M50 Idiots

Guy:Incognito

Idiots is th ebest way to describe them without using stronger words that will probably get me banned. It took me 10 mins to get from just before the Clondalkin exit off the M50 to just afer the Liffey Valley one. Sitting there didnt bother me too much as I reckoned it was a crash up ahead or something else which can't be helped. But I nearly lost the head when I reached the LV exit to see cars speeding up and head down to the Toll Bridge. All these idiots were actually slowing down to a near stop to look at the big wheel at a carnival.

How does it enter into anyones head to stop in the middle of a motorway for suh a ridiculous reason. In any country with a bit of cop these people would be arrested. Honestly, the mentality of some people astounds me.

Victor

aaroadwatch have been warning of this for the last few days.

samo

Yep, have heard the same annoucements (funnily enough while I've been stuck in exactly that place going at approx 50 KPH on a 120kph stretch of road - EDIT not going at 50kph by choice either :eek: but by the same eejits that decided to ause the tailback)

The Ferris wheel was there previously - last summer I think and the same occured then as well so obviously the lesson was not learnt

PhoenixRising

Yeah these 'pseudo' traffic jams are a regular feature now on the M50. Some professor in the UK did a study on it and it's all caused by cars in the fast lane not driving fast enough. It can be very annoying when you are sitting in a traffic jam wondering 'what the hell is causing this' and then it disappears just a half mile up the road. Well it's all caused by idiots using the fast lane but not driving fast enough. If people had better lane discipline there'd be no such thing as the pseudo traffic jam.

If you don't feel like driving at 120kph use the slow lane and stay there. I regularly use the slow lane for entire trips on the M50 if I'm not in a rush or just don't feel like driving at 120kph.

Squirrel

Saw that both yesterday and today while driving back from Santry, oh the joys of leaving earlier

fletch

PhoenixRising wrote:

Yeah these 'pseudo' traffic jams are a regular feature now on the M50. Some professor in the UK did a study on it and it's all caused by cars in the fast lane not driving fast enough. It can be very annoying when you are sitting in a traffic jam wondering 'what the hell is causing this' and then it disappears just a half mile up the road. Well it's all caused by idiots using the fast lane but not driving fast enough. If people had better lane discipline there'd be no such thing as the pseudo traffic jam.

I remember seein some other theory whereby one driver brakes sharply and it causes a ripple effect down the motorway eventually causing the traffic to grind to a halt. I think the main cause of traffic jams on the M50 is people's inability to merge.
In heavy traffic I always keep well back & try let people merge but all you get is fellas screaming down the on-ramp & driving right up the ass of the car in front of me thus adding to the traffic problem because the car that was going to be able to merge using the gap I had left them now has nowhere to go and has to come to a complete stand-still

PhoenixRising wrote:

If you don't feel like driving at 120kph use the slow lane and stay there.

Here here....nothing more annoying than sittin behind a train of traffic all sitting in the outside lane doing <100kph!

kittenkiller

PhoenixRising wrote:

Some professor in the UK did a study on it and it's all caused by cars in the fast lane not driving fast enough.... Well it's all caused by idiots using the fast lane but not driving fast enough. If people had better lane discipline there'd be no such thing as the pseudo traffic jam.

On the M50 it's NOT A FAST LANE!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's an over-taking lane!
Learn some road etiquette for gods sakes!

It's only meant to be used for the minimum amount of time while passing someone out & then you're meant to return to the main lane like good little children & let others pass YOU out if hey feel it necessary!

It is NOT a fast lane!

samo

kittenkiller wrote:

On the M50 it's NOT A FAST LANE!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's an over-taking lane!
Learn some road etiquette for gods sakes!

It's only meant to be used for the minimum amount of time while passing someone out & then you're meant to return to the main lane like good little children & let others pass YOU out if hey feel it necessary!

It is NOT a fast lane!

Its also not a lane to be sitting in at 100 kph (if your on a 120 kph stretch) and until your exit comes up as it is frequently is treated - also causing an obstruction to faster moving traffic. But given that most drivers drive at 90-100 kph (again on a 120kph motorway) its not surprising that the over taking lane is trated as a fast lane instead and that drivers dont move back into the left lane.


