Scumbags -vs- Knifes?

Undercoverguy

A mate of mine was walking home last friday in the Donaghmede/Killbarrack area and was the victim of a mugging followed by a pretty bad beating. So bad a beating that he only got outta hospital on monday night. This is his second time in the last 2 years this has happened to him and twice he was taken to hospital, and altho the items stolen such as his Mobile and Wallet are replaceable his life obviously isnt. So tomorrow morning he intends on buying a item for "Defence".... A knife.

No altho im totally against all voilence, i agree with what he's about to do. (contradicting myslef i know). When he gets this knife tomorrow he plans on taking it everywhere he goes cos it's small enough to carry around in his pocket yet intimidating enough to (in theory) get muggers and scumbags to back off.

In Dublin where voilent mugging is on the rise every day is it that bad where we now need to carry weapons around with us to protect and defend ourself?

This is the kind of knife he intends on getting or something smaller: http://mercury.walagata.com/w/justindublin/K18.jpg

StupidLikeAFox

hes ****ed if he stabs someone, then he is the scumbag

JackKelly

If he pulls a knife on 4 knackers, they'll more than likely each pull a knife on him. And they'll be pissed off.

herobear

he's basically asking to get mugged/arrested with that.....

Guy:Incognito

Problems might arise if they are also carrying a knife, which could turn a beating into death. Plus , faced with the situation of a victim pulling a knife on them, the scumbags will probably be quicker to use theirs than someone who isnt used to carrying/weilding a knife and is carrying it as a detterant.

Kevin_rc_ie

the problems here are:

is he going to walk around with tihs knife all the time? maybe get caught with it? if it's big he'd get in trouble.

what happens if he is walking around with it, get's an attempted mugging and stabs someone, or worse get's stabbed with it?

I personally think, carrying a knife would be one of the worse forms of self-defense. Carrying a gun, would be pretty useful but a knife, hmm doubt it.

has he considered toughening himself up? getting into boxing? bjj?

billy the squid

he doesnt even have to use it. If the guards stop it and find it on him its curtains.

Pet

Undercoverguy wrote:

A mate of mine was walking home last friday in the Donaghmede/Killbarrack area and was the victim of a mugging followed by a pretty bad beating. So bad a beating that he only got outta hospital on monday night. This is his second time in the last 2 years this has happened to him and twice he was taken to hospital, and altho the items stolen such as his Mobile and Wallet are replaceable his life obviously isnt. So tomorrow morning he intends on buying a item for "Defence".... A knife.

No altho im totally against all voilence, i agree with what he's about to do. (contradicting myslef i know). When he gets this knife tomorrow he plans on taking it everywhere he goes cos it's small enough to carry around in his pocket yet intimidating enough to (in theory) get muggers and scumbags to back off.

In Dublin where voilent mugging is on the rise every day is it that bad where we now need to carry weapons around with us to protect and defend ourself?

I think so.... Thats why i plan on getting one too!

This is the kind of knife he intends on getting or something smaller: http://mercury.walagata.com/w/justindublin/K18.jpg

If someone pulled that knife on me, I'd laugh at them.

He'd be much better off getting his hands on some pepper spray or a taser. Less legal, but if you get someone with them then you also would have it easier in court (chances are you're not going to kill someone with a taser/pepper spray).

jesus_thats_gre

He would wanna get a knife that they cant take of him and stab him with it..

Lets face it, 3 or 4 lads against 1 with a knife. He may get one of them but the other 2 or 3 will overpower him before he can do anything else..

When they see their buddy lying on the ground with a stab wound, they will happily return the favour.

Crash

if you have no idea what you're doing with a knife and your attacker has even once had to deal with a knife, you are royally and trully ****ed.

Kevin_rc_ie

or tell him to learn pencak silat

Our man in Havana

Call that a knife this is a knife!

LegacyUser

anyone who carrys a knife is a scumbag, pure and simple. a mate of mine had a knife pulled on him by some dirtbag where i live so he took it off him and punched him in the face. my mate is now being done for assault. wheres the fúcking justice in that!?! :mad:

kasintahan

Bad idea.

Most "defensive" weapons can be turned into offensive ones by the agressor.
They are the more likely to be experienced with knives, blades and other weapons - they will either know how to disarm you or be carrying their own, either way you risk ending up with a knife in you (vs. a possible beating).

