OECD figures for 2004

bealtine

May 23rd 2005 OECD figures.

Yes here it is, what you've all been waiting for.
Yes Ireland is at the top of the OECD figures again
for the third year in a row. Speeds are now soaring
to 20Mbps. ADSL2 is now in every exchange in the country.

The combined TV and DSL packages are selling very well.
Fibre is currently being run to every home in Ireland.
The last link in the chain is to broadband enable some remote
islands off the west coast.

Uhuh oh wait thats not Ireland....
No we are languishing near the bottom again.

http://www.oecd.org/document/60/0,2340,en_2825_495656_2496764_1_1_1_1,00.html

At least we are better than some 3rd world countries and Greece

Makes me proud...

fatherdougalmag

And the 'Time Series' shows that, between 2003 and 2004, we showed the greatest increase across all countries. Maybe it's because we had so much catching up to do?

Sponge Bob

Behind Hungary , and all of the Western World , as always, but staying ahead of our peers in Poland and Slovakia, thank God !

SkepticOne

fatherdougalmag wrote:

And the 'Time Series' shows that, between 2003 and 2004, we showed the greatest increase across all countries. Maybe it's because we had so much catching up to do?

Mainly the huge backlog of people waiting for the services to become available I think.

cgarvey

fatherdougalmag wrote:

And the 'Time Series' shows that, between 2003 and 2004, we showed the greatest increase across all countries. Maybe it's because we had so much catching up to do?

It does, but more significanlty, I think, it shows that despite the highest growth last year, we are still in the same position. So we're not catching up. We're struggling to not fall behind.

Summary: We're not catching up

damien

While Ireland's rate seemed to increase very well when they talk about how we were in 2003, the OECD net increase table[1] shows that in fact we came 24th for increasing uptake in the OECD. Our household penetration rate still remains at the bottom of the OECD tables because all the other countries are increasing the number of broadband users just as dramatically.

It is not like all other countries have stopped going forward waiting for us to join them before they resumer, they're moving significantly ahead according to these figures.

[1] http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/39/59/34919362.xls

damien

IOFFL Press Release on this:

Consumer Group Critical of OECD Broadband Report Results

Consumer lobbying group IrelandOffline today criticised Ireland's dismal position in the latest OECD broadband rankings[1]. The rankings published by the OECD show that Ireland continues to languish near the bottom of the broadband table with 23 countries ahead of it for broadband uptake. The average broadband penetration rate across all OECD countries reached 10.2 subscribers per 100 inhabitants in 2004, up from 7.3 subscribers per 100 inhabitants in December 2003. Ireland, as of the end of 2004 had a penetration rate of 3.4 subscribers per 100 inhabitants. Korea remained in first position with 24.9 subscribers per 100 inhabitants.

Commenting on these figures Aidan Whyte from IrelandOffline said: "While Ireland's rate seemed to increase very well in 2004 the OECD net increase table[2] shows that we still came 24th for increasing uptake. Our household penetration rate still remains near the bottom of the OECD league tables because our competitors are all increasing the number of broadband users dramatically. The countries with which we need to compete and win against in the global economy are continuing to heavily innovate and invest in broadband infrastructure, while Ireland steers an apparently rudderless course which will severely impact on our competitiveness and attractiveness for high-wealth jobs and business."

Committee member Eamonn Wallace added "Minister Dempsey's unambitious target of 600,000 subscribers by the end of 2007 is not a significant target and falls short of targets set by previous Ministers but what is more troubling is that with only 145,000 subscribers as of April 2005, current growth rates show we will only have 310,000 subscribers by the end of 2007, almost 400,000 short of the Minister's targets[3]. In November 2004 Forfas in a report stated that Ireland should have had 450,000 subscribers as of November 2004[4]. Now it looks like we won't even have that by 2008."

Discussing the best options for making broadband rollout a success Whyte commented "Despite the MAN projects, the GBS projects and the rollout of broadband in Schools, Ireland is not doing any better. What is now needed is for the DCMNR, ComReg and all the stakeholders to review and act on the recommendations from Forfas and the Oireachtas Committee on Broadband. Unless these recommendations are taken seriously and as a matter of urgency we will continue to see reports showing Ireland as a broadband laggard."

[1] http://www.oecd.org/document/60/0,2340,en_2825_495656_2496764_1_1_1_1,00.html

[2] http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/39/59/34919362.xls

[3] Currently according to the recent reports from the Minister there are around 145,000 broadband subscribers. In Dec 2004 there were 131,000. 14,000 in 3 months suggests 56,000 in 12 months which would be much less than the '04 growth. Using this growth pattern we estimate that there are only going to be 310,000 connections by the end of 2007.

[4] http://www.forfas.ie/publications/broadbandbenchmarking041126/

bealtine

some more press

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single4883

eircomtribunal

From the Register
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/02/broadband_eu/

Europe reports broadband growth
By Tim Richardson
Published Thursday 2nd June 2005 09:53 GMT
The European Union (EU) may be facing a constitutional crisis of its own making, but at least the take-up of broadband among member states is growing fast.
The Commission has revealed there are now 40 million broadband lines in the EU - up 70 per cent on last year - with an extra 45,000 lines being added each day.
The fastest-growing broadband nation is The Netherlands, which yesterday told Europe to stuff its constitution where the stars don't shine.
Other fast-growing broadband nations include France - which rejected the constitution at the weekend - and the UK, which is looking increasingly unlikely to be given a chance to voice its opinion on the matter.
Said Information Society and Media Commissioner Viviane Reding: "These broadband figures are very impressive and extremely encouraging for the future. Broadband is central to Europe's competitiveness and prosperity.
"Growth in broadband supply and take-up leading to lower prices, greater choice and more innovative offerings for business and consumers. We need to keep up this momentum."

