Epiphone vs. Gibson, is it worth the extra cash???

eddie-fandangle

ive finally gotten up the courage to ask everyone what their real opinion of budget guitars are. i personally own a epiphone les paul standard and after fitting it with slash signature pickups i found that there isnt a huge difference in sound or playability compared to a gibson equivilent. What are your views(it can also include the fender/squire debate)

also, i dont want any gear nerds or brand whores to start spewing **** about top brands being better when you wouldnt dream of touching anything but the les paul custom that daddy bought you for being captain of the blackrock rugby club and never played the cheaper brands!!!!

Doctor J

There is a huge difference between cheapo and expensive guitars. Fact. Budget guitars are way better than they used to be but a good guitar doesn't come cheap. A cheap guitar is cheap because the materials used are cheap. Epiphones, from my experience of repairing them for friends, have dreadfully cheap electronics especially. The tuners are generally made from soft poo and they don't hold tune unless you're really, really nice to them. The body wood is often several chunks of discarded wood glued together.

I think if you spent some time with a good Gibson Les Paul Standard (QA these days seems a bit hit and miss, sadly) you wouldn't be asking this question.

Giblet

I just know one thing, my les paul will be here longer than me. I've seen a few Epiphones fall from grace in my time. Tragic.

eddie-fandangle

Doctor J wrote:

There is a huge difference between cheapo and expensive guitars. Fact. Budget guitars are way better than they used to be but a good guitar doesn't come cheap. A cheap guitar is cheap because the materials used are cheap. Epiphones, from my experience of repairing them for friends, have dreadfully cheap electronics especially. The tuners are generally made from soft poo and they don't hold tune unless you're really, really nice to them. The body wood is often several chunks of discarded wood glued together.

I think if you spent some time with a good Gibson Les Paul Standard (QA these days seems a bit hit and miss, sadly) you wouldn't be asking this question.

ok **** you buddy!!!! that comment might have had a tiny bit of truth if you travelled back in a time machine ten years ago. granted the electronics are of poorer quality but bits of wood glued together??? gimme a break. as for the tuners, i play with tens in standard, and i rarely have to tune after the initial tune up before i play. that has more to do with correctly changing and stretching your strings

Doctor J

Look man, if you can't have a discussion without resorting to being a cretin, I suggest you piss off. :mad:

feylya

Ah, ya have to laugh. People come looking for others opinions then they insult the people that try to help.

It wasn't me!

Epiphone get all the tag end wood Gibson don't use. Therfore, you do get some that are made of different pieces of wood glued together. Like it or not, that's the way it is. Also, the electronics are generally poor and crackly. try an Epiphone and a Gibson side by side and there's no real comparison. If there weren't such a difference I wouldn't be waiting on a Gibson at the moment.

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

Ah, ya have to laugh. People come looking for others opinions then they insult the people that try to help.

You'd hardly expect anything else when he already black-listed people who disagree with him from the start, insinuating rich parents, and never even playing. :rolleyes:

Nidge

what can one expect from a NEWB!!!

Only joking...i think. Well i think he basically came on only wanting to hear "Yes epiphones are better than the guitars that are 3 grand in the high street stores. No there is no difference between a guitar that costs €3000 and €300." There is no need to worry about the prices of guitars, i bought mine second hand from a guy who paid four times the price i paid for it, not a les paul though. I'd prefer a second hand good guitar to a brand new frankenstein. (pieces of wood glued together). Me reckons you need to know where to look...the buy and sell! ¬_¬

DamoRed

Well i'll start off by saying that I also have an Epiphone Les Paul Standard and I'm extremely happy with it. As for whether I'd be better off getting the Gibson equivalent, well I can only say that I wanted to play it and play it now. I'm only learning, so I don't know how much difference I'd be able to distinguish. If I'd been convinced by my friend to wait until I could buy the Gibson, I'd have been waiting about eight to nine months more. That's eight months of frustration which I wasn't willing to endure. It was a case of I want to play and learn NOW!

As for the quality of my instrument, which I've had since November, I've had no problems with it at all. The tuners are Grover rather than the stock pieces, which makes a big difference I reckon. I keep mine in it's case, never out open. It never gets any abuse, but rather I take care of it knowing how long it took me to get it. I don't think any less of it because' it's only an Epiphone'. It's MY Epiphone!

I really find it's very far off the mark to come here and ask "everyone what their real opinion of budget guitars" and then give abuse to someone who gives it. If an opinion doesn't agree with the one another person has, so what, it's only an opinion. Every one given is as valid as the next. If an agenda is set for whose opinion matters which excludes certain people, well then this is not the place for it or them!

