Why I love to hate VCPoker

NickyOD

So having been drawn back to this site after a long absense I decide to suss out the cash game action and oh what's this? 200BBs at the .25/.50 level nice! So I open up 3 X 6 handed tables and sit with the max $100 on each and on all 3 the average stack apart from me is around $40-$50. Talk about a fishpond.

After about an hour and a half I'm up $110 between the 3 tables which is pretty nice going. I'm up to $164 on one table and one particular player on my left is getting rather annoyed. He doesn't say anything but I can see it in his play. In shorthanded games I hardly ever limp into the pot preflop, I raise, and this guy is pissed that he can't limp in with 7-2 off because he's curious to see if it really is the worst hand. He wants to limp into EVERY pot and I just keep blowing him out of it before he gets the chance. Eventually a pattern develops and he tries to start playing back at me. 3 raises in a row he raises my $2 raise up to $6. I then call and bet out on the flop and he folds. Now I'm pretty exstatic about this because I know I'm tilting him and he's got $85 in front of him.

Then this happens.....



[May 19 17:11:55] : Hand Start.
[May 19 17:11:55] : Seat 1 : Mr Muscle has $8.88
[May 19 17:11:55] : Seat 2 : Paulyx2 has $22.73
[May 19 17:11:55] : Seat 3 : NickyOD has $164.92
[May 19 17:11:55] : Seat 4 : cockateel has $85.14
[May 19 17:11:55] : Seat 6 : LeChuck has $109.69
[May 19 17:11:55] : LeChuck is the dealer.
[May 19 17:11:56] : Mr Muscle posted small blind.
[May 19 17:11:56] : Paulyx2 posted big blind.
[May 19 17:11:56] : Game [130550] started with 5 players.
[May 19 17:11:56] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[May 19 17:11:56] : Seat 3 : NickyOD has As Ks
[May 19 17:11:59] : NickyOD called $0.50 and raised $2
[May 19 17:12:02] : cockateel called $2.50 and raised $82.64 and is All-in
[May 19 17:12:05] : LeChuck folded.
[May 19 17:12:05] : Mr Muscle folded.
[May 19 17:12:09] : Paulyx2 folded.
[May 19 17:12:12] : NickyOD called $82.64
[May 19 17:12:13] : Showdown!
[May 19 17:12:13] : Seat 3 : NickyOD has As Ks
[May 19 17:12:15] : Seat 3 : NickyOD has As Ks
[May 19 17:12:15] : Seat 4 : cockateel has 4h 3c
[May 19 17:12:54] : Mr Muscle : wtf
[May 19 17:12:54] : Board cards [Qh 5d 4c 7d 6d]
[May 19 17:12:54] : Seat 4 : cockateel has 4h 3c
[May 19 17:12:54] : cockateel has Straight 76543
[May 19 17:12:54] : Seat 3 : NickyOD has As Ks
[May 19 17:12:54] : NickyOD has High Card : Ace
[May 19 17:12:54] : cockateel wins $171.03 with Straight 76543
[May 19 17:13:01] : LeChuck : ?
[May 19 17:13:04] : Hand is over.

This guy had better have a lot of money. I'm looking for him every ****ing time I log on to VC from now on.

impr0v

If you play in what you acknowledge is a 'fishpond', these are the chances you take, as you well know.

NickyOD

impr0v wrote:

If you play in what you acknowledge is a 'fishpond', these are the chances you take, as you well know.

lol. so you don't find it funny that some guy pushed in for 170BBs in a cashgame with 3-4 off preflop?

Amaru

How long did it take you to call? And what did you think he had(if he had bullets, weren't you effectively screwed)?

NickyOD

Amaru wrote:

How long did it take you to call? And what did you think he had(if he had bullets, weren't you effectively screwed)?

It took me about two seconds flat to call. I put him on a mid pair. I thought it would be a coinlflip but I'd make this call 100 times of 100. Given the action you'll come up against garbage a lot more aften than aces or Kings when someone does this.

Amaru

Is it really worth betting 85 dollars on a coin flip though? :eek:

NickyOD

Amaru wrote:

Is it really worth betting 85 dollars on a coin flip though? :eek:

If someone wanted to flip a fair coin with you all day and you could get $101 back on your $100 bet when its heads ... why would you ever turn him down? Assuming $100 wasn't your total bankroll.