45 000 a day makes 1 350 000 new bb lines per month in the EU-25

In Ireland we are about onehundredandtenth the population of the EU-25; so to be at the EU bb growth rate we'd need over 3000 new bb connections per week.
As we want to make up for our lag we'd really want to have substantially more than 3000 new connections per week (and every week).
All that nonsense talk of recent (Doherty, McRedmond and Noel Dempsey in Galway etc) that we were kind a little bit late, but were now really catching up should not be tolerated.

David McRedmond had the neck to l...sorry, talk about how we had now overtaken other countries with broadband.

The "broadband penetration net increase" figures in the OECD report (linked to above) show clearly that even with our net increase figures we are below the OECD average.

P.

eircomtribunal

Article on ENN about the latest EU broadband league table showing of Ireland.
http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9609798.html

Ireland disappoints in broadband survey
Friday, June 03 2005
by Ciara O'Brien

Ireland is lagging behind in Europe when it comes to broadband penetration, despite an increase in take-up of high-speed internet access in the EU.

For the record 3 June

That's according to a European Union survey released on Thursday by Information Society and Media Commissioner Viviane Reding, on high-speed internet connections. The figures showed that there are now 40 million broadband lines in the EU. This represents an increase of 70 percent on last year. An average of 45,000 new broadband lines are added every day throughout the EU, which is up from 29,000 per day in 2003.

Out of 25 countries in the survey, Ireland placed a disappointing 19th. Ireland now stands behind countries such as Latvia, Slovenia and Estonia when it comes to broadband take-up.

The lack of broadband penetration in Ireland has been attributed to a number of factors in the past, including high prices and poor infrastructure. In contrast, market competition to provide consumers with faster, lower-priced access is believed to be responsible for the surge in broadband take-up throughout Europe.

The survey found that the Netherlands was the fastest growing country for broadband take-up; the country currently has a take-up rate of 19 percent. Denmark comes a close second with 18 percent while other strong performers include Belgium, Sweden and Finland.

A recent OECD survey ranked Ireland 24th out of 27 countries in terms of broadband penetration, with only 34 connections per 1,000 users. However, broadband operators are attempting to redress the balance, with BT Ireland urging homes and businesses whose phone lines were rejected for broadband in the past to reapply for testing.

Recent reports also claim that Eircom plans to introduce a new programme to upgrade phone lines that were previously unsuitable for broadband. Customers who want to avail of high-speed broadband would have engineers sent to their premises to carry out the necessary works. Those who wish to opt for a rival carrier such as BT Ireland would also be able to avail of the upgrade.

The reports point out that about 22 percent of phone lines in Ireland are currently unable to carry broadband. It is unclear how much the Eircom initiative will improve the situation with reports indicating that even after the upgrade programme, 9 percent will still be unable to get the service due to their distance from the local exchange.

Same as in the IT: Ciara falls for Eircom's misinformation about "22% of lines in Ireland currently unable to carry broadband", when in fact only 60% can currently carry broadband.
Normally one can email reply to the ENN journalists. There is no email set up for Ciara O'Brien though.


P.

Blaster99

How many PC's are there per 100 inhabitants in Ireland and how does that compare with the OECD?

Sovjohn

Yes, indeed, I wouldnt expect Greece to be any higher than that.

We may have a 384/128 line (no caps...no limits on data whatsoever) for circa 40 E / month, but its down right frivolous...512 costs double this, 1024 quadruple this, etc, etc.

Bleh.

eircomtribunal

Blaster99 wrote:

How many PC's are there per 100 inhabitants in Ireland and how does that compare with the OECD?

We've a PC penetration of 47% of households.
• Denmark: 70%
• Finland: 51%
• Portugal: 33%
• Spain: 49%
• Sweden: 80%
• UK: 61%)
(Data from ComReg's "Forward-looking...doc, page 16")

We are already seeing a new line of excuse for failure from ComReg's side in trying to advance the argument that we, the population, are to blame for Ireland's broadband failure, because we have such a lousy adoption of PC use – and that this poor PC penetration level will hinder further bb progress.*

Looking at the figures above does not support this excuse: Finland with only marginally higher PC penetration levels is one of the big bb successes (15 bb connections/100 inhabitants compared to our 3.5 bb connections/100 inhabitants).
Both Spain and Portugal, with about the same level of PC penetration have better broadband development (despite the massive drawback of not having English as their first language!).

Fact is: If our regulator had not fecked up our broadband development by allowing the incumbent to price us out of using the Internet (to put the more complex failure into one sentence), our PC penetration would have risen together with the rise of Internet/Broadband usage – as happened all around us.

We should not allow ComReg to use the argument of our relatively low PC penetration as an excuse for its past, present and future failure. Rather we should hang our low PC penetration figures as another weight around the regulatory body's neck to help this failed institution sink faster.