Secondly it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon. If you get caught you risk prosecution. If you use it in a confrontation you will be seen as the agressor by the courts.

Buy yourself an alarm and take the usual precautions. Avoid looking like a 'mark' (potential victim).

Kevin_rc_ie

rule no 1 of fighiting with knaks.

do a legger when you're done and deny everything.

Our man in Havana

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

rule no 1 of fighiting with knaks.

do a legger when you're done and deny everything.

Agreed beat the knackers at there own game. In the same situation they would do the same.

steppen

If he plans on using a knife he should learn how to use it, also the the knife that you linked in the picture would be more suitable if it had a finger loop in it, this provides an easier starting point for beginners

pwd

knife is a stupid idea.

pepper spray is better, even though it still isn't legal in ireland.
Does no actual damage but disables them for long enough. Also surprises the hell out of them because most people here haven't seen it before. Also well suited for use when outnumbered. Also you can be standing a good bit away from your target to use it.

Used to have a can of "Sabre Red" spray. It fired a stream 8 metres when you pressed the cap. I used it once when a group of scumbags came up to me and my friend on Brown's Road in Waterford. They had already swung a punch at him when i pulled it. Sprayed two of them and shouted at my friend to run and we did. They didn't know what had happened them.

So in other words: It works.

Knives really bad idea for reasons already mentioned.

Crucifix

Never carry a weapon you don't know how to use, and more importantly, aren't fully prepared to use.

Canis Lupus

LOL, getting a knife as self defence is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of.

You can't use one and neither can your friend. Neither can I to be honest. It's nice to look at movies and think that's really easy and you wave a knife around and millions of baddies fall over dead straight away but if your mate even gets the chance to pull the knife in a fight he is going to hurt one of them possibly, then have the knife taken off him, then stabbed to death until he dies from it.

In conclusion if he carries a knife for self defence he is just showing how stupid he is.

vibe666

trust me, a knife is really the wrong way to go.

too many things can go wrong.

if he gets mugged again and pulls it, one of a few things will happen.

1. he'll scare them off (okay, one good thing).
2. he'll provoke them and either one of them or him will get stabbed (bad either way, he'll either end up in prison, hospital or dead).
3. he'll get stopped by the garda and end up in court and get the chance to 'defend' himself there.

If he has to do SOMETHING, then get him to find a good pepper spray (the internet is a wonderful thing). all good, very little bad, and you can keep your distance while you put them down in a non-lethal way, and still make them suffer for being scumbags.

kasintahan

As said above. Never draw a weapon you're not prepared to use.

Even pepper spray can be iffy, there are studies to suggest that women who try to use it (presumably against a stronger male) tend to get it turned on themselves. A lot more pleasant than an knife wound though.

Sherifu

really.bad.idea

Töpher

Canis Lupus wrote:

then have the knife taken off him, then stabbed to death until he dies from it.

Stupid idea. Scumbags have probably spent their lives fighting etc etc, they will know how to turn a blade on you no bother. One on his own may not, but four or five of them, and you're dog food. (And not the good Pedigree stuff! ). Also, they'll be able to tell wether or not you're prepared to use it, and either way, it'll piss the scummy-little-cúnts-that-deserve-to-rot-in-hell off.

Pepper spray is a better bet. Beef yourself up in a gym. Get fit, learn to run.

Have a hotkey bound to 999 on your phone if needs be. Means you can just hold the button in your pocket, and start shouting!

Dyr

Pet wrote:

If someone pulled that knife on me, I'd laugh at them.

then you dont have the first clue, cheapest piece of ***p knife will stitch you just as well most others


Carrying a knife is a bad idea, not legal, not justifiable in court, and if you dont have a clue what youre doing likely to cut yourself while using it. And thats without the moral consequences to consider .
tbh pepper spray aint a whole lot better, you're still screwed if you're caught and theres no guarantee it'll work or you'll even be able deploy it when needs be

You mate is looking for a talisman to make him feel safe, and thats all a weapon without training and some serious thought on its use is, a talisman.
I'm speaking from experience here, i used to carry a balisong when i was younger, it gets to the stage that at the first hint of trouble you're already reaching for it.

rubadub

Only a scumbag will use a knife. If he has one I bet he wouldn't use it. You can easily kill with a knife, if you stab somebody, even in self defence you will be viewed as a killer in court. At what stage of attack does he think it is acceptable to use the knife? Guy says "gimme your phone" and you stab him? Or do you wait until they are beating the **** out of you?
If you want to beat somebody a screwdriver with the end sawn off it effective, leave about 1/2" of the metal shaft on it. If you hit somebody in the body it is not ong enough to do internal damage but can fracture bones and hurt. It is really just an extension of your fist.

