ipod Vs iriver?

Easily_Irritated

Im trying to decide whether to get an ipod or iriver Mp3 player. Im still using a cruddy 128mb from years ago and the lack of space is irritating.

I've heard some bad reports about the battery life on ipods. Can I get some opinions?

rymus

get an iriver. ive had an 40gb ihp-140 for ages and it hasnt caused me any problems. Playback is excellent as is recording. Radio could be improved but overall it's a decent package for less than you'll pay for an ipod of the same capacity. You could even have the best of both worlds... get an iriver and some white headphones!

I know anyway if my iriver died in some horrible accident I'd have no second thoughts about buying another one.

bounty_hunter

Too busy to explain, but iRiver all the way!
There's just no comparison.

peterk19

I have both a 20gig 4th gen ipod and an iriver h320 go for the iriver far superior in every way unless you just want it for style then get the ipod
Pete

Creamy Goodness

Having owning both (iPod then an iRiver) I think they are both good players but the iRiver wins it for me.

Here are some of the reasons why I changed to iRiver.

1. Plug and play capability no need for iTunes, just copy and paste mp3's over.
2. Taking mp3's back off the iRiver is the same as putting them on (same can't be said for the iPod - they are stored away in hidden folders and also their filenames get changed).
3. Longer battery life, i get 15 hours out of my iRiver as opposed to the 4 hours out of my 3rd gen iPod.
4. The voice recording feature - not that I use it much - but it's there if I need it.
5. The remote - of the iRiver - is top class.
6. Much better earphones supplied with the iRiver you get rebranded sennheisers, whereas with the iPod you get shoddy white pieces of dried dog poop.
7. Filetypes - iPod can only play mp3, aac, m4a (i think), iRiver can play more like ogg and wma etc.

There's also a line in on the iRiver which I'm not 100% sure what it does but they wouldn't put it there if it didn't do anything. Don't think the iPod has got one of these.

I'm sure there are other reasons aswell, but the iRiver clearly wins it for me, sure the iPod is good but it's only good as one thing an mp3 player, whereas the iRiver is more functional

Ozzy

I was looking for a decent mp3 player last week, ended up ordering an iRiver... h320 i think it is.
I ordered it last Tuesday 31st (shipped on the 3rd, should arrive soon ) from these chaps http://www.mx2.co.uk/ they're the cheapest i know of - £190
- 282 euro isn't goddamn cheap, it better be good!

I've heard nothing but good though. Only, I think you can't make on-the-go playlists, which is a shame... and it looks really crap from the pictures in my opinion. But I'm going for function here, it's not like i'm going to go around waving my goddamn mp3 player in people's faces.
The way I look at it is, all these peeps can't be wrong

Easily_Irritated

Thanks for the help guys iriver it is then.

astec123

We also have a huge support base. www.misticriver.net
We keep you up to date and support you all the way.

MartMax

iRiver H10 if style is your main concern.

But still it does not lack of capacity (comes in 1/5/6/20GB version), WMA/MP3/WAV with DRM support (no OGG support thou), voice recorder, FM Radio, picture/txt viewer. No video support as the big brother H320 has.

Have one of 5GB which was bought in Peats for €289, cheaper I guess now in Dixon. Yeah, it's not that cheap but it got style. More or less as small as SE T630 phones, a bit wider. The bigger the capacity, the bigger the size of the player.

Well if you wanna all around with iRiver and style is not a problem, go for H320. It's still handsome thou.

Good luck.

Nietzschean

Having owning both (iRiver then an ipod) I think they are both good players but the iPod wins it for me.

Here are some of the reasons why I like my Ipod Better.

