model rocketry

greg-h

Hello i was wondering is there a irish model rocketry club in ireland. I remmember a old estes rocket i was given at the age of 8 and was thinking how i would like to get in to this hobbie

Fobia

The problem with rockets is not the rockets themselves, but the fuel. If I remember correctly there was some law about transporting rocket fuel, so it was very hard to get any in legally to use...

This may have changed since, but I don't know of any rocket clubs as such..

Prosta

I had an Uncle in the U.S that brought me over a few Estes kits when I was in my teens
They were spectacular, if a bitch to recover (especially if at all windy)
I never did find an engine source here so my interest died out.

Let us know if you hear anything

Wings&Things

I am unaware of any club or organisation which caters for model rocketry in Ireland, however you may get some informational help from web sites such as http://www.rocket-simulator.com
or there are also reference to other sites in the links directory of www.bmfa.org/links
As yet, www.maci.ie (Model Aeronautics Council of Ireland) does not have enough interested people to have rocketry included in their spectrum. Perhaps you could change all that!

coolwings

Thanks for the rocket links Wings

It would be nice if boards could be a focus place for Irish model rocketry.

I have heard myself that the law is going to be changed.

This would mean that irish shops would be able to stock and sell rocket fuel in the future, and that restriction was always the problem which mail order couldn't solve (hazardous material mailing restrictions).

SolarNexus

I have researched this topic pretty extensively, and unfortunately Model Rocketry is illegal in the Republic.

Model Rockets are classed as fireworks and as such are illegal; I have tried to get info on trying to get a license etc and on every attempt I cannot get more info.

Afaik, theres no way for a 'civilian' to legally do model rocketry. Now as far as getting a license to do so, I just hit a brick wall and just couldnt find anywhere to get more info.

Moreover, you cannot purchase the materials here and It's a bitch trying to import that sort of stuff. I couldnt even get myself some Saltpetre (Potassium Nitrate) which is a food ingredient, because of its explosive properties (can be used to make model rocket engines)

Plug

Saltpeter, sulpher and charcoal make gun powder, same stuff used in fireworks and I think model rocketery :cool:

coolwings

coolwings wrote:

I have heard myself that the law is going to be changed.
This would mean that irish shops would be able to stock and sell rocket fuel in the future...

SolarNexus wrote:

I have researched this topic pretty extensively, and unfortunately Model Rocketry is illegal in the Republic.

At the moment ... yes....but let's wait and see what happens....

SolarNexus

Plug wrote:

Saltpeter, sulpher and charcoal make gun powder, same stuff used in fireworks and I think model rocketery :cool:

technically "black powder", but all you need to make a rocket engine is Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) and Sucros (cane sugar, regular white sugar).

javaguy

I've researched the statute books and can only find two references to what would be considered model rocketry:

1. IRISH AVIATION AUTHORITY (ROCKETS AND SMALL AIRCRAFT) ORDER, 2000, S.I. No. 25/2000:
This statute restricts the launching of rockets but explicitly says it does NOT apply " (b) to a model rocket using not more than 100 grams (0.1 kilogram) of propellant or using a slow burning propellant and made of paper, wood or frangible plastic containing no substantial parts and weighing no more than half a kilogram (0.5 kilogram) operated in a manner that does not create a hazard to persons, property or other aircraft;..."

2. European Communities (Placing on the Market and Supervision of Explosives for Civil Uses) Regulations, 1995:
"D. Propellants and rocket propellants.
( a ) These materials must not detonate when used for their intended purpose.
( b ) Propellants where necessary (e.g. those based on nitrocellulose) must be stabilised against decomposition.
( c ) Solid rocket propellants, when in compressed or cast form, must not contain any unintentional fissures or gas bubbles which dangerously affect their functioning.

I see absolutely nothing that prohibits model rocketry. Nor can I find anything that restricts the import of model rocket propellants. If you can site a relevant statute that I have missed, please bring it to our attention.

SolarNexus

I rang up the Gardaí when I did my research, which admitedly was a few years back (I doubt the law has changed since, but its possible), and they explicitly said they were illegal. I also contacted whoever is the ruling authority on explosive substances, I forget who, but they too said it was illegal. They may have been wrong, but I'm sure if you dont have the local Gardaí backing you up, give it up - its not worth the hassle or possible jail time

personally, if I thought it was possible, I'd be buying myself some Saltpetre (KNO3) and make my own rocket engines/smoke bombs. I'd love to give it a try as I never got a chance to do _any_ chemistry of any type and although this is a far call from it, I think it'd be a fun hobby if done safely

Raiser

Thanks be to Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the donkey.

- Thought I was going to have to hang a motorbike helmet by the front door.

coolwings

Wanna buy a rocket ... buy an acre of ground, and wait !

pauln

Just bumping this up to see if there have been any new developments on the model rocketry front in this country? I would love to get involved in it.