Spray somebody with pepper spray or stun them with a gun and the courts will go far easier on you since they are both recognised as self defence devices which will cause no permanent harm, even if they are illegal. Fill an atomiser with tobasco.

My favourite defence- act like a retard "my mommy says I mustnt talk to strangers", no scumbag wants to brag to his mates "I robbed a retard last night got his phone and gave him a good kicking"

skywalker

Canis Lupus wrote:

then stabbed to death until he dies from it.

As opposed to being stabbed to death and living?

Blisterman

Why is pepper spray and Tazers illegal in ireland? They're not lethal, and a lot safer than knives.

Waltons

I think it's been established that: normal person + knife = bad
The difference between your friend having a knife and a knack having a knife is that your friend, most likely, isn't going to want to cause a good deal of damage to another person (unless he's a scumbag himself). As already mentioned the mugger/knack/whatever is going to be a lot more willing to cause damage to someone and if they see someone brandishing a knife at them chances are they'll just get more aggressive.
This kinda thing has been discussed before and it's always the same conclusion: Don't get a knife for self defence

toiletduck

knives are a bad idea, he should go with something more user friendly like a vial of anthrax

sleepwalker

a knife as a self defence weapon is fairly ridiculous your friend is going to end up cutting himself. get some peper spray instead or even better option is to run, knackers will generally give up after the first 10 seconds of sprinting

Eoghan-psych

pwd wrote:

knife is a stupid idea.

pepper spray is better, even though it still isn't legal in ireland.
Does no actual damage but disables them for long enough.

Cheap travel-size deodorant or hairspray is perfectly legal, and would do the same job. Also, would work from a longer range than that knife. Unlike the knife, it'll put the scum out first touch - stab it with that sort of knife and they aren't going down for a while. Blind it and that is the end of its fight. Especially using an aerosol - you'll wind it too.

failing that carry a whacking big stick, wear a hoody and buy a burberry cap - that way they'll think you're one of them :-)

Einstein

how old is your mate that bought this little thing?

magpie

Why is pepper spray and Tazers illegal in ireland? They're not lethal, and a lot safer than knives.

Because knackers would use them to mug people, that's why. At least having to buy it over the internet establishes some kind of 'them and us' defence mechanism as you need a) internet connection and b) credit card

What your mate really wants is a snubnose .38 police special. He can empty 6 chambers into them then pistol whip any survivors. Oh, hang on that's only in films...

Dyr

Have you ever sprayed someone with an aerosole?? When even pepper spray isn't gauranteed to put someone down, how reliable do you think a can of lynx is?? or how much distance will it still have an effect at??

I cant get over people who waffle on about what's gauranteed to work..have they tried this out often enough in real life to vouch for it?? course they have :rolleyes:

Eoghan-psych

Bambi wrote:

Have you ever sprayed someone with an aerosole?? When even pepper spray isn't gauranteed to put someone down, how reliable do you think a can of lynx is?? or how much distance will it still have an effect at??

I cant get over people who waffle on about what's gauranteed to work..have they tried this out often enough in real life to vouch for it?? course they have :rolleyes:

It's not guaranteed - never said it was.

What it *is* is legal - in *stark* contrast to his other idea. The chances of him taking out a mugger are *vanishingly* small no matter what he's carrying - he needs, as someone pointed out, a talisman.

A can of hairspray fulfils that role, and won't get him arrested. Win win.

vibe666

but still effectively an offensive weapon.

nothign to stop scumbags from spraying old ladies with pepper spray to rob them is there!

magpie

TBH your best bet is to take up running, so you can effectively take to your heels when needs be.

Those knacks are super fit though from legging it from the cops. You should see the speed they take off when emerging from a shop on Grafton St with a trackie top full of baseball caps.

Canis Lupus

Bambi wrote:

Have you ever sprayed someone with an aerosole?? When even pepper spray isn't gauranteed to put someone down, how reliable do you think a can of lynx is?? or how much distance will it still have an effect at??