*"Broadband penetration is however likely to be partially limited by PC penetration which is currently at approximately 47% of households." (ComReg "Forward looking...", page 14) is just one example.

P.

Blaster99

So why is broadband penetration so miserable here then? The base price of ADSL isn't five times that of Finland (probably about the same), availability isn't a fifth of Finland either, probably about 30% worse. Where Ireland is usually far behind is in the higher spec packages but that doesn't really explain why the ordinary Joe Soap isn't signing up to broadband. Perhaps Irish people just aren't interested?

eircomtribunal

Blaster99 wrote:

Perhaps Irish people just aren't interested?

They were not given a chance to get interested.

All around us people adopted the Internet because they were allowed to do so.

Here the regulator turned a blind eye when the incumbent priced Joe Soap out of using the net and getting used to the net.
Do you remember the Regulator's reaction when Esat "had" to dump us off-peak flat rate ("no-limits")users: Etain said Esat had nobody to blame but itself, because it knew about the underlying pricing structure. The extremely important early adopters who were prepared to pay 20 punts for a slow off-peak service were walloped. It was back to pay-by the minute – poison for Internet adoption.

To this day we've not even got this 2001 offer back. ComReg's version of FRIACO is a failure. With a stagnant 6% of Internet usage, or some 96,500 customers (and that includes the mini-users on the 25 off-peak hours packages) FRIACO is below the 9% of customers who are still on the rip-off "net-subscription" package, where they pay some € 18.44 per month + by the minute charges.

With our low Internet usage – about which ComReg and the ODTR have consistently misinformed the public – of some 36% (and keep in mind that many of those are minimal users, checking their email once a week etc) we have unfortunately no chance to catch up on the broadband front.

The Internet penetration rate is the basis for the development of broadband. (Not universally true; France is one notable exception, where very cheap and very high speed Broadband which includes TV channels, has catapulted the bb penetration figures above what could have been expected from their Internet penetration figures).

From the text of the 2002 online petition (About a thousand of online petitions were sent back in 2002 to Ministers Hanafin, Ahern and to Etain Doyle of ComReg and while the action caused some stir, the proposals of the petition were not taken seriously.) you can see how we were priced out of using the net:

Cost of *one-day* modem Internet access in the Republic of Ireland: EUR 40
Cost of *two-month* modem Internet access in Northern Ireland and the UK: EUR 40.

While I seldom look back at the Eircomtribunal pages it is amazing how relevant some of it was and still is. I'd rather preferred not to be able to have to say: Told you so.

http://www.eircomtribunal.com/counterstrike_a1_petition.html

The demand in this ET article of 2002 is still valid three years later, albeit the price tag for bb has to be lower by now:
The merely to catch up with our neighbours resolute steps are now necessary: FRIACO at 10 euros for the consumer and broadband at 30 euros for the consumer via a wholesale product. And there is not a moment to lose.

One thing is for sure:
Even with a reformed regulator (and we see no evidence that this is in the pipeline) it would take years for Ireland to move into the middle field of broadband countries. Being at the top 10% of the OECD is out of the question, being within the top ten of the OECD countries is also out of the question.
At a bb penetration level of between 20 and 25 connections per 100 inhabitants the market is saturated, as SKorea shows (they had lower net bb growth lately than even Ireland). So Ireland will unavoidably catch up at some stage with broadband penetration, but that is no consolation.

P.

DonegalMan

Blaster99 wrote:

So why is broadband penetration so miserable here then?

I think there's a 'critical mass' aspect to availability.

I know quite a few people in Northern Ireland who little over a year or so ago couldn't have told you what Broadband is but now have it in their homes.

The fact that it is 100% available in NI creates a feeling that it's a fundamental service that everyone should have - which, of course it is! - and people feel deprived if they haven't got it.

The same people that I know, once they have got Broadband, become really enchanted with it and have become regular PC users.

Someone elsewhere in this thread has talked about PC penetration - the simple answer to this is that there is very little motivation for many people to have a PC at home unless they have a Broadband Internet connection.

I would like to see some figures on PC sales in NI and the impact of Broadband, I know a few people who have bought a PC whom I wouldn't have expected to, just to get Broadband.

eircomtribunal

DonegalMan wrote:

I think there's a 'critical mass' aspect to availability.

Surely full availability would help.
Eircom's "amber" programme will not do much with regards to this. It is supposed to bring down the failure rate to 11% of lines on bb enabled exchanges.

We are told that around 80% of lines are now on broadband enabled exchanges. With an eventual 11% failure rate that would give as a theoretical bb availability of around 70%. Even if this was correct – and I doubt it very much, it would still be dismal.

We don't need "amber" we need "green"..

P.

Solair

I'm a bit sceptical about the accuracy of the PC (or Mac) ownership figures for Ireland. They just don't "feel" right.

Who compiles them? How are they compiled etc etc ? If they are really that low, why? Doesn't quite add up.

Also, broadband services tend to lead to increased PC (or Mac) ownership as there's a reason for having a computer.

I sometimes wonder if computers are marketed very hard here. They're far easier to buy elsewhere. Ireland, until very recently, had a dismal lack of consumer electronics outlets. Lots of pokey former "TV Shops"... and very little else.