EDIT/

And to think I said I would NEVER comment on an inside/outside/left/right /overtaking/slow lane debate again...!!!!

PhoenixRising

kittenkiller wrote:

It is NOT a fast lane!

Please excuse my loose use of the term.

kittenkiller

Excused

saobh_ie

I noticed that today as well, it was my first time on the motorway, just passed the test and couldn't figure out why everybody was going so slow. I didn't see the ferris wheel however because I was splitting... =]

Ah. Bikes. Why doesn't everyone have one. But yeah, even when you get empty road there's people driving well below the limit and then with everyone behind hammering out of the toll booths up to 160 or whatever then coming up behind these people travelling 100 or less.

Or you get two people travelling 100km'h side by side and the guy in the offside lane won't speed up and move in or slow down and move in. Gah, silly, boring, annoying useless road.

And they only built it with two lanes. There's N roads with three lanes in places. The M50 should have been built with 4 or 5 lanes on each side. Lets see people try and block that up.

DubTony

The Square, Blanchardstown, Liffey Valley, Dundrum, and now a poxy carnival.

"Lets go to the carnival, you can see it from the M50 so you must be able to get to it from there."

"Daddy, are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

"Just a minute kids, I can't seem to find the turn off this big road onto the carnival road. I'll slow down here near the ferris wheel, maybe there's a gate."

Jeeee-sus

Nuttzz

Stekelly wrote:

. All these idiots were actually slowing down to a near stop to look at the big wheel at a carnival.

How does it enter into anyones head to stop in the middle of a motorway for suh a ridiculous reason. In any country with a bit of cop these people would be arrested. Honestly, the mentality of some people astounds me.

sadly its being going on since last tuesday when they started to put the thing up

AMurphy

Stekelly wrote:

......All these idiots were actually slowing down to a near stop to look at the big wheel at a carnival.

.......QUOTE]

Welcome to the concept of the "rubber neck". Par for the course really, you do not need a crash, etc to cause a backup on a highway any longer, just a good diversion.
Had the powers that be (Dub Council, Police, etc) in touch with reality, the new reality, they would not have allowed such an item be seen from the highway.

I know a guy, that drives a "billboard truck" for a living. One one occasion he got a warning to shift his truck from a McDonalds parking lot, (or at least hide it), as it was causing a backup on the adjacent highway.

bonzai bob

i noticed this wheel on my way to work yesterday, i got to admit i did look at it but i didn't slow down. But then again the M50 tends to be quite empty at 5.30am.

Can't see why they'd put something like that right next to the M50, you'll most likely get some knackers on the thing throwing stuff onto the M50:rolleyes:

And as far as the whole 'fast lane' 'overtaking lane' goes. People REALLY need to lighten up about that!!

lomb

people definately need to lighten up about it. i use the 'fast' lane as exactly that, to go fast and i pull in to let cars past if there is no bunch of cars ahead and someone is coming up quickly from behind. i know the rules of the road and i know what the lane is supposed to be used for but thats just a theory not practice.
9/10 there is a bunch of cars ahead all doing the legal limit and i wouldnt even let michael schumacher past me tbh

tbh, my main gripe is at where roads join motorways no one ever pulls into the fast lane to let the traffic filter in , instead u have to dodge between cars. in the uk everyone pulls over to the right. thats the difference between two countries and also the speedlimit on dual carraigeways being 70 mph and not 62

deRanged

lomb wrote:

tbh, my main gripe is at where roads join motorways no one ever pulls into the fast lane to let the traffic filter in , instead u have to dodge between cars. in the uk everyone pulls over to the right. thats the difference between two countries and also the speedlimit on dual carraigeways being 70 mph and not 62

You'll see it in France/Germany too (cars moving out to allow cars to filter in safely) - I put it down to more experience with motorways and better teaching.

BrianD3

Rubbernecking delays are just part of the "joy of motoring" I don't think there's anything that can be done to stop them, humans are naturally curious and always going to slow down a bit to look at things that catch their eye - anything from ferris wheels, low flying aircraft, crashed or broken down vehicles etc.

