The cursed numbers

TwoShedsJackson

I shamelessly copy and paste this from the SA Forums, where they have about 40 people picking over every reference in Lost.

The Cursed Numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42)

The latitude 4.815 and longitude 162.342 are located in the Pacific ocean northeast of Australia.

Boone found a map of Africa on the smuggler’s plane. Latitude: 16° 23 Min.42 Sec, Longitude: 4° 8 Min. 15 Sec. will put you in Niger, pretty close to where the map showed.


4

The number of years ago that Locke was paralysed.

The number of years ago that Sam Toomie committed suicide.

Leonard was playing Connect Four.

The number of years since Sawyer made his birthday wish.

The number of Aces (value 1) that were on Boone’s t-shirt. Also, Boone had another t-shirt with Asian letters that say 84.

Number of months Michelangelo stared at marble “working” in Locke’s story. Boone then asked if they were going to stare at the hatch for 4 months.

8

Number of years since Michael was hit by the car.

The number of years Michael didn’t see Walt.

The number of people who died in a fire in Hurley’s shoe factory in Canada.

The number of months Claire was pregnant when the plane crashed.

Boone had a t-shirt with 84 on it in Asian letters.

Number of months Locke was talking to Helen before the crash.

Number of days Charlie went without his guitar before Locke returned it to him.

Number of weeks Driveshaft was going to go on tour.

Shannon’s age when her father married Boone’s mother.

The aisle for regulation footballs in Locke’s store.


15

The number of members of Rousseau’s research team.

The aisle for Nerf footballs in Locke’s store.

16

The number of years Rousseau has been on the island (after hearing the numbers transmission that brought her science team there).

The number of hours the flight to L.A. was going to take.

The number of hours after the crash when the pilot was found.

The number of weeks the lottery had been un-won before Hurley won it.

Number of years since Boone’s nanny Teresa fell down the stairs and broke her neck.

23

The sum of both parts of the plane’s flight number.

Jack’s seat number on the plane was 23A.

The reward for turning in Kate was $23,000

42

Leonard was playing Connect 4. 42 is the number of spaces on a connect four game board.

Rousseau wrote down the number sequence seven times, creating a matrix that totals 42.

815

The flight number of the plane.

The number of the safety deposit box Kate robbed.

Charlie was trying to sell Copier model 815-C.

The number 815 in particular crops up quite a bit more than they mention here, interesting the way these are constantly reused though.

steveland?

Wow... and I thought I overanalysed things.........

Basq

You ain't seen the half of it!!..

.. here's an entire forum dedicated to discussion of "the cursed numbers"! (and take note of the URL! )

EDIT: Cheers for all the connections TwoShedsJackson! It's a bit out-of-date though.. below lists all connections up as far as Episode 20:

4
- # of years Locke was in his wheelchair
- # of guns in Marshall's case
- # of aces on Boone's t-shirt
- # of years since Hurley's grandfather got his pacemaker
- # of years since Sam Toome killed himself
- # of years since Sawyer made his “birthday wish”
- # of people that will fit on Micheals raft
- # of months michealangelo stared at marble “working” in Locke’s story/Boone then asks if they’re going to stare at the hatch for 4 months
- # of miles due west back to camp from where Locke ties up Boone
- # of people Micheal needed to help did Jack out of the cave-in
- # of refills of Shannons inhaler Boone brought with him
- # of people to die since the plane crash(the sky marshall, Scott, the lady that drowned, Ethan)
- # of days that pass before Jack decides to burn the fuselage/bodies for a signal
- # of kids the nurse taking care of Micheal has
- # of traps Locke sets up around camp to get Ethan
- # of times Hurley says Charlie shot Ethan(He actually was shot 6 times)
- # of months the Psychic tried to convince Claire to raise her baby alone before giving her money and telling her of the couple in LA
- # of weeks ago john wouldn’t have believed his crazy talk
- # of times Boone says “Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs” in Lockes Dream
- # of planes on the mobile in Claires dream
- # of dotted dice in a backgammon game
- # of times locke knocks on the hatch
- # of people who knew their blood type when Charlie asked them for it
- # of times jin hammers the raft with the axe before running off to help Kate
- # of 4's on jacks fiances shirt
- Shannon asks Boone what him and Locke have been doing in the jungle for the past 4 days
- Sayid said the French signal could be a SAT 4
- Leonard playing the game Connect Four
- Walt says he needs a 4-3 in the backgammon game