There's been very little in the way of decent consumer-orientated mass-market computer retailing until very recently and we seem to only have 2 high profile direct sales channels i.e. Dell.ie and apple.com/ie

There's also very little done to encourage uptake of computers or to create an e-island.

Perhaps we could look at reducing VAT on IT products and broadband / internet to encourage growth e.g. maybe charge it at the lower rate ?
I mean, we're in a bit of a crisis here! This is BAAAAD for the economy.

There might be some logic to incentivising the rollout of broadband too... i.e. perhaps tax breaks for the companies that *ARE* doing something about it.

eircomtribunal

Solair wrote:

I'm a bit sceptical about the accuracy of the PC (or Mac) ownership figures for Ireland. They just don't "feel" right.

Who compiles them? How are they compiled etc etc ? If they are really that low, why? Doesn't quite add up.

Those figures are from the CSO, from their ITC data here
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/industry/2004/ictireland2004.pdf

See page 15:
% of all households with computers:
1998: 18.6%;
2000: 32.5%;
2003: 42.2%;
2004: 46.2%

Our computer penetration is so low as a consequence of our failed Internet and Broadband access policies/regulations.

P.

Cork

If we had available and cheap broadband - It would encourage people to buy computers.

For downloading music or for education.

E Government is not been taken up as a result of the lack of broadband.

But I think the tide has turned and the Government cannot ignore bodies like the OECD.

eircomtribunal

eircomtribunal wrote:

Our computer penetration is so low as a consequence of our failed Internet and Broadband access policies/regulations.
P.

Also an eye opener concerning the situation we are in, on page 22:

Average hours [of Internet usage] per week
hours..........2003...........2004


1-4.............503.9..........614.5
5-9.............123.3..........141.1
10-29..........144.9..........146.3
30-49...........40.5............22.7
50+.............39.2............18.2
H not stated..44.4............63.7
All persons who used the internet in previous 3 months
.................896.2.........1,006.4

The percentage of people using the Internet for longer hours, from 10 to 50+hours per week has decreased from 2003 to 2004.

60% are using the Internet for 1-4 hours per week only.
They will not go for broadband in a hurry.
If they used it on peak-time it would cost them between [4x1x€2.94(eircom "free" peak-time hourly dial-up price) =] €11.76 and [4x4x€2.94 =] € 47.04 per month.

If they used it off-peak it would cost them between [4x1x€0.75(eircom "free" off-peak hourly dial-up price) =] €3 and [4x4x€0.75 =] €12 per month.

P.

Cork

eircomtribunal wrote:

The percentage of people using the Internet for longer hours, from 10 to 50+hours per week has decreased from 2003 to 2004.

P.

They probably do not use it other than email.

Downloading an MP3 tune is not worth the hassle.

Downloading a report - you might as well go to the pub for a few drinks and come back when the document is downloaded.

It is only with affordable and available broadband that people will see the merit of the web - using it for e government, down loading music, education etc.

eircomtribunal

An article worth reading about the bb situation in the UK in the Sunday Times:

June 05, 2005

Focus: The broadband battle of Britain

More than 7m Britons have high-speed internet access and prices keep falling as bandwidth keeps rising. Now the fight is on to use broadband to pump a host of services into homes. Report by Paul Durman

In Britain today, a new customer switches over to a broadband internet connection every 10 seconds. After spluttering unenthusiastically into life five years ago, Broadband Britain has finally arrived in earnest, opening up new possibilities for music and entertainment, online shopping and more.

Today more than 7.4m computer users are connected to the internet with a high-speed broadband connection. According to BT, the number of broadband subscribers now exceeds those using “narrowband” dial-up services.

Gavin Patterson, managing director of BT’s consumer division, said: “We have passed a tipping point. We are beyond the early adopters and very much into the mass market.

“Broadband is becoming a must-have. This year and the beginning of next year is the key land-grab for customers.”

And as competition hots up, consumers are being bombarded with offers of lower prices, or higher speeds for data transfer, and sometimes both.

Last week NTL, the cable- television and telephony company, set a new benchmark when it offered a 1 megabit/second (Mb/s) connection for £9.99 a month, with the installation and equipment thrown in free. That is two-thirds of the £14.99 price of the Anytime dial-up service from Wanadoo, which still has 1.7m of its 2.4m customers on dial-up. A 1Mb/s connection is about 20 times faster than dial-up.

Until two years ago, most broadband users were paying about £30 a month for a 512 kilobit/second (Kb/s) connection. The NTL deal is offering twice the speed for a third of the cost.

Bill Goodland, NTL’s internet director, said: “We are very keen to encourage new customers to move to broadband as quickly as possible. There are still 7m dial-up homes in Britain. When you ask those people how much they are paying for internet access, anything in the broadband market is still quite a big jump (in price).”

The dial-up customers that NTL, Wanadoo and BT are trying to persuade to switch often have only a hazy idea of what a broadband connection might offer them. The widely held belief among internet service providers (ISPs) is that once consumers have experienced broadband, they will be very reluctant to give it up, even to save a few pounds a month.

The advantages start with an “always-on” connection, and easier web-surfing. But the real benefits lie in opening up capabilities that are all but impossible over a dial-up connection: the ability to e-mail photographs to relatives, to download music, to watch video clips, to play electronic games with friends (or strangers) on the other side of the world.