Also, if drivers left enough distance between them and the car in front rubbernecking delays would be minimized. Because there would be less of a domino effect when the car at the front of a line of traffic slows down to rubberneck.

DubTony

lomb wrote:

tbh, my main gripe is at where roads join motorways no one ever pulls into the fast lane to let the traffic filter in , instead u have to dodge between cars. in the uk everyone pulls over to the right. thats the difference between two countries and also the speedlimit on dual carraigeways being 70 mph and not 62

I am constantly amazed at how many people pull into the outside lane to allow traffic enter the motorway even when there's absolutely no need to.

There's no requirement in law to pull out to allow traffic to enter. Cars on an on-ramp should adjust their speed accordingly. Ok, when the road is busy and there are idiots bumper to bumper at 100k it can be difficult and someone pulling out is appreciated. But pulling into the outside lane to allow car access to a motorway is simply a courtesy.

Too many inexperienced drivers have been told to pull out when they see something entering the motorway, but don't speed up to ensure they aren't slowing down traffic from behind. They don't seem to understand that it'll take 5 seconds to get to that point and that the entering car will already be gone. They don't realise that the ghost island is there to seperate traffic until the access point and they shouldn't be moving out until close to the end of that. Some don't even check the mirror or use the indicator. It's a tunnel vision thing. They think they're doing good and being nice drivers.

Having said that, that nice driver decides that the Beemer or Merc that has suddenly "appeared out of nowhere" in the rear view mirror "can sit there and wait until I'm ready to pull back in ... if I ever do."

bonzai bob wrote:

And as far as the whole 'fast lane' 'overtaking lane' goes. People REALLY need to lighten up about that!!

Haven't you noticed? The overtaking lane has more traffic in it than the driving lane. Obviously people have lightened up about it already.

bonzai bob

DubTony wrote:

There's no requirement in law to pull out to allow traffic to enter. Cars on an on-ramp should adjust their speed accordingly. Ok, when the road is busy and there are idiots bumper to bumper at 100k it can be difficult and someone pulling out is appreciated. But pulling into the outside lane to allow car access to a motorway is simply a courtesy.

I actually think this is the reason, i often pull into the outside lane when traffic is joining the M50 but ONLY because i know that traffic DOES NOT adjust their speed. Which is another thing i just do not get!!! I'm constantly stuck behind these people driving at 50MPH while about to come onto a motorway!!!:mad: I mean, ffs!! If you weren't going so ****in slow i'd be able to pull in but i can't do that because i'll most likely be back ended by another car, BECAUSE OF YOU!!!

Sorry, rant over.

hussey

I used the m4 this weekend (my first motorway apart from m50) and I was shocked people actually used this road correctly!
doing about 100-110 in the left when I came up to a car moved right hit 120 over took and moved left again, and nearly all the cars followed this protocol - unlike the m50 where all I see is the same lines doing same speed !!

DubTony

bonzai bob wrote:

I actually think this is the reason, i often pull into the outside lane when traffic is joining the M50 but ONLY because i know that traffic DOES NOT adjust their speed. Which is another thing i just do not get!!! I'm constantly stuck behind these people driving at 50MPH while about to come onto a motorway!!!:mad: I mean, ffs!! If you weren't going so ****in slow i'd be able to pull in but i can't do that because i'll most likely be back ended by another car, BECAUSE OF YOU!!!

Sorry, rant over.

Jesus. Hope you weren't directing that at me

DubTony

hussey wrote:

I used the m4 this weekend (my first motorway apart from m50) and I was shocked people actually used this road correctly!
doing about 100-110 in the left when I came up to a car moved right hit 120 over took and moved left again, and nearly all the cars followed this protocol - unlike the m50 where all I see is the same lines doing same speed !!

Simple explanation for the lack of discipline on the M50 is that it's just too bloody busy. Can you imagine if a bunch of cars on that road obeyed the 2 second rule. With cars entering from the left and filling the gaps you'd feel like you were going fúcking backwards.
Driving on a motorway where everyone follows the rules can be a real joy.

blastman

I agree merging speed is a problem, I'm constantly bewildered by drivers driving down the on-ramp at Blanchardstown to the M50 at 50mph or less, wondering how the hell they expect to merge at that speed (presuming it's one of the occasions there isn't a carpark at the bottom of the hill.......)

