Ambassador being tight on age

Necronomicon

Hey,
I knew that the Ambassador have become strict on ID for gigs, but how strict are they? I'm going to Slayer, I am 18 and have my passport, but looking at the Anthrax thread it sounded like they were being too strict and even people who were 18 could have problems.

herobear

as long as you're 18, with valid ID & ticket, and not acting like a knob to the doormen you'll be fine

It wasn't me!

You'll be grand. It's people like me who'll have problems.

0utshined

It wasn't me! wrote:

You'll be grand. It's people like me who'll have problems.

Are you not 18?

Doctor J

Gentlemen, I propose a proper petition, not a web based one. Get it signed by your folks, your friends and people at gigs. Try and get the media involved (Ireland AM seems to thrive on this sort of thing) and make your grievances known to MCD. Don't just sit here bitching about it, do something!

You will have my full support and countless others here and also talk to www.gigsmartireland.com , I think it's ****ing disgraceful that under 18's aren't allowed into gigs. :mad:

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

Gentlemen, I propose a proper petition, not a web based one. Get it signed by your folks, your friends and people at gigs. Try and get the media involved (Ireland AM seems to thrive on this sort of thing) and make your grievances known to MCD. Don't just sit here bitching about it, do something!

You will have my full support and countless others here and also talk to www.gigsmartireland.com , I think it's ****ing disgraceful that under 18's aren't allowed into gigs. :mad:

especially those under 18's who are indeed accompanied by a responsible 21 yr old - which is what used to be the case

Chalk

but when the goverment changed the law about under 18s in bars a while ago didnt all that go out the window?

the ambassador is just a big bar with a stage,
they havent got it sectioned off likt the olympia or other places

Dr. Loon

Doctor J wrote:

Don't just sit here bitching about it, do something!

That's the key there Doctor... and the question is will anybody do anything abou t it?

Doctor J

Chalk wrote:

but when the goverment changed the law about under 18s in bars a while ago didnt all that go out the window?

the ambassador is just a big bar with a stage,
they havent got it sectioned off likt the olympia or other places

They have two bars, one upstairs and one downstairs. There is no reason (apart from monetary ones) for them to not allow minors upstairs only and close the bar there (as they have done on several occasions before).

Ph3n0m

I have just sent the following to Ireland Am (you never know what might happen)


"To whom it concerns

I wonder if the general public area aware of the recent, and for use of a better word, discrimination by concert promoters towards young music fans.

I am speaking primarily of the rock/heavy metal genre - where promoters such as MCD deem suitable to restrict concerts of this genre to over 18's only. There is no exception, not even for an under 18 can be accompanied into the concert by someone over 21, which used to be the case up until recently.

Granted alcohol are served at most of this concerts, but that is where ID should be requested - and any under 18 that can afford the extortionate prices venues charge for alcohol during a concert - well I would love to have his parents/part time job.

Speaking as someone, who, when I was 14/15 went to plenty of concerts which served alcohol, with no problems getting into the venue, I just think its quite sad that the majority of young fans today are going to be denyed the chance to see their favourite bands playing.

And yet if a festival is put on (which I have attended several in Ireland) - under 18s can be seen scattered throughout the crowds - even though alcohol is on sale through out the day and venue.

Is it a case of one law for one type of fan and another law for the rest of the people?"

Matthewthebig

They need to what was the norm for days of hardcore. No id. put a feaking big X on your hand in permenant marker. that way you have no chance of getting served.

Anyone agree?

TCP/IP

I agreee that under 18's should not be allowed into gigs that serve booze, it is simply a case that there is not enough staff to check ID the only way around it would be some sort of tag that would prove age like a wristband that can only be removed by cutting. Also a lot of people dont want kids on a night out so that must be taken into account. The only other option would be an under 18 gig on another night with the bars closed.

Doctor J

Nice one, Ph3n0m

Ph3n0m

TCP/IP wrote:

I agreee that under 18's should not be allowed into gigs that serve booze, it is simply a case that there is not enough staff to check ID the only way around it would be some sort of tag that would prove age like a wristband that can only be removed by cutting. Also a lot of people dont want kids on a night out so that must be taken into account. The only other option would be an under 18 gig on another night with the bars closed.

Sorry but that is absolute tosh - why do people que up at the front door of any venue - the security control the crowd on how they filter into a venue, so they can take their time checking ID and letting people in. And we are not talking about a bunch of screaming 6/7 year olds - we are talking about teenagers (like I once was) trying to experience a band first hand and live.