David Ferguson, marketing director of Bulldog Communications, the broadband company owned by Cable & Wireless, said a high-speed connection changes the way people use the internet: “We are seeing more shopping activity. We are seeing kids, and others, downloading huge quantities of music for their MP3 players. People are seeking out other forms of entertainment — DVDs, video, whatever.”

Industry executives report that broadband is making the computer more central to modern family life, eating into the time previously reserved for watching broadcast television. The trend is set to continue as increases in bandwidth (or speed) make it easier to deliver high-definition video pictures.

BT and Wanadoo, which is owned by France Telecom, are developing TV and video-ondemand services for broadband.

Patterson said BT was developing a set-top box that would enable broadband users to watch films and other video entertainment, delivered over a high-speed internet connection, on their televisions.

This initiative could pose a challenge to Sky, NTL and Telewest, which currently charge for inflexible bundles of TV channels. BSkyB, the company behind Sky television, is 35% owned by News Corporation, parent of The Sunday Times.

Patterson said: “There are a lot of customers who want more entertainment and services but don’t like the commitment of an ongoing subscription.” Consumers could be offered the chance to pay for only those films or programmes that interested them.

It is not difficult to see the commercial potential of this broadband world. What is hard to understand is why BT did not grasp the opportunities more clearly back in 2001.

IT WAS less than four years ago that Sir Peter Bonfield, then BT’s chief executive, suggested the problem with Britain’s broadband market was essentially a lack of demand. He told the Royal Academy of Engineering in October 2001: “Supply of broadband has been a preoccupation, when demand is the main long-term issue.”

At the time, Britain had only 160,000 broadband users — one of the lowest adoption rates among OECD countries, and an embarrassment to Tony Blair’s vision of Broadband Britain. BT’s decision to introduce broadband at a price of £50 a month may have contributed.

The first attempt to introduce local-loop unbundling — giving rivals access to BT’s local exchanges — collapsed amid chaos and recrimination. Unbundling was supposed to usher in a new era of infrastructure-based competition. Without it, leading companies such as AOL and Wanadoo (then called Freeserve) were left dependent on BT, having to resell BT’s wholesale product on unfavourable terms. With little scope for making money, the UK broadband market took off slowly.

It was only when Ben Verwaayen took over as BT’s chief executive in February 2002 that things started to change. Verwaayen put broadband at the centre of his strategy for revitalising the struggling telecoms giant. Broadband sales accelerated as Tiscali and others cut the monthly price below £20. The market was stimulated again last year when Ofcom, the industry regulator, forced BT Wholesale to lower its prices, thereby reviving interest in unbundling. Wanadoo, Tiscali and Bulldog are among the ISPs investing heavily to put their equipment into hundreds of BT exchanges.

They will join UK Online, part of Easynet, which already runs advanced broadband services from 232 exchanges, having been the only telecoms company to struggle through the earlier version of unbundling.

Two months ago, BT hit its 5m target for broadband lines a year early. In addition to those receiving ADSL broadband over BT’s copper wires, NTL and Telewest supply broadband to a further 2.2m customers.

BT now presents broadband roll-out as a triumph. It suggests it has been adopted faster than other important consumer technologies, such as the television, the mobile phone, the CD player and the video recorder.


BROADBAND speeds are increasing. The leading companies, including BT, are already upgrading the 512Kb/s services that were standard until last year to 1Mb or 2Mb/s, usually for no additional charge. Broadband appears to breed a hunger for more bandwidth.

Last week Bulldog announced the launch of an 8Mb/s service for as little as £15.50 a month. Although usage is limited to eight hours a month at the introductory price, Ferguson said: “There’s a significant group of people who want to use high-speed broadband for the time they are online but don’t necessarily want to spend hours and hours online.”

Chris Stening, general manager of UK Online, the unbundling pioneer that has been offering an 8Mb/s service since last November, said the additional bandwidth was soon soaked up as wireless home networks allowed two or more members of the family to be online at any one time. “The iPod generation are used to downloading music. They are spending more time on the internet than watching the telly.”

Figures released by EMI last week showed that 13 to 24- year-olds now spend almost four times as much on music downloads as on CDs.

Higher speeds encourage a change in consumer behaviour. With an 8Mb/s connection it takes only five seconds to download a song, and not much more than a minute to download an album.

The small number of broadband users with connections faster than 2Mb/s has discouraged wider availability of high-quality video content. For example, iTunes, Apple’s music store, has fewer than 100 music videos available on its site.

This will soon change. In America, MTV recently introduced MTV Overdrive to provide broadband access to music videos, live performance, interviews and other programming.

In Britain, the BBC is working on its interactive media player. This will allow broadband users to download any programmes shown on BBC TV the previous week. Some analysts suggest the BBC may ultimately use the media player to make much of its archive available — perhaps free.

Broadband gives telecoms companies a chance to broaden their revenue streams, and get away from the price-led marketing that has bedevilled the industry.

Eric Abensur, chief executive of Wanadoo UK, plans to ward off inevitable price erosion by giving consumers “abundance” — more and more services for the same price. The £17.99 that used to buy 512Kb/s broadband now includes a 1Mb/s connection, a wireless router or modem, and free voice calls every evening and weekend.