1. Plug and play capability no need for iTunes, just copy and paste mp3's over. --- Increased library access speed due to lack of need to index fat32 file system on the fly

2. Taking mp3's back off the iRiver is the same as putting them on (same can't be said for the iPod - they are stored away in hidden folders and also their filenames get changed). -- 1 word ephpod , ipod plugin for winamp

3. Longer battery life, i get 15 hours out of my iRiver as opposed to the 4 hours out of my 3rd gen iPod. -- current gen of ipod/ipod mini's have ~18hrs batt life
4. The voice recording feature - not that I use it much - but it's there if I need it. -- i've had that on at least 4 of my mp3 players over the years, i've yet to use it.
5. The remote - of the iRiver - is top class. -- might be handy for some, i've never had the need...
6. Much better earphones supplied with the iRiver you get rebranded sennheisers, whereas with the iPod you get shoddy white pieces of dried dog poop. -- No arguements there, tho i never used me ipod ones after 30 seconds anyway...
7. Filetypes - iPod can only play mp3, aac, m4a (i think), iRiver can play more like ogg and wma etc. -- I never use ogg or wma so this limitation doesn't bother me...

There's also a line in on the iRiver which I'm not 100% sure what it does but they wouldn't put it there if it didn't do anything. Don't think the iPod has got one of these. -- Yet another feature that i've had on 4+ mp3 players and never used, people found it handy on MD players, but under normal circumstances on an mp3 player?..i haven't..

I'm sure there are other reasons aswell, but the iRiver clearly wins it for me, sure the iPod is good but it's only good as one thing an mp3 player, whereas the iRiver is more functional --- Though he's out to buy an mp3 player, so no point comparing it under features that he doesn't need/want which make the iriver sound fancier than it really is...


I'd go with ipod for 3 reasons (some of which really don't apply compared to the irivers) :
1. Size , my ipod mini is nice and small (yes i know storage is tiny, but i've had the bigger size players and with usb2/firewire i really don't need to have 20% of my music with me rather than 5% it makes little difference)
2. Style, well they do look good..... (so common now its loosing points here)
3. Usability, best menu system's on any mp3 player, allbe them basic and lacking functionality i can still use it fully when pissed.......
4. Accessory availablity, well ipod is king in 3rd party suppliers having specific products created for it, some great toy's for car's now so ye can control ur ipod using the car stereo.
5. i'm sure there's more but early...

At any one time i usually have 3 mp3 players on me which would be in order of preference :
1. ipod
2. pma 430 (primary function is a video player tho)
3. nokia 6230 (primary function obviously a phone)

Diarmuid

I have to agree with Darth Bobo. Although I'm not sure his 18hrs claim is accurate, I think they are rated at 12hrs. The menuing system and usability of the iPod really beats all other players hands down. My friend has a iriver (dont know the model name 20gig jobbie) and it's the small things that annoy me. Startup times seem like ages when you have used the iPod. If you want to seek in a track the iRiver takes ages, it doesnt seem to have the "accelleration" feature of the iPod wheel. The size, the Ipod is just smaller and neater.

Personlly I dont have iTunes installed on my computer. winamp + iPod plugin is all I need. It also allows me to copy mp3's from the iPod back onto my computer (not that I have actually used that feature)

I'm sure some people have uses for line in/ microphones /ogg playback, but I don't.

Th iPod earphones are crap, however I have never bought a CD player/ walkman/mp3 player and kept the stock headphones.

Each to his own but if you think the hard drive based mp3 player market is dominated (over 80% I last read) by iPods just because they are "cool" then you are kidding yourself.

PiE

Diarmuid wrote:

I have to agree with Darth Bobo. Although I'm not sure his 18hrs claim is accurate, I think they are rated at 12hrs.

I think it's 18hrs for 128kbps files. The higher the bitrate of the mp3s the quicker the battery dies.

Startup times seem like ages when you have used the iPod.

It does take a while. Disabling the database can help, but Rockbox is gonna be the solution before too long, especially now that audio is working on it.

If you want to seek in a track the iRiver takes ages, it doesnt seem to have the "accelleration" feature of the iPod wheel.

You can change the scan speed in the settings.

Each to his own but if you think the hard drive based mp3 player market is dominated (over 80% I last read) by iPods just because they are "cool" then you are kidding yourself.

Might not be the only one, but it's a damn big factor in their popularity.


Whatever about never using the features on the iRiver, why not have them?

Also, Apple aint doing 40gig iPod's anymore.

rsynnott

Easily_Irritate wrote:

I've heard some bad reports about the battery life on ipods. Can I get some opinions?

