Anakin / Vadar's father ? SPOILERS !!!

Saviour_Angel

DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVN'T SEEN THIS FILM !!!


Ok, I know I'll probily be hung drawn and quatered for making a thread like this as I know that this series has a lot of unexplained things and I'm far from an expert..
Plz try and keep your replies civilised as I don't want turning into a flame thread...
I'd also like to appoligse for my many spelling mistakes

Now I'm not sure if anyone noticed this in the new Star Wars movie, but I think Lucas has given a possible father figure for Anakin...
During the seen were Chancellor Palpatine and Anakin are talking while viewing a hugh opera of water bubbles.... (sry if you don't know what I mean)...

Chancellor Palpatine talks to Anakin about a Dark Lord named Plaugus The Wise and the power that he had. He tells Anakin about this Lord and his great power with the Force.. This lord was so powerful that he could manipulate midiclorians to create life !!!
The Chancellor also says that this is the only person that has ever had this power, ( I hope everyone is following me ).

Now lets go back and view The Phantom Menace, were QUI-GON GIN, discovers Anankin as a boy and asks his mother about Anakins father...
She replies that there was no father. She also didn't seem to open about Anakins birth and so on.

I believe that this Lord of the sith Darth Plaugus The Wise could possibly be Anakins father. I think it makes sence as it would explain how powerful Anakin is, as he was made with the force.

As a side note I thinks it's also fair to assume that The Chancellor was the apprentise of Darth Plaugus, as he smerks when he talks about the apprentise killing Darth Plaugus in his sleep, kinda insinuating that he a part to play in it..

Added note:
If the two above statements are true then this would also indicate why The Chancellor in The Phantom Menace was so interested in young Anakin, saying that he'd have to keep an eye on his growing furure.
This could shows that he was the apprentise to Darth Plaugus and knew that he had created life through the midiclorians, and so upon The Chancellors discovery of Anakin, he knew that this boy was the creation from the midiclorians and thus The Chancellor became very intered in the boy's future...

qz

Saviour_Angel wrote:

As a side note I thinks it's also fair to assume that The Chancellor was the apprentise of Darth Plaugus, as he smerks when he talks about the apprentise killing Darth Plaugus in his sleep, kinda insuating that he a part to play in it..

I agree with you on this one. And I think you make a fair point with your post.

By the way, to do a spoiler: ["spoiler"] text here [/"spoiler"]
Just remove the quotation marks.

RuggieBear

yep

TerrorFirmer

believe that this Lord of the sith Darth Plaugus The Wise could possibly be Anakins father. I think it makes sence as it would explain how powerful Anakin is, as he was made with the force.

I thought this myself, in fact I assumed it inevitablely had something to do with it, but I thought it would be elaborated on further. Unfortunately not.

OY

This is an interesting point. I guess we will never know for sure but i think it is a possibility.
Like you said, it would explain Anakins power.
I just do not know what the motive behind it would have been.

Matthewthebig

em?

make a ridiculously powerful sith

it also links in with the fact that Anakin has the highest amount of midiclorians(sp?) if he was

made from them

it would explain

inflight

A wee bit off topic but did anyone else think that the Chancellor was the spit of Ratzinger?? When he was fighting samuel l. and went all hollow eyed. Struck me as creepy..

BlitzKrieg

i dont think

that palpatine or any sith lord is anakin's father, but thats out of personal asthetic choice, it takes so much away from the betrayel if anakin was engineered by the sith. But i do believe palpatine abused the lack of father in anakin's life. I mean he didnt have a father, then qui jun is killed, the only person who acted like a father to him and then he meets palpatine who is like qui-jun in that he encourages anakin and helps him alot (padme, becoming jedi master etc). This is clearly summed up when anakin screams "I need him" So who is anakin's father? well i think the reason given originally, that he was concieved by the force is the real one, its a variation of the story of christ, because he is the chosen one. HE does destroy the sith in the end and through his son he restores the Jedi order which had become stagnated through its involvment in politics.

spudington16

Where in God's name are you getting this from? You're joing two completely unrelated dots just to tie up a loose end. There's no real evidence that the Sith Lord was Anakin's father. Although it is likely that Grievous was his apprentice.

Saviour_Angel

spudington16 wrote:

Where in God's name are you getting this from? You're joing two completely unrelated dots just to tie up a loose end. There's no real evidence that the Sith Lord was Anakin's father. Although it is likely that Grievous was his apprentice.

