2 Wheels or 4??

Undercoverguy

Ok i wont kill you all to death with details so i'll give ya the quick story.
Im 17 (18 in 2 months) and I start college later this year in Ballyfermot, I live in Malahide..... so its a pretty HUGE distance.
Public transport is too slow and lets face it.... crap so Dublin bus would get me there late most mornings.
I'm able to get a motor loan a month before college for either a Car or Bike.
Taking into account Dublin traffic i wanna get a bike cos bikes can get past traffic (in theory) slightly faster than cars.I have a Prov licence which lets my drive a bike up to 125CC or a Car.

So the question is, DO i get a Motorbike or Car?

Pros of bike:
WAY cheaper on insurance, tax, upkeep, GAS.
Bike also looks way cooler; http://www.maxmoto.co.uk/images/aprilia%20rs125%202005%20l.jpg

Cons of Bike:
Death, Weather.

---

Pros of car:
Weather, Passangers, Slightly safer, Radio lol

Cons of car:
TRAFFIC! GAS, Insurance, TAX, Upkeep.

katiegordon

The death ting is pretty big for me but i suppose its unlikely.
Id buy a car, but id say the better option for u is a bike......
But hey wat do i know......

LadyJ

Car!

katiegordon

But think of sittin in traffic all d way from malahide every day!!!

Sarsfield

Actually the 78A is very fast and reliable. As is the DART to Tara St.

Give public transport a chance!

LadyJ

Beep beep! Car car!

cormie

Katie Gordon, is that the Katie Gordon I know???

Is moving out near college an option? If you get a car you will be paying almost as much as you would per week on insurance as you would be on rent.

If you only intend on using it for a ride to college, I'd go with the bike. A car is very handy though, for passengers and general transport of things.

katiegordon

em I dont know, what Katie Gordon do you know???
Im only 15 so doubt it...

dawballz

Bike, but if you're serious about the RS, it's going to cost you a bomb to insure.
It would be one of the faster 125's I think(and definately one of the nicest).

If you do get it and get insured, let me know. I want to get another bike, and the RS is gorgeous.

Bike all the way..Buy a pair of wet pants and a nice waterproof jacket and you're set.

LadyJ

Cars bring women,motorbikes bring men!

jor el

Go with the bike. Far better for getting around in the city. Something like a TDR125 would be fairly powerfull for a 125 but cheap on tax and insurance (insurance group 2 so just about the cheapest). Also the bike shouldn't cost more than 2 grand for about a '00 or '01 model.

The killing yourself thing isn't something you should worry about to be honest. Just drive carefully and you'll most likely be OK.

Undercoverguy

dawballz wrote:

Bike, but if you're serious about the RS, it's going to cost you a bomb to insure.
It would be one of the faster 125's I think(and definately one of the nicest).

If you do get it and get insured, let me know. I want to get another bike, and the RS is gorgeous.

Bike all the way..Buy a pair of wet pants and a nice waterproof jacket and you're set.

Insurance quote at EUR1500.00 COMP, cos my Dad is gonna go as the main driver and me and just a named driver.... He'll never drive it tho lol

mp3guy

Get an old volkswagens hippy van. You could probably get one for free, fix it up, and you can get classical insurance AFAIK, which is only about €200 or so.

Garibaldi

Turning lock on trailies (Honda Varadero, Yamaha TDR etc) is much better than on sports bikes, so much better for navigating through packed city/M50 streets. That said, I've had three Aprilias, and they were all way cooler than a traily (which I currently have....d'oh).

daymobrew

If possible get some motorbike training before buying a motorbike.
Contact Motorcycle Action Group Ireland for information on training courses. I know Fingal County Council run courses, probably in association with MAG Ireland.

There are training guides on the MAG Ireland site. They make for interesting reading.

When I got my bike license, in California, I took training before buying a bike. It was 18 hours over 3 days, 8 in a classroom and 10 on a bike in a large school playground. We never went over 2nd gear but it was an excellent introduction to riding.