I have made very little contribution to this forum, but have learned so much from it and its members, not least DoctorJ whose knowledge and experience with a multitude of guitars has to be worth noting. Other members have differing levels of knowledge and experience of different gear. They all have an opinion based on their experiences and that's all they can give.

If you don't like it, you know what you can do!


Damo

funk-you

[QUOTE=. as for the tuners, i play with tens in standard, and i rarely have to tune after the initial tune up before i play. [/QUOTE]

i own an epiphone sg thats been upgraded and a gibson SG standard and the difference is emmence believe me. id agree the epiphone tuning heads are ****, with the real thing when i take it outta the case 9 times out of 10 it'll still be perfectly in tune, its the exact same with the rickenbacker and the gretsch, the playability, feel and overall sound of the guitar is superior. that and the attention to detail on the gibson compared to epihone. i do own a lot of guitars and some budget, more not and to be honest a budget guitar is cool if you just play by yourself in your room but if you to get the sound you want you will need good equipment.(oh and my daddy paid for none of my guitars nor do i play rugby.)

Ancient1

eddie-fandangle wrote:

ive finally gotten up the courage to ask everyone what their real opinion of budget guitars are. i personally own a epiphone les paul standard and after fitting it with slash signature pickups i found that there isnt a huge difference in sound or playability compared to a gibson equivilent. What are your views(it can also include the fender/squire debate)

also, i dont want any gear nerds or brand whores to start spewing **** about top brands being better when you wouldnt dream of touching anything but the les paul custom that daddy bought you for being captain of the blackrock rugby club and never played the cheaper brands!!!!

I'm glad you finally got the courage to ask.

You are 19 years old. Nineteen.

Please.

If you want to participate on this forum, have normal discussions and learn from the other guys, we'll welcome you and talk to you and discuss things with you. But if you want to be a smart-ass, expect no mercy. That is all.

Oeneus

Come on! You own an Epiphone. So you know how bad they are! Why would you try and defend them?

feylya

TBH, I'd rather a high end Epiphone than a low end Gibson... But that's just me.

RicardoSmith

The biggest difference I find is the quality of the wood gives better tone and resonance through the body. Its more musical. If it didn't make a difference you could make a good sounding quitar out of anything. The electrics would also make a substantial difference. That said you can get a good cheap quitar and a bad expensive quitar. But the odds are stacked against it. Best quitar I ever owned was a George Lynch ESP. The tone out of that was staggering.

Besides there a whole load of other variables to consider. Maybe your amp, location, the quality of your ear, or even your playing skills aren't enough to show the difference. Personally I wouldn't be a fan of the build quality of a Gibson/Epiphone. Great sound though. You can hear a real Les Paul from a long way off. Its sound is so distinctive. A Epiphone usually isn't as distinctive. Its like a watered down version.

I find I tend to sound the same what ever I play, no matter what the amp, or guitar. Its all crap. But it sounds like my crap. Must be all the bad habits have come together to form my own style. :cool:

vox

I think the latest Epiphones are actually quite decent and can be upgraded to get closer to the real gibson tone. The quality, action etc can vary greatly.

Nidge

To what "damored" said, by all means getting ANY guitar and playing it for the 9 months is better than not playing the guitar and waiting 9 months, although that said i don't know whether you had another guitar in the first place.

I personally would prefer to have a lot of good guitars than to make any attempt to purchase "the be all and end all" of guitars. In my opinion this is a holy grail not possible to acquire. I think an ideal guitar for someone has to be matched by their contentment of their ability at the given time.

I'd much prefer to be a Great guitarist on a budget guitar, than a crap artist on a €10,000 les paul.

RicardoSmith

vox wrote:

I think the latest Epiphones are actually quite decent and can be upgraded to get closer to the real gibson tone. The quality, action etc can vary greatly.

True with all makes and all prices I guess.

bombidol

ive seen guitars that have been peiced together from different bits of wood too. just cause they are sanded down and painted on the outside doesnt mean they are solid on the inside

feylya

That's a Norlin. That's what Gibson were called for a period in the 70's.

dabhoys

eddie-fandangle wrote:

ive finally gotten up the courage to ask everyone what their real opinion of budget guitars are. i personally own a epiphone les paul standard and after fitting it with slash signature pickups i found that there isnt a huge difference in sound or playability compared to a gibson equivilent. What are your views(it can also include the fender/squire debate)

also, i dont want any gear nerds or brand whores to start spewing **** about top brands being better when you wouldnt dream of touching anything but the les paul custom that daddy bought you for being captain of the blackrock rugby club and never played the cheaper brands!!!!

