I think you missed my point. The licence law isn't going to be the problem so much it's how the businesses are run. IN Continetal Europe you can stay at the table for a long time. In Ireland thay want the table back quickly. This would have to change. You can stay in a coffee shop for hours with one coffee here they would kick you out

rugbug86

and you missed my point. i was only saying they shouldnt be so (with the want of a better word) anal about liqour licences

Kingsize

more licenced places & less offlicences would stop a lot of the "anti social behavior" (that & the gards actually doing their job )
cafe bars would only push up the price of coffee.

MorningStar

rugbug86 wrote:

and you missed my point. i was only saying they shouldnt be so (with the want of a better word) anal about liqour licences

I got that point and I don't agree hence I mentioned things that could happen if the laws were relaxed too much. The problem is the business models used have to change as well as the licence laws. Changing one won't change the other straight away yet that seems to be the simplistic view being taken.
To belief that competiton makes the best market is simplistic and seems to be the only one people think works.

axer

Restaurants should def be allowed to sell more than just wine - the current restriction is rubbish. I cant see why MacDonalds etc wouldnt apply for a restaurant style liquor licence if they could sell beer too - they are a restaurant just like Supermacs who call themselves "The family restaurant".
This whole idea of cafe bars and restaurants that sell beer etc is not going to change the problems on the streets every weekend. The only solution to weekend night problems I can see is to remove the time restrictions on selling alcohol - make 24 hour bars and clubs. Sure people will go crazy for the first 3-6 months but then it will settle down and will end up with less people in the streets at the same time.

amazingemmet

I've just moved back from bristol where recently they've brought in 24 hrs license but afaik not one bar has applied for one and the general feeling with the publicans is that they don't want to be open 24 hrs and i think theres a similiar feeling here towards them

axer

amazingemmet wrote:

I've just moved back from bristol where recently they've brought in 24 hrs license but afaik not one bar has applied for one and the general feeling with the publicans is that they don't want to be open 24 hrs and i think theres a similiar feeling here towards them

yes but it will take time - staffing etc. All it takes is a few bars to take it up and more will then follow.

Civilian_Target

Cafe bars should be legal - it could, and should, have been McDowells finest hour.

Ray777

Cafe bars should be legal - it could, and should, have been McDowells finest hour.

But does 'modern Ireland' really need to become any more soulless and pretentious?

rubadub

amazingemmet wrote:

I've just moved back from bristol where recently they've brought in 24 hrs license but afaik not one bar has applied for one and the general feeling with the publicans is that they don't want to be open 24 hrs

They shouldnt have to apply for one. All bars with an existing licence should simply be allowed to open and close as they wish, just like a newsagent or chipper can. Of course most pubs do not want to have staff there 24hrs, they should be given a choice though. Just because they have a 24hr licence doesnt mean they must open 24hrs, I am sure many would like one if the world cup was on at dodgy hours, or for private rented functions etc. My local chipper reopens it doors if enough people gather outside while they are cleaning up. I am sure a pub down the country would like to stay open (legally!) if a local wedding has taken place.

Does anybody know if the UK pubs are being charged if they apply for a 24hr licence? Maybe it has a huge cost per year and they don't know if their pub is suited to it.

Just because the pubs don't want it is no reason to not bring it in. Many pubs may prefer closing time to be at 10pm, that way their pubs will be packed full of people drinking very heavily, yet their overheads and staff costs are reduced so their actual profits may increase. All the pubs are concerned about is profit, not drunkeness on the streets.

the_syco

And here's where it gets stupid. This is already allowed. The thing is, not many restaurants do it as its costly, and they're not allowed to show the bar.

toiletduck

Ray777 wrote:

But does 'modern Ireland' really need to become any more soulless and pretentious?

you mean French?

Capt'n Midnight

What I really miss round here is having beer with pizza and getting change from €10.

Still it would be nice to be able to have a pint with a pizza, what's that pub down in Galway with the pizzeria next door that does that - excellent.

Victor

GOAT_BOY wrote:

I don't really get it, what's the difference between a cafe bar and a resturant that sells drink

Not a lot, thats the point. It's café bars by the back door.

Of course they will still need a drinks licence.

county

they should sell alcohol anywhere if your over 18,next the goverment will be telling us what to eat for our dinners,oh sorry they are doing that!!

the_syco

Victor wrote:

GOAT_BOY wrote:

I don't really get it, what's the difference between a cafe bar and a resturant that sells drink

Not a lot, thats the point. It's café bars by the back door.

Of course they will still need a drinks licence.

The main difference is that a resturant has to pay alot to get a license, and usually can't either afford it, or get anough money to justify it. Also, currently, resturants can't show the taps to the customer. They must be hidden from view.