All the gigs I went to when I was 14/15 - I managed to survive because I couldnt afford to bloody well drink at the venues - I was there for one thing - the music

TCP/IP

Yes but as you can I am sure agree things have changed since then and people can afford to drink. If people were there just for the music there would be no problem but it is these days

Ph3n0m

people were able to afford the drink prices years ago too - just because I never drank in the venue doesnt mean I was never drunk

Doctor J

TCP/IP wrote:

people can afford to drink.

? ?

People could always afford to drink. If MCD are unable to organise a structure for preventing minors from being served alcohol in a venue with a segragated structure then they should stop what they're doing. There is no reason for kids to be penailsed because of this country's drinking culture. Gigs are about music. If someone wants to drink, then fine, but it shouldn't be at the expense of someone who is there for the music.

Matthewthebig

Doctor J wrote:

They have two bars, one upstairs and one downstairs. There is no reason (apart from monetary ones) for them to not allow minors upstairs only and close the bar there (as they have done on several occasions before).

The problem with that is, that the person can not be in the pit up close. I'm seventeen and going to Slayer, if i was stuck upstairs i would be right royaly pissed off. and would probably just dive off the top. but seriously although it is a partway solution it still is a bitch for underagers

Doctor J

Matthewthebig wrote:

The problem with that is, that the person can not be in the pit up close. I'm seventeen and going to Slayer, if i was stuck upstairs i would be right royaly pissed off. and would probably just dive off the top. but seriously although it is a partway solution it still is a bitch for underagers

Would you rather be upstairs or outside?

Ph3n0m

Matthewthebig wrote:

would probably just dive off the top

and for that, even I would beat the everlovin' piss out of you - I've had people balconey dive onto me without warning and each time I have hurt them because they have hurt me.

Just because you aint in the pit, doesnt mean you cant enjoy a gig - when you get to my age - you will be be happy just standing at the side, and appreciating the band on stage, instead of hurling around a sweaty pit, barely able to see the band and trying to help everyone up that falls down

Matthewthebig

Good point. but in seats is still very different from being on the floor. with the rest of the people.

Mind you at SLF where i was 16, a security gaurd was complaining to me about all the underage people in the venue. which was funny.

hopefully i'll look old enough for Slayer anyway

Chalk

thats one argument for no under 18s.
its not safe for them in the gig.

now i know you werent *too* serious about balcony diving
but if some big metallers decides to mosh the crap out of somenone and they get bruised up,
when theyre over 18 thats their problem,
under 18 and mammy and daddy wil be ringin the solicitior monday morning to sue the arses off the venue for not taking care of their little darling.
thats not directed at you, just an example of the carp that happens in this countyr these days...

Matthewthebig

Thing is though you have 15 year olds who are tanks compared to some more "seasoned" gig goers, so i think that is a moot point.

As i've said: check id at door if they have id let them in. if not put a huge big permenant marker X on their hand. Then they won't be able to get booze

Chalk

how is it moot?

a 15 yr old is a 15 yr old.
parents let them out to a gig and something happens,
venues at fault,
especially if the kid is let in drunk / gets drink inside

Matthewthebig

Just the size thing moreso.

I really don't know, what can be done. But Slipknot is 16 so its just the Ambassador that has gotten so strict at the mo

Chalk

one thing to consider is that the ambassador probably draws more attention than most places tho.
right at the top of o'connell st, putting on more and more gigs when theyre trying to clean up the capitals main thoriughfare and all that jazz
also theres a garda station 100 yards from the place.

theyre probably just being careful, wrt what i was saying about the bar being part of the venue, the last thing they need is a bunch of tanked up under 18s tumbling down o'connell st after the gig as the gards will jump on them,
whether they got the booze at the bar, chugged a flagon on cathedral st or had a naggin in the ass crack.

Ph3n0m

Again using myself as an example, the list of "injuries" I recieved at concerts, before I was 18 - was quite impressive. However not once did mammy or daddy get onto the solicitor to sort it out.

My reasoning - if you are old enough to go to these concerts on your own, you are old enough to look after yourself.

And anyways anyone who thinks they can go into a moshpit and not come out even the slightest bit worse for wear - is either wearing a suit of armour or dreaming

Chalk

hehe i know what you mean,
i wasnt saying this has happened or ever will,
but in *modern* ireland i reckon, insurance-wise a concert venue is gonna have to do some seriuos ass covering.
just look at whats happening with skate parks and almost anything that involves under 18's taking a risk* on private proerty.

next time your talking to a shop keeper ask him what his public liabilty insurance is.