Knowing how to drive helps, especially to know the concepts of clutch and gears and engine braking (the latter a non-issue on mopeds with their automatic transmissions).

Don't forget to factor in the price of protective gear. I recommend you get a riding jacket with shoulder/elbow/back padding and riding pants with hip/knee padding. The jacket and pants will be waterproof and kevlar is a good protective material. Wear leather gloves too. The helmet is too obvious to even mention.

tk123

Go with the bike - there's no point in buying a car to sit in traffic every morning!!! Also the bike won't cost as much in tax and petrol!! As for the weather - it's not a prob if you have the right gear!! I have cordura jacket and trousers - the lining comes out so they're light enough so your not sweating in summer an d they keep the rain out. I also have overboots and they keep my runners nice and dry too!!

Kernel

Go have a look at rotten.com and see what happens to bikers when they crash or get hit by feckless drivers!

PS - the weather in our fine island is too ****e for biking too, but it is cheaper and more fun. Don't underestimate the death/serious injury element though. I know a lot of guys who had been bikers and had a few hair-raising moments. Most had come off at some stage, and some had serious (and I mean SERIOUS) injuries.

WhiteWashMan

jor el wrote:

The killing yourself thing isn't something you should worry about to be honest. Just drive carefully and you'll most likely be OK.

youre obviously not a seasoned driver of any vehicle.

its ntoa case of whether or not you are a good driver, its a case of whether those around youa re good drivers. and the answer is no.

you may be 150% in the right, but if you are hit by a car, then youre still 150% right and dead. or paralysed if youre lucky.

by the way, what in your definition is 'most likely'?
10%?
5%
1%

are you saying that every 100 times you take your bike out, you will get hit 1 of those times?

i dont much like your odds...

seamus

Insurance won't be cheaper unless you buy a moped.

My bike insurance is €1,400 TPO with 3-years no claims on a 125cc. I just got quoted €1,500 Fully Comp on a 1.2 Polo with zero no-claims.

TBH, at 17, just starting college, I think moving out and renting a room with some mates close to college would be better for you, both in terms of the hassle of a vehicle, and life experience.

tk123

Kernel - driving a car can be dangerous too so can crossing the road for that matter. Thats no reason not to have a bike!!! OP as long as you get some lessons and have your wits about you when driving you'll be FINE!!! You just need to drive with the outlook that everyone else on the road is crap driver/drive defensively(sp?) and they're going to squish you - I'm not saying that they ARE crap drivers but if you're expecting somebody to say pull into your lane without indicating you'll be giving yourself plenty of space/driving at the right speed so you'll be able to react. If your flying along and not looking where you're going you'll get yourself killed...sorry if that doesn't make sense...

Kernel

tk123 wrote:

Kernel - driving a car can be dangerous too so can crossing the road for that matter. Thats no reason not to have a bike!!!

Well, if you get hit in a car then you have some chance, you get hit on a bike or come off it at high speed, you have a lot less of a chance is all I'm saying.

Garibaldi

Ah, the old "mine's more dangerous than yours" chestnut just never goes away, does it. OP, if you want a bike, get a bike, if you want a car, get a car, the choice is yours. Seamus probably has the best idea, though.

vector

IMHO Get a car

(and maybe get a bike in a few years when you have some spare money, or when you reach a mid life crisis)

tk123

lol and take the bike out once a month on a sunny day!!

seamus

Thread moved, poll edited

echomadman

If you're going to buy a car, just use public transport instead, you'll be sitting in the same traffic jams and on the bus at least you're not contributing to them, also it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper as you wont be paying tax+insurance+petrol+all the other little things you have to spend money on when you own a car/bike.
The bike will allow you to bypass the traffic jams and is all around more fun, although the RS wont be comfortable on your wrists in traffic, i'd second the varadero/tdr recommendation (preferable the varadero, the tdr is a stroker and sounds like a chainsaw), or get a scooter for a year then move onto a bike.