Amaru

I was just kidding with you. It just seems like a lot of money for one hand.

(on a side note, i'm not really sure i see the relevance on your comparison though. While you were 3/1 to win in that situation, if he had a pocket pair, you'd have been at best 5/6. Where does your situation fit it?)

NickyOD

Amaru wrote:

(on a side note, i'm not really sure i see the relevance on your comparison though. While you were 3/1 to win in that situation, if he had a pocket pair, you'd have been at best 5/6. Where does your situation fit it?)

It's not 5/6. If my read is correct and he does have a midpair I'ts 48/52. There was already money in the pot so I am getting the pot odds to call. Couple that with the fact that there was a high possibility of this moron having nothing but total crap it was an easy call. If I walk into a bigger hand or getted sucked out on I shrug and just top up again, but not taking advantage of an edge in a cash game is just silly.

Hectorjelly

I think this is an edge you could advocate passing!

You had to call $82.64 into a pot that would be:

$82.64 + $82.64 + $5 = $170.28.

So you hand needs to win at least 82.64/170.28, or 48% of the time.

If you read was correct then you have an equity of 47.54%. So in fact its a fold! If you read was correct then you only had a $80.95 equity in the pot, but you paid $82.64 for it. So your call cost you $1.69.

Of course if you put him on a semi random hand then its a call, but against a pocket pair this is a fold.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

123,285,888 games 0.188 secs 655,776,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.4547 % [ 00.52 00.00 ] { 99-77 }
Hand 2: 47.5453 % [ 00.47 00.00 ] { AKs }

Edit for some reason I missed the fact that the pot size was stated in the OP, the numbers are a bit off but its still a fold.

Culchie

Hector Loves VC .... Was swimming around the $10 STT shallow waters last night !

Hectorjelly

I had a great first two weeks to the month and made a huge cashout. Unfortunatly I had not heard of the cashout curse at that stage Cue me going on a horrible run of cards/play/luck/women and my VC bankroll was severly dented. I havent deposited on VC for nearly a year I think and I dont want to start now.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think this is an edge you could advocate passing!

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The last 2 times I've called big all ins from loose players with AK after creating action with them in cash games I've come up against K-9 and T-2o. The % chance of coming up against total trash far outweighs the marginal -EV.

Culchie

It will be an honour to watch the master at work !

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The last 2 times I've called big all ins from loose players with AK after creating action with them in cash games I've come up against K-9 and T-2o. The % chance of coming up against total trash far outweighs the marginal -EV.

If there is a substantial (more than 5-6%) "% chance of coming up against total trash" then its not marginally - EV. I was just pointing out that if you are up against a pocket pair then it would be - EV to call that bet.

Hectorjelly

Culchie wrote:

It will be an honour to watch the master at work !

Hopefully its too late, I won 4 in a row and can now move up to the lofty heights of the $15s!

Culchie

Pity ... I enjoyed the 2 games we met last night on

Hectorjelly

Culchie wrote:

Pity ... I enjoyed the 2 games we met last night on

Oh god, I didnt call anyone a retard did I? I think it could actually be a sickness, berating $10stt players! Does your VC name begin with S?

Culchie

No, no berating last night ....just the odd

Had a good game with yourself , VV, yid and another of your esteemed bunch, who I normally avoid (why should I tackle sharks, I've got bill to pay), but I felt like a challenge, good battle.

I told you, I was going to follow you round !!


Begins with C .

DeLaBass

You were dead right to call Nicky IMO, you had tht guy crucified and he got extremely lucky. If anyone has to worry about equity or +EV its him. AKs, how could you fold???

---

Playing my home game last night, on the big blind and short stacked with 77. Raise it up and get two callers. Hit my trips on a 4h-7h-8c flop and go all in ala texas dolly. Of course i get two callers, or should i fish. Turn is Kh which gives player A to my left, mid stacked, the nuts with the Ace high flush. He pushes all in and gets quickly called by the player B. Cards are turned over, both players have flushes. I need to pair the board to fill my house and i get it on the end with an 8, only its an 8h and gives player B his straight flush 4h-5h-6h-7h-8h! What a hand and what a pay off for player B!

Samba

DeLaBass wrote:

You were dead right to call Nicky IMO, you had tht guy crucified and he got extremely lucky. If anyone has to worry about equity or +EV its him. AKs, how could you fold???