@coolwings: Can you elaborate on your comments regarding possible changes in the works? Please

syl77

I am not 100% sure, but i heard the law against rockets has changed recently. I am not sure as to what class (if any) its changed for.
Also, my LHS is now stocking rockets, again, not sure how powerful they are.

pauln

That's great news.
Would you know of anywhere down the south/southeast or Limerick areas that would be stocking some of the stuff and do you have any idea of prices?
Thanks.

coolwings

I'm still waiting to get the change in the law reported back to me. But I understand that from now on, the biggest problem will be getting the rocket fuel, not the rockets themselves.
The fuel is a class A firework, and has very many restrictions on transport/insurance.

As soon as I have it in detail I will post the up to date here.

pauln

@coolwings:
When you say fuel I presume to mean the solid rocket "motors" not liquid fuel? Is it only the rocket shell that will be easier to purchase now or will it be easier to purchase rockets that come with the "motors" preinstalled like a kit or such or would that still come under the same restrictions as the motors on their own?

Is there a debate taking place somewhere on the legislation governing this and are there any links to info online or are we relying on stuff filtering down from the powers that be?

Sorry for the cross-examination, just interested in developments and thanks for the update.

Prosta

syl77 wrote:

I am not 100% sure, but i heard the law against rockets has changed recently. I am not sure as to what class (if any) its changed for.
Also, my LHS is now stocking rockets, again, not sure how powerful they are.

Where is your LHS (local hobby shop?) I'd like to check their stock

syl77

Model World, Lisbaun Industrial Estate, Galway.
http://www.modelworld.tv/

Better to ring as website does not show all stock. Hope they have what your looking for.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

ok. my bro was in america for the summer and he brought me back a rocket w/built-in camera. so i can take an arial photo while it is in the air . so ,i hope we can get fuel or get it imported soon

coolwings

What size is the rocket?

g5hn710m4xpdwy

:mad: :mad: ah ffs. i brought it out today, there is a "green" in the middle of the estate. I now know how big the area has to be. ITS GONE as it was coming down it drifted accros the river and into trees :mad: :mad: . it was an estes snapshot it used c6-5 fuel i still have fuel, launch pad and launcher thingy but no rocket. i think i might get another but i will only use it in like the 15 acres in phoinex park :rolleyes:

shane0312

Flunked, how did you manage to import the rocket fuel?

g5hn710m4xpdwy

um. my bro was in america for the summer and he brought a rocket back as a pressie so while he was at it he got some motors. they are very small packets for the motors so it is very easy to get em threw

greg-h

As one can not buy rocket motors in ireland it seams obvious what one should do build your own. There fore a group of us have established the csra (cork,space,research,association) all equipment is home made. We are expecting the a1 to fly by christmas while explorer 1 should be redy to go by summer 06. The formation of the csra seamed the only logical step.

johngkelly

Hi Greg,
Is there any update from the csra. I've been frustrated by the impossibility of getting model rockets here and have finally come to the conclusion that I should start putting stuff together myself. would love to hear how you are getting on and further details of the association

g5hn710m4xpdwy

I have a few engine left up my drawer, a starting thing and a launch pad, just no rocket since it flew away, tho as soon as i can a compatible rocket i will got to somewhere thats big!and will crsa do up engines for the poeple in need?:o

Son_of_Belial

If you really want to get hold of some, I can make a few up for you, but I'd need to know the size you want etc.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

First post in this thread in a year...:eek:

Right now I don't need the motors right now as I have 3 or 4, But I don't have a rocket to use them in
If I do get another rocket I might take you up on the offer;)
Thanks

Prosta

Anyone see Nationwide last Wed?
Showed St Pat's Rocket club in Tuam.

Was wondering if anyone had contacted to see where they got their motors.

tfitz666

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I was thinking that a cheap way of making rocket engines would be to buy saltpetre on ebay(legal to import as far as I know) and then follow this guide (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/858692/home_made_rocket_fuel/) Havn't tried this myself but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Let me know how it goes if ye try it:cool:

tfitz666

^^
Obviously the above post is only if the law now allows rockets;)

tenox

This should bring some light to the case:

http://www.iaa.ie/library_download.jsp?libraryID=283

MayoForSam

Another update - Eric Stenzel of the Irish Rocketry Society (http://www.irishrocketry.com/Home.htm) will be launching a 17'-tall rocket (:eek:) in Tuam tomorrow (Easter Saturday) - this will be the largest rocket ever launched in Ireland.

I am intending to be there to see this, hopefully the weather will behave itself.

tenox

Obviously this must be a water rocket.

DennisZ

tenox wrote: »

Obviously this must be a water rocket.

did you actually check their website ?

the document, you are referring to, does not prohibit such activity.
yes, it is strictly regulated.

obviously guys are "flying" from approved sites (agreed with IAA).

btw:
Rocket Launches
2009 Schedule:
The last Sunday of every month, April through August
(Weather Permitting)
3.00pm AT THE MARITIME MUSEUM
http://www.inishowenmaritime.com/a_s_h.shtml

Hauk

I've had an interest in this for a while now, but it seems the materials for building the rocket fuels are restricted.

Is there a drive at all to get certain chemicals such as KN03 declassified for civilian use?