Dades

As Batman said:

"It's the car, right? Chicks love the car?"

GET THE CAR. Dry, warm, musak, passenger friendly...
You're going to have to insure a car at some stage anyway so you might as well get started.

And don't the latest road statistics say that you are 17 times more likely to be killed riding a bike than in a car?

And don't forget to name your car. That's important.

fletch

I would say the bike. But what about when it's raining heavily....a car is a much nicer place to be & arrive to college in. Imagine arriving to college soaked to the skin, stinking of petrol fumes & possibly having nowhere to store your helmet/change of clothes etc....
I don't envy you any way you look at it.

Stephen

Dublin traffic jams? Get the bike. I say this as an ex-biker who now drives a cage, but I live in the sticks where there's bugger all traffic. (I commute 12 miles from a town to the countryside every day, its great seeing all the traffic going the opposite direction )

If you buy some decent wet weather gear you'll be pretty dry underneath it - just make sure you can get a locker or something in the college to store your helmet, jacket etc in.

jackal

I would go the bike route, but on a scooter.

The RS-125 is a race replica 2-stroke - Its uncomfortable, has a tiny power band, no storage space and can be expensive/time sapping to maintain. Its possibly the worst bike you could get as a commuter.

For dawdling in and out of college an ovetto MBK 50/125 is yer only man. Storage (with top box - huge amount of storage), bullet proof motor, no chain to oil/adjust/replace, comfortable, some protection from the elements, no clutch/gears. I had one for a year and loved it.

I got a bigger bike eventually, because I got into bikes as a hobby. If my commute was through heavy traffic/city centre, I would get a scoot and save my "real" bike for the weekends.

positron

Public transport (dart/luas) and a pedal bike! Save the planet, few euros and get fit doing it!

jackal

Ah go hug some trees!

vector

positron wrote:

Public transport (dart/luas) and a pedal bike! Save the planet, few euros and get fit doing it!

the bicycle
actually, after a certain distance, a car is cheaper
I mean cycling isin't free, you must eat, and after a certain distance...
well lets just say that snickers and bottled water are more expensive than petrol

japjap

I have to commute from Ranelagh to Drumcondra everyday. It takes 20 min on the bike (can do it in 15 without excessive risk). The 11 bus can over an hour at 5pm for the same journey. I don't know car times but would guess they are nearer the bus than the bike.

I used to have an NSR and would advise NOT to get a sporty 125. Especially a 2 stroke. Get a 250 4 stroke, much more reliable. Aprilla use to have a terrible reputation for reliability although I think that's changing. Check insurance catagories, the NSR changed from 4 to 7 which is why I sold it.

At the end of the day when your at home having your dinner at 6pm rather than 7, you'll know you made the right decision.

And don't forget parking, there's no driving around for 20minutes just looking for a space...

dawballz

japjap wrote:

I have to commute from Ranelagh to Drumcondra everyday. It takes 20 min on the bike (can do it in 15 without excessive risk). The 11 bus can over an hour at 5pm for the same journey. I don't know car times but would guess they are nearer the bus than the bike.

I used to have an NSR and would advise NOT to get a sporty 125. Especially a 2 stroke. Get a 250 4 stroke, much more reliable. Aprilla use to have a terrible reputation for reliability although I think that's changing. Check insurance catagories, the NSR changed from 4 to 7 which is why I sold it.

At the end of the day when your at home having your dinner at 6pm rather than 7, you'll know you made the right decision.

And don't forget parking, there's no driving around for 20minutes just looking for a space...

Is that right? It changed from 4 to 7?
I though it went from 2 to 3(or 4)?
I had an nsr when I was 17. Insurance for the first year was 1500.
Next year, with one years NCB was 3200.