---

Playing my home game last night, on the big blind and short stacked with 77. Raise it up and get two callers. Hit my trips on a 4h-7h-8c flop and go all in ala texas dolly. Of course i get two callers, or should i fish. Turn is Kh which gives player A to my left, mid stacked, the nuts with the Ace high flush. He pushes all in and gets quickly called by the player B. Cards are turned over, both players have flushes. I need to pair the board to fill my house and i get it on the end with an 8, only its an 8h and gives player B his straight flush 4h-5h-6h-7h-8h! What a hand and what a pay off for player B!

It's a cash game, the blinds are going nowhere, there is no urgency to feel you have to risk your entire stack with AK

I see AK run into AA and KK quite often, he pushed his entire stack in, were you not just a little worried, regardless of his temperment?

The only situations where i call all ins preflop with AK is with small stacks as they are likely to gamble on A10/J/Q


While the decision was correct as it turns out you were ahead, there is no god given right to win every pot with AK, 43 can easily take out AK.

I will often call big raises with complete rags know that my opponent is holding AK, it is too funny how many players push with A high, even funnier when you catch a nice flop.

NickyOD

Samba wrote:

It's a cash game, the blinds are going nowhere, there is no urgency to feel you have to risk your entire stack with AK

I see AK run into AA and KK quite often, he pushed his entire stack in, were you not just a little worried, regardless of his temperment?

I wasn't really worried about AA/KK. He came across as the kind of player who raised when he was weak but thought it was clever to slowplay monsters to trap you. I think his intent here was to show the bluff and try to get me to loosen up and call when he had the goods. It should have backfired on him but, he got lucky.

I certainly wouldn't always call big reraises with AK and yes of course big all in occasionally means Aces but given the action more often than not its just garbage. It depends on the oponent and his actions up to that point. You can't fold because of what you fear a player might have. You put a range of hands on him and if you've got a poistive epectation then you go for it. This guy was on tilt and it looked like he just wanted to gamble. Had he been playing solidly up to that point I'd have burned the mousepad folding there.

QuentinHapsburg

Just finished a tournament on VC Poker, I've never seen a tournament have so many people come from behind to win in all in situations. Almost every time. Not a good site to go all in if you think you're winning. Back to pokerstars for me.

henbane

QuentinHapsburg wrote:

Just finished a tournament on VC Poker, I've never seen a tournament have so many people come from behind to win in all in situations. Almost every time. Not a good site to go all in if you think you're winning. Back to pokerstars for me.

Jeez, it must be rigged or something

Mark J

QuentinHapsburg wrote:

Just finished a tournament on VC Poker, I've never seen a tournament have so many people come from behind to win in all in situations. Almost every time. Not a good site to go all in if you think you're winning. Back to pokerstars for me.

promised myself never to play on vc EVER AGAIN!

so a friend suggested paddy power. downloaded the program and lo and behold if its not the exact same program as vc!

i knew i shouldnt have went on but shur "whats 20 euro!?"

went on anyway built my 20 up to 160 so then got this wideboy.
constant battle with him raising, re-raisng.
he got pissed and was definitely on tilt!

blinds 1/2 evryone gets in cheap, i`ve 2/6.

8 players.

flop comes 2s/9d/6c

16 in the pot raised by 5, reraised, raised again, fold all the way around, yer man raises 40 i go all in.
so me and him - head2head.

me : 2/6
him J/9 clubs

turn - 9
river - 9.

i am never playing online evr again!

Hectorjelly

Playing a live game with friends, have 22 on the button. I raise and get reraised, I call as does one other. Flop is K T 2, we get all in on the flop, Im against K 4 and K Q. Turn is a T, river is a T.

Later on with the exact same people I raise on the button with 45s, big stack reraises me and I call as does 1 other. Flop is 559 (two hearts). We all put every penny we have in front of us into the pot. Im against A5 and KK (kk is for the much bigger side pot). Turn is 9 river is a 9. KK had to be informed that we didnt all split it with a full house.

They were the only two pots that were over €200 the whole night. The chances of me losing both of them were 1 in 200. I dealt them both of them and they both had the same 3 players out of 7 in the pots. I guestimate the chances of this happening at 1 in 300 gabillion.

i am never ever never ever playing offline nevr evr rvevevrevre again!