I'm not saying that he was Anakins father for sure.... I just stated what Palpatine had said...
That this Darth Plaugus was the only one who had such power to create life...
And since Anakins mother had stated that there was NO FATHER !!!...
It was possible that he was created by the midiclorians...
Biologiclly Darth Plaugus may not be the father but it is possible that he had a hand in Anakins creation...

So I don't think I'm out of place sugesting that it is possible that Darth Plaugus was actually Anakins father..

The Bollox

Saviour_Angel wrote:

(what he said, spoiler tags don't work for quotes)

you say that whats-his-face the Wise was Anakins father, right and then Palpatine took interest in Anakin because he saw the boy (name) The Wise made, and you also say Palpatine was his apprentice, now I agree with you for most of this but you should also remember Palpatine said "he taught his apprentice all he knew" so I say that Palpatine was the father

Third_Echelon

That sounds reasonable Marts...

interesting thread

Saviour_Angel

Yes Marks but also remember were Palpatine said that only one person had the power and now this person was dead...
He was talking about Darth Plaugus the wise...
Therefor Darth Plaugus could have made Anakin....
I don't think that Palpatine could have had this power as when Anakin turns to the dark side after Mace Windu dies, Palpatine says that together we will discover the power to prevent death, indicating that he dosn't know himself.

nesf

Eh, you all seem to assume that Lucas has the depth of storytelling ability to make analysis like the above valid.

It's obvious he isn't a good writer or storyteller. What makes you think that concepts like christian symbolism would even occur to him as an original thought?

You are overcomplicating a very simple and unsubtle work. Why waste your time? Read the Lord of the Rings and try to pull the imagery and symbolism out of that. It's far more rewarding.

BlitzKrieg

lets see i can either try and make interesting theories from a series of movies that used the basis of all the worlds religions as the starting point of its storyline. Or i can try and make interesting theories from a series of books that are written like the bible.


hmm tough choice. I think i'll go for option C...enjoy the book, enjoy the film...have some popcorn...WITH BUTTER!

nesf

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Or i can try and make interesting theories from a series of books that are written like the bible.

Actually, the bible is a much easier read in my opinion...

Then again, I've a weakness for speculative fiction.

JCDenton

When Palpatine tells Anakin that only 1 person had achieved immortality - who was he talking about? I mean, surely it wasn't Plagus since Palpatine killed him...

?

An on an even bigger plot hole question thingy -

When Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he'll have to spend his life in the desert learning how to come back as a ghost - How the hell did Anakin figure it out?!

Saviour_Angel

JCDenton wrote:

When Palpatine tells Anakin that only 1 person had achieved immortality - who was he talking about? I mean, surely it wasn't Plagus since Palpatine killed him...
[/spoiler]

It wasn't immortality it was the ability to prolong life and also able to create life...
It was Yoka who talked about immoratality...

As to the Q about who tought Anakin about "ghost form", he is after all far more intune with the force, possiblily made tru the force... This would explain how he may not have had to learn "ghost form", he was just able to do it...

ObeyGiant

I read a pretty good FAQ entry on Qui-gonline regarding the 'immortality'. It takes some evidence from a few official sources and puts forward a pretty interesting case.

the jew

who cares the film sucked and here's a suprise for some of you, it didn't happen a long time ago in a galaxy far far away

ObeyGiant

Gegerty

Saviour_Angel wrote:

I'm not saying that he was Anakins father for sure.... I just stated what Palpatine had said...
That this Darth Plaugus was the only one who had such power to create life...
And since Anakins mother had stated that there was NO FATHER !!!...
It was possible that he was created by the midiclorians...
Biologiclly Darth Plaugus may not be the father but it is possible that he had a hand in Anakins creation...

So I don't think I'm out of place sugesting that it is possible that Darth Plaugus was actually Anakins father..

I don't think there's any mystery left in the movie when you piece the 2 trilogys together. Anakin was born to bring balance to the force, which he does in the end by finding his good side and killing the emperor in return of the jedi. Remeber the big party at the end where they all live happily ever after? That shows that he was created by good not evil. i.e the mediclorians, not by plaugus.

I think Sidious made up the story of plaugus having this extra power to convince Anakin to join the dark side. The guy's an evil bas*tard and would use any trick to get anakin and that was the perfect way.

The Bollox

Gegerty wrote:

I don't think there's any mystery left in the movie when you piece the 2 trilogys together. Anakin was born to bring balance to the force, which he does in the end by finding his good side and killing the emperor in return of the jedi. Remeber the big party at the end where they all live happily ever after? That shows that he was created by good not evil. i.e the mediclorians, not by plaugus.