I just rang up aon there a few mins ago.
They gave me a quote of 1900 for insurance on a yamaha TDR 125(insurance group 2). Third party only(I think). Fully comp was about 2300 I think. Wasn't really listening to her after she gave me the shock of 1900 for the lowest group insurance I could get. Maybe if my father got insured on it first and me as named driver..as OP above checked? My one years NCB should count for something..

positron

vector wrote:

the bicycle
actually, after a certain distance, a car is cheaper
I mean cycling isin't free, you must eat, and after a certain distance...
well lets just say that snickers and bottled water are more expensive than petrol

After a certain distance, car is more practical, not cheaper - car is always expensive - try estimating the cost of fuel, tax, insurance, depreciation and time wasted sitting in traffic and add medical expenses for backache etc and also keep in mind the bad posture, obesity etc etc

I know, because I drive from Blanch to City centre, >1hr each way, now thats only because public transport (bus) takes between 1hr and 20 mins to 1hr 40mins!

jor el

WhiteWashMan wrote:

youre obviously not a seasoned driver of any vehicle.

Why? If you drive carefully you'll fare a lot better on the roads than if you drive wrecklessly. Sure, you can never be completely safe from other people but I don't see how worrying will help. By your reasoning we should never go anywhere near a vehicle or road.

its ntoa case of whether or not you are a good driver, its a case of whether those around youa re good drivers. and the answer is no.

you may be 150% in the right, but if you are hit by a car, then youre still 150% right and dead. or paralysed if youre lucky.

by the way, what in your definition is 'most likely'?
10%?
5%
1%

are you saying that every 100 times you take your bike out, you will get hit 1 of those times?

i dont much like your odds...

Sure if you get hit by a car when you're on a bike (regardles of who's in the wrong) you're most likely dead but what I said was you shouldn't worry about it. If you spent your life worrying about all the bad things that could happen to you then you'd probably be dead from the stress by now.

How many bikers are on the roads in Ireland and how many have been killed? The percentage is probably quite small (higher than for car drivers maybe) and hence 'most likely' you'll be OK.

Get training and drive safe. That's about all you can do. If some wreckless driver hits you then there isn't anything you can do about it whether you're on a bike, motorbike, car, in a bus or just walking along.

Like I said, drive carefully and you'll most likely be OK. Drive like a lunatic and you'll most likely kill yourself or someone else.

Dades

jor el wrote:

How many bikers are on the roads in Ireland and how many have been killed? The percentage is probably quite small (higher than for car drivers maybe) and hence 'most likely' you'll be OK.

That's quite an incredible deduction! Maybe check out this quote from here:

However despite represneting less than 2% of the total number of licensed vehicles in Ireland, motorcycle users account for 12% of road fatalities. Motorcycle and scooter users are vulnerable road users. In a crash they have less protection than in a car.

Rock on.

saobh_ie

First of all, you said a bike would be cheaper than a car. Good deal. I'm 22 and bikes are still more expensive than cars.

However, I voted for bike. But I wouldn't get the RS125, I don't think it would be the best for going college through the city center. I'm not going to suggest a CG125 (dog) but you might consider a CBR125 or Sachs do a 4 stroke 125, if your into sports bikes. You’re probably better off going with one of Honda's 4 stroke trailies though.

Start in all weather, built for punishment. You will laugh your ass of for the twenty minutes it takes you to carve through the city center traffic. When the traffic is at its worst you'll go faster than when its bad. You make better time through unmoving traffic than slowly moving traffic.

A trailie also puts you higher up so you can see and be seen better. Something like a Vadero can actually lug quite a bit of stuff around and doesn't look stupid with a box on the back either.

You won’t die, there, you have my personal assurance, maimed may…. Err no you won’t get killed or maimed, potentially some cool scars which will stand you in good stead in a few years though. Some really nice roads around Malahide and between there and the city center so you should enjoy your commute (you’ll be leaving early and arriving home late because you’ve beaten the traffic and spent the balance having fun).