Guy:Incognito

AMurphy wrote:

Stekelly wrote:

......All these idiots were actually slowing down to a near stop to look at the big wheel at a carnival.

.......QUOTE]

Welcome to the concept of the "rubber neck". Par for the course really, you do not need a crash, etc to cause a backup on a highway any longer, just a good diversion.
Had the powers that be (Dub Council, Police, etc) in touch with reality, the new reality, they would not have allowed such an item be seen from the highway.

I know a guy, that drives a "billboard truck" for a living. One one occasion he got a warning to shift his truck from a McDonalds parking lot, (or at least hide it), as it was causing a backup on the adjacent highway.

Ive come accross it many times driving in Germany, but it seems to be more of the car in front breaking heavily and causing a ripple. Slowing to a near stop to look at half a big wheel (trees cover half) is just idiotic. The guards may as well set up a tax/insurance checkpoint as it wouldnt cause any additional delay.

AMurphy wrote:

Had the powers that be (Dub Council, Police, etc) in touch with reality, the new reality, they would not have allowed such an item be seen from the highway..

exactly. Once can be put down to a mistake but this is happening for a couple of years now.

Guy:Incognito

BrianD3 wrote:

Rubbernecking delays are just part of the "joy of motoring" I don't think there's anything that can be done to stop them, .

More efficient filtering of the "idiot" element of society. They're probably not contributing much to society anyway.

AMurphy

deRanged wrote:

..... - I put it down to more experience with motorways and better teaching.

I put it down to a few things,
poor driving skills all round,
This is my lane and I'll not budge from it, nor will I make it any easier for you to merge.
Poor merging techniques, ie, pulling directly from the merge onramp lane into the driving lane at much too slow a speed, or the second car and often faster, jumping out and trying to pass the other merging vehicle, etc.
Vehicles clumped too close, so no room between them for the merging vehicle.

thatkindofgirl

I agree. Motorway driving here is a joke after driving in the UK.

fletch

hussey wrote:

I used the m4 this weekend (my first motorway apart from m50) and I was shocked people actually used this road correctly!
doing about 100-110 in the left when I came up to a car moved right hit 120 over took and moved left again, and nearly all the cars followed this protocol - unlike the m50 where all I see is the same lines doing same speed !!

Yeh whats with that!? I notice a huge difference in the quality of lane discipline on these two motorways.
I think its to do with the fact that people use the M50 to commute/travel around Dublin when they are not used to long distance driving & having to overtake etc....
On the M4, in general, people are travelling long distances, like Galway, Sligo etc....so know the correct procedure for overtaking

jackal

There are three main problems contributing to the problems on the M-50. Education, capacity and ****.

Note: Fast lane == Overtaking lane == BMW lane

Education:
People in Ireland, and specifically Dublin drivers who never go outside Dublin are not educated about the motorways, and its not really their fault. Im sure there are country drivers just as bad too.

As someone else said, on a national motorway, you will learn quick enough what the protocol is, as the traffic is thinner and you can see what people are up to. People treat the M-50 like a dual carriageway, because they probably have never been on a proper motorway in their life.

Also, consider the training most drivers have to deal with motorways:

You are a provisional driver - you are not allowed on the motorway.
You do the test - there is no motorway section, you are no more qualified to go on a motorway than a provisional driver.
You pass the test - you are suddenly allowed to drive on the motorway.

Anyone see the problem here?

Capacity:
The slow lane on the M-50 is so chock-a-block, and full of *really* slow drivers that you would be in and out of the fast lane every 15 seconds if you stuck rigidly to the rules. 3 lanes would give a bit more leeway. The really slow people on the left, people sticking close to the limit in the middle, and the lunatics on the right. Happy days.

Two lanes works quite well when there is a moderate volume of traffic on the road, and are very suitable for national roads. A motorway as busy as the M-50 needs 3 or more lanes badly. The sooner, the better, the lower my blood pressure will be!