There is a huge difference in the quality chief. The epiphones are good value for the money and hey I was glad to have mine when I did to play. But to say there is not much difference between the two is just plain ignorant. I'm not claiming gibson are the best guitars out there. Theres no such thing. But I can assure you there is a massive difference between an Epiphone Custom Les Paul and a Gbison Les Paul Custom. I know cuz I moved up from one to the other.

Lets be honest its like saying a Micra that looks like a Ferrari is going to be just as good as the real ferrari?

At the end of the day its all down to play what you like. But theres no point raising an argument that most people know the answer too...

Oeneus

I used to have a Slash Signature Epiphone. And I'll tell you this. It was definately not reliable enough for gigging.

crackly knobs, dodgy pickup switch, useless jack socket, don't even get me started on the machineheads.

By the end of it all, All electronics on it were changed.

Eventually I sold it to pay for my first PA system.

Johnny Storm

feylya wrote:

That's a Norlin. That's what Gibson were called for a period in the 70's.

Amazing photograph. Thanks for that, Feylya.
You prompted me to remember a lot of the really sh1te things about the seventies - shortages, strikes, inflation, crap products and services. Next time I am getting misty-eyed for the 70s I will whip out your photo for a blast of anti-nostalgia.

Do you know if that is supposed to be some kind of neck-through design or could they really just not be bothered?

Doctor J

No, it's a three piece maple cap, most of the body of Les Pauls are mahogony, though we can only speculate how many pieces that doggie is made up of. That sort of nonsense went on at Fender too (though it is amazing how many people pay top dollar for 70s Fenders these days. Old does not mean vintage

feylya

Maybe I should bury my Harley Benton for 50 years. Should be worth something by then.

Keyzer

I've been playing guitar for 12 years and in that time I have had the pleasure and pain of playing some really good and really crap guitars....

The Good
1. Gibson SG - This was a mates guitar and I nearly blew my load when I played this for the first time. The sound was perfect.

2. 1970 Fender Strat - Played this when recording a demo cos the guitar I had was a piece of crap. The sound was phenomenal.

3. Martin Acoustic - Played this in a guitar shop in London. The most amazing guitar I ever played. The sound was nothing more than perfect. They guy in the shop had to ask me to stop playing it.

The Bad
1. Epiphone ES335 - Another mate bought one of these cos he was in a band it was getting "serious". Paid £500, he was robbed in my opinion. It sounded like a ukelele.

2. My Guitar - Sadly I have never bought myself a really good guitar, so I still have my fender squier strat, which is a piece of crap although I can get a decent sound out of it. But if I got a "good" guitar in the morning I would throw my strat in the bin without hesistation.

3. Various - From going into music shops etc. the majority of the guitars, epiphone and squier, are crap. I'm sorry but they are.

Its like anything in life, you get what you pay for, and I have yet to see a top guitarist in a top band play an epiphone or squier etc. guitar (unless they were sponsored by the company) in a recording or live situation.

feylya

Keyzer wrote:

I have yet to see a top guitarist in a top band play an epiphone or squier etc. guitar (unless they were sponsored by the company) in a recording or live situation.

Billy Gibbons? John Lennon? Bought play or played Epiphone's live and in the studio.

Doctor J

Loads of people used Japanese Squiers during the 80s, just rebadged them as Fenders (which Fender themselves did at one point and sold the Squier as Fenders).

Eoin Madsen

Those were original Epiphones, Fey, not "Epiphone by Gibson, for all your low budget needs".

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

Billy Gibbons? John Lennon? Bought play or played Epiphone's live and in the studio.

Righto... Hardly the finest guitarists of all time....
I will amend my original comment....

The vast majority of professional musicians dont play epiphones or squiers....

feylya

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Those were original Epiphones, Fey, not "Epiphone by Gibson, for all your low budget needs".

Pfft, details. Billy Gibbons still uses Epiphone's afaik...

keyser wrote:

Righto... Hardly the finest guitarists of all time....
I will amend my original comment....

The vast majority of professional musicians dont play epiphones or squiers....

I'd rate Lennon quite highly tbh. And Billy Gibbons isn't half bad either. Definately better than some of the guitarists now a days with their signature guitars. Good Charlotte, I'm looking at you!

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

Pfft, details. Billy Gibbons still uses Epiphone's afaik...



I'd rate Lennon quite highly tbh. And Billy Gibbons isn't half bad either. Definately better than some of the guitarists now a days with their signature guitars. Good Charlotte, I'm looking at you!

