Wife Beating

TheBurningMan · 18-05-2005 11:36am #1

A friend of my girlfriend is being regularily beaten up by her husband. I hear regularily stories of the abuse second hand and have heard similar from other people that know them. The wife of this guy refuses to do anything about it and just accepts it as normal life. I know this is causing my girlfriend a huge amount of stress as she's powerless to do anything about it. Is there anything that can be done in a case like this? I would be pretty sure that if the guards became involved that she would just deny everything.

~Rebel~ · 18-05-2005 11:41am

Someone needs to give the husband a sound thrashing and see how he likes it. Not sure if that would help matters though, or even make it worse.. absolutely abhorant though, pretty much nothing worse imo!

kinkstr · 18-05-2005 11:43am

If you think she will deny it if the gaurds get involved, you're just gonna have to convince her to either leave him or in some way give her the confidence to report it. Calling the gaurds could really piss the guy off and he could just be a bigger pr1ck than he already is. You need to get her onside because at the ned of the day if she wont make a move in the right direction it will certainkt not get better

kinkstr

Glipmac · 18-05-2005 11:43am

~Rebel~ wrote:

Someone needs to give the husband a sound thrashing and see how he likes it. Not sure if that would help matters though, or even make it worse.. absolutely abhorant though, pretty much nothing worse imo!

i agree there that man obviosly has no morals get someone to go give him a beating

Kinetic^ · 18-05-2005 11:45am

He sounds like a right arsehole,just call the gardai and see what happens,at least they'll be made aware of it.Explain to them what the story is though.

koneko · 18-05-2005 11:46am

If she doesn't want to leave him there's little you can do. Have a proper sit down with her (maybe your gf should, if she hasn't already), give her leaflets/information about women's causes in your city/town or in Ireland, show her the facts. It's completely up to her whether she chooses to do something about this or continue getting beaten, don't think there is much you can do besides talk sense into her.

ferdi · 18-05-2005 11:47am

getting someone to give him a kicking will probably make the situation no better for the girl, however he deserves it 100%, ****ing scumbag.

http://www.womensaid.ie

Sleipnir · 18-05-2005 11:47am

I don't know if you saw the Primetime programme the other night on this very subject but it was quite informative.
It would appear (and I'm no expert) that the acceptance of it as normal is quite common. The woman does not report it becuase they either feel that they will not get any help anyway (which is often true) or they do it for a "quite life".

Unless the woman wants to escape from it I don't think there's anything your girlfriend can do other than try to convince her that she is in extreme danger.

Kinetic^ · 18-05-2005 11:47am

Maybe you should it to the husband and see what he says???

kinkstr · 18-05-2005 11:47am

Keyser Soze 69 wrote:

He sounds like a right arsehole,just call the gardai and see what happens,at least they'll be made aware of it.Explain to them what the story is though.

if she denies it the gaurds wont do anything, it will just make a horrible situation worse.

Beruthiel · 18-05-2005 11:50am

first off can everyone stop suggesting ‘a beating’ as a way to sort this out – it won’t and possibly all it would do is have him go home and take it out on his wife

TheBurningMan wrote:

The wife of this guy refuses to do anything about it and just accepts it as normal life.

I watched a very interesting doco on RTE only this week on this very subject. Listening to the women speak, one think is very clear to me - nothing whatsoever can be done to help them until they are willing to help themselves.
I personally do not understand a woman who stays in this situation, but they do and it probably has a lot to do with the fact that it starts off small, they think it will stop if they behave cos it was probably their fault in the first place for upsetting him, it gets worse, their self esteem goes down the toilet, they are afraid to tell anyone, so it goes on and on.
the women on the show, legged it when they saw what it was doing to their children.
all your girlfriend can do, is tell this woman that she has a way out, that there are people to help her - ie. womens refuge, barring order etc..
but at the end of the day, this woman has to want to leave.

daithimac · 18-05-2005 11:55am

TheBurningMan wrote:

A friend of my girlfriend is being regularily beaten up by her husband. I hear regularily stories of the abuse second hand and have heard similar from other people that know them. The wife of this guy refuses to do anything about it and just accepts it as normal life. I know this is causing my girlfriend a huge amount of stress as she's powerless to do anything about it. Is there anything that can be done in a case like this? I would be pretty sure that if the guards became involved that she would just deny everything.

do they have kids toghether, does she depend on him for money. If so it might be near impossable to get her to cut the strings with him. Talk about it openly with her and him if you feel up to it. Also if she has brothers and sisters make sure that they know about the situation, it gives her more support when she decides to leave him. there's nothing worse than an open seceret. if all else fails give yer man a kicking atleast it will make you feel better.