There were serious problems with the battery life on the original iPod mini. They doubled it for the new one. (new chipset)

Diarmuid

PiE wrote:

Might not be the only one, but it's a damn big factor in their popularity.

Yes their styling is one of the reasons they are popular. That's not a bad thing you know!

PiE wrote:

Whatever about never using the features on the iRiver, why not have them?

Cause you are paying for stuff you're never going to use. Give the choice in having an mp3 player that's 60% smaller (10.4 by 6.1 by 1.4cm vs 103 x 62.1 x 22.5 mm) with a more user friendly interface vs having a microphone I'll never use I know what I am going for

astec123

Diarmuid your not comparing like for like here

iPod mini and H10
iPod 4th gen/ipod photo and H340/320

In those stakes the size is nearly the same. Plus the H300s have video playback, ogg support and much more beyond the iPods feature list all for a mere frew extra mm in each direction.

rymus

Diarmuid wrote:

Cause you are paying for stuff you're never going to use.

Yeah but by all accounts you still end up paying less for an iriver over a comparitive spec'd ipod.

Wertz

I've decided to dodge both brands and go for the new sony hd-5h.
I can live with sonic stage and DRM for somethig that looks and sounds as good as this.

30gb and 40hr battery life for a few € more than the 20gb iPod or iRiver.

rymus

well.. theres always one! :rolleyes:

Wertz

rymus wrote:

well.. theres always one! :rolleyes:

What...a non-conformist or a Sony fanboi

I've tried a few iPods in shops, and belonging to mates and they just lack the punch that both this and the earlier HD-3 have, in the sound department. The iRiver sounded better than the iPod but like other's I have no need for external recording or a tuner.
IMO it doesn't matter who makes it or what it looks like, if it doesn't sound good to begin with. The Rio Carbon had some quality sound too but 5gb isn't going to last long...

PiE

That looks awful.

Goldstein

Sony have been stretching reality a bit with the hd5:

Screen rotates depending on orientation of player "to follow your every move"
It doesn't. The g-sensor only takes a reading when the unit is turned on, so it'll be stuck in whatever orientation it's turned on at until you turn it off and on again. This "feature" is not only misleading but also in a practical sense, pointless. The function buttons change too (Again only when turned on) but only the center playback buttons change, the other 4 stay as they are. How confusing could that get? And finally, it gets confused when it's on its back or upside-down. This feature is so badly designed it's almost a liability.

"40 hour playback"
(When using ATRAC3plus format at 48Kbps, yes that's 48Kbps). The industry standard is usually quoted for MP3 at 128Kbps. The real figure is still very impressive at 30 hours.

"30 Gig version - Stores up to 20,000 songs / 20 Gig version - 13,000 songs"
Not on my planet. Again they've quoted ATRAC3plus at 48Kbps. The usual figure is represented by MP3 at 128Kbps. A realistic figure for this bitrate is around 4MB per song which would give the 20Gig version storage capacity for around 5,000 songs, not 13,000. The 30 Gig version would be around 7,500 songs, not 20,000. These are ridiculous figures to give.

"High speed USB Transfer"
Well it might be if you weren't restricted to SonicStage, which really slows down the transfer process.


Main Advantages:
30 hour playback
Weighs just 125 grams
Very small - 8.9 x 6 x 1.4 cm
Replaceable battery
Good quality headphones


Main Disadvantages:
Restricted to SonicStage
Only plays ATRAC or MP3
Relatively slow transfer speed
Interface - Just buttons, no sign of iPod clickwheel/iRiver h-10 touchpad like intuitive interface.
No colour LCD - Not a big deal but disappointing from a brand new player.
No real equaliser support for MP3 format, just for ATRAC3plus.
No line out

As an all round package I don't think it'll worry Apple or iRiver too much...yet. The good points are very impressive but some of the bad points are dealbreakers.

stuey

iRiver, iRiver, iRiver

People are saying you don;t have to use iTunes you just have to go and get plugins and winamp.

Fair enough, but if you go to another pc you have to bring winamp and your plugins with you!!

Plus a lot of the iRiver use standard usb cables. You can buy them anywhere and alot of people have them.

iTUnes is a pain in the hole. having to register the iPod as well. Complete pain.