Lafortezza

Mark J wrote:

8 players.

flop comes 2s/9d/6c

16 in the pot raised by 5, reraised, raised again, fold all the way around, yer man raises 40 i go all in.
so me and him - head2head.

me : 2/6
him J/9 clubs

How you thought you were ahead on this flop with all that action is mystifying. And it's hardly a bad beat since any J, any 9, running clubs or a running pair wins it for him.

NickyOD

Mark J wrote:

i am never playing online evr again!

Wanna bet?

Drakar

I found vc cash games very hard to play. People kept going all in (which is good), but it made it very hard to know if you were ahead or not. So if you had an overpair does that mean you should call someone's all in to a rag flop? They could have hit a set or two pairs, or they could have any old cwap. I don't play cash games much so I just found it very hard to understand the rules when there were so many large raises.

Iago

Hand id : 3345977-21
Board cards : 6s Jc 7s As 7d

Main pot : 6,920
golly ....... Jd Ac
ezranati ....... 7c 6c

ezranati wins 6,920 with Full House : 7s full of 6s

nuff said

mewso

Iago wrote:

Hand id : 3345977-21
Board cards : 6s Jc 7s As 7d

Main pot : 6,920
golly ....... Jd Ac
ezranati ....... 7c 6c

ezranati wins 6,920 with Full House : 7s full of 6s

nuff said

nuff said indeed. What the heck were you doing in that pot with rags like AJo against suited connectors no less.

NickyOD

Iago wrote:

Hand id : 3345977-21
Board cards : 6s Jc 7s As 7d

Main pot : 6,920
golly ....... Jd Ac
ezranati ....... 7c 6c

ezranati wins 6,920 with Full House : 7s full of 6s

nuff said

Pfffft! Wimp!

Seat 1 - THEDIAMOND $113 in chips
Seat 2 - KZRSOZE $201.50 in chips
Seat 3 - MR0BVIOUS $88 in chips
Seat 5 - INKADDICT00 $86.26 in chips
Seat 6 - DVEDDER $149.50 in chips
Seat 7 - METRICSYSTEM $48 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 1] ***
KZRSOZE - Post small blind $1
MR0BVIOUS - Post big blind $3
THEDIAMOND - Pocket [10h,10d]
INKADDICT00 - Raises $3 to $6
DVEDDER - Folds
METRICSYSTEM - Folds
THEDIAMOND - Raises $6 to $9
KZRSOZE - Raises $8 to $12
MR0BVIOUS - Folds
INKADDICT00 - Folds
THEDIAMOND - Calls $3
*** FLOP [2h,10c,9d] ***
KZRSOZE - Bets $3
THEDIAMOND - Raises $3 to $6
KZRSOZE - Raises $3 to $9
THEDIAMOND - Raises $3 to $12
KZRSOZE - Calls $3
*** TURN [2h,10c,9d,6c] ***
KZRSOZE - Bets $6
THEDIAMOND - Raises $6 to $12
KZRSOZE - Raises $6 to $18
THEDIAMOND - Raises $6 to $24
KZRSOZE - Calls $6
*** RIVER [2h,10c,9d,6c,9s] ***
KZRSOZE - Bets $6
THEDIAMOND - Raises $6 to $12
KZRSOZE - Raises $6 to $18
THEDIAMOND - Raises $6 to $24
KZRSOZE - Calls $6
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THEDIAMOND - Show cards [10h,10d]
KZRSOZE - Show cards [9c,9h]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($153) Rake ($3)
Board [2h,10c,9d,6c,9s]
THEDIAMOND - HI:Full house, tens full of nines [10h,10d - P:10h,P:10d,B:10c,B:9s,B:9d]
KZRSOZE - Total ($150) HI$150)Four of a kind, nines [9c,9h - B:9s,P:9h,B:9d,P:9c,B:10c]

ullu

Here is the only solid evidence you need to prove that VC poker is rigged.


Hand id : 2361312-125081
Board cards : 7h 9d Ks Jh 5s

Main pot : $40
king tubby ....... Qc Ac
Cash$$$ ....... Ah As

Cash$$$ wins $40 with Pair: Aces


They program it so that players will receive good to excellent hands in the same hand so they can gather the maximum possible rake. They hadn't banked on these fellows being all-in preflop, the troublemaking rascals!

On another note, some madmen have claimed that the world is round. Talk about crazy! I'm off to read 'The Hitler Diaries' in Charles K. Johnson's gaff.