Beruthiel · 18-05-2005 12:01pm

daithimac wrote:

if all else fails give yer man a kicking atleast it will make you feel better.

the next person to suggest a 'kicking' gets banned
it is a totally unhelpful suggestion
B

masterK · 18-05-2005 12:07pm

I wonder if it's possible to have somebody from one of the womens charities contact her, it may make a difference to hear from somebody that was in the same situation.

Otherwise I think it's a good idea to get as many people that trusts as possible to talk to her. The main reason she won't leave is probably fear, if she know's she has enough support it may make all the difference.

TheBurningMan · 18-05-2005 1:26pm

They both have one child each by other partners, but she is currently expecting, however this has not stopped him from mistreating her. She has a good job and could easily walk away from him but she doesn't want the 'stigma' (whatever that might be) of being a single parent again. Numerous people have tried to talk to her about this, have eventually given up and lost contact with her over the years.

Beruthiel · 18-05-2005 1:32pm

TheBurningMan wrote:

They both have one child each by other partners, but she is currently expecting, however this has not stopped him from mistreating her. She has a good job and could easily walk away from him but she doesn't want the 'stigma' (whatever that might be) of being a single parent again. Numerous people have tried to talk to her about this, have eventually given up and lost contact with her over the years.

well that says it all then, she doesn't really want to help herself yet, I'm not experienced enough to know how to handle someone in that position.
would you not call the womens refuge centre in rathmines and ask them for advice?
btw
I was shocked to hear from a head doctor in one of the Dublin hospitals stating that 13% of pregnant woman who arrive to give birth were abused which resulted in complications

~Rebel~ · 18-05-2005 1:37pm

Maybe try and convince her that if shes afraid the guards will do nothing that yourself and some friends could provide a refuge for her from him and offer protection (not suggesting a beating, please dont ban) just so she doesn't have to worry about the consequences of leaving, and sort a legal solution in the meantime. If she's afraid of being on her own again you have to first convince her that being alone is definately better then being in an abusive relationship which will undoubtedly affect their children (quite possibly permanantly). Saw that documentary as well, very informative, maybe try and get a hold of it from rte and get her to watch so she see's its possible to get out and the effect it can have on the kids.

Beruthiel · 18-05-2005 1:45pm

~Rebel~ wrote:

better then being in an abusive relationship which will undoubtedly affect their children (quite possibly permanantly)..

indeed
as one doctor put it, a child can take almost anything, including divorce and get through it
but abuse in a family sticks with them and affects them their whole lives

Santa Claus · 18-05-2005 1:52pm

I certainly wouldn't advise you going in and having a chat with the woman and this lowlife as I imagine he may become violent with her afterwards for telling people etc....

I can only imagine how upsetting / frustrating this must be for your girlfriend, but as Ruthie said until the victim decides to do something, all your GF can do is support her friend and hopefully over time the woman in question will regain her confidence and leave this low life.

What kind of a scumbag beats a woman ???

daithimac · 18-05-2005 1:55pm

he seems like a total bum, but i would ask you to remember that if you should ever get into a row with him and he throws a punch it might be best to drop to the ground and go to the cops to file assault charges. if she won't get them involved there are other ways to get the message to them. he might even get himself a few nights in the cells out of it

pickarooney · 18-05-2005 2:04pm

Beruthiel wrote:

the next person to suggest a 'kicking' gets banned
it is a totally unhelpful suggestion
B

Given that the climate described is one where violence seems to be the only communication possible, is it really all that unhelpful? While it would be nice to think that a few friendly words in his ear and a read of a shiny leaflet would be enough to make him change his behaviour, that's obviously not the case. The woman seems determined to stay with him, and even if people don't understand how that's possible, try to accept the fact and work with it. If she sees taking a beating as the lesser of two evils when the other is living alone and fending for herself and a couple of kids, that's her prerogative.
I daresay a good kicking may at least even the score up a bit, reduce the control he has of the relationship, put him out of wife-beating action for a while and who knows, maybe make him think twice about twatting his wife around the next time.

I suppose it's a ban for me, but sure what the hey.

leggo · 18-05-2005 2:05pm

This might seem a bit out there, but could you suggest to her that she move out temporarily and maybe stay at your place, for anywhere from a week or two up to a couple of months. It'll get through the point that she has a way out and there's another option if she so wishes, scare him into thinking that he could lose his wife if he doesn't cop on and allow her to break her routine and make a rational decision on whether to go back to him or not from a safer, calmer standpoint. At the moment she probably feels like there's no way out so she may as well live with it, if you show her the light but do so in a way that doesn't appear like she's doing anything definite, it'll kill two birds with one stone in telling her she's got options and not scaring her by committing to anything in the process.