Cars are dull, and at 17 you’re going to be driving some piece of junk probably. So get a bike, spent a few hundred getting some good weather gear and you will NEVER be wet or cold no matter what people say to you. You’ll be laughing all the way to college, and then you’ll park near the door and walk inside.

They in the other hand will become wetter and colder than you are, walking for their cars parked acres away to the door than you would after a day out in the rain on your bike.

Also when you get a car everyone will want lifts off you, you’ll end up being an unpaid taxi driver.

Also if you go to rotten.com I’m certain you’ll fine more pictures of stupid car drivers who have come to grief than you will of motorcyclists.

Finally, if you do get a bike I can recommend some really really really really good instructors with the patented ‘saobh’ stamp of approval so send me off a PM. =]

You won’t die. =D You’ll have a laugh. =D You will save a bunch of cash over the long run. =D


LadyJ, I attract women on my bike all the time, problem is they’re all driving really badly and its like they’re trying to kill me.

Undercoverguy, You too will attract women drivers but with training you’ll be able to avoid them. I didn’t once but I have the hand to eye coordination of a fish and the reaction speed of continental drift.

Also, being a pedestrain is dangerous, being a motorcyclist is dangerous, the only place your safe is in a car. lol

a_ominous

@Undercoverguy, I'd suggest a 125 scooter. They're group 2 insurance, have storage for books, etc underseat, helmet when you're in class. Quick enough in the suburban traffic you'll be in. Have fairing to help with protection from the weather. Get some training: AON/Axa will give discounts for recognised training. Ring them up for a quote, and ask about the training discounts. If you pass the assessment, you could be riding from very early on without the loading for a provisional licence (35%) which could amount to 500-700 euro in your case, I'd reckon. You could drop into a few bike shops over the weekend and get quotes from the shops too. They mightn't know/care about the discounts. There's a shop near the Five Lamps that do scooters and bikes, GP I think.

Regarding the weather: I've been on 2 wheels in Dublin traffic for 5 winters now, cycling and now motorbike. I recall one winter where I didn't have to use any rain gear on the pushbike. It did rain, but not during my commute (regular office hours). If the rain looks like a short shower, you delay your journey 15 minutes and go home then. On a scooter or motorbike, extra clothing is essential. You'll cool off quickly in winter time because you're not moving. You'll cool down 20 or so times quicker when you get wet (or some factor like that, watch Discovery channel ) Bottom line: weather isn't that big an issue. You're gonna get wet waiting at a bus stop.

Car: nah, don't bother. It's just not time efficient.

Public transport: Could be an option. Dart to Tara St, walk down to Aston Quay and get bus to Ballyer. Should be possible in under an hour. I bus'ed to college many moons ago and I spent about 2.5 to 3 hours a day travelling.

dawballz

Well put there saobh.
I drove a bike for a year and didn't even drop it once.
If you are cautious, but not too nervous, you'll be sound.
I'm looking into a yamaha TDR 125 myself. Insurance group 2.
Got a quote for 1900 the other day from AON. Will try axa or some other broker tomorrow. If I can get it for under 1400 I'd definately gettin the bike.

Bikes are(in general) much more exciting and fun than any affordable car, imo.

dceire

I wanted to do that I can get the hippy van from a freind who has loads of them in his yard, but could'nt get insurance :mad: m/17/prov & classic insurance is for full licenced drivers over 25yo

mp3guy wrote:

Get an old volkswagens hippy van. You could probably get one for free, fix it up, and you can get classical insurance AFAIK, which is only about €200 or so.

jor el

dawballz wrote:

I'm looking into a yamaha TDR 125 myself. Insurance group 2.
Got a quote for 1900 the other day from AON. Will try axa or some other broker tomorrow. If I can get it for under 1400 I'd definately gettin the bike.

