Pope Benedict XVI (was...yeah)

HeyYou · 26-04-2005 7:14pm #1

Seeing as it's topical and all that jazz: what do people think about the election of Joseph Ratzinger as Pope Benedict XVI? Was he the right choice? Is it OK to be conservative? Is it a pity he had the chance to choose the name Sixtus VI and didn't? There was a huge turnout for all the shenanigans in Rome, and people seem to be wishing him well, but if he came to Ireland would you go to see him?

Crash · 26-04-2005 7:44pm

Palpatine. also i'm waiting around for Sixtus IX - that'll be funny as hell

as for seeing him - no. not at all. not a matter for me. meh

Matthewthebig · 26-04-2005 7:53pm

IX is 9
VI is 6

Just thought I'd be pedantic

Caoimhe · 26-04-2005 8:08pm

I'm not currently a fan purely because he went and got feckin elected as pope the day before my german leaving cert oral and he's a bleedin Deutscher...

mentalimplosion · 26-04-2005 8:50pm

i think that in 2005 the catholic church is most definitely not ready for a liberal pope. definitely. i disagree with the whole system of pope-electing and such but overall i think that, in the current state that the church is in, maybe ol benedict was a little too conservative., which could lead to more alienation of modern catholics, which would definitely lead to reduced mass-going, and that's something the church doesn't need.
i didn't expect the church to adapt immediately to the modern religious/spiritual/cultural climate just because pope john paul died, and since it really has nothing to do with me, i think that ratzinger will do whatever the pope should be doing, in pope terms. which is basically denouncing feminism and homosexuality, and condoms, and hiv and all that jazz

kevinroche · 26-04-2005 9:16pm

I don't think anyone can come down on one side or the other on Ratzinger. Lets see what he does first. He hasn't had a chance yet.

I hadn't been a fan of the late Pope for most of his Papacy, but boy did I do a classic Minister McDowell on it just before he died. I actually gained a huge amount of respect for the man and even started going back to Mass.

I honestly never ever thought that could happen.... but it did

Crash · 26-04-2005 9:16pm

Matthewthebig wrote:

IX is 9
VI is 6

Just thought I'd be pedantic

<----thats the point.

Sixtus.

The Ninth.

think about it.

quick off the mark arent yeh? :P

Matthewthebig · 26-04-2005 9:18pm

I get it. Now. I'm a moron. Podge won't be too happy about this thread.

Zounds · 26-04-2005 9:59pm

Matthewthebig wrote:

IX is 9
VI is 6

Just thought I'd be pedantic

that's not being pedantic, that's pointing out the bleeding obvious

Plunky · 26-04-2005 10:07pm

Am I the only one who doesn't get it?

Crash · 26-04-2005 10:24pm

Sixtus - 6

Ninth - 9

6. 9.

69.

etc.

Plunky · 26-04-2005 10:27pm

...sex joke?

doonothing · 26-04-2005 10:42pm

jaysus

thats a fairly pathetic joke haha!

aaaanyways....
well, i think more mass-goers would definitely be lost if there was a liberal pope than another conservative one, no?
i get the feeling the church has its eternal place as the antithesis of all things modern and liberal..
not that thats necessarily a bad thing, everything in balance i guess, papa ratzi will keep up that balance if nohing else.

smiley_knees · 27-04-2005 11:28am

*blinks as I finally get the joke* Oh yeah. Haha, quite humourous

Anywayz, didn't he say in one of his first speeches that rock music was immoral. I don't think he'd say that if he listened to P.O.D or something tio that effect...

halenger · 27-04-2005 12:12pm

Ah but that's not rock, that's "Christian Rock".

Raphael · 27-04-2005 12:13pm

Didn't he also say something about a nation or a person who turns their back on god is inevitably doomed? Because that is damned bull****. Perhaps someone who turns their back on morality is doomed, but as a spiritual atheist I take huge offence to that. And he looks far too like Emperor Palpatine for my liking

Oh, and I didn't get the Sixtus IX for ages because I was thinking "Sitxus the Ninth"

halenger · 27-04-2005 12:16pm

Matthewthebig wrote:

Podge won't be too happy about this thread.

I'll live...with the changed title.

It's not really all that funny either but hey, whatever works for you (plural, who thought it was funny).

Chowburger · 27-04-2005 12:42pm

smiley_knees wrote:

Anywayz, didn't he say in one of his first speeches that rock music was immoral.

I heard he condemned it as 'an expression of basic human emotion' or something...

Crash · 27-04-2005 1:03pm

Hey, the gods rottweiler thing has been floating around for ages podge, and will be floating around for a long time i'd say - depending on how he acts

Undergod · 27-04-2005 3:51pm

Doesn't he have an environmental agenda? A tree hugging pope, how legend is that?

HeyYou · 27-04-2005 4:40pm

Yeah, why did my title get changed? It's not being disrespectful, and why would anyone care if it was? Another funny Pope name is Papa Jo (Papa as in Pope, and Jo as in Joseph, geddit?), I'm going to stick to that from now on.