It's not really on the same level, but a few months ago my dad was trying to push me around, so immediately when it became a bit much I upped and left for a week down to my grannies (on a promise that I only intended to come back under my own circumstances). It scared the bollocks out of him so much so that there hasn't been a recurrence since, let me put my life in perspective and put me in a position where I didn't have to feel intimidated and optionless too.

Think about it.

Gordon · 18-05-2005 2:06pm

pickarooney wrote:

I suppose it's a ban for me, but sure what the hey.

OK

leggo · 18-05-2005 2:15pm

Just to note, I think it's a tad bit ridiculous that mods are dishing out bans for people not agreeing with their advice.

pickarooney's post might not have been what I'D have suggested, but he's just as entitled to give his two cents in the thread as a mod, whether the mod sees him as helpful or not. Personally if I disagree with somebody's advice I see it as unhelpful, but it doesn't mean it deserves to be discredited and told its absolutely useless. The guy involved and aware of the situation and people involved might actually see giving the abuser a kicking a really helpful piece of advice (moreso say than consulting a clinic). How is a mod to know that the husband's reaction is to lash out on the wife? They've never met the involved parties.

If this post is contravening any rules, feel free to delete it.

Nevyn · 18-05-2005 2:19pm

But it used to be the way of it Bru,
the community or family of the woman invovled would find out and
give the man a good trashing if the woman did not feel she coudl do so her self. (my grandmother took the cast iron frying pan to her husband herself).
Unless the woman is able or prepared to press chrages and follow then through
there is NOTHING the garda can do about it.

The physical abuse is one thing there is also the mental and emotional abuse.
The physical abuse may only happen a few times in the mnth but the emtional and mental abuse and making her feel worthless and usless and thick can be near constant.

The fact she is talking with your wife is a good start, I woudl let her know that you are there for her and get her as much information as possible even down to a 24 hour lock smith if needed.

Beruthiel · 18-05-2005 2:20pm

leggo wrote:

How is a mod to know that the husband's reaction is to lash out on the wife? ..

because 99.9% of the time that's exactly what this type of thug would do

if you have a problem with a Mod on this forum then PM them or take it to feedback
do not take this thread off topic

Gordon · 18-05-2005 2:21pm

We're not dishing out bans because the advice disagrees with our advice. We're banning people for advising violence on this public board.

daithimac · 18-05-2005 2:22pm

leggo wrote:

Just to note, I think it's a tad bit ridiculous that mods are dishing out bans for people not agreeing with their advice.

pickarooney's post might not have been what I'D have suggested, but he's just as entitled to give his two cents in the thread as a mod, whether the mod sees him as helpful or not. Personally if I disagree with somebody's advice I see it as unhelpful, but it doesn't mean it deserves to be discredited and told its absolutely useless. The guy involved and aware of the situation and people involved might actually see giving the abuser a kicking a really helpful piece of advice (moreso say than consulting a clinic). How is a mod to know that the husband's reaction is to lash out on the wife? They've never met the involved parties.

If this post is contravening any rules, feel free to delete it.

i totally agree!
in some cases it can be necessary. It shows the abuser that there are repacushions for his actions and it also shows him that even if his wife won't defend herself someone else will.

Santa Claus · 18-05-2005 2:23pm

leggo wrote:

Just to note, I think it's a tad bit ridiculous that mods are dishing out bans for people not agreeing with their advice.

I think the point Beruthiel was making is that generally violence does not solve problems and in this case it would probably create further problems.

If the guy got beaten up who's he going to take his anger and violence out on...THE PARTNER OF COURSE, so she justs gets more violence......So think about it, How does that help the situation ????

Having said that, I do agree that a scumbag like that gets everything he deserves BUT not at the cost of putting the innocent partner in further danger !

hullaballoo · 18-05-2005 2:25pm

Ok, there's a psychological reason why this woman isn't doing anything about the abuse and why she's staying in the relationship with her husband.

She's probably convinced that when it happens, it's her fault (which is usually the way the victims of abuse feel), and she thinks that when it's not happening it might not happen again.

There are three stages identified as characteristics of the syndrome but they're not exhaustive

(i) The tension building stage--the aggressor argues and picks fights whilst the victim tries to pacify the situation.

(ii) Acute Battery and assault.

(iii) The "Loving Contrition" Stage--the aggressor apologises and swears it will never happen again.