You can buy an iRiver and take it out of the box charge it and be ready to go. No need for software. Nothing. Plug it in and your motoring. True plug and Play

Or you can buy an iPod, and realise its a pain in the hole. Anybody thats saying that an iPod is Plug and Play is sadly mistaken.And it only looks good.And most of the iRivers look very good nowadays anyway.

Diarmuid

astec123 wrote:

Diarmuid your not comparing like for like here

iPod mini and H10
iPod 4th gen/ipod photo and H340/320

In those stakes the size is nearly the same. Plus the H300s have video playback, ogg support and much more beyond the iPods feature list all for a mere frew extra mm in each direction.

I am comparing the two 20Gig models, I think that's fair :

Ipod 20Gig http://www.apple.com/uk/ipod/specs.html (10.4 by 6.1 by 1.4 - 88816mm3 )

Iriver H10 (20 Gig) http://www.iriver.at/harddisc_player.html?p_id=145&L=0&view=specifications
102 x 61 x 22 mm - 136885 mm3

whippet

stuey wrote:

Or you can buy an iPod, and realise its a pain in the hole. Anybody thats saying that an iPod is Plug and Play is sadly mistaken.And it only looks good.And most of the iRivers look very good nowadays anyway.

That is just a plain lie.

iPod is about as plug and play as you can possibly get. If you have a mac, you connect the cable into the iPod and the other end into the mac .. and it is installed. iTunes even launches automatically and it then can sync automatically. Installation time about 10 seconds.

On a PC, install iTunes (about 2 minutes) insert cables as above and it is installed.

What is your problem with iTunes?

Dundhoone

Can I shake this one up a bit and ask why no -one has mentioned the
Creative Zen? Or doesnt it rate?

From reviews i've read its supposed to be a better machine than the iPOD

Wertz

Goldstein wrote:

Sony have been stretching reality a bit with the hd5:

Screen rotates depending on orientation of player "to follow your every move"
It doesn't. The g-sensor only takes a reading when the unit is turned on, so it'll be stuck in whatever orientation it's turned on at until you turn it off and on again. This "feature" is not only misleading but also in a practical sense, pointless. The function buttons change too (Again only when turned on) but only the center playback buttons change, the other 4 stay as they are. How confusing could that get? And finally, it gets confused when it's on its back or upside-down. This feature is so badly designed it's almost a liability.

"40 hour playback"
(When using ATRAC3plus format at 48Kbps, yes that's 48Kbps). The industry standard is usually quoted for MP3 at 128Kbps. The real figure is still very impressive at 30 hours.

"30 Gig version - Stores up to 20,000 songs / 20 Gig version - 13,000 songs"
Not on my planet. Again they've quoted ATRAC3plus at 48Kbps. The usual figure is represented by MP3 at 128Kbps. A realistic figure for this bitrate is around 4MB per song which would give the 20Gig version storage capacity for around 5,000 songs, not 13,000. The 30 Gig version would be around 7,500 songs, not 20,000. These are ridiculous figures to give.

"High speed USB Transfer"
Well it might be if you weren't restricted to SonicStage, which really slows down the transfer process.


Main Advantages:
30 hour playback
Weighs just 125 grams
Very small - 8.9 x 6 x 1.4 cm
Replaceable battery
Good quality headphones


Main Disadvantages:
Restricted to SonicStage
Only plays ATRAC or MP3
Relatively slow transfer speed
Interface - Just buttons, no sign of iPod clickwheel/iRiver h-10 touchpad like intuitive interface.
No colour LCD - Not a big deal but disappointing from a brand new player.
No real equaliser support for MP3 format, just for ATRAC3plus.
No line out

As an all round package I don't think it'll worry Apple or iRiver too much...yet. The good points are very impressive but some of the bad points are dealbreakers.

Thanks Goldstein, but I don't make a habit of going out and spending 300+ quid without doing my homework
Since I've been a minidisc advocate the past 3 years, my only mp3s are downloaded stuff....I still have 300-400 cds to put onto a player and it may as well be in low bitrate Atrac3 as anything.
There's no doubt sonic stage is subpar, but then I've heard bad things about iTunes too (never used it personally). The only positive side is that I only have to use the s/w to upload from discs once...I'm already used to that with netMD.