I don't think so, The Emperor had Anakin, and he wasn't going back, what the Emperor did not count on was Anakin having kids:

Obi Wan wrote:

The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him

Luke played a big part in making the prophecy true, he brought back Anakin from the dark side, so Anakin could "Bring balance to the force"

Saviour_Angel

Gegerty wrote:

Remeber the big party at the end where they all live happily ever after? That shows that he was created by good not evil. i.e the mediclorians, not by plaugus.

This dosn't show that he was created by good or evil, it's just a party and dosn't have any barering on Anakins creation..

Gegerty wrote:

I think Sidious made up the story of plaugus having this extra power to convince Anakin to join the dark side.

Yes it is possible that it was all made up, but I don't think so as Sidious smirks when telling this story, as to imply that he had a part to play in it.

Remember when Yoda and Obi and Mace were flying in a ship talking about the prophicy and that Anakin was the choosen one, Yoda points out that they may have mis-read the prophicy and that Anakin mightent be the one who brings balance, but rather destroys the balance, which he does...
Altho he redeems himself in Return of the Jedi

Gegerty

Marts wrote:

I don't think so, The Emperor had Anakin, and he wasn't going back, what the Emperor did not count on was Anakin having kids: Luke played a big part in making the prophecy true, he brought back Anakin from the dark side, so Anakin could "Bring balance to the force"

You're basically agreeing with me there. OK so it was Luke who pulled him back from the dark side but it was still Vader who killed the emperor, Luke wasn't up to the task. If Anakin was created by the Sith lord then that makes Luke and Leia evil too which doesn't make sense. Sorry to be a party pooper but you're all reading too much into this. Lucas has said himself this is the complete story told in its original form. There is nothing more to it.

Aaron M

I'm just wondering, does anyone here know if Lucas has ever specifically said that Anakin was the one who brings balance to the force, or whether it was merely assumed by people/fans and the characters in the prequel films ? There are a few ways you could potentially interpret the events throughout the films, and having never personally witnessed or read any definitive comments from Lucas I'm just curious has anyone else ? I guess that would put an end to any speculation.

Gegerty

Aaron M wrote:

I'm just wondering, does anyone here know if Lucas has ever specifically said that Anakin was the one who brings balance to the force, or whether it was merely assumed by people/fans and the characters in the prequel films ? There are a few ways you could potentially interpret the events throughout the films, and having never personally witnessed or read any definitive comments from Lucas I'm just curious has anyone else ? I guess that would put an end to any speculation.

No but he has said that the story was about the anakin/vadar tragedy. It's not much of a tragedy if he was created by the sith to be an evil Sith lord and then turns out to be an evil sith lord.

Saviour_Angel

Gegerty wrote:

If Anakin was created by the Sith lord then that makes Luke and Leia evil too which doesn't make sense.

If Anakin was born from the Sith it dosn't make him evil for that fact....
It was the decisions and action the transpired, that drove him to the dark side...
Regaurdless of who you are and were you come from, the decsions you make in life all depend on how you grew up and the decisions you make to each different choise,
no one is born evil or good, we make the choise ourselves as our lives go on...

RicardoSmith

I think plot holes are inevitable. Lucas is basically taken the fairly run of the mill plot/storyline from StarWars and tried to add depth and complexity that simply wasn't there. He may say that he always planned it to be something larger but it just doesn't fit with the original film. Which is pretty much self contained in terms of story. I like the two prequels better now than I did when I first saw them. Haven't seen the new one yet but looking forward to it.

BlitzKrieg

...Anakin is referred to as the Chosen One, "the one who will bring balance to the Force." Among Qui-Gon’s dying words were, of Anakin, "he will being balance..." George Lucas has stated that by his act of destroying Emperor Palpatine in ROTJ, Anakin achieves this goal.

from:http://www.qui-gonline.org/faq.htm#balanceoftheforce

therefore it would be pretty stupid of the sith to create a being of such power if they ahd no assurance that he wont turn against them, what we have seen of palpatine and other Sith in Star Wars, is that they plan for every precaution. If Anakin was created by the force on a neutral point (either dark or light) then it fits with the entire saga, temptation of anakin followed by a similar attempt to tempt luke. Putting Anakin in the dark straight away destroys any form of temptation and makes the events from episode 1-3 pointless. And believeing that the sith would create such a force without assurance they will comtrol it is stupid because everything else in the saga points to them being paranoid clever little basterds.

Gegerty

Saviour_Angel wrote:

This dosn't show that he was created by good or evil, it's just a party and dosn't have any barering on Anakins creation..