It's well documented that these stages are simply guideline characteristics. They are neither present in all cases, nor are the symptoms limited to these three.

The reason why this can become so serious is that there are a number of cases where women stay in the relationships and end up committing violent offences themselves, as they see this as their ony way out.

If I haven't told you everything you need to know, there's more here, and here, and here

Auf

...and please do something about it

TheBurningMan · 18-05-2005 2:27pm

The lady in question has a number of places where she can go to (and has done in the past) but has always come back to him after a day or two. I think the best idea i've heard here is to contact a refuge and ask their advise, so thanks for that.

daithimac · 18-05-2005 2:31pm

Santa Claus wrote:

I think the point Beruthiel was making is that generally violence does not solve problems and in this case it would probably create further problems.

If the guy got beaten up who's he going to take his anger and violence out on...THE PARTNER OF COURSE, so she justs gets more violence......So think about it, How does that help the situation ????

Having said that, I do agree that a scumbag like that gets everything he deserves BUT not at the cost of putting the innocent partner in further danger !

I think you teach people how to treat you and if someone punches you in the face and you allow it then its going to happen again and again getting worse. If a person gets some friends to deliver retrebrution then it may slow the attacks down.
I do not think that giving him a kicking is a solution, the only real solution is to get her to leave him, but I do think I can slow the problem down or atleast bring it to a head where she must leave him

masterK · 18-05-2005 2:45pm

Without trying to be controversial I think that she is failing her children (the one she has and the unborn one) by not leaving. How can she expect them to grow up as good balanced happy people if they have been subjected to an upbringing of domestic violence?

Is she won't leave for herself she must leave for her children.

Santa Claus · 18-05-2005 2:47pm

Daithi,
I understand what you are saying, hell if it was my sister I'd be down there thumping 7 shades out of him. But what would happen when I had to leave and she wouldn't come with me...She'd more than likely get a worse beating. So then what, he'd probably try to cut off her contact with me so she couldn't tell me when it happens again.

Getting others to beat him up would just make a vicious cycle even worse if she's not willing to do anything about it (Think about it, he could press charges against the people who beat him up but the wife might not be willing to press charges against him).

To the OP, do her family know about what's happening ?

Seraphina · 18-05-2005 3:12pm

i think trying to highlight the effect it would have on her children would be really important.
she said she doesn't want the stigma of being a single parent, but does she realise that having an abusive dad is going to be alot worse for the kids than having no dad at all? if he has no problems with hitting her, why would he have problems hitting the kids? and he could seriously hurt them if they are young. you need to make her realise that she's not just making herself suffer, but making her kids suffer too.
its so crazy that this **** still happens, i cant believe any woman would still put up with that kind of abuse. i have low self esteem myself, but nothing would ever make me believe that i deserved that kind of treatment, poor woman

4Xcut · 18-05-2005 4:02pm

Couple of other guys, hurley sticks. Problem Solved. Do exactly to him as he did to her, if he hit her across the face ye do the same to him. Men like him are a disease on the body that is the human race and should be excecuted. Sorry to go off the deep end but i just feel that violence towards women is completly inexcusable and cannot be punished enough.

Gordon · 18-05-2005 4:21pm

4xcut banned

embee · 18-05-2005 4:39pm

4Xcut wrote:

Couple of other guys, hurley sticks. Problem Solved. Do exactly to him as he did to her, if he hit her across the face ye do the same to him. Men like him are a disease on the body that is the human race and should be excecuted. Sorry to go off the deep end but i just feel that violence towards women is completly inexcusable and cannot be punished enough.

That would solve nothing. An eye for an eye makes everybody blind....

Talk to someone confidentially at a womens refuge, perhaps try to impress on her the psychological damage it could cause her kids. She could be unlucky someday and not escape a beating with her life. By all means be direct with her, but as for beating up her partner? That solves absolutely nothing, and the chances are, once he had recovered from a sufficient beating, he would take it out on her, or her children.

Agent Smith · 18-05-2005 4:45pm

i might get banned for this....

Wife beating is wrong, For example, if my Father ever tried to beat my mother, i would personally kick the Living Shít out of him. wife beating is a very Serrious crime, and it happens to more women then the satistics lead us to belive....

ever heard of the woman who walked into a door?

incedently, there is a rise in domestic abuse by woman against men. perhaps this is a new thing or men are just coming out and talking about it.

Joe

Boston · 18-05-2005 6:11pm

I'm going to get hopped on for saying this, maybe even banned but am I the only one that doesn't care what happens to the woman here. She has a choice to stay or go. She has people to turn to and a good job to support her. The children have no choice, they are forced to stay in a house that has domestic violence. I really couldn't care what emotional or confidence issues a woman has, a mothers duty is to her child. To choose a man like that to raise your children is sickening and neglect. It's child abuse and it's wrong.