8
- # of months Claire was pregnant when they crashed
- # of Km the hitman tells Jin to drive
- # of people that die in Hurley's shoe factory fire
- # of whiskey shots between Sawyer and Christian Shepherd
- # of hours Kate would spend in the woods with her father tracking deer
- # of years since Micheal got hit by car
- # of years Micheals been writing Walt
- # of months Locke and Helen have been talking
- # of days since Charlie went with out his guitar
- # of weeks driveshaft was going to tour
- # of days after the crash Jack/other survivors moved to the caves
- # of years Micheal worked in construction
- # of months since farmers wife died
- # of years since Kate was arrested(based on mug shot info)
- Sawyers age when his Dad killed himself and his wife(sawyer may have been 9)
- Shannon's age when her Dad married Boones Mom
- news station at Hurley’s Lotto interview
- Walt born in August
- Aisle the regulation footballs are in at the toy store locke works at


15
- # of members on Danielle's research team
- # on whiskey bottle that Sawyer and Christian drink from
- # of hours Boone flew to rescue his sister
- # of kilometers to nearest town from aussie farm
- aisle the nerf footballs are in at the toy store locke works at
- Lockes mom born October 15th
- 584-243-15 appears on the papers about Locke's Mother


16
- # of years Danielle’s distress has been looping
- # of weeks since someone won the lottery before Hurley
- # of years since Sam and Lenny heard the numbers
- # of hours Jack told the lady at the airport desk he had to land in LAX to bury his father/# of hours of flight
- # of red dots in Oceanic logo
- Jack, Kate, and Charlie found the pilot 16 hours after the crash
- Age of patient of Jacks first solo procedure
- On numerical die in backgammon game, firs time played
- On “dotted” die in same game numbers were 4, 2, 6, 4, which when added = 16
- 4 x 4(four 4's on jacks fiances shirt) = 16


23
- Jack's seat number was 23A
- The reward for turning Kate in is $23,000
- appears as part of a pin number on one of the crates found inside the drug plane.


42
- # of spaces on a game of Connect Four board
- # of days late Claires period was when she found out she was preggers


* 815 *
- Flight #815
- Safety deposit box that Kate wanted
- Copier Charlie sold was model #C-815
- Locke tells his mom the footballs are in aisles 8 and 15
- 564815 appears on the papers about Locke's Mom.


* Major Multiples *
- Plane hit turbulence at 40,000 ft
- Charlie jokes about Locke bringing 400 knives
- The guy with the beans was running that scam for 40 years
- “Adam and Eve” have been in the caves for 40 years
- Sawyer got $160,000 from the girls husband as part of the scam
- Lockes mom born in 1940
- Jacks fiancés pajama shirt had a 44 on it
- 44 original survivors left(48 minus the marshall, joanne, scott, and boone)


* Combos *
- Driveshaft is #234 on the jukebox. 23 and 4
- 48 survivors. 4 and 8
- Boones shirt has the Japanese symbol for 84 on it. 8 and 4

Kazaanova

I think that Locke, Sawyer Jack etc. appearing on the cover of Entertainment Weekly, issue 815, is just amazing.

Great list by the way.

Basq

Kazaanova wrote:

I think that Locke, Sawyer Jack etc. appearing on the cover of Entertainment Weekly, issue 815, is just amazing.

Yeah.. that was excellent!

For those of you who don't know what we mean! ** SPOILER! **

monomaniac

Great to see the Lost forum up and running.

Don't forget that 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything.

Mr E

Another one last night... Kates tape was recorded on August 15th (8/15)

Basq

TmB wrote:

Another one last night... Kates tape was recorded on August 15th (8/15)

How'd you catch that?!

Nice one!

doh.ie

Basquille - www.4815162342.com - hilarious! Love the URL.