:-) I should have started a new paragraph. I didn't mean the party I meant the sentence before that, about Vader killing the Emperor and dying as a good guy. The party showed that the war was over and there was peace.

by the by, Vader does know the secret to immortality cause his ghost or whatever you want to call it is at the party at the end with his arm around obi wan. He didn't learn that in his Jedi training cause Obi Wan didn't hadn't even been trained in it at that point, so he must have learnt it from the dark side.

flogen

one plot-hole type thing I noticed is

in Clones we see blueprints for the Death Star, in Revenge we see a pretty developed shell of it, only a year or so later (I'm guessing). So why does it take something like 18 or so years (going by Luke's age in A New Hope) to complete it, as far as I recall that shows the first usage of it, doesn't it? I think this is one time where Lucas wanted to reference the originals and try and make obvious links... like the pointless Wookie scenes

skywalker

flogen wrote:

one plot-hole type thing I noticed is

in Clones we see blueprints for the Death Star, in Revenge we see a pretty developed shell of it, only a year or so later (I'm guessing). So why does it take something like 18 or so years (going by Luke's age in A New Hope) to complete it, as far as I recall that shows the first usage of it, doesn't it? I think this is one time where Lucas wanted to reference the originals and try and make obvious links... like the pointless Wookie scenes

several good reasons for this when you think about it.

1. What you see at the end of ROTS is a prototype, and a far from completed prototype. (Could have taken 20 years to work out all the bugs with engineering a livable moon with hyperspace)

2.The first death star was being created in secrecy, ie small workforce, while the empire was only in its infancy, ie possibly not the best workforce.

3. Nothing on its scale had ever been attempted before.

RicardoSmith

And scope creep. Originally those plans were actual size. But a mistake on the blueprint meant it was built the size of a moon.

User45701

Gegerty wrote:

I don't think there's any mystery left in the movie when you piece the 2 trilogys together. Anakin was born to bring balance to the force, which he does in the end by finding his good side and killing the emperor in return of the jedi. Remeber the big party at the end where they all live happily ever after? That shows that he was created by good not evil. i.e the mediclorians, not by plaugus.

I think Sidious made up the story of plaugus having this extra power to convince Anakin to join the dark side. The guy's an evil bas*tard and would use any trick to get anakin and that was the perfect way.

No im sorry but u are wrong u said "created by good not evil?"
The dark side isent evil just most ppl who use it are evil. lets look at dictators on earth almost all of them have been bad but there have been 1 or 2 benine (is that now u spell it) good dictators so it stands to reason that one who can use the dark side wont definatley be evil mabe darth plagus the wise wasent all that bad

Ur therey that the emperor made it up is interesting tho
One question for all u big sw fans out there im not that big a sw fan so anser this wasent darth plagus supposed to be called Darth Bane orginally because about 10 or more years ago i reaqd plot lines for episode 1-3 7-9 and episode 1 and 2 where just like the ones made but episode 3 was duifferent in parts

The Bollox

if we are still on lhe lookout for plot holes, how about this, 3PO had his memory erased AFTER the clone wars ended, but he still remembers them when Luke asks.

BlitzKrieg

what does luke ask?

I think he talks more of the rebellion and his previous owner then the clone wars.

Big Nelly

Marts wrote:

if we are still on lhe lookout for plot holes, how about this, 3PO had his memory erased AFTER the clone wars ended, but he still remembers them when Luke asks.

Asks about Clone wars and 3PO tells him there is not much to tell! i.e. he doesnt remember anything about them! if he hadnt his memory cleared he would be able to tell about all the battles and so on!!

Gileadi

after watching the "Empire Of Dreams" documentry on the bonus disk to the 4-6 trilogy boxset it goes into quite abit of detail about how lucas strongly based the storyline along mythological and religious lines so theres no doubt that he intended it that anakin was concieved via the force(ala mary-jesus etc etc) as qui gon said in phantom menace

also im not aware that being "strong" with the force is passed down,maybe somebody who read some of those books based on the universe will be able to clarify this

even still why would plagius pick anakins mother for that and just leave them alone when if he had taken the child when he was young and thought him he could have been easier to manipulate like the padawans of the jedi,and seeing as palpatine killed plagius why didnt he take the kid instead of maul/dooku

vibe666

some good ideas there, somethign to think about anyways.

has anyone heard anything about episodes 7, 8 & 9 yet?