For consumers, the deals will just keep getting better.

P.

Blaster99

Unless I run a web site or an ISP targetting Irish consumers, why would I care about broadband penetration as it happens? I don't really understand why the lack of broadband usage causes so much commentary here and requests for action. As a consumer I want availability, good product selection, and competition. I don't really care if Biddy down the road doesn't want broadband.

eircomtribunal

Blaster99 wrote:

As a consumer I want availability, good product selection, and competition.

Naturally.
The Broadband penetration rate is merely the proof of the pudding, or a measure of the result of the level of end-user bb availability and competitiveness of end-user bb offers and thus a valuable means for comparing the state of a country's broadband development.

P.

Solair

Blaster,

It causes commentry because it's symptamatic of problems within the market. As usage increases, demand for service increases and the availability and range of service increases to meet that demand.

If Biddy and all of her friends down the road don't want broadband the likelihood is that no commercial company's going to provide services just to suit your needs.

It's simple supply/demand economics.

----

On another point, I think the Irish ISP market has lacked competition for a long time and has also lacked any major marketing drives. The UK, and most of the rest of Europe and North America has tended to have huge players like MSN, AOL, Wanadoo, and now Yahoo as key players. Ireland's internet market started out as a bunch of small ISPs that got swallowed up by two rather unimaginative phone companies. The result has been a very stagnent low key market. Until a few months ago when eircom started very heavily pushing Broadband I don't think I have ever seen an Irish ISP advertise on TV or Radio. OK, IOL did some ads but they were very short runs and very low key. We've never ever had anything like the kind of campaigns that ran in the USA or the UK.

Couple that with the rather limited number of outlets selling computers and you might explain a lot of what's going on in terms of internet uptake and PC uptake generally.

The appitite has never really been whetted.

And to make matters even worse, until very recently Ireland had a very low penetration of credit cards mostly because the banks were not willing to give anyone a credit card unless you agreed to give them your first born kid and the deeds to your grandmother and the government in an attempt to frustrate e-commerce went and whacked a ridiuclous tax on them just as they were starting to take off.

On the debit card side of things we'd the bank's ultra low tech Laser card which wasn't usable internationally and was only availble to people who could prove creditworthiness due to the fact that the transactions arn't necessarily authorised online (i.e. you could spend more money than you have in your account)

All that WILL change this year, with the introduction of Maestro/Laser co-branded cards and Maestro debit cards that authorise every transaction so will be available to everyone.

The banks are also not exactly doing their best to facilitate online transactions e.g. I've seen posts here about cards being unverifiable due to the banks not having the necessary back office system to do address verification (this could also be a post-code related issue too...)

All of those factors have conspired to make the internet in Ireland rather less useful then it is elsewhere.

To compound the situation further, the number of online services available specifically targeting Irish customers is rather poor by comparision to our bigger neighbour. This is mostly being caused by all of the above (lack of demand), but is only making a bad situation much worse. With very few exceptions, most of the time Irish consumers are being forced to shop in Sterling or US$ and just being lumped in with the UK market.

Ryanair and aerlingus.com probabally have had more impact on internet usage in Ireland than probabally any other company. They've really opened people's eyes to e-commerce on a large scale.



----

If we want to see some improvements there are a whole load of e-commerce lubricating measures that have to be taken at government level. Analysing and removing all of the factors that are hindering uptake. We've been very sucessful, as a country, at doing this in other areas. What I would like to see is an organisation like Enterprise Ireland be set up to push e-commerce and internet usage and really get Ireland up to speed.
Broadband rollouts are only part of the picture... and won't happen properly unless the rest of the picture's looked at too.

It's a a much more complicated socio-economic issue as well as simply being a technical one.

As a young, English Speaking, very wealthy Western European country our internet and pc usage should be FAR higher so there's obviously something not quite right. Irish broadband uptake *should* be very high. There are however, a lot of factors distorting the market or preventing it from developing properly.

I would strongly welcome a big ISP coming in here! Eircom.net, IOL, UTV, etc are all rather amaturish offerings in terms of userfriendliness, content and marketing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that BT launches BT Yahoo! broadband... and perhaps Eircom might do a deal with someone else to provide good content.

If you want to see an example of a truely horrible portal, you only have to look at www.iol.ie very clumsey. Eircom.net's only marginally better and UTV makes me dizzy.

Cork

Blaster99 wrote:

I don't really care if Biddy down the road doesn't want broadband.

Biddy may decide to go for broadband - If it was available and competively priced.

E Government, Education etc may be open to the same Biddy.

jwt

Blaster, if you are living in an area with for example 1,000 households and immediately over 50% don’t have a computer then the possible number of customers for BB in that area is reduced to 500.

Add in a perceived expensive BB product (compared to those users’ current dial-up costs) and you can drop half again leaving you with 250 possible customers. Take out the 15% line fail rate and you’re down to roughly 200.

That’s what a BB provider is going to calculate their start up costs in your area for.

However if pc penetration was better, the price reduced and people were more aware of BB then it is not unrealistic to expect that number to be above 500 and have a greater chance of getting broadband in your area.



Solair, that’s a very succinct overview. Again we are in a catch 22 position. Why should companies and services bother spending money on Internet advertising, portals, e-commerce and internet services when so few people have a connection that would allow them to use it easily.

