Collusion on Internet

padser

Ah........the penny drops. Im that little bit more educated now. Thanks.

Imposter

While this discussion is all well and good (not to mention interesting and useful), has anyone else taken the time to have a look at the hands posted? Do they think my analysis is correct do they think my argument is complete bullsh1t?

Pitboss, have you had a look at the hands? If so what do you think, seeing as your role has you dealing with this sort of thing every day (even if you haven't had to yet)?

PPP-Pit Boss

Imposter wrote:

While this discussion is all well and good (not to mention interesting and useful), has anyone else taken the time to have a look at the hands posted? Do they think my analysis is correct do they think my argument is complete bullsh1t?

Pitboss, have you had a look at the hands? If so what do you think, seeing as your role has you dealing with this sort of thing every day (even if you haven't had to yet)?

I can't comment really Imposter sorry. Without the ability to view all cards ie replay the hands it would be unfair of me to make a stand on it. I will say that the fact that you are a seasoned player and spotted it straight off suggest something may be amiss. Not knowing for instance if that player raising with 10 7 os was bluffing / sweetning the pot / completely incompetent, pissed as a coot. I do review this stuff every day. What I meant was I have never received a formal complaint from a customer with regard to this.
Your grievence is not bull. I think it is valid.

careca

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Hiya imp.. can I call you Imp. I feel more comfortable using cute names. It takes the edge off you know? ;0)
We take every situation on a case by case basis. To be honest we have never had a formal complaint of collusion (ie anything similar to your story). Any cases I have come accross have been few and far between and nipped in the bud before any damage was done as a result. .

I did contact a PPP host one night (I posted up here about it the following day) where I was convinced two players were using chat to let each know what cards they held. It wasn't English they used and it was just too dodgy by far. They never got involved in pots with each other and were only typing in chat when it transpired that one of them had a big hand. Now I'm not sure if you can see chat history, so maybe it was impossible to tell if there was collusion. Althought the host informed me that they would check it out straight away , I never heard anything back. Now I did leave the site straight away as I was steaming but I was hoping to get an email or a call to set the record straight. BTW , I still have their usernames !!!!!!!!

Imposter

UB got back to me:

email wrote:

We have send you and attach please take a look at it.

Unfortunately we cannot send you the hands of the rest of the players. Please remember that we have much more information than you or anybody else and without that information you can only guess, rest assured that those accounts would be closed by now if we had the slightest doubt.

So I did as they said.

attachment wrote:

People play in so many different ways that first you have to establish how they play or what their style is, what we were trying to show you was the fact that they play their hands the same way when they played together or when they played with other players, and how other players did the same too, for example:
<some hand history stuff nicely highlighted in red and green>
Dmeyer started this hand raising $6 in the pre-flop and as you can see he had 8c 2d( the worst thing is that he won, just imagine what the other player had)
<some more hand history stuff nicely highlighted in red and green>
Checks with the fourth card and then raises in the river. Is very obvious why.
<some more hand history stuff this time only highlighted in red>
You raise to $6, autiger2000 re-raises to $9, and when dmeyer bets $3 he folds

I do believe they think i'm stupid! (They may be right but that's a different thread) So they're trying to teach me poker.

Now i'm really pissed. So I spend a nice chunk of time looking at the rest of the hands until they both left. So I wrote them a mail. Be warned it's a bit long but I think it's a good read. So see the next post.

Imposter

Fabian,

I am getting very tired of this. You'll be glad to know that this is my last email to you on the matter, unless you accept that collusion occured.

Firstly thank you for your explainations, but i know people play hands in different ways. I already had pegged dmeyer as someone who was liable to raise with anything, but thanks for the tip anyway. The last example however does not fit in with my theory and i'll agree this one example makes a small point in your favour.

Now Fabian, the reason I am so tired at the moment is I have been reviewing all the histories, right up until these 2 left the table. As you may or may not know retreiving hand histories after the fact, gives you hand histories that doesn't include comments. So thankfully I have a memory, but no doubt you have all the information on your system. Now to my conclusions after this arduous task of reviewing all the hands.

As I have been saying, I have been focusing my investigations on the way this pair play when both of them are in a pot. I've been moaning to you about how they were using this raise-reraise tactic all the time be it to build pots or to force others out. Now you have told me you can see both cards, so you obviously can see if they are taking the preverbial pee.

Now here's some facts that I have noticed from hands 2031-2137:
2136: mic maple and autiger are the only 2 left, they play a hand against each other and autiger wins. He has top pair throughout (a jack) and only bets the river which mic maple sportingly calls, again pretty passive I would reckon. But I digress my main point is about to come. Here is the hand numbers when this raise reraise tactic was used by the pair (Please note in some hands it was used more than once):
2037
2040
2044
2046
2057
2059
2062
2064
2070
2071
2072
2074
2080
2094
2095
2098
2099
2106
Wow was it that often! 18 times in 106 hands. Just WOW!!!