I cant get over people who waffle on about what's gauranteed to work..have they tried this out often enough in real life to vouch for it?? course they have :rolleyes:

I wonder how many people have been mugged. I haven't but if I was gonna do it with my mates I wouldn't go up to someone and say "I'm going to mug you now, I'll give you 10 seconds to obtain your pepper spray".

If I was doing it I'd knock someone over the head from behind, kick the crap outta them then rob them. Nasty people don't usually hang on if you ask them to wait while you get your spray outta your bag.

Einstein

how bout a bottle lynx and a lighter...nothing illegal about a deoderant or a lighter, but Together...a powerful flamethrower so that you can see the knackers running all the way down the road....hehe!

Keyzer

Thats a really bad idea...
I would convince your mate to lose the knife and invest in self defence classes instead. Or get a suit of armour. Anything but a knife...
Normally, scumbags will just kick the **** out of you when they attack, but if you pull a knife then they'll destroy your friend, permanently...

Dyr

Eoghan-psych wrote:

It's not guaranteed - never said it was.

.

You didnt?

"Unlike the knife, it'll put the scum out first touch. Blind it and that is the end of its fight. Especially using an aerosol - you'll wind it too."

both are absolute statments and both are wrong IMO

Rhyme

Take self defense lessons on how to cope with attacks from behind, wear shoes suitable for running when in a bad neighbourhood, get fit and learn to shout really loud... if the attacker knows that support is on its way for the mark the usual response is to panic and either run or fumble what they are attempting to take from you.

Theres tons of other little 'strategies' that work, one of my favourites is to lash out at the 'alpha' of the group and run...

That said, my experience with being mugged isnt extensive and really only ranges from verbal threats and one person with their hand in their pocket saying they had a knife...

All in all, carrying a weapon is never a good idea.

Larianne

With carrying a knife, if caught in any situation - searched by the gardai, being mugged etc. you will be screwed. You can't argue having a knife or any weapon in your procession! And the scumbag who is attacking you is more likely to know how to use a knife and probably is carrying one. And going up against a knacker, you are just staying in the situation longer. You need to get away from the situation as fast as you can!

If you do feel nervous, I'd argee with other posters and get mace/pepper spray. If attacked you can spray them and not do much damage to them but run away. Also shouting/raising your voice is something to do aswell. My brother was approached by a guy and he just shouted " I don't have any money" and the mugger ran off. If you live in a bad area don't walk around on your own or take shortcuts. If you see a gang of guys walk across the street or go a different direction.

I can understand why our friend is getting a knife. I'd want to injure any knacker that came near me, but in the end the person who tries to defend themselves always seems to be worse off in the end.

vibe666

if you've got the balls for it then putting down the 'alpha' before anyone has a chance to do anything is always going to get the best results, but it's one thing saying it and another entirely doing it. it's also very risky unless you know how to handle yourself.

you need to be able to put him down very quickly before he can retaliate, which is a lot harder than it sounds especially with knackers as they'll have had plenty of practice in the not so noble arts and won't go down easily.

cormie

Howabout this?

I wonder is it legal here?

Eoghan-psych

Bambi wrote:

You didnt?

"Unlike the knife, it'll put the scum out first touch. Blind it and that is the end of its fight. Especially using an aerosol - you'll wind it too."

both are absolute statments and both are wrong IMO

Should have added "if you manage to get the knacker properly". Obviously the chances of that are miniscule.

Our man in Havana

cormie wrote:

Howabout this?

I wonder is it legal here?

It would be funny telling the cops he looks like the incredible hulk!

Our man in Havana

what about one of these? http://www.uws.com/ASPBATONS/HomePage.html

fintan

Just to chime in my two cents, dont carry a knife, take up a martial art instead.

Great way to get fit and build confidence

Cheers

Fintan

Matt Simis

cormie wrote:

Howabout this?

I wonder is it legal here?

It takes 7 seconds per target to take full effect.

If you are attacked by a gang of just 3:
3 Seconds to reach for can (being generous here)
7 Seconds to paint the face of first attacker
1 Second to reaim
etc etc


You expect them to stand around (or even still) for half a minute? You will get jumped from behind, kicked when down for a few min, then they will run off. Even self-defense classes are of dubious value IMO when attacked by a gang without warning.

The only defense against street crime is avoid it. Take taxies/drive a car, dont hang around alone late at night, avoid city centre if possible..


Matt