*read taking a risk as not being wrapped up in cotton wool and attached to some sort of permanent structure.

Deadwing

Chalk wrote:

thats one argument for no under 18s.
its not safe for them in the gig.

now i know you werent *too* serious about balcony diving
but if some big metallers decides to mosh the crap out of somenone and they get bruised up,
when theyre over 18 thats their problem,
under 18 and mammy and daddy wil be ringin the solicitior monday morning to sue the arses off the venue for not taking care of their little darling.
thats not directed at you, just an example of the carp that happens in this countyr these days...

Thats exactly what i was gonna say. gigs are over 18's not because they dotn want kids getting in and getting drunk, but because kids under 18 are an insurance risk, venues wont be covered if a minor gets injured, or something like that, and then can be sued by little jimmys parents when he gets a wallop in the mosh pit.
Ahhh how great it is to be 25 and going to see slayer....

Doctor J

They don't want U18s at gigs? Damn, Avril Lavigne is gonna be fairly lonely next week, eh?

Deadwing

Doctor J wrote:

They don't want U18s at gigs? Damn, Avril Lavigne is gonna be fairly lonely next week, eh?

It wasn't me!

I can handle myself. Nobody who's seen me is going to think I'm going to be battered around the place in a pit, realistically, unless Jonah Lomu happens to unfortunately be checking out Slayer at the same time as me. :rolleyes: I'm probably less of an insurance risk than half the over-eighteens from the point of view of "How likely is this kid to get creamed". I'm fifteen, and I'm not a security or insurance risk. What more is there to say really?

Also, if anyone wants to start a petition I'd be glad to sign it. You can PM me for an address. I'm sure I could send it to plenty of people who'd sign it as well.

Mr. CooL ICE

Ph3n0m wrote:

Again using myself as an example, the list of "injuries" I recieved at concerts, before I was 18 - was quite impressive. However not once did mammy or daddy get onto the solicitor to sort it out.

If you think about it, not all parents are like yours or mine, there are parents out there who would go as far as purposefully wetting the bathroom floor of a restaurant and 'slipping' on it just to sue for the extra cash, and a bruise or scratch on their precious little jimmy mightnt be of immediate concern to them, but a chance for more money.

Again, i think the best way to do it is have underagers upstairs. Ok, its unfair for aforementioned 15-year olds who are probably bigger than me, but a venues management has to draw the line somewhere.

dellytots

Back to the Ambassador - I was ID'd at Idlewild last week, which was the first time that ever happened to me at a gig. Roddy dedicated American/English to everyone who came to the gig and the people sitting outside who couldnt get in because they were underage.

I think that would be horrible for any underage person to have saved up for the ticket, got all ready to see a band they love only to be turned away because of no ID this is mainly due to alcohol being served,which isnt their main reason for being at the venue in the first place. They can say its about safety reasons, but Ive seen the mosh pits at festivals and underage gigs...

Töpher

Sure didn't some kids parents try to sue Deftones in 94 (I think), over a dislocated shoulder?

It is ridiculous, apart from the TBMC I never had trouble going to gigs when I was younger, but you could just walk in their side door - so it wasn't a big deal I'd be livid if I was under 18 without what seems to be the situation now.

Unfortunately, MCD are in a win-win situation here. All they have to do is put it in small print in the ticket (which, they don't check for ID when you're buying it!), and they get your money, for well nothing! They then don't have to let you in, but they allowed the ticket to be sold to you, and wander off with your cash, and techincally don't lose money on the bar cuz you wouldn't have been buying booze anyways (in a legal sense).

So, you could work from the technical standpoint that you didn't know the gig was Over 18's only until AFTER you'd paid for your ticket, at which point you can't get a refund, and MCD just stole your money by not warning in advance you of the age-limit policy in place. (I'd imagine they're more likely to find some way of accomadating you then, MCD being the money grabbing bastards that they are would not even consider handing out refunds!)

If someone gets a petition going I'll fully support it. That said, if you want something done, YOU HAVE TO START IT YOURSELVES. Those over 18 will fully support you 100% I am sure, but you can't sit around waiting for people who this doesn't really effect to start the complaining for you! That said, the more people, the better the atmosphere (usually).

It wasn't me!

Would I need a license or anything stupidly beaurocratic to have a public signing at the Central Bank or somewhere? I might ask the people in Musicmaker could I have the petition signed there or something. Anyone got ideas? I really want to start this.

Suaimhneach

For Stairway to Zeppelin, I got my cousin into the Ambassador no problems. We came in right at the end of the queue though.

She's 15, and I am 18. A great night was had.