Some of the connections to the numbers are weak, (e.g. - # of times locke knocks on the hatch etc) but I do think the producers early on told the prop guys to drop them in, which is why they are visible on Locke's mother's info from the detective or why Driveshaft was 234 on the jukebox.

Damn clever, though.

Mr E

Cool forum.... lots of great reading there.

Kazaanova

I think the numbers are the biggest thing on the island, much bigger than Waltes ability etc. I mean the transmission and broadcasts not the actual numbers

What I think they're saying with the numbers is that a lot of the stuff that has gone on, and will go on, on the island is just coincidence. Like a lot of people having small connections to each other in flashbacks etc. I bet any of us could take those numbers and make about 50 connections between them and our lives during the course of a week. What they're doing on Lost is pointing them out so people think theres something up. Still pretty cool though. The first time I started noticing the numbers on Lost, that thing shot into my mind. You know the american thing that says if you sit beside someone on a plane you'll have some sort of connection to them.

Locke

Excellent Excellent list

Hyzepher

I was waiting to see the first Lost inspired username

Hyzepher

monkeyfudge

Kazaanova wrote:

I bet any of us could take those numbers and make about 50 connections between them and our lives during the course of a week.

Ha. I think I might just try that out. Anyone else want to try?

Locke

I bet someone will use sawyer......

How many people on this forum live in Ireland? If how do you watch "lost" I don't believe it's aired in the UK/Ireland but you can get it on Scandinavian TV if you have a satellite dish....or just download them

Basq

Locke wrote:

....or just download them

That's just scandalous!! :eek:

monkeyfudge

Locke wrote:

I bet someone will use sawyer......

How many people on this forum live in Ireland? If how do you watch "lost" I don't believe it's aired in the UK/Ireland but you can get it on Scandinavian TV if you have a satellite dish....or just download them

down... load? What's going on? I don't understand....

ixoy

Locke wrote:

How many people on this forum live in Ireland? If how do you watch "lost" I don't believe it's aired in the UK/Ireland but you can get it on Scandinavian TV if you have a satellite dish....or just download them

Locke, I'm not sure what you mean by download? Don't get the concept.

Any of us in Ireland, who are watching the show, have cousins in America. They kindly record the shows for us and umm send them to us by swift post. Very very swift delivery. We really love our cousins but unfortunately some of them were killed in a spate of violence last week and a few of us are looking for new ones...

sionnach

my cousins in chicago built a trebuchet and fling a cd with the latest lost episode on it over here early every thursday morning

Basq

sionnach wrote:

my cousins in chicago built a trebuchet and fling mine over early every thursday morning

** giggles **

Loved the "trebuchet" reference there, sionnach!

sionnach

made of 815 pieces of timber..... dum DUM DUMMMM

Hyzepher

Not too sure whether 'downloading' tv shows actually infringes any copyright - love if someone could enlighted me.

Hyzepher

sionnach

nobody has ever been prosecuted for downloading television shows afaik, however it looks like the places to get them are being shut down

doh.ie

BTEfnet is still running (not on the web, though) and they claim they were NOT sued.

Also, great article on this topic here: http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html

And lastly, I personally don't consider it illegal (not in the way MP3 downloading is) as long as the shows are 'broadcast' TV shows and not available on DVD. Most of us go on to buy the same shows on DVD later anyway. I consider downloading TV shows to be very little different from borrowing a video copy of a recording from a friend.

Of course, if someone were to build up a DVD collection (of DVD-rips) and *not* buy what they otherwise would have, that would be illegal.

Grey area and all that - thought the above article made some very good points for finally making it legal and authorised.

Basq

doh.ie wrote:

BTEfnet is still running (not on the web, though) and they claim they were NOT sued.

Yeah.. saw the website was down this this morning.

Still, It's easy to find them if Really NeCessary!

Hyzepher

How is downloading different from recording via video - same end result.

Hyzepher

Basq

Hyzepher wrote:

How is downloading different from recording via video - same end result.

Hyzepher

Excellent point Hyzepher!

The powers-that-be (goverment etc.) always have had, and always will have, a massive fear of the Internet.

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

The powers-that-be (goverment etc.) always have had, and always will have, a massive fear of the Internet.

