International recognition of degrees

sci0x

What are the differences in the courses of doing pharmacy in UCC and doing it in Trinity?

DrIndy

They are both professionally accredited by the Pharmacy Society, so like medicine, you get an identically recognised degree. Trinity is the original and most established school of pharmacy.

It comes down to personal preference, we on this board would of course give Trinners for Winners as its a cool college. Look at the differences in other college aspects like clubs and societies and location........ then decide....

Kevin_rc_ie

You actually interested in applying for either? Or looking for advice for a friend? I'd encourage someone applying to go to the area that suits them best. Like if you live in commuting distance of cork, put cork as ur preference.

sci0x

Yeah id prefer to go to Cork as i live in Kerry but id like to know what exactly are the differences within the two courses

Kevin_rc_ie

Ok, I don't actually know the ans to ur query so i'll stop spamming soon, but I think indy stated the bottom line, at the end of the day they're both the same. AFAIK no one from pharmacy posts on this board.....we'll see

DrIndy

Professionally accredited degree = identical standard. Any Pharmacy degree in Ireland must be of a set standard following a specified (but not prescriptive *excuse pun*) set of guidelines issued by the Irish Pharmacy Society for you to be registered with them to work professionally in Ireland as a pharmacist.

There may be subtle differences in the course structure and the exams, but that will be all. There may be differences in the status of both degrees (Trinity is better recognised internationally so it may be an advantage if you want to work overseas).

The bottom line is all the other things that go with college life........

Kevin_rc_ie

I was led to beleive that Ireland is one of the best places to have a pharmacy degree and to work as a Boots/McNamara type over the counter pharmacist. Seeing the monopoly they have on non-prescription drugs etc. Well, it was a monopoly. Also the mark up.... For a 4 year degree, 1 year "training", and the money you get, I reckon pharmacy would be up there as one of the best courses to do if you wanted to make loads of money.

Yeah doctors earn a sh!t load in a lot of cases after a while, but they also have some kind of responsiblilty and pressure and stress. The pharmacist just has to learn to read prescriptions, ask girls if they're on the pill when giving them an antiobiotic and hey presto that's it.

Does anyone disagree? Is a pharmacist a glorified and highly paid sweet shop merchant?

DrIndy

yes and no......

Lets convince sci0x to go to Trinity! Trinner Kicks Ass! List all