Woh, what age are you? I'm 28 with provisional licence and I got €600 for Third Party on a TDR125 from AON (who deal for AXA now). Hibernian quoted me close to €700 and Carole Nash was over €1100, all for TP.

For Undercoverguy it's going to be very expensive anyway for a car or motorbike because of his age and provo licence. Running costs on the bike should be cheaper, but only if you take care of it.

dawballz

jor el wrote:

Woh, what age are you? I'm 28 with provisional licence and I got €600 for Third Party on a TDR125 from AON (who deal for AXA now). Hibernian quoted me close to €700 and Carole Nash was over €1100, all for TP.

For Undercoverguy it's going to be very expensive anyway for a car or motorbike because of his age and provo licence. Running costs on the bike should be cheaper, but only if you take care of it.

19 with one year's NCB and a prov. license.
I'm not in Dublin either.
I'm going to ring around today I think.
Any suggestions?

Actually jor el, could you tell me a bit about the TDR?
Like what should I look for when buying it?
Any common faults with it etc?

Biker.ie

If they were both costing similar money, but one was a nissan micra, I'd go for the bike instead.

Most girls cant tell the difference between a 750 / 125 either

tk123

Biker.ie wrote:

If they were both costing similar money, but one was a nissan micra, I'd go for the bike instead.

Most girls cant tell the difference between a 750 / 125 either

Hey that goes for most non-biker guys too!!

Tobias Greeshman

If you were only going to be in traffic all the time (as you said!) then I'd go for the bike, so you could dip in and out of traffic. While I do love bikes they are very weather dependent, they're so damn easy to get a skid in wet weather. A car's gonna be too much of a delay in traffic anyway!

biker.ie wrote:

If they were both costing similar money, but one was a nissan micra

Im sure the man can do better than a Nissan Micra, sorry there such a chicks car!

spockety

Anyone who recommends you get a car to commute in Dublin traffic is obviously a car driver who wants the misery to be shared. They can't STAND bikers who cut through traffic. They moan about them being "lawbreakers" etc, cos it drives them absolutely nuts that their 1-1.5 hour Dublin journey is done in 15-20 minutes by someone on two wheels.

I know, I'm both a car driver and a bike rider, and on the days where I have to commute in the car it drives me absolutely barmy.

I used to go to college in DCU Ballymun, and commute from Tallaght on the bus, best life decision I ever made was to get a loan for a bike. Had them ever since.

All other considerations aside, if the "bread and butter" of your requirements is getting from Malahide to Ballyfermot every morning and reteurning every evening, it has to be the bike. Invest in good clothing, and you will not be wet, you will be bone dry, I promise.

Biker.ie

silas wrote:

Im sure the man can do better than a Nissan Micra, sorry there such a chicks car!

Unfortunately the choice of car for someone in that category (ie. 17yrs old) is extremely limited and generally dictated by insurance companies.

He could put some spoilers and bits 'n bobs on it to make it appear 'sportier' though :eek:

saobh_ie

silas wrote:

While I do love bikes they are very weather dependent, they're so damn easy to get a skid in wet weather.

Eh?!?! :eek:

Get some training, do the Aon/Axa training assesment. Get your bike, thrash it around all summer and then when it gets to autumn go and get some more training so you get straightened out and take it cheesy on the wet days.

daymobrew

tk123 wrote:

Hey that goes for most non-biker guys too!!

Agreed. How many non-bikers (m & f) would know about the weight distribution between front and back wheels for braking (IIRC 70% front, 30% back).

spockety wrote:

I used to go to college in DCU Ballymun

Although I started there when it was NIHE Dublin (1988), I paid a lot of my own money (not mammy/daddy's) to go to DCU Glasnevin

To the OP, I have a First Gear Kilimanjaro jacket and pants that are no use to me since my wife won't let me get a bike (I had one in California for 3 years but none since I moved home a few years ago). Both are well padded, warm and waterproof. If they fit we could sort something out.