Anyroads, were not debating guitarists, thats in another thread somewhere...
Guitars are the subject...

Pusshead

I think playing on cheap guitars is good practice for that time you can afford a truely great instrument. I own various mid-range guitars. Ibanez RG470 and Jackson Kelly. Great instruments...playability is savage but the mechanics ( specially on the kelly) leave a lot to be desired.
The only way IMO one can solve all problems is by slowly piecing together a custom guitar. Find your fav neck, frets, bridge, pick-ups, strings, body shape etc etc...
The only problem with that approach is you'll probably end up with a very odd looking instrument. Really depends what you're after... tone? look? both? Personally, i'm only concerned about the sound.

Of course, if you can afford several High quality guitars...then you're sorted!

In the end, real tone is created with your fingers, not the instrument... how you make the strings vibrate, the picking angle etc etc... the determination you put into playing guitar.

Doctor J

Keyzer wrote:

Righto... Hardly the finest guitarists of all time....
I will amend my original comment....

The vast majority of professional musicians dont play epiphones or squiers....

The vast majority of professional musicians do not play PRS... does that make them shyte? The vast majority of professional musicians do not play Patrick Eggle. The vast majority of professional musicians do not play G&L... you can see where this is going, yes?

Oh, I'd say Billy Gibbons is one of the finest blues players out there, definitely.

Nidge

Oasis and the Libertines and i think Interpol and many other bands use Epiphones. That's not to say that these bands have particularly good guitarists, but when it comes down to it, and they have to choose their guitars for stadium gigs they use their epiphones, and obviously it's got absolutely nothing to do with money.

Keyzer

Doctor J wrote:

The vast majority of professional musicians do not play PRS... does that make them shyte? The vast majority of professional musicians do not play Patrick Eggle. The vast majority of professional musicians do not play G&L... you can see where this is going, yes?

Listen, cut the attitude, its a discussion about guitars so I don't know why your getting so annoyed.

I said that the vast majority of guitarists don't use epiphones or squiers, I didn't say that that majority use only Gibsons and Fenders. Of course there are other manufacturers out there i.e Gretsch etc.

Epiphones and squiers are good for beginners and people farting around in bands. Professional musicians, given the choice, would not use these brands.

Oh, I'd say Billy Gibbons is one of the finest blues players out there, definitely.

This I find this statement very very hard to believe.
Blues is my preferred music. In all the articles I have read or people I have spoken to about blues players, Billy Gibbons has never been mentioned as "one of the finest blues players out there". Though I know him from ZZ Top, I have never heard of him in regards blues playing...

feylya

Keyzer wrote:

Professional musicians, given the choice, would not use these brands.

But we've already proved you wrong on this point, by listing a few professional musicians (some of which are quite wealthy) that use Epiphones.

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

But we've already proved you wrong on this point, by listing a few professional musicians (some of which are quite wealthy) that use Epiphones.

Jesus, I said majority, not all....
Yes there are people who play epiphones, I don't disagree.

Doctor J

Keyzer wrote:

Listen, cut the attitude, its a discussion about guitars so I don't know why your getting so annoyed.

I said that the vast majority of guitarists don't use epiphones or squiers, I didn't say that that majority use only Gibsons and Fenders. Of course there are other manufacturers out there i.e Gretsch etc.

Epiphones and squiers are good for beginners and people farting around in bands. Professional musicians, given the choice, would not use these brands.

This I find this statement very very hard to believe.
Blues is my preferred music. In all the articles I have read or people I have spoken to about blues players, Billy Gibbons has never been mentioned as "one of the finest blues players out there". Though I know him from ZZ Top, I have never heard of him in regards blues playing...

Sorry man, I'm not getting annoyed, perhaps I should have put or ?

Just making a point, there are plenty of "professional" musicians using Epis and Squiers (especially Japanese 80's Squiers which, as I said, at one point Fender rebadged and sold as Fenders) and the amount of people using instruments is no guide to quality. In fact, you'll find a lot of studios have Epis and Squiers as "house" instruments so you'd be very surprised at how many end up on albums.

As for Billy Gibbons, I suggest you dig up a copy of Rhythmeen, he is one of the greats... very definitley.

Oh, :cool:

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

But we've already proved you wrong on this point, by listing a few professional musicians (some of which are quite wealthy) that use Epiphones.

Jesus, I said majority, not all....
Yes, there are musicians who play epiphones, I don't disagree.

Answer me this (hypothetically speaking of course) -

You have a choice of 2 guitars....
A Gibson SG or a Epiphone SG for free, you don't have to pay for either, no strings (pardon the pun)... Which would you pick?
I would bet my entire life savings that 99% of people who knew anything about guitars would choose the Gibson.
IMO if you chose the epiphone over the Gibson then you haven't a clue...