Gegerty

User45701 wrote:

No im sorry but u are wrong u said "created by good not evil?"
The dark side isent evil just most ppl who use it are evil. lets look at dictators on earth almost all of them have been bad but there have been 1 or 2 benine (is that now u spell it) good dictators so it stands to reason that one who can use the dark side wont definatley be evil mabe darth plagus the wise wasent all that bad

Ur therey that the emperor made it up is interesting tho
One question for all u big sw fans out there im not that big a sw fan so anser this wasent darth plagus supposed to be called Darth Bane orginally because about 10 or more years ago i reaqd plot lines for episode 1-3 7-9 and episode 1 and 2 where just like the ones made but episode 3 was duifferent in parts

So tell me then why did the Sith bother creating him? To me it was really obvious, Sidious had been manipulating him and turning him against the Jedi. Now he needed a new apprentice and Anakin was very fragile at the time and just needed a little convincing and to tell him he could save padme's life by becoming strong in the dark side of the force was guaranteed to turn him. If pagius created him then why if not to become a powerful sith? And tell me why did he just leave him and not train him from childhood like the young jedi's? It doesn't make sense at all.

p.s there will be no episode 7, 8, 9, Lucas has said so. I wouldn't be surprised if there was episode 1,2 and 3 remastered though. there's so much cgi in the movies he could practically remake the entire thing!

skywalker

User45701 wrote:

One question for all u big sw fans out there im not that big a sw fan so anser this wasent darth plagus supposed to be called Darth Bane orginally because about 10 or more years ago i reaqd plot lines for episode 1-3 7-9 and episode 1 and 2 where just like the ones made but episode 3 was duifferent in parts

No. Darth Bane was a completely differant Sith, Around way before Darth Plagueis (this is the correct spelling)

Gileadi wrote:

also im not aware that being "strong" with the force is passed down,maybe somebody who read some of those books based on the universe will be able to clarify this

Do you mean hereditarily? Its not neccessarily the case, but being related to a Jedi (or anyone who is strong with the force) would give you a much higher chance of being strong yourself.

TerrorFirmer

there's so much cgi in the movies he could practically remake the entire thing!

You mean Stop Animation and Models being pulled along

I can see this happening, and it would be fantastic I think, if only to make the trilogy more viewable and able to fit more smoothly in together if watched in proper order I through VI.

Leave the live action scenes, remake the effects scenes! (Some of them, not all of them)

Saviour_Angel

Gegerty wrote:

If pagius created him then why if not to become a powerful sith? And tell me why did he just leave him and not train him from childhood like the young jedi's? It doesn't make sense at all.

yes this is a big plot hole in my theroy, but it can easily be filled when we just go back over the conversation between Anakin and the Chancellor...
The Chancellor says how Darth Plagus was killed in his sleep...
It is possible that Darth Plagus choose a women, maybe for no reason, and impregnated her.
But before the child was born Darth Plagus's apprentise turned and killed his master.
Since the apprentise (Sidious) didn't know of the child he didn't pursue the boy until he was confronted by him in TPM, were he says that he will keep an eye on the boys future.

The Bollox

it seem I was wrong, 3PO says he was in the rebellion which is where Episode III left off, it was Obi Wan who said he was in the clone wars, my mistake

RicardoSmith

I'm gonna have to watch them all now, after reading this thread !!!

The Bollox

RicardoSmith wrote:

I'm gonna have to watch them all now, after reading this thread !!!

I just finished IV, V and VI, I also watched Episode I last night after about 5 years, it looks better when you know the whole story and it could have been such a good movie, but it has been said time and time again, Jar Jar ****s up the film, you don't want that kinda slapstick, also Anakin drove me around the bend but appart from that it was a pretty watchable film

Gegerty

Marts wrote:

I just finished IV, V and VI, I also watched Episode I last night after about 5 years, it looks better when you know the whole story and it could have been such a good movie, but it has been said time and time again, Jar Jar ****s up the film, you don't want that kinda slapstick, also Anakin drove me around the bend but appart from that it was a pretty watchable film

The kids love Jar Jar, I'm guessing you're not 8 years old?

RicardoSmith

Gegerty wrote:

The kids love Jar Jar, I'm guessing you're not 8 years old?

I suspect they like the idea of slapping him around?

Of course theres this distrubing idea...
www.landoverbaptist.org/news0899/jar.html :eek:

Gegerty

RicardoSmith wrote:

I suspect they like the idea of slapping him around?

Of course theres this distrubing idea...
www.landoverbaptist.org/news0899/jar.html :eek:

LOL!

Big Nelly

I thought they would have killed him off at the end....no such luck.....maybe they will remake the original 3 and put him into it....just to ruin them.....