If you just try to blend in in the queue. Or make friends with some 25 year olds while your standing around you should be able to get in okay.

Hope you do get in because as the lads have been saying its ridicoulous taht it'd be otherwise.

It wasn't me!

It's only been happening since February, since the Megadeth gig, and it seems pretty tough. I'm going with a bunch of adults but if they ID me, all I'm going to have is a scanned passport.

Ph3n0m

It wasn't me! wrote:

It's only been happening since February, since the Megadeth gig, and it seems pretty tough. I'm going with a bunch of adults but if they ID me, all I'm going to have is a scanned passport.

and if they refuse you, you have nothing to argue about - the tickets say strictly over 18's. And much as I would like to say have a great time at the gig, chances are if you are stopped, you aint going to get in

Doctor J

And chances are, you'll be stopped

Suaimhneach

Ah lads, don't be so negitive. If you're going in with adults, or people who look of age, you'll be grand. Bouncers can sense fear. Just stop worrying and try to look forward to the gig and you's'll be grand.

Ph3n0m

Jesjes wrote:

Ah lads, don't be so negitive. If you're going in with adults, or people who look of age, you'll be grand. Bouncers can sense fear. Just stop worrying and try to look forward to the gig and you's'll be grand.

sorry its absolutely nowt to do with who you are with - the bouncers are taking a much closer look at everyone. If they are remotely suspicious about your age, they will ask for ID.

It is not meant to be negative in away, just being realistic - with the amount of disappointed under 18s that were refused entry for Anthrax, it is only to serve as a warning to anyone attending what is marked down as a "strictly over 18s gig"

and as for that "sense fear", what next bouncers with jedi mind powers?

Doctor J

The same thing happened at Idlewild the week before, so it's nothing to do with Metal bands or genre, it appears to be due to licencing and they are taking it very seriously, so I echo what Ph3n0m said.

Suaimhneach

I get that lads, I do. I am just saying, if they are suspicious of your age, it could be cause you look worried and shifty!

Underagers should totally be allowed go supervised. But if these lads are gonna try get in regardless, as they've bought their tickets, the best advice is chill or the bouncers will get all jedi on your ass.

Doctor J

If they are suspicious of your age it's more likely because you look young.

I agree entirely that supervised underagers should be allowed in, but the situation at the moment is that looking young yet keeping cool won't get you in. They are taking it seriously, going on the two gigs I've been to there in the last two weeks.

It wasn't me!

I don't look that young but I imagine I'll still get ID'd.

Does anyone think a scanned passport'll work? Going on the basis that I don't drive, so I don't have a license, and I don't drink, so I don't have an age card, and I'm not bringing my actual passport to a gig. It's a fairly comprehensive story unless they decide that they just don't want to let me in. Any advice? Opinions? Recommendations? I intend doing a damn good job on the passport though, not some petty ten minute job where the fake numbers are crooked. :rolleyes:

Ph3n0m

Based on years of experience this is what you can expect


If you look old enough, you wont be ID'd at all

If you look babyfaced or young, you will be asked for valid ID

Scanned in documents will not be allowed - I have never seen any bouncer/security accept scanned-in documents unless you happen to be a busty young maiden

The only documents I have personally seen bouncers accept are drivers licence, real passports and occasionally gardai ID

Also one thing I would add is that if you were glasses - take them off - for some reason glasses do appear to make people look younger!

Failing all that, I really dont know what else to say, then good luck - and I hope you youngsters do get in - gigs like this always slay

It wasn't me!

Heh... Slayer, slay...

I'll be wearing contacts on the night. I'm not small, so it'll be question of whether my face gets me through or not I suppose. Unfortunately, I am not a busty young maiden, so that's out the window. Doubtless some of you will see me there, probably not being let in. Whether you recognise me or not is a different story. The scanned passport is a slim hope if I'm ID'd. Would I be better off making a show of looking for my ID and pretending I've forgotten it?

Doctor J

You'd be better off frowning and saying "ID? What ID? I haven't been asked that in years. I'm 28!"

It wasn't me!

It'll be tricky enough to pull off eighteen or nineteen, never mind twenty eight! I take it you're going then Doc?

senordingdong

I agree that it is an absoloutly ridiculous rule.
That drink fans take priority over music fans at a concert.

I've alwasy been big for my age and even when I was underage I didn't have trouble getting in, though I thought it was ****e to see obvious fans get refused.

Alot of the time it seems to be down to the security gaurds.
Most of the ones I've come across have been sound and understanding to kids in this situation and let them on through.