I'd like to get started with rocketry at a later date(too many hobbies, not enough time), but within the law of course.

I suppose I'll have to resign myself to watching videos of stuff going *swoosh* on youtube.

Cheers,

Hauk

IRS.ie

**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

Cheap motors & rocket kits can be purchased via the internet for model rocketry. (some vendors might ask for a explosive license)

High power rocket motor require a cert. from a governing body like Tripoli Rocketry Association, or the United Kingdom Rocketry Association.
If you are interested in getting in to model or high power please contact us via
www.irishrocketry.com

You much have an explosive license to import/transport/store rocket motors.

Vendors in the UK will not or are unlikely to ship to Ireland for several reasons, shipping company's will not carry explosives is the main reason also they are unlikely just to send rocket motors to someone they do not know. We have spent time getting to know the vendors over a few years.

We are also members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & United Kingdom Rocketry Association (UKRA)

There is are legality issues to be addressed before launching rockets in Ireland.

**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

If you wish to fly rockets in Ireland please turn up at

Rocket Launches the last Sunday of every month, April through August
(Weather Permitting)
3.00PM at the Inishowen Maritime Museum Co.Donegal.

All rocket launches in Ireland are Family events.

We are still looking for suitable launch sites throughout the country.


Colin - www.irishrocketry.com


**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

Hauk

IRS.ie wrote: »

**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

**** Please do not make your own rocket fuel. ****

Already hear you, I wasn't going to anyway. Thanks for the info though, thats some good reading.

Good luck with it.

Hauk

DennisZ

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10886154#ProductDetail

Basic_User

Someone brought this thread to my attention & thought I'd chip in.

I'm the guy that did those rocket programs that you viewed on Nationwide as well as other events and yes, they are real rockets.

A couple of pictures are (hopefully) attached of my big rocket mentioned in post #35. One with me standing next to it for perspective and another of it launching. The fuel used to launch it is the same used in the Space Shuttle so it's pretty powerful.

If you further info, post here or pop an email to island451 (at) hotmail.com

Type ROCKETRY in the subject line as this email address is one that may attract spam.

All the best;

Eric

MotteDai

Hi Guys

This Post seems to come in and go back to the shelf. I think it would be great for us as a country however to promote such clubs and societies, if we want a good scientific and engineering country we need interesting things and heres something to get any young person interested.

I'd love to obtain a model one to learn with my young guys and then move to a bigger version, are they difficult to get and has the licenses been solved? I assume membership of some club would be advisable..

Dont know if anyone else out there is still interested, may pop into Tuam on May 16th and have a look at the next launch.. talk there..

MotteDai

coolwings wrote: »

Wanna buy a rocket ... buy an acre of ground, and wait !

I had to post a rply to this .. orig posted on summer 2005...
Oh how things had changed!

IRS.ie

The rockets are not the problem its the 'motor' that is need to power the rocket.

Model rocketry uses Black Powder

High power uses ammonium perchlorate

To import you need an explosive licence.

If you want buy a model kit & come to Tuam on the 16th we can have the motors for you to fly.

Basic_User

Hey MotteDai,

I PM'ed you about rocket kits for you & your kids if you want to attend.

Hope to see you on the day. Fly high & fast but don't crash & burn!

con71

Will there be another launch in Tuam? If so, when and where exactly.Oh please, oh please, oh please!

IRS.ie

I'l send Eric Stenzel a mail asking him about launching more rockets in Tuam. At the moment its an anual thing.
Colin.

con71

Thanks Colin. Is the Irish Rocketry site down for good or is it just a temporary glitch?

IRS.ie

just a temporary glitch, should be back working in the morning..takes time for them to find the problem, its only happend once before & took afew hours to sort out.

Phractal

About time model rocketry arrived here... A few years back I was a massive Estes enthusiast. Every weekend me and my dad would go to Modelworld in the Liosbaun and pick up a pack of rockets - normally A-8-3 or B-6-4. We once made the mictake of getting my rocket, which was designed for A and B series engines, enlargening the motor housing by filing away some plastic, and stuffing a D-12-0 rocket in. Seeing as no ejection charge was present, it just... Flew away. We fired em out in the bog in Claregalway and this one must be buried somewhere in the peat.

After getting frustrated with the fairly lifeless Estes firing box I designed and built some of my own - if you like, I can post a photo of my favourite one. It had an ARM switch with flashing light to indicate it being armed, and a toggle to FIRE, and uses a battery pack.

I also noted that one can mess with the engine a little bit to get more ISP, but one in three would CATO. But that is O.T. Could y'all tell me if there is a launch in Tuam soon? I cant belive I never heard of the launches there and I am a mere 8km away.

Also, for a 18 year old how hard will it be to get a permit to legally fire these things (estes motors/ APCP based motors)? I know there is a loophole that allows one type of Hybrid but they are bloody dangerous if I were to **** up...

If y'all have questions regarding ignition, ignitors, and such, I have a lot of experience with e-match construction for when the Estes ones failed.