Yep, cos it is largely uncontrolable for one. The link I posted above suggests that an iTunes for television (iTV?) wouldn't work cos people are not used to paying for it and that advertising either on an on-screen logo or with a 30-second "Sponsored by" trailer before-hand would be a better alternative.

I think the only legal grey area here is that the programmes are often not licenced for transmission outside the US and Canada at that point. You could argue that the advance 'transmission' is what is illegal, rather than the means of viewing it, or the storage of it. (The storage really isn't an issue once it has been broadcast locally - no different, say, than making a xvid file of Lost's premiere on RTE TWO next Monday). And ultimately, I expect many TV show fans buy them on DVD when they're released anyway.

So if there was ever any prosecution on this, it is more likely to come from threatened international sales than anything else. The Irish market is negligible - Lost cost under €150,000 for a full series. But in the UK and Australia - bigger markets with a TV population many times our own, it was many, many millions. Numbers are small at the moment - max of 30,000-40,000 worldwide - but US distributors won't tolerate any evidence of, say,
downloaders ceasing their Sky or Foxtel (Australia) subscriptions cos they can get programming elsewhere.

In some cases, and I believe it in the case of Battlestar and Doctor Who, downloading actually increased the hype and anticipation for the series and ultimately it rated higher when actually broadcast.

steveland?

If it weren't for downloading episodes this forum wouldn't exist. It's very probable that most of the people on this forum wouldn't have heard of the show and wouldn't be telling everyone (I know I am) to watch the show when it starts on RTE and E4.

I know I'm still going to buy the DVD when it comes out (for the completeness) cos it's likely to have good extras (think about a documentary about the numbers etc...)

Also it's generating traffic for boards.ie (not necessarily a good thing mind if you wanna think of it in bandwidth terms:)) and if boards.ie do go through with setting up affiliate links TV forums like this could generate loads of sales from Amazon/CDWow or wherever and also get a nice bit of cash for boards...

If affiliate links to DVDs like Lost, Veronica Mars, Arrested Development, 24 or any of the other shows we discuss here do pop up (I don't mean pop-up obviously... I wouldn't be a happy bunny then ) then I'd have absolutely no problem using those links to buy them...

DeVore

The act of making a copy of an artistic work is illegal without the copywrite holders explicit permission. Possessing such material is also illegal.
The prosecuteability of such an act is neither here nor there. The morality of it in your mind is similarly irrelevant. Its illegal.

I'm a huge Lost fan, I agree that illegal downloads have helped it and many other shows/films/albums along but dont fool yourself that that makes it any less illegal, particularly in this country where the artist automatically owns copyright.

DeV.

Hyzepher

Is that also true for simply video taping a show as it airs on tv

Hyzepher

doh.ie

Hyzepher wrote:

Is that also true for simply video taping a show as it airs on tv

This is apparently legal, as it just "time-shifts" the original broadcast. Of course, many millions worldwide used to "collect" programmes and movies from TV up until the advent of video and DVD releases. Many still do.

I don't think of Lost (or any TV show downloads) as being any different from recording off the TV, other than the means by which they are received. That the programme in many cases hasn't been "authorised" for distribution in that particular country is where the legal grey area creeps in and where the copyright issue fully emerges.

(For example, if someone was to download the Lost pilot on Tuesday morning after it had aired on RTE here, then it would be less dodgy than picking it up today. If someone in the UK had, then no more than ourselves now, the programme wouldn't have been authorised for viewing there.)

The question is - "ownership" illegality aside - whether it is legal to have a copy of a show which has aired on television on CD/DVD (as an xvid) in the same way it is legal to have a copy of a programme that has aired on video.
I often download several Channel 4 or BBC documentaries I miss from another site (mostly cos I forgot to watch/tape them), but could easily have those on tape for later viewing anyway. Is this any different from taping them from broadcast television?

(Of course, in most cases, many of the programmes we're talking about have not aired in local markets - which is usually the reason for the downloading in the first place.)

I do think all of this will change in time - for now, it's just a case of waiting for the entertainment industry to catch up with the intertainment one...