One thing that is bugging me about the HD-5 is reports of cracks in the + shaped button on some players. There's talk of sony issuing a recall. I'm half considering the HD-3 which has lowered in price since. Both players are superior in the audio department as far as I'm concerned, especially with the AVLS turned off.
No doubt sony are still playing catch up in the HDD player market but I'm willing to patronise them as I've yet to have one of their audio/visual products fail me in nearly 20 years of using them...

Oh and to whoever mentioned the Zen; nice player...cheaper than the other 2 and supposedly better s/w. But we're only discussing the ipod and iriver in this thread

muckwarrior

whippet wrote:

That is just a plain lie...

On a PC, install iTunes...

What is your problem with iTunes?

Eh, no its not a lie. How can it be fully plug and play if you need to install iTunes first?! With an iRiver you just plug it into any machine. Zero installation!

matrim

PiE wrote:

It does take a while. Disabling the database can help, but Rockbox is gonna be the solution before too long, especially now that audio is working on it.

A bit off topic, but does rockbox play mp3's now. I checked last week and it had some support for wav files. They also had mp3's decoding at 200%, but weren't able to get the audio.

When they get that finished it will completly eliminate the few annoyances I have with my iriver (no on-the-fly playlists, startup time and the fact that you need to have txt files in a TEXT folder).

Mutant_Fruit

whippet wrote:

On a PC, install iTunes (about 2 minutes) insert cables as above and it is installed.

That is the definition of NON-plugandplay. You have to install software for the player to work, therefore it is NOT plugandplay. Irivers can plug into any WinXP computer and work without any drivers to install, which is a huge advantage if you want to transfer files to and from work computers, friends laptops/computers or even different OS's.

On older Windows OS's, the OS has to have the Mass Storage Device driver installed, which will allow the OS to use USB sticks and iRivers without further software to be installed.

Irivers work on linux, macOS, Windows and every OS that supports USB. I cant say the same is true for iPods.

EDIT: Mp3, FLAC and Ogg files play back on the iRiver using rockbox. If you're willing to try it

falteringstar

Well I'm seriously considering getting rid of my iPod and buying a new iRiver H10, the red one's are quite sexy.

My reason is because i recently bought a semi-expensive new car stereo with a usb port on the front, specifically for the purpose of plugging in my iPod and listening to it.....guess what it wont work with the iPOd!!

I've been told it will work with the iRiver because that is a true mass storage device and is far more flexible....but to get some confirmation would be good, FYI the car stereo in question is a Goodmand GCE7205USB

rsynnott

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Irivers work on linux, macOS, Windows and every OS that supports USB. I cant say the same is true for iPods.

Really? Do you know of a modern mainstream operating system the iPod DOESN'T work on, then?

Nietzschean

Diarmuid wrote:

Each to his own but if you think the hard drive based mp3 player market is dominated (over 80% I last read) by iPods just because they are "cool" then you are kidding yourself.

Your kidding yourself if you think its anything else, 80+% of mp3 player consumers these days don't have the first clue about ogg or anything else half technical for that matter. Taking my college course out of 20 people 6 people have gotten mini-ipods since xmas, not one of those has noticed the lack of ogg support, or the limitations in itunes... But they all noticed how nice the ipod mini's look.

rsynnott

Darth Bobo wrote:

Your kidding yourself if you think its anything else, 80+% of mp3 player consumers these days don't have the first clue about ogg or anything else half technical for that matter. Taking my college course out of 20 people 6 people have gotten mini-ipods since xmas, not one of those has noticed the lack of ogg support, or the limitations in itunes... But they all noticed how nice the ipod mini's look.

The lack of ogg support isn't really very IMPORTANT for most people, tho. And the iPod UI is quite nice. On the other hand, the iRiver does provide a sink for the vast world M68K oversupply

Nietzschean

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Irivers work on linux, macOS, Windows and every OS that supports USB. I cant say the same is true for iPods.

Er dude, the ipods use the usb mass storage driver same as the irivers....


