Insurance on a bigger engine car

Eoin

We all know that insurance companies load young male drivers, and this is probably due to anecdotal evidence - I don't really mean this to become another MIJAG inspired thread.

What I am wondering about is why you generally pay more for the size of the engine. Are you really more likely to crash a 1.6 litre Golf, than a 1 litre polo? If this is the case, why are diesel engines not cheaper to insure than the equivalent petrol engine. In the city I would expect a lot of accidents to occur at or less than 50KMPH, which any car will do comfortably.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I would have thought that traditionally a 1.9 litre diesel engine would be about as quick as maybe a 1.6 litre car - however, the chances are that you will pay more insurance for the diesel car, purely because it is a bigger engine.

Any thoughts? (have a feeling this could be a real tumbleweed of a thread!)

mike65

Less tumbleweed more a can of worms.

There are so many variables at work when arriving at a premium rate. Broadly you pay more for power and value of metal. A diesel may have less power but cost more to insure as its book value is greater (most derv drinkers are 1000-2000 more than nearest petrol model and they retain the value longer), as for the crashing part of the premium thats mainly down to the drivers profile.

Mike.

Saturnine

I got an insurance quote with Brittons insurance of 1398.43 for a volvo 460 1.8i the next quote i got was for a 1.1 fiesta for exactly five euro less.

Eoin

I know where you're coming from, but the increases seem purely because of the engine size, as the cars may be the same value.

For instance, I moved from a Pug 206 1.1 litre to a Golf 1.4 valued at the same price. I think my premium went up a few hundred quid. My age, gender etc were obviously unchanged, so it seems that I am more likely to crash the bigger car.

I am just interested to see if there actually is evidence that you are more likely to crash a more powerful car, because it is probably the only factor of insurance premiums that we accept without question.

Eoin

Saturnine wrote:

I got an insurance quote with Brittons insurance of 1398.43 for a volvo 460 1.8i the next quote i got was for a 1.1 fiesta for exactly five euro less.

That's not bad going, I think the drop for me to move to a 1.1 litre car from my current one (1.6 alfa in sig) is around E600

mike65

eoin_s wrote:

I am just interested to see if there actually is evidence that you are more likely to crash a more powerful car, because it is probably the only factor of insurance premiums that we accept without question.

Perhapes the insurance companies are working on the cost of the crash ie bigger engined car = bigger crash + greater valve of twisted metal/more broken bones = bigger payout.

Or they could just be making it up without any stats to draw on.

Mike.

30-6shooter

Yeah, i agree with the original poster. Are you really more likely to have an accident in a 1.6golf over a 1.0 polo.
And diesel cars are generally slower, sluggier and your being penalised for the higher cc.
Most 1.9 non turbo cars would be more round the equivilant of a 1.4Lpetrol rather than a 1.6L even.

I dont think theres much difference in a 1.0Lpetrol to a 2.0L diesel regarding the likelyhood of crashing,,,,,,,,,, but theres obviously a greater likelyhood on sports cars or over 2.0Lcc petrols in the chance of crashing it.

Enygma

Do I get banned for mentioning rotary engines in this thread?

They look at everything including the "desireability" of the car, how likely it is to be stolen, the power/weight ratio, the profile of the type of person to own the car etc.

My premium once went down moving from a 1.0 Fiesta to a newer 1.3, go figure.

That said, I think they just make up those numbers

prospect

Eoin_S
I am dissappointed in you, 1.9JTD slower than a 1.6 petrol, I don't think so.

I got a price in a 1.6L 147, and a 1.6L Megane, the 147 was wwaaaayy higher.
Also, a 1.4L megane tourer was cheaper to insure than a 1.2L 206. So they seem to take the type of car into account aswell as the engine size.

Personally, I think it should be based on BHP, and value of the car.