****:
One problem I see an awful lot on the M-50 is trucks overtaking other trucks, and taking a good minute to crawl past. I mean, whats the f***ing point? You can go 1 mile an hour faster than the other truck? Whoop-de-doo! Three lanes would probably help with this too. As well as that, you have the usual idiots: "stick to the limit in the fast lane" nazi's, along with their even more hated tag-team partners "match the speed of the guy beside me while im in the fast lane". Along with the endless variety of people who dont use mirrors/indicators etc, especially when making a dive from the fast lane to an slip road exit.

Some times you get one or more of the above and its very frustrating. However, driving at quieter times makes you realise the idea of the M-50, and how useful and stress-free it could be if the upped the capacity to deal with the huge amount of traffic now using it, as well as putting a simple 45 second ad on tv about what the protocols on the motorway are.

impr0v

jackal wrote:

...as well as putting a simple 45 second ad on tv about what the protocols on the motorway are.

There was one, it doesn't seem to have worked.

DubTony

impr0v wrote:

There was one, it doesn't seem to have worked.

Refresh my memory. Was it a one off 45 second ad or did they ever actually repeat it?

Simplest way to inform idiots that they shouldn't be in the overtaking lane is to use signage. The bridges over the motorways are not used for signage at all. In the UK this area is used to let people know what lane they should be in for a particular exit. A lot cheaper than gantries so I'm suprised our lot aren't using it.

Tack on some signs that say something like "DRIVE LEFT -|- PASS RIGHT" or "DRIVING LANE -|- OVERTAKING ONLY.

Couldn't be that difficult. At least then the real idiots will know they're doing something wrong and the morons who know better will know that everyone else knows that they know that they shouldn't be out there.

jackal

When was that? I certainly havent seen one since I started driving - 4 years now.

Alun

jackal wrote:

When was that? I certainly havent seen one since I started driving - 4 years now.

I remember seeing them on the telly about 4 years ago (what a coincidence). There was one about lane discipline on motorways / dual carriageways, and another, believe it or not, about signalling on roundabouts. They were only on for a short time, and I've not seen sight nor sound of them since.

jackal

Might have more of an impact now that people in general are more aware of road safety and more accepting of campaigns. And that is a coincidence. Were they on for long or would you classify it as a token effort?

HelterSkelter

DubTony wrote:

I am constantly amazed at how many people pull into the outside lane to allow traffic enter the motorway even when there's absolutely no need to.

I pull into the outside lane because 90% of the time the car coming onto the motorway will be going slower than me (especially if it's an aul one in a silver yaris!), so it's easier to pull into the outside lane and overtake them.

Alun

jackal wrote:

Might have more of an impact now that people in general are more aware of road safety and more accepting of campaigns. And that is a coincidence. Were they on for long or would you classify it as a token effort?

They were only on for a matter of a month or two if I recall correctly, and I've not seen them since.

mackerski

lomb wrote:

people definately need to lighten up about it. i use the 'fast' lane as exactly that, to go fast and i pull in to let cars past if there is no bunch of cars ahead and someone is coming up quickly from behind. i know the rules of the road and i know what the lane is supposed to be used for but thats just a theory not practice.

Who decided it was just a theory? Last time I looked it was law.

lomb wrote:

9/10 there is a bunch of cars ahead all doing the legal limit and i wouldnt even let michael schumacher past me tbh

So you have time for at least one of the road traffic laws? Obviously the speed limit isn't "just a theory" like that malarky about keeping left. Methinks it may be about time the points system was further extended...

Dermot

AMurphy

jackal wrote:

......
****:
One problem I see an awful lot on the M-50 is trucks overtaking other trucks, and taking a good minute to crawl past. I mean, whats the f***ing point? ......
However, driving at quieter times makes you realise the idea of the M-50, and how useful and stress-free it could be if the upped the capacity to deal with the huge amount of traffic now using it, as well as putting a simple 45 second ad on tv about what the protocols on the motorway are.

Then you get the other wanker (also usualy in a BMW, Saab, GTI, or a Hurry to Nowhere.) ie you are passing the said train of trucks, 2 or 3, lets say briskly, not ripping up the tarmac, nor at snails pace, when up behind comes the 90mph BMSaabGti, and lays on the lights, horns, both hands off the steering wheel aping..... you finally give in to the threats, let them past and right ahead of you is a red traffic light or the end of the highway or stalled traffic.. whatever. So after all that, there ye are again, bumper to bumper. Talk about lack of vision?.

