HIIT training: does it work?

Recon

Is HIIT(high intensity interval training) better then doing normal cardio? Anyone doing a HIIT program at the moment? How do you find it?

Transform

I use hiit training myself and with clients all the time and have done so for years. I find normal training soooo boring yet would not substitute cardio for it when it comes to weight training (HIT is also used for weights).

When using HIT for cardio i have had more clients overtrain using it than train correctly as they end up burned out.

nesf

I've always heard and thought that it is better for people who are already at a good fitness level and who are trying to push themselves to the next level.

For overweight or unfit people it was suggested that low intensity long duration cardio was the best approach.

Is this wrong or would you consider it fairly accurate? (I've not really researched it so I'm not sure about the issue)

Easygainer

I can see the merits in it in principle but in a Lee Priest article in Muscular Development he slated it. Basically his argument was that for hiit to be successful for a sustained period it requires progression. However, as the time is limited to max 20 mins (16 is longest program I´ve seen) there is only so much progression you can humanly accomplish. Also, as transform said, when dieting ou are particularly susceptible to overtraining and hiit would contribute to this.

Finally studies have shown NO significant difference between post exercise metabolism rate and metabolism of fats between hiit and regular cardio.

Granted cardio is boring as hell when done at 60-70% MHR but I´ve yet to find a better way of burning just fat, not carbs and muscle, without resorting to drugs...

poobum

Recon wrote:

Is HIIT(high intensity interval training) better then doing normal cardio? Anyone doing a HIIT program at the moment? How do you find it?

you need to have a good base to work off before you do this for it to work best.

RonanC

Easygainer wrote:

Granted cardio is boring as hell when done at 60-70% MHR but I´ve yet to find a better way of burning just fat, not carbs and muscle, without resorting to drugs...

Sprinting :cool:

It:
- improves substrate utilisation
- hastens glycogen depletion, thus ensuring FFAs are more freely available for oxidation
- augments nutrient partioning
- increases VO2 uptake (thereby possibly improving performance in the weight room?)

Two sprinting sessions (8-12 x 100m sprints; 3 x 400m sprints) weekly shouldn't lead to overtraining and could ideally (when dieting for example) be used with an additional two longer duration, moderate intensity cardio sessions.

Oh, and Lee Priest is a genetic freak whose techniques should never be used a barometer for any type of training for us mere mortals. He never even trains abs allegedly

RonanC

Easygainer wrote:

Finally studies have shown NO significant difference between post exercise metabolism rate and metabolism of fats between hiit and regular cardio.

The first article in particular is worth a read:

...that fifteen weeks of HIIT training resulted in a significantly more pronounced reduction in subcutaneous adiposity compared to the ET (‘endurance training’) control group despite its lower energy cost. When corrected for the energy cost of training, the decrease in the sum of six subcutaneous skin folds induced by the HIIT program was nine fold greater than by the ET program....

Tremblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C. Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8.

Vollestad NK, Blom PC. Effect of varying exercise intensity on glycogen depletion in human muscle fibres. Acta Physiol Scand. 1985 Nov;125(3):395-405.

Transform

For gods sake how many times do we have to have a debate on the higher intensity versus lower intensity!!

Workout at 60-65% OF MAX HR (220 minus age) for the majority of the cardio workouts

Now for if most people struggle to even get 2 workouts in A WEEK i really do NOT think they should even consider HIT

RonanC

Not a fan of peer-reviewed articles then I take it?

Easygainer

RonanC wrote:

Not a fan of peer-reviewed articles then I take it?

For those two studies there are ten saying the opposite, I'm just going by experience and common sense. There are studies showing HIT (mentzer style) works for God's sake.

Granted Priest doesn't train abs and is a muscle building freak but, having seen his off season pics, he's no Dexter when it comes to metabolism so he should know a bit about cardio.

Personally, I do the same type of Cardio as Ronnie - high incline treadmill 25+ (as high as 45) at low speed, round 4-5 kph. I keep heartrate in target and conserve muscle best this way. I'm fairly shredded at the moment so not gonna argue with what's working for myself anyway.

joc_06

Easygainer wrote:

I'm fairly shredded at the moment so not gonna argue with what's working for myself anyway.

Anychance youd tell us ur stats? Bf? Pics? Do you compete?

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

Anychance youd tell us ur stats? Bf? Pics? Do you compete?

Have I not met you before? Lol

At the moment I'm 90kg and had body stat done a few weeks ago, was 83kg lbm, so under 10%. Don't take measurements, go by mirror, but going by clothes I've a 32" waist and 46" chest. Both those figures were, respectively, 38 and 52 when I was powerlifting - I'm at the end of an arduous diet now!

Putting on muscle over summer starting in a few weeks so aiming for 100kg region with similar bodyfat, I'll post some pics in a while, for now I don't know how to get around Windows XP security

joc_06

whered you get body stat done? My only scales are the lidl ones and they tell me 12.5% regardless how much fat i have. Can clearly see a 6 pack and almost the bottom 2 so i rekon im about the 10% mark really.

Are you a powerlifter or bb'er? I set a Pr of 100kg clean and jerk the other day. im 82kg and self taught so its a decent lift imo. I never really try to bulk at all. Only put on lean mass and even at 82kg i think im even a bit heavy.