Now you might remember that I mentioned that both of them played until hand 2136. That's right a whole 30 hands where they never once raise reriased each other. Looking at the list above that looks like a lot doesn't it?

Right assuming you agree with me (go on, you know you want to), you must be saying to yourself "What could have happened at hand 2106 for them to change this tactic?". Would you believe I know the answer to this, but i'll need a little help from you. But before I get too carried away you should go have a look at this hand, it's a cracker!

Right now that you've seen the ultra advanced raise resiase tactic, i'll tell you that this is is the hand that caused dragon12 to accuse them of being muppets of the highest order and/or of colluding with each other. Now I know I was paraphrasing there, but you have all the history so you can see what was actually said. I would have chimed in shortly afterwards informing dragon12 that I had already reported them for collusion.

Now back to some numbers. Remember 18 times in 106 hands but look it's also 18 times in 75 hands one raised and the other reraised. Now lets look at the last 31. Yep that's right 0 out of 31, amazing, unbelieveable even! And just after they were accused of cheating.

Fabian, I do hope you are still reading! As you may have noticed I have withdrawn my entire monies from my account. I trust that there will be no problems with the last 170 odd $ getting into my neteller account!

I think what I have presented to you here and over my previous emails is proof enough that collusion was occuring. Yes I know you know more than me and you have "more information than you or anybody else", including but not limited to the hands of all players, so could you please use it?

Now i'll give you a reasonable timeframe to respond to this with either your tail between your legs, or a DETAILED (that word is important) explanation of why collusion was not occuring. Treat it like school, I want the full analysis, hand by hand including the hole cards I cannot see. Then when your hand by hand analysis is complete take it all together and analyse that. If you opt for the tail between your legs option I'd like to know how you intend to compensate the victims of this collusion. That's me and also the others that were at the table.

Now i don't mean this as a threat, so please don't take it like one, but if you come back here spouting the same rubbish as you have over the last few emails I will be publishing all hand histories and correspondence we have had on some of the more popular poker forums on the internet. Now as I said this is not a threat, because that would be wrong, but I feel it would be only fair to warn others that UB either have no intention of dealing with collusion or their stafff and 'experts' are too stupid to be able to recognise it when it happens.

Lastly, I do hope you enjoyed this diatribe as I thoroughly enjoyed writing it.

Me.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

shakespeare couldn't haven't written better! - vg!

OilBeefHooked2

Absolutely Brillant!

Very well said.

I cant wait to hear their reply.

okidoki987

Fabian, I do hope you are still reading! As you may have noticed I have withdrawn my entire monies from my account.

Now you're talking.

Love to see the response you get back (if any).

PPP-Pit Boss

careca wrote:

I did contact a PPP host one night (I posted up here about it the following day) where I was convinced two players were using chat to let each know what cards they held. It wasn't English they used and it was just too dodgy by far. They never got involved in pots with each other and were only typing in chat when it transpired that one of them had a big hand. Now I'm not sure if you can see chat history, so maybe it was impossible to tell if there was collusion. Althought the host informed me that they would check it out straight away , I never heard anything back. Now I did leave the site straight away as I was steaming but I was hoping to get an email or a call to set the record straight. BTW , I still have their usernames !!!!!!!!

We did have an incident with that complaint a while back I was informed. Entered the room and warned both of them to speak only english on the site. Not sure if it was your case though.

careca

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

We did have an incident with that complaint a while back I was informed. Entered the room and warned both of them to speak only english on the site. Not sure if it was your case though.

Thats fair enough.

As I said I have both their names anyway so if I saw the two of them again at the same table I wouldn't play there.

PPP-Pit Boss

Jesus! ;0) Bet Fabian wishes he just worked in the UB facilities department..

PPP-Pit Boss

careca wrote:

Thats fair enough.

As I said I have both their names anyway so if I saw the two of them again at the same table I wouldn't play there.

Send me their names via private message and I will check em out

Imposter

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Jesus! ;0) Bet Fabian wishes he just worked in the UB facilities department..

Do you blame me in fairness? The hands are there for all to see and he persists in saying there was nothing unusual happening, yet he won't respond directly to my allegations/questions!

PPP-Pit Boss

Imposter wrote:

Do you blame me in fairness? The hands are there for all to see and he persists in saying there was nothing unusual happening, yet he won't respond directly to my allegations/questions!

Not at all! Applause all round. You should not have to do his job for him!

Imposter

over 3 days, no reply.
Posted on 2+2.
All hand histories also attached.