Locke

My take was that the numbers could very well be the coordinates of the Island:

4°8'15" S 162°3'42" W (or 4°8'15" S 162°34'2" W which is very near) This gives us a point North East of Fiji and North West of Tahiti, a very likely location for the Island according to what we know of its location.

Now if we take the coordinates as follows: 4°8'15" N 16°23'42" E this gives us location near Bangui in Central Africa Republic, not that far from Nigeria, but not that close to it either (a little less than 1000 miles).

Another interesting point is the exact opposite on Earth from Nigeria is the South Pacific.
Which made me try the exact opposite of the probable coordinates of the Island. These are: 4°8'15" N 17°46'18" E (I might be off a minute or a second, but it doesn't matter than much). Which interestingly places us also near Bangui in Central Africa.

We can deduce a few things from this:
-the numbers are not the coordinates of the Island (and the island could be on the exact opposite side from Nigeria)
or
-the numbers are not related to Nigeria.
or
-the plane was coming from Nigeria, going to Central Africa and magically ended up on the other side of the planet (but I'm really not a big fan of the supernatural theories about the show, I like how everything can be explained more or less realistically so far).

I haven't read all the threads yet, but in case anybody is making this assumptions, such a plane just CANNOT fly from Nigeria to South Pacific, only Jumbo Jets and similar planes can.

steveland?

Have a look at the rest of the forum, there's already a thread for this...

I'm merging the two because there's no need for two threads

Hyzepher

Dont ask me why I am spoilering this - just because...

I have read alot about the co-ordinates theory and I dont think it is a feasible answer. I do know that it is because of the numbers that people arrive on the island. Dont forget the transmission coming from the isalnd - that led to Rosseau getting there - included the numbers - she replaced the original message with her own. Another subtlty from the show was Rosseau's agreement with Hurley that the numbers were cursed - she even said it in a tone that signified a relevation - yet there is no evidence that she knows about the hatch and that the numbers are on it. This leads us to believe that she has had experience with the numbers since she landed on the island - afterall she got her scientists to try and discover what they meant.

The theory about the plane not being able to fly to the island from Africa ia moot as it doesn't necessarily have to fly direct. However, what is more interesting is the fact that Locke had a 'vision' about the plane etc. that bordered on psychic ability - akin to Walt. The only difference being that Walt had the ability BEFORE he was on the island. A point that I think will have great bearing on the series.

HYzepher

doh.ie

Locke wrote:

-the numbers are not the coordinates of the Island (and the island could be on the exact opposite side from Nigeria)

Speculation:

Maybe the hatch is a tunnel to the centre of the Earth and it comes out in Africa! Doubt it, but I do like the idea that a plane which has links to Nigeria could potentially have arrived on this island by unusual (although hopefully plausible) means...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Basq

Cheers for that Dave.

Already posted though: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=255282

The episode 'Numbers' is a real thinker... we had about 100 posts on the Lost thread just dedicated to it.

Cabaal

In Fairness whoever wrote all that has alot of time on their hands

steveland?

Numbers threads merged for neatness... We'll have a load of Lost virgins after tonight I'd say so best to keep the seperate posts to a minimum to prevent temptation

Basq

steveland? wrote:

We'll have a load of Lost virgins after tonight I'd say so best to keep the seperate posts to a minimum to prevent temptation

Agreed... did my bit anyways!

I put a reminder that 'Lost' begins tonight on RTE2 in the 'Television' forum and specified that all discussions of the Pilot should remain in the thread created for this purpose.

Dar

A few wild observations:

4: The number of people who have died since the crash.
4: The number of people leaving on the raft.

I havnt seen exodus yet, but assuming 4 leave, that means 8 people will have "left" the island by the end.

Including the baby the show concentrates on 15 of the survivors.

My count might be wrong, but as far as I can remember only 23 characters on the island had speaking parts:

Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Charlie, Locke, Harvey, Michael, Walt, Sun & the husband, claire, boon & his sister, sayid, rose, roussou, steve, scott, the marshall, the evil dude, the hypocondriac, the teacher & the pilot.

There were 48 survivors. 4 people have died, and 4 are leaving (again i havnt seen exodus yet, so maybe not) island, that leaves 40. Add the baby and the french woman and that leaves 42 known people alive on the island.