And if you talking about the transfer of mp3's, there are other applications than itunes, and you could easily keep one on the ipod itself. Thats just not a viable reason really imo. (several of which would not require administrator privlidges on windows to use)



And the biggest limitation to both iriver support and ipod support would be the availablity of a vfat/fat32 driver.....



And if your talking about windows, on either player windows hum's about arsing around with drivers before it allows you to use it, so technically neither driver is just plug in and play..... its just the drivers are built in.(on a slow machine that pause can take several minutes, its nasty on older laptops)
(good ole linux/bsd has no such slow down's thankfully)

Mutant_Fruit

rsynnott wrote:

Really? Do you know of a modern mainstream operating system the iPod DOESN'T work on, then?

I didn't think the ipod worked on linux. A quick google just proved me wrong.

Nietzschean

rsynnott wrote:

The lack of ogg support isn't really very IMPORTANT for most people, tho. And the iPod UI is quite nice. On the other hand, the iRiver does provide a sink for the vast world M68K oversupply

No, i was merely using it as an example of the fact that the vast majority of ipod users have no clue of its specs really just size of hd(and some don't know that) and battery life(some don't know this either, i've had to tell more than one).

and the M68K is loverly, nothing like M68K assembly to pass the day...

cormie

iRiver and RockBox are the perfect combination.

Rockbox is an opensource project of a new firmware for the iRiver.

It adds:
3 Second boot up
OTF Playlists
GAPLESS playback
GAMEBOY emulator

So much more aswell. Check it out at www.rockbox.org.

It's come a long way in the past few weeks. I have it installed on my iRiver and even though it is very buggy at this early stage, I can still greatly enjoy allot of the features. This is only available for the H1XX series at present but once it is fully developed for the H1XX, it should only be a short time before it is done for the H3XX.

iRiver = Best Hardware
Rockbox = Best Software


Now there is also the iAudio X5, if price is of no concern I would jump at it. Best player available to date.

rsynnott

http://ipodlinux.sourceforge.net

Mutant_Fruit

Darth Bobo wrote:

Er dude, the ipods use the usb mass storage driver same as the irivers....

Can i have a link for that please, can't seem to find one when i google for "ipod mass storage".

stuey

Darth Bobo wrote:

And if your talking about windows, on either player windows hum's about arsing around with drivers before it allows you to use it, so technically neither driver is just plug in and play..... its just the drivers are built in.(on a slow machine that pause can take several minutes, its nasty on older laptops)
(good ole linux/bsd has no such slow down's thankfully)

I cant believe you are still trying to argue the plug an play debate!!

Quite simply
iRiver - Plug it in windows queries it does a search for a driver, it install it done!! This is the same on windows xp\2k\me. Do i have to insert a cd - No. Do i have to go on the net or anywhere else to get drivers - No.
This is plug and play!!

iPod - I plug it in windows queries it does a search for a driver, can't install it. Have to get drivers or lash in a cd.
Not plug and play.

Going by what you said, if I get my pendrive and plug it into my pc for the first time, its going to have search fo the drivers but it will find them and it will install and work without an other drivers. But according to you is is not plug an play cause windows had to search for the driver it had!

Nietzschean

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Can i have a link for that please, can't seem to find one when i google for "ipod mass storage".

erm how about ye google a little harder then next time, :rolleyes:

googling : ipod usb mass storage device gave 187,000 links, one of which is....
http://www.answers.com/topic/usb-mass-storage-device-class


And if it didn't use the driver you'd know all about it, since you'd be required to install drivers to use it, which you arn't.

Nietzschean

stuey wrote:

iPod - I plug it in windows queries it does a search for a driver, can't install it. Have to get drivers or lash in a cd.
Not plug and play.

Uhhh, what kind of ipod are you referring to there? i've never come across one needing a driver... itunes likes to have some ipod files, but its not a requirement to use the device.


I dunno where you lot are finding these awkard ipods from, i've never seen one.

stuey

Darth Bobo wrote:

Uhhh, what kind of ipod are you referring to there? i've never come across one needing a driver... itunes likes to have some ipod files, but its not a requirement to use the device.