If you could magically give every household in Ireland access to BB for 3 months free trial you would see the take up of BB rocket. Once you use it nothing else will do.


John

Blaster99

It is available to a lot of people and the base packages are fairly reasonably priced by international standards, particularly in comparison to the cost of living here. There are clearly a lot of Biddies who can get broadband, who can afford it, but who can't be bothered. Is that Eircom's fault? I don't think so. Is that the government's fault? Don't know. Do I care? Not sure.

I appreciate that lack of penetration is a problem for ISP's like Eircom because they don't get as much return on their investment as they would like. That's a commercial problem for them. They've tried to drum up usage by doing free trials, free equipment, and free connections, and from what I know of what's available internationally, they've tried more than most. I see and hear an Eircom broadband ad roughly once a day. If people aren't biting, perhaps people aren't that into it? Ireland has lagged behind in every new technology I can think of and I've never really been struck by the nation's interest in new ways of doing things. Broadband isn't really all that unique.

jwt

I was referring to your comment..........

Blaster99 wrote:

Unless I run a web site or an ISP targetting Irish consumers, why would I care about broadband penetration as it happens? I don't really understand why the lack of broadband usage causes so much commentary here and requests for action. As a consumer I want availability, good product selection, and competition. I don't really care if Biddy down the road doesn't want broadband.

Blaster99 wrote:

It is available to a lot of people and the base packages are fairly reasonably priced by international standards, particularly in comparison to the cost of living here.

Agreed, although you have to factor in the high cost of line rent which bumps the total cost up way above the EU standard.

Blaster99 wrote:

There are clearly a lot of Biddies who can get broadband, who can afford it, but who can't be bothered.

Certainly are, but strangely enough old "Biddies" use it a lot more than you think

Blaster99 wrote:

Is that Eircom's fault? I don't think so. Is that the government's fault? Don't know. Do I care? Not sure..

Not blaming eircom for lack of interest although you could argue that persistant resistance to BB rollout in the past has caused it to be unavailable to more people thus delaying the "critical mass point". But it's not a major factor IMHO.(Note I am referring to people who can't be bothered here as opposed to those who would if they could)

Is it the Governments fault? Well they are certainly responsible for selling the network and causing a monopoly, failing to give the ComReg clear guidelines and support, to follow the Oireachtas report, the Forfas report, their own civil servants report. Anyone of these if even 50% implemented would have moved us light years ahead.

Can anyone tell me what DCMNR has done that is new in the last 12 months?

Actually since Mr Dempsey took office?

Is it the governments fault? How about largest contributing factor.


John

lucernarian

originally posted by Blaster99
Ireland has lagged behind in every new technology I can think of and I've never really been struck by the nation's interest in new ways of doing things.

Eh what about mobile phones??

Blaster99

Ireland lagged far behind there also. There was only Eircell and they wouldn't sponsor phones, a practice available practically everywhere else in Europe, and uptake was dismal. People in general also looked down on anyone who had a mobile phone.

Blaster99

3G is another example, talking about mobiles. That's been around for a couple of years in most countries. I believe of all "3"'s licenses (9 I think), Ireland is launching last. We're in the technological backwaters of Europe, that's just how it is.

eircomtribunal

Blaster99 wrote:

Is that Eircom's fault? I don't think so. Is that the government's fault? Don't know. Do I care? Not sure.
They've tried to drum up usage by doing free trials, free equipment, and free connections, and from what I know of what's available internationally, they've tried more than most. I see and hear an Eircom broadband ad roughly once a day. If people aren't biting, perhaps people aren't that into it?

On the risk of being seen as arrogant: Have to thank you for your posts, which painfully remind me about the mindset of many of the people in decision making positions, who are responsible for fecking up Ireland's entry into the IT future.
P.

Solair

On the mobile phones point.

The launch and uptake of mobile phone services in Ireland has never really lagged. Eircell did take a little longer than most to realise that they needed to subsidise handsets. The UK operators were a bit ahead in that regard as they'd had been competing head-to-head since the mid 1980s.

Ready to Go on 088 was one of the world's first prepaid cellular products and practically pioneered the whole idea of handing someone a phone nicely presented in a box with a charger, phone number and 20 quid credit.

When digifone went live, things got a lot more compeditive again.. particularly after SpeakEasy launched.

Eircell launched one of the earliest WAP services and certainly the first pre-pay wap and GPRS products.

3G is most certainly not late by any means either.

"3" launched very very early in a number of markets (the uk included) but had incrediably poor uptake until recently as their network and coverage was even worse than the early days of meteor. They only started making headway when they did a national roaming agreement with one of the big UK networks (O2 I think) the same way that Meteor did here!

Vodafone 3G has been the first serious 3G product to hit the market and that went live in Ireland at the same time as it went live in all of the first markets that vodafone launched it in.

3 Ireland's about to launch anytime soon and

3G mobile's no where near an everyday product in any country yet. It's still about 12 to 24 months off.

O2 has been playing it very safe with 3G generally in all of their markets.. They're likely to launch a 3G service in Ireland fairly soon and have also licenced iMode from DoCoMo... so you'll see a very fancy equivlant of Vodafone Live! on O2s handsets in the near future.