To the original poster, if you're so certain of what's going on, you have a duty to report it to a social worker. Abusive husbands seldom limit themselves to just the wife. If you keep quiet about it, and someone dies, how would you feel about it.

AgentSmith, you've a profound lack of understanding of what a climate of fear can achieve. It is very doubtful that had you been raise in a situation where your father was regularly beating your mother, that you would ever stand up to him.

hullaballoo · 18-05-2005 6:19pm

LiouVille wrote:

I'm going to get hopped on for saying this, maybe even banned but am I the only one that doesn't care what happens to the woman here. She has a choice to stay or go.

That's exactly the point I made earlier,obviouly didn't get it across

she CAN'T leave, and it's not her fault.

Boston · 18-05-2005 6:23pm

She is physcially able to leave. Allot of women in her situation have had their friends cut off completely, family cut off, finances cut off, and are brainwashed to believe they can't leave. But thats not this situation. This situation she has money and support, she doesn't want to leave the guy, she's making hte decision that the occasional beating is an "ok" price to pay for not being a single mother.

Either which way you try to swing it, the only people that can't leave are the kids.

Agent Smith · 18-05-2005 6:27pm

LiouVille wrote:

AgentSmith, you've a profound lack of understanding of what a climate of fear can achieve. It is very doubtful that had you been raise in a situation where your father was regularly beating your mother, that you would ever stand up to him.

i was brought up to respect women.

Boston · 18-05-2005 6:29pm

agent smith wrote:

i was brought up to respect women.

Whats your point. If you had been brought up by a woman beater the last thing you would have is respect for women, you'd probably be taken to given the wife/gf a few smacks yourself. Comments like "if my dad hit my mother" are pointless, since if it was the case you wouldn't be the person you are now.

hullaballoo · 19-05-2005 9:45am

LiouVille wrote:

She is physcially able to leave. Allot of women in her situation have had their friends cut off completely, family cut off, finances cut off, and are brainwashed to believe they can't leave. But thats not this situation. This situation she has money and support, she doesn't want to leave the guy, she's making hte decision that the occasional beating is an "ok" price to pay for not being a single mother.

Either which way you try to swing it, the only people that can't leave are the kids.

Seriously man, you have to read this, if not for anything else, just for your own education.

Boston · 19-05-2005 2:38pm

hullaballoo wrote:

Seriously man, you have to read this, if not for anything else, just for your own education.

Just stop with the education bull please. I'm not denying that women in these situations feel trapped, like theres no way out for them. It's something that their abusers actively try to instill in them. Sure you can't help her untill she wants it, but you can help the children. In situations like this the children should be removed and placed in care, because the mother is obviously unable to make decisions in their best interest.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-05-2005 2:58pm

Gordon wrote:

We're not dishing out bans because the advice disagrees with our advice. We're banning people for advising violence on this public board.

thats fair enough but if you were actually giving some1 advice in real life most people would suggest violence....
if one of your friends husbands was abusing her what would you do if she didn't want the police due to shame etc...i don't think i would go looking for some1s advice anyway.

koneko · 19-05-2005 3:02pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

thats fair enough but if you were actually giving some1 advice in real life most people would suggest violence....

Would you? You'd give crappy advice in real life too?

I wouldn't. Beating the daylights out of this guy could lead to several outcomes. 1) he cops on and leaves her alone, solving the problem for her and removing the decision from her (the "best" option) - 2) he gets a bunch of his equally ape-like friends and beats the living daylights out of you and your friends or 3) he reports you to the police and YOU end up in prison. His wifey might have a problem reporting him, but he might have no problem reporting a bunch of guys that beat him up. In the eyes of the law, he hasn't been reported for any wife-beatings, but you have beaten him up.

You're advocating solving violence with more violence. Vicious circle, and doesn't make you a saint.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-05-2005 3:08pm

koneko wrote:

Would you? You'd give crappy advice in real life too?

i did not say i would,i would not.

koneko · 19-05-2005 3:08pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

i did not say i would,i would not.

Alright then

Tar.Aldarion · 19-05-2005 3:14pm

tbh i would have to know the exact situation to know how to deal with this as it cannot be answered over the internet otherwise,sure people would like to beat him up but realistically it is not a solution,having had a male friend who has become insane(not only insane but he has OCD too which i suppose the roots...)and made a female friend feel threatened i know how hard this situation can be.
no1 but the OP's friends who know the situation can really help out