Doctor J

Keyzer wrote:

Jesus, I said majority, not all....
Yes, there are musicians who play epiphones, I don't disagree.

Answer me this (hypothetically speaking of course) -

You have a choice of 2 guitars....
A Gibson SG or a Epiphone SG for free, you don't have to pay for either, no strings (pardon the pun)... Which would you pick?
I would bet my entire life savings that 99% of people who knew anything about guitars would choose the Gibson.
IMO if you chose the epiphone over the Gibson then you haven't a clue...

I would play them both before deciding. Anyone who doesn't hasn't a clue IMO

Keyzer

Doctor J wrote:

I would play them both before deciding. Anyone who doesn't hasn't a clue IMO

Fair enough, but having played the Gibson, thats if you have never played a Gibson before, I guarantee you wouldn't use the Epiphone...
The difference between both guitars is huge.

Now don't get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with having en epiphone, Its not like I would mock someone for having one, but given the choice, I would choose Gibson over Epiphone without even playing the Epiphone, every time.

RicardoSmith

Keyzer wrote:

....I find this statement very very hard to believe.
Blues is my preferred music. In all the articles I have read or people I have spoken to about blues players, Billy Gibbons has never been mentioned as "one of the finest blues players out there". Though I know him from ZZ Top, I have never heard of him in regards blues playing...

You have got to be kidding me...

Check out the video of ZZ Top playing Tush (Live) on Winamp.com.
Its from the crossroads concert.
http://www.zrock.com/zforum/post-1448.html
http://www.guitar9.com/crossroadsfestivaldvd.html

RicardoSmith

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Those were original Epiphones, Fey, not "Epiphone by Gibson, for all your low budget needs".

True the older Epiphone are higher quality quitars compared to the budget brand they are today. Most brands quality varies widely over the years.

Besides most professional musicans do not buy quitars off the peg.

feylya

Let me put this to you.

An Epiphone Ebony Custom, about €500. Absolutely gorgeous guitar to play, lovely clear pickups, decent enough electronics, feels solid.

A Gibson Faded LP, about €1000. Horrible guitar. Neck feels horrible, pickups made of mud, electronics seem ok but it just doesn't feel great.

Now, which would you choose? I know what one I'd pick!

Doctor J

Please Keyzer, do thyself a favour here

Doctor J

Indeed, what Fey said, Gibson went through a time of absolutely abysmal build quality and the general feeling is that current build quality is hit and miss, it lacks consistency. I've played really good Epiphones, I've played shyt Gibsons, I've also played amazing Gibsons and shyte Epis. Take it on a guitar by guitar basis. Generally we all would expect the Gibsons to be better but one of the finest basses I've ever played is a mid 80's Japanese Fender Jazz clone, it beats the pants of every other Fender Jazz I've played.

mayordenis

feylya wrote:

An Epiphone Ebony Custom, about €500. Absolutely gorgeous guitar to play, lovely clear pickups, decent enough electronics, feels solid.

A Gibson Faded LP, about €1000. Horrible guitar. Neck feels horrible, pickups made of mud, electronics seem ok but it just doesn't feel great.

Here here!!

That post was on the money feylya.
I've played gobson SG's(low end) that i wouldnt even snot on.
People should really go for each guitar on its on merits.

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

Let me put this to you.

An Epiphone Ebony Custom, about €500. Absolutely gorgeous guitar to play, lovely clear pickups, decent enough electronics, feels solid.

A Gibson Faded LP, about €1000. Horrible guitar. Neck feels horrible, pickups made of mud, electronics seem ok but it just doesn't feel great.

Now, which would you choose? I know what one I'd pick!

Thats your opinion mate...
I haven't played a Gibson Faded LP or an Epiphone Ebony Custom.
I have played a Gibson SG and a 1956 Gibson LP Goldtop, and both were a pleasure to play and heartbraking to put down.

I'm gonna break both your hearts and give you my opinion on this Billy Gibbons fella. Although he is a competent player, I've heard it before, performed and played better by other guitarists. Not an all time great IMO.
If you wanna hear someone playing slide guitar the way it should be played, check out Duane Allman, he puts that fella to shame.

Anyway, I suppose this all boils down to personal taste...
Take your Epiphone over a Gibson if you want to, at the end of the day I really don't care.

feylya

Keyzer wrote:

at the end of the day I really don't care.

Priceless.

Keyzer

feylya wrote:

Priceless.

Whats so priceless?