3 lanes would not only be nice but very useful as you suggest, but given it took only 20+ years to get from 0 to 2, I think you may have to wait till you become grey haired and drive a Yaris.

It might take 45 minutes in a classroom to get the point across, not 45 sec during the ads when everyone is heading for the WC anyway.

DubTony

mackerski wrote:

So you have time for at least one of the road traffic laws? Obviously the speed limit isn't "just a theory" like that malarky about keeping left. Methinks it may be about time the points system was further extended...

Dermot

Actually Dermot, there's no need to extend it ....
A sample of the 66 penalties below from http://www.motornet.ie/MotoringLife/penaltypoints_flat_story.asp
Not sure how many of these were implemented but it's down below in red.

Title of offence On-The-Spot Court


Breaking speed restriction (limit) 2 4
Failure to yield right of way 2 4
Dangerous overtaking 2 5
Driving along or across median strip 1 3
Failure to stop at stop sign 2 4
Breach of lane markings (wandering) 1 3
Entering marked hatched area (yellow box) 1 3
Crossing solid white line 2 4
Failure to obey traffic lights 2 5
Poor driving at junction 1 3
Failure to comply with traffic sign 1 3

Failure to drive on left 1 3
Failure to keep left at certain signs 1 3

AMurphy

Based on that little sample, just about everyone must rack up a few unrecorded points per day?.

SouperComputer

AMurphy wrote:

Based on that little sample, just about everyone must rack up a few unrecorded points per day?.

LOL, reminds me of the song "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest!

DubTony

AMurphy wrote:

Based on that little sample, just about everyone must rack up a few unrecorded points per day?.

A few points ? There are people who'd get banned after driving half the length of the M50.

impr0v

DubTony wrote:

Refresh my memory. Was it a one off 45 second ad or did they ever actually repeat it?

I remember seeing it a few times, at least three years ago, but I can't remember when exactly. It was a short 30-45 second ad showing a car going through the motions of pulling out, overtaking another and pulling back in, and explained how this was good motorway etiquette. It was clear and concise and instantly forgettable. It seems Joe Public needs copious amounts of backseat gymnastics and/or drunken flowerbed destruction in order for him to remember an ad campaign.

EDIT: Link to a PDF copy of the 2002 National Safety Council annual review which says that the ads (motorway driving, safe overtaking, and two roundabout ones) were '..used intensively over a two month period in 2002 and proved to be a very effective counterpoint to the hard hitting TV commercials.'

AMurphy

DubTony wrote:

A few points ? There are people who'd get banned after driving half the length of the M50.

I'd believe you and they have a few cousins here also.

Macy

HelterSkelter wrote:

I pull into the outside lane because 90% of the time the car coming onto the motorway will be going slower than me (especially if it's an aul one in a silver yaris!), so it's easier to pull into the outside lane and overtake them.

That's the correct thing to do as well, if it's safe to do so. People in the overtaking lane should be aware of that coming up to a junction.

mackerski

DubTony wrote:

Actually Dermot, there's no need to extend it ....
A sample of the 66 penalties below from http://www.motornet.ie/MotoringLife/penaltypoints_flat_story.asp
Not sure how many of these were implemented but it's down below in red.

Yes, I know about that list of penalties, but as you hint, there are only, I think, three of them actually in effect. As we've seen above, uneven prioritisation of the various offences has a very serious effect on the motoring public, leading one motorist in this particular case to conclude that some of the offences are actually just theories.

Dermot

a_ominous

Guide to penalty points, at Penalty Points.ie.

jackal

Dermot, they are only offences if you are caught by the guards, apart from that its just an annoyance for other road users.

edmund_f

jackal wrote:

Dermot, they are only offences if you are caught by the guards, apart from that its just an annoyance for other road users.

Interesting outlook on life, more accurate is that you will only get punished if you get caught, it is always an offence?

blastman

edmund_f wrote:

Interesting outlook on life, more accurate is that you will only get punished if you get caught, it is always an offence?

If a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one around, etc.....