Here's another question: should the Pope be elected by the laity and not by conclave?

LiamD · 27-04-2005 5:11pm

I think we should all get to vote on the new pope.This guy seems way harsh much like the last one.

J Campion · 27-04-2005 5:33pm

I think we should all get to vote on the new pope.

The logistics of this alone are insane. Also how would you prove you're a Catholic, collect candles or sumthing? The cardinals represent the Catholic laity (albeit the Catholic laity of 40 years ago in most cases) therefore they are using their better judgement to elect the person who they think will best serve the people. Also isn't like the Holy Spirit supposed to guide the Cardinals or something?

This guy seems way harsh much like the last one.

It's not a popularity contest, the Pope is supposed to guide the Church in the way he sees fit and the way which has been laid down in the Church's laws etc. Granted, some of the opinions he has expressed have seemed a conservative, but he's entitled to his opinion and people can choose to follow his "guidance" or not.

The Pope's job description doesn't include remaining as popular as possible but does include preserving the core teachings/belief system of his church.

Not all of these are completely my own opinions, I just think we shouldn't jump to slam the Cathloic Church simply for refusing to modernise and liberalise.

Crash · 27-04-2005 10:15pm

The Pope's job description doesn't include remaining as popular as possible but does include preserving the core teachings/belief system of his church.

well technically, it does. seeing as fewer RC laymen means things not as good for church :P

Bazookatone · 28-04-2005 11:39am

Raphael wrote:

he looks far too like Emperor Palpatine for my liking

Did you see "Thunderball"? (one of the good, connery, Bond films). Remember the bad guy in that, the one with the eye patch? Now, imagine if Pope Benedict had an eyepatch, ok, now am I the only one who thinks "Yikes!!!!"

Spraypaint · 28-04-2005 7:18pm

Whoever the Pope is I'm going to reserve judgement until he says or does anything or sets out some policy. Until then the jury is out.

HeyYou · 29-04-2005 7:46pm

That's a very Christian thing to do. But does anyone else just....not....like the guy? He's done some pretty horrible stuff over the years. His opinion on homosexuality is that all gays are sexual deviants, or perverts, or both. A lot of the the more conservative clergy take what he says as absolute truth too, he's done some serious damage already.

His sermon before conclave was a bit crazy too. Among the things he listed as dangerous were liberalism, free thought and homosexuality. He also said the following: "A dictatorship of relativism is established that recognizes nothing definite and leaves only one's own ego and one's own desires as the final measure" or, in common parlance: "We'll decide on your values and make your decisions for you, because if we leave you guys to do it you'll just do it wrong." I know the Pontiff is supposed to have a shepherding role, but this is just authoritarianism. Isn't it?

Barry Aldwell · 29-04-2005 11:20pm

About time they put a Gunner in charge.

mentalimplosion · 30-04-2005 10:12am

i'm not being the least bit homophobic when i say this but i think his opinions on homosexuality would be the least of my worries. if the pope says 'homosexuality is evil', like, what's gonna happen? i am far more concerned with his eventual statements on contraception, especially since the churh has such a stronghold on community life in many parts of sub saharan africa, and if he comes out saying the usual catholic ****e about condoms being the devil's work etc, then it's the impoverished peoples of sub saharan africa who are going to suffer.

Matthewthebig · 30-04-2005 10:21am

The thing is it all has to taken as a whole though, because as soon as the church says one thing leniant other things are more likely to occour.

I also think the problem is the fact that he is going back on JPII's statements about homosexuality. for example the church recognised gays and said god loves gays just not the gay act. Which is quite understandable as the churches teaching is that sex must be able to result in a child. Hence oral, anal masturbation etc etc are out.

I also agree with Ana because the problem in Africa is digustingly ****ed up. One way to laook at it though is that with such a high amount of AIDS there is the fact that everyone will probably die out and that will fix the problem. I don't mean that in a creul way its just the truth.

HeyYou · 30-04-2005 7:47pm

Eh, matthew? That only happens if all the people with AIDS keep to themselves entirely and no new infections occur.

Piste · 30-04-2005 9:33pm

If you go to www.truthforyouth.com and go to the part on homosexuality it says that people musn't hate gays as that is a sin but to hate them is also a sin.

rainbow kirby · 01-05-2005 12:49am

That site made me laugh.

Matthewthebig · 01-05-2005 9:19am

HeyYou wrote:

Eh, matthew? That only happens if all the people with AIDS keep to themselves entirely and no new infections occur.

But the amounts will increase until there AIDS is in the minority

Plunky · 01-05-2005 10:59am

Piste wrote:

If you go to www.truthforyouth.com and go to the part on homosexuality it says that people musn't hate gays as that is a sin but to hate them is also a sin.

Is that not the same thing twice?..
"Don't hate them - that's a sin"
"Hating them is a sin"
Or that just me?..