Con9903

well ask yourself, why do people get larger engine sizes in the first place, for more power? They see someone buy a 2l Golf GTI instead of a 1.4 golf for example. Maybe they think that when people opt for larger engine sizes despite the costs to the premium, it's safe to assume that they're are a risk as they're buying the car due to the extra CCs it possesses.

Con9903

prospect wrote:

Eoin_S
I am dissappointed in you, 1.9JTD slower than a 1.6 petrol, I don't think so.

I think he meant a non turbo engine

prospect

Can you buy a non turbo diesel any more,

1.9L or Even 1.6L:
Common Rail Diesel,
JTD,
HDI,
TDI,
ETC,

Equal to, or better than in alot of cases 1.6L petrol...

Nuttzz

Drive a laguna 1.9 diesel and got a quote for 1.8 BMW the, BMW was €200 dearer.
My GF got a 2.0L C180 last week, her renewal for June is €20 dearer than her 1.4 Xsara...

samo

Other half went from a 1.5 civic to a 2.0l accord and cost increased by €60 same type of cost for me to go from a 1.4 focus to 1.8 mondeo....I think it all depends on experience/type of car etc personally as these were 2 different insurance companies and also found (now I'm older and can afford fully comp!) that it seems to be cheaper to change to a bigger engine if your fully comp rather than 3rd party.

Con9903

prospect wrote:

Can you buy a non turbo diesel any more,
...

yes

Atomic Pineapple

Quinn direct wont even insure me in a TDi they'll only do up to 90hp, why? I cant get a Golf Sdi in highline edition can only get it in the Tdi I would love a highline edition Golf but for all of 15 - 20 hp i cant have one? sucks!

Guy:Incognito

Quinn direct wouldnt insure me on my 2l Accord, so I took hibernians quote of €2426. I was messing around on their online quote system and realised that if I drop to tpft (the car is only worth €1500 or so) and put my partner on the policy (shes 29 and has full licence) it drops to €1640 (after I added €50 for windscreen cover) Im on hold at the min waiting to change my policy.

Lord Nikon

My next car is gonna be a 1.8 Turbo Quattro Audi A4. Do I have to tell my insurance company that it has a turbo or the quattro?

If I wanted to insure a XJ220, would i have to tell them it had 4 turbos?

Stephen

Yeah you do have to tell them. If you don't and you have a claim on your insurance, they can just tell you to bugger off.

seamus

neuromancer wrote:

My next car is gonna be a 1.8 Turbo Quattro Audi A4. Do I have to tell my insurance company that it has a turbo or the quattro?

If I wanted to insure a XJ220, would i have to tell them it had 4 turbos?

It's the principle of utmost good faith, if you can remember Junior Cert business studies. The insurance company insure you in good faith that you have declared all relavant particulars. If you violate this principle, they can just declare your insurance void and keep your money.

Guy:Incognito

But if he says " I'd like to insure an xj220" should they not know that it comes with 4 turbos, if it does cme that way form th efactory? I mean i didnt tell them that my car has 4 wheels or anything bout the engine, just that it wasnt modified from standard spec.

Dagon

Another question I have is; how much does insurance increase as you go up in size?

For instance, a 1.8L Toyota Celica is quite reasonable to insure, but how much more can you expect to pay for a 2.5L Skyline? And how about a 3L Supra? Just 20 or 30% more, or would it double?

Guy:Incognito

Well I'm paying €1640 on a 2l accord, I was messing and getting quotes on hibernian earlier and got a quote of €2900 for a 4.8l Porsche, which I would say is reasonable (for this country)

Lord Nikon

Stekelly wrote:

and got a quote of €2900 for a 4.8l Porsche

Wahoo, bring on the Porsche, maybe not a new new one, but still.

seamus

Stekelly wrote:

Well I'm paying €1640 on a 2l accord, I was messing and getting quotes on hibernian earlier and got a quote of €2900 for a 4.8l Porsche, which I would say is reasonable (for this country)