I dunno where you lot are finding these awkard ipods from, i've never seen one.

What i was refering to is the simple fact, that in order for me to stick music on an iPod and play it back, I have to stick on iTunes.

Nietzschean

stuey wrote:

What i was refering to is the simple fact, that in order for me to stick music on an iPod and play it back, I have to stick on iTunes.

you said driver, need i quote it again?

and we have covered the software issue, it is no hassle to include it on the ipod itself, something like ephpod should be able to be setup so no installing required at all and it just runs, heck if you like you could probally make it run when u plug in the device.

stuey

Let me ask you one question, which is easier to set up iPod or iRiver. Which one can i take out of the box and i mean player and cable only. Plug in to my windows pc xp\2k\me, let windows do whatever crap it has to do if any and use. Copy music to, and play back from the player. Which player?

Nietzschean

stuey wrote:

Let me ask you one question, which is easier to set up iPod or iRiver. Which one can i take out of the box and i mean player and cable only. Plug in to my windows pc xp\2k\me, let windows do whatever crap it has to do if any and use. Copy music to, and play back from the player. Which player?

That wasn't the question at hand, your just attempting to backtrack becasue your points have proved false.

And to answer your point, as i said in an earlier post its a trade off, the ipod's use of a database for holding info on the mp3's rather than indexing the fat32 file system on the fly gives better proformance but the obvious drawbacks.

But for me, i'd find little difference in using either, i keep apps to transfer stuff to the ipod on the ipod, so when it goes in i can just run them from the ipod itself. The difference in effort is negigble, infact i find it easier than navigating a horde of directories.


And as regards a new user taking one out, most new users don't require their ipod to go into several pc's for music transfer, so sync'n with the best library software going around (imo) does nicely for them. But it could be a drawback for some, anyone who know's enough to notice it can make an informed decision for themselves as wheither its worth it, so i don't think its really an issue. I personally like my ipod's menu responsiveness.

stuey

Easily_Irritate wrote:

Im trying to decide whether to get an ipod or iriver Mp3 player. Im still using a cruddy 128mb from years ago and the lack of space is irritating.

I've heard some bad reports about the battery life on ipods. Can I get some opinions?

There is the original question. My reply iRiver - because you can take it out of the box and use it. no fussin, no messin. + they look good (if looks matter), good battery life, easy to use.

But my overall reason for choosing the iRiver is the fact that you can take it out the box and use it straight away. That for me and i think a lot of users is a huge plus. And that is the point i have been arguing for.

Nietzschean

stuey wrote:

There is the original question. My reply iRiver - because you can take it out of the box and use it. no fussin, no messin. + they look good (if looks matter), good battery life, easy to use.

Yes, that wasn't what i was questioning, you were dragging up things already solved with random things that weren't true about the ipod.

But my overall reason for choosing the iRiver is the fact that you can take it out the box and use it straight away. That for me and i think a lot of users is a huge plus. And that is the point i have been arguing for.

Fair enough, thats your point of view, most of my m8's would consider using itunes more user friendly than actually moving files manually to the disk, you also have easy access to the itunes store. In fairness, its not like installing itunes is tough to being with....might be hassle, but it does alot of things all in one...which for an average home user would be more important imo.

PiE

Darth Bobo wrote:

Yes, that wasn't what i was questioning.

This is true. You were too busy being a pedantic gonk.

matrim wrote:

A bit off topic, but does rockbox play mp3's now

It does, but I don't think it's even reached beta yet. As cormie said there are still a lot of bugs to be fixed, but it's not too far away from being fully usable now.

when 4ever ends

wow all these things about installing drivers and stuff for ipods.. i just pluged my ipod in, it installed then transfered all my music.. took about 20 minuites. the ipod isrelaly easy to use and it also has more accesories being that it the most popuar mp3 player (which turns some people of) the UI on the ipod i think is also a lot better then the i river

may i make a suggestion to the creator of this thread and go try out each one.. then decide

Nietzschean

PiE wrote:

This is true. You were too busy being a pedantic gonk.

I may have been such, but considering the poster was clearing making ****e up to try get his point across i feel it was justified.