Oh btw i mite get some more protein off u soon. choc mint flavour this time. next week some time.

poobum

joc_06 wrote:

whered you get body stat done? My only scales are the lidl ones and they tell me 12.5% regardless how much fat i have. Can clearly see a 6 pack and almost the bottom 2 so i rekon im about the 10% mark really.

Are you a powerlifter or bb'er? I set a Pr of 100kg clean and jerk the other day. im 82kg and self taught so its a decent lift imo. I never really try to bulk at all. Only put on lean mass and even at 82kg i think im even a bit heavy.

Oh btw i mite get some more protein off u soon. choc mint flavour this time. next week some time.

lifting 100 when your own weight is 82...nice! quite impressive!iv got the top 2 of the six pack only...finding it hard to shed as i can just diet im trying to gain serious muscle mass! any tips on a diet that allows both fat loss and mucscle building?

joc_06

try www.forum.bodybuilding.com in the nutrition section.

Theres loads to learn about a clean diet but the main 1 really is to lose weight and keep muscle take in less calories than you need and make sure you get loads and loads of protein. Cardio @ low speed for ages help lose fat too but you also become a slow runner as your muscles will "memorize" the speed you train at.
Another good tip is to keep a journal with weight 3times a day and all food eaten and exercise.
And prolly the best tip is to have a high carb "cheat " day once a week to stop you going mad but also to replenish glycogen (i think, not sure of the science of this but its gr8 to look forward to)

The main thing keeping me back for lifting more is my technique and my wrists. I play hurling so i cant afford the sprained wrists that i know id get with the front squat. Also i dont yet get down low enough after the initial pull. I've no trouble with the overhead press but i still havnt got a good split. I just bend my knees and push as opposed to split. Prob wrong way to go about it but i know of no coach so its the best i can do

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

whered you get body stat done? My only scales are the lidl ones and they tell me 12.5% regardless how much fat i have. Can clearly see a 6 pack and almost the bottom 2 so i rekon im about the 10% mark really.

Are you a powerlifter or bb'er? I set a Pr of 100kg clean and jerk the other day. im 82kg and self taught so its a decent lift imo. I never really try to bulk at all. Only put on lean mass and even at 82kg i think im even a bit heavy.

Oh btw i mite get some more protein off u soon. choc mint flavour this time. next week some time.

In my gym... I find the test good because it is brutal. I've also been using the same one since I was over 25% bf so I have a consistent backdrop for my progress. It's one of those electric ones where they attach pads at toes and fingers and you lie down... Seems fairly good cos it has shut up a few ppl in the gym, especially some young nob who claims to be 10% and came out at 22% :rolleyes:

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

try www.forum.bodybuilding.com in the nutrition section.

Theres loads to learn about a clean diet but the main 1 really is to lose weight and keep muscle take in less calories than you need and make sure you get loads and loads of protein. Cardio @ low speed for ages help lose fat too but you also become a slow runner as your muscles will "memorize" the speed you train at.
Another good tip is to keep a journal with weight 3times a day and all food eaten and exercise.
And prolly the best tip is to have a high carb "cheat " day once a week to stop you going mad but also to replenish glycogen (i think, not sure of the science of this but its gr8 to look forward to)

The main thing keeping me back for lifting more is my technique and my wrists. I play hurling so i cant afford the sprained wrists that i know id get with the front squat. Also i dont yet get down low enough after the initial pull. I've no trouble with the overhead press but i still havnt got a good split. I just bend my knees and push as opposed to split. Prob wrong way to go about it but i know of no coach so its the best i can do

I have a book on O-lifting if you want to borrow it next time I meet you? Just remind me to bring it out, it explains all the lifts including assistance lifts, has pictures and programs etc. Pretty good.

BTW my best lifts as a teen were 227.5/157.5/230 (sq/be/dl) - haven't dl'ed heavy since I screwed up my sciatic nerve in 03 though.

joc_06

kilos? Fvck me. thats mighty impressive lifting. im still struggling to get upto 200 on the squat

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

kilos? Fvck me. thats mighty impressive lifting. im still struggling to get upto 200 on the squat

Use 5x 5 or 3x3 for squats depending on body type. Works great for strength and gives decent size. And of course, I go below parallel!!!

joc_06

obviously i always mix it up but 5x5 and 3x3 are my staple training routine. And i dont count a squat as a squat unless its ass to the grass so to speak. quarter and half squats have their place too but not too often.
i rarely dead lift heavy weight tho. glute ham raises and hypers are much better i find and less chance of injury.
they are unbelievable lifts. i know you're prob a good bit heavier than me but still those number make mine look puny :-((

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

obviously i always mix it up but 5x5 and 3x3 are my staple training routine. And i dont count a squat as a squat unless its ass to the grass so to speak. quarter and half squats have their place too but not too often.
i rarely dead lift heavy weight tho. glute ham raises and hypers are much better i find and less chance of injury.
they are unbelievable lifts. i know you're prob a good bit heavier than me but still those number make mine look puny :-((

I'm only 90kg at the moment, lighest I've been since I was 17! I was competing in the U110kg class and at my heaviest was 122kg... LONG diet

I reckon with a bit of training I could hit a 220 squat and a 160 bench at under 100kg this summer, won't try too heavy on dl though, I'm scared ****less about having to leave out legs and lower back work for another 6 months.