Meteor's also been sneekily investing in EDGE ([font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution)[/font] equipment which will allow them to provide almost 3G-like products over their network without a 3G licence. Edge connects at up to 384kbps
it's a LOT faster than GPRS, but slower than maxed out 3GSM UMTS connections. It'll still fast enough to basically stream video though which is all that really counts for a lot of the services.

---

On other telecommunications first (even though we might not be cutting edge now)

We were one of the first 4 countries to move to a fully digital telephone network (even if some of the local switches were still electromechanical the entire trunk system went digital and many of the local switches too at a time when most of the world was still using "step-by-step" switching)

We've more cable tv penitration than practically anyother country in western europe (Except holland)...
It's a crying shame that neither NTL nor Chorus had the ability to do anything with it though.

University College Cork's www.ucc.ie is one of the first pages to have ever gone on the internet!

So, we're not THAT much of a backwater...

damien

UCC was the 9th website to go online. Archive of first webpage here: http://imbolc.ucc.ie/oldmenu.html

The guy who put it up visits these parts nowand then, don't you Peter?

SkepticOne

eircomtribunal wrote:

Naturally.
The Broadband penetration rate is merely the proof of the pudding, or a measure of the result of the level of end-user bb availability and competitiveness of end-user bb offers and thus a valuable means for comparing the state of a country's broadband development.

I think take-up is becoming a goal to be achieved in its own right for which historical and current lack of availability is seen as only part of the problem. Some are also arguing that if demand can be raised then this might also increase availability.

Solair

There's no question that demand has to be raised. The mobile phone industry's a very good comparison.

It's not too long ago that no one could understand what anyone would want a mobile phone for. Now most of the population couldn't imagine life without one and don't know how they survived before they had one!

That dynamic doesn't exsist in the internet market in Ireland yet. We seem to have a small number of people who see the point of broadband and a large number of people who can't see the difference between a 56K modem and a 2mbit/s DSL line.

I think there's also an overplaying of "the evils of the interenet" to some extent too. I know several parents who are terrified to let a PC inside their home.

jwt

Solair wrote:

I think there's also an overplaying of "the evils of the interenet" to some extent too. I know several parents who are terrified to let a PC inside their home.

Agreed.

And for anyone who is wondering how to combat this or trying to help others there is ONE simple rule that cuts out 90% of worries.

It doesn't cost anything.

It doesn't require any technical knowledge.

It doesn't require draconian rules in the house.



Simply make sure that the PC is in a public part of the house, the kitchen, front room, hallway etc.

That way little johnny is far less likely to go "exploring" the bad lands

Once little johnny realises that Mammy or Daddy could walk in the door or glance up at the screen at any moment with zero notice, nasty little thoughts aren't acted on, chat rooms are more easily monitored etc.etc.

Email spam is another kettle of fish, but thats a different days topic.


John

lucernarian

Sorry for the off-topicness of this but the fact that many parents are so suspicious of computers and especially the internet is a crying shame considering the near-unlimited potential of the good these two things can do.

John, in the last post is 110% right as it's a simple and very effective idea yet not many people I imagine would think of doing that. If awareness was raised of ideas like that then many parents' concerns would be resolved.

I'd even go as far as to say, seeing how this seems to prevent many families from using the internet, that IrelandOffline itself could highlight this issue on an official level. Just my 2 c.

Blaster99

Little Johnny checking out Eastern Europe's finest is a fairly minor worry in comparison to Little Mary getting chatted up by the local paedophile... In fact, come to think of it, considering the lack of porn availability in Ireland (I'm refraining from the term "penetration"...) you'd think every male would get broadband...

I'd say if NTL/Merril Lynch Cable Ltd ever got their thumbs out and delivered on the bs and offered TV, cheap VoIP, and BB, then people could get into it. Is there anything other than pigheadedness that's preventing Eircom from doing a cable service over landlines? How much bandwidth does TV need?

jwt

It takes quite a while for a paedophile to "groom" a victim, typically several weeks to a few months.

If in that time Mammy and Daddy are keeping a benevolent eye on the PC they will be aware of developing relationships. However it is not particularly easy to spot a paedophile in conversation with a minor as they are very good at pretending to be the minors own age group.

But at least Mammy and daddy will know that person x is chatting with their child and if at all concerned can take steps to ensure that their child is warned, told that meetings with people online should only happen with adult supervision and if extremely worried can contact the authorities.

Some useful links

Hotline for reporting child porn and offers advice about chat rooms etc

Internet advisory board Ireland Offers good advice, offers loads of links and are known to be very helpful assisting people to contact the relevant department

Barnardos Need I say more

Internet Service Providers Association of Ireland offer some useful services and are receptive to concerned parents

And just not to be all negative some child friendly search engines

Yahooligans

Surfmonkey

And some filtering software

ICRAplus

CyberPatrol

Cybersitter

Net Nanny


john

Cryos

Blaster99 wrote:

How much bandwidth does TV need?

Just going on terms of streaming images from the web 1800kbps or there about's is what we would stream images at. However it entirely depends on what your going to stream as in the size and lenght.

Moriarty

I think sky use 2mbit mpeg4 streams for most of the channels on sky digital, with sky news, sky one, the movie channels and 2/3 others being sent at 4mbit.