Crash · 01-05-2005 12:49pm

Matthewthebig wrote:

But the amounts will increase until there AIDS is in the minority

That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. seeing as one can be HIV positive for years and years and not develop AIDS, thats a completely false statement to make.

Piste · 01-05-2005 2:34pm

Whoopsies, that should have read ''people musn't hate gays as that is a sin but to support them is also a sin.''

StupidLikeAFox · 01-05-2005 2:44pm

how can the pope take some of the blame for the AIDS crisis for speaking out against contraception, when he is equally in support of abstinence altogether?

Raphael · 01-05-2005 2:51pm

Contraception is more fun than abstinence?

Piste · 01-05-2005 3:02pm

Complete abstinence is idealistic, contraception is not. if you tell people that they have two choices to not get HIV/AIDS: a)Not have sex or b)Have sex but with protection, what do you think they will do?

Barry Aldwell · 01-05-2005 3:02pm

Matthewthebig wrote:

I also agree with Ana because the problem in Africa is digustingly ****ed up.

Plenty of things in Africa are FUBAR. Oh well, ho hum, it's their culture, can't interfere, unless you're the UN, in which case you're probably doing more harm than good.

Piste · 01-05-2005 3:06pm

Au Contraire, a lot of things are ****ed in Africa at the moment as a result of famine which is a result of climate change which is a result of global warming and the like which is a result of release of certain gases into the atmosphere by richer countries. By cutting down on energy use, yes we can interfere. If people go about educating people in safe sex and all that Jazz it will help the AIDS crisis slow down.

is_that_so · 01-05-2005 3:12pm

This story is in today's Sunday Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1592856,00.html

which raises the very obvious question as stated in the article

Barry Aldwell · 01-05-2005 3:27pm

Piste wrote:

Au Contraire, a lot of things are ****ed in Africa at the moment as a result of famine

Try to solve this famine by giving them food and you end up with Mogadishu, 1993*. Local tinpot dictator starts stealing food supplies, attempts are made to stop him, and you end up with helicopters falling out of the sky and thousands of casualties (18 Americans KIA, 78 WIA, 1 MIA, along with over 500 Somalians dead and over 1000 wounded)

*For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, go watch Black Hawk Down, and actually pay attention to what they're saying. Even better, read the book

Unfortunately, many try to solve the third world problems of Africa with a first world solution. It's fine sitting in your chair saying "send them food, send them condoms, all will be fine then", but it's another getting it to them without having to shoot all the people you're supposedly trying to save, because it's the only thing they understand.

HeyYou · 01-05-2005 6:11pm

Matthew also forgot that AIDS is passed down for mmother to child, so the only way his thing could be true is if people with AIDS werent' allowed have kids and weren't allowed to sleep with anyone except other AIDS patients. Which won't happen.

Here's the thing though. The Catholic Church is a take-it-or-leave-it organisation. Nobody's forcing people to be members of it; if they don't like it, they can leave whenever they like. It's an organisation wiht doctrinal rules to protect, why should it have to pander to the will of the majority if it flies in the face of its teachings?

I'm not taking either side here (yet), just playing Devil's Advocate again.

Oisín Collins · 01-05-2005 6:43pm

As I heard in the UL Debating IV's, the Catholic church is concerned with the matter of saving souls. To them, using a condom is a sin, and is worse than dieing from AIDS contracted by unprotected sex.

"There is a thing, worse than AIDS, and that's called hell.
And there is a thing, better than using a condom, and that's called heaven"

Aren't IV's (Intervarsities) fun?

mentalimplosion · 01-05-2005 9:06pm

ColHol wrote:

how can the pope take some of the blame for the AIDS crisis for speaking out against contraception, when he is equally in support of abstinence altogether?

yes, abstinence is extremely idealistic and even though i am an utter idealist (at heart, anyway), abstinence isn't going to work, least of all in sub saharan africa. this goes beyond the church adapting to modern times blahblahblah, this is a question of culture and the ideas of sex and of family (separately, please, you bunch of sickos) in terms of the wider community.

StupidLikeAFox · 02-05-2005 2:31pm

True, but people are trying to say that theyre such great catholics for not using condoms, but if theyre such great catholics why dont they abstain?

Raphael · 02-05-2005 3:03pm

ColHol: People of what marital status?

HeyYou · 02-05-2005 4:45pm

Ois&#237 wrote: »

Aren't IV's (Intervarsities) fun?

Not in UL they're not! What were you doing there anyway? Come to Dublin if you want a real IV.

I just thought twas funny that when people disagree with the position of the Curch on something, they demand the Church changes to accomodate them against its own doctrine. Why not leave? Ian Paisley did

Oisín Collins · 02-05-2005 5:23pm

HeyYou wrote:

Not in UL they're not! What were you doing there anyway? Come to Dublin if you want a real IV.

I was debating, I'm in UL!!! And it WAS fun!

HeyYou wrote:

Why not leave? Ian Paisley did

I dont think I've ever heard a worse argument for leaving the Catholic Church!

Pope Benedict XVI (was...yeah)

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