If you can afford a 4.8l Porsche, you can afford to insure it for three grand

LFCFan

the way I see it, bigger engines should mean less insurance. Think about it. Manouvers like Overtaking are much safer in more powerful cars. Also, if you hit someone doing 60 in a Micra or a Merc, the result is likely to be the same, whereas the driver and passengers in the Merc have more chance of survival. Bigger, more powerful cars tend to have better safety features aswell as better handling. I don't see the logic in charging more for insurance, bar the cost of replacing or fixing the car.

seamus

LFCFan wrote:

Bigger, more powerful cars tend to have better safety features

Better safety for *you*

I've been flicking around car insurance quotes for a while now, and I've noticed that it's the Third Party portion that increases as you increase the size/value of the vehicle. Fully comp stays static @ about €300 on top of the third party portion. With provisional drivers, obviously the fully comp bit is huge too.

LFCFan

seamus wrote:

Better safety for *you*

Yes, but like I said, if a Micra hits you at 100km/h you're just as dead as if you were hit by a Merc at 100km/h. The difference though is your passengers are safer in a Merc. At that Speed there is a great chance that your passengers will be badly hurt in the Micra so the insurance company has to pay out for the death of the pedestrian aswell as for the death/injuries of your passengers.

Praetorian

The insurance on diesels seems a little expensive considering they aren't quite as powerful as petrol engines.

My own insurance is €1950. I'm 23 and drive a 2 litre turbo (petrol).

iregk

A couple of factors come into play here. Basically anything they can do you on they will. Age, address (where the car is going to be kept), size of the engine, desirability of the car, experience of the driver and the biggest most contentious part: your sex.

A report carried out 2 years ago found that there was only a 1% difference between young women and young men being in and causing crashes but this report was covered up by the insurance companies. The reason being as long as there is the excuse that young male drivers are dangerous they can load premiums and make more money. If this report ever came/comes out the industry will be rocked and have to not only drop premiums but back pay for fraudulent claims.

I'm 26 and drive a 306 GTI and pay €900 fully comp. My advice, get an advanced driving licence and I don't mean the axa crash (pardon the pun) course I mean the real advanced driving licence. Legally with this insurance companies must treat you in the low risk category. If they dont you can challenge it. I have an advanced and rally licence hence the premium. But before I got that price Quinn wanted 3,5k for the 306. My mother to be insured on the car despite having 4 claims on her policy was quoted 800. When I challenged it through a solicitor on the grounds of how can I be more dangerous considering qualifications and no claims in 7 years than my mother who has 4 claims in 2 years and, get this, a provisional licence. Age and $ex was the answer so I challenged it under descrimination of sexual nature and also age generalisation and won. I now pay €900.

Praetorian

iregk wrote:

A couple of factors come into play here. Basically anything they can do you on they will. Age, address (where the car is going to be kept), size of the engine, desirability of the car, experience of the driver and the biggest most contentious part: your sex.

A report carried out 2 years ago found that there was only a 1% difference between young women and young men being in and causing crashes but this report was covered up by the insurance companies. The reason being as long as there is the excuse that young male drivers are dangerous they can load premiums and make more money. If this report ever came/comes out the industry will be rocked and have to not only drop premiums but back pay for fraudulent claims.

I'm 26 and drive a 306 GTI and pay €900 fully comp. My advice, get an advanced driving licence and I don't mean the axa crash (pardon the pun) course I mean the real advanced driving licence. Legally with this insurance companies must treat you in the low risk category. If they dont you can challenge it. I have an advanced and rally licence hence the premium. But before I got that price Quinn wanted 3,5k for the 306. My mother to be insured on the car despite having 4 claims on her policy was quoted 800. When I challenged it through a solicitor on the grounds of how can I be more dangerous considering qualifications and no claims in 7 years than my mother who has 4 claims in 2 years and, get this, a provisional licence. Age and $ex was the answer so I challenged it under descrimination of sexual nature and also age generalisation and won. I now pay €900.

Fair play to you. Do you have a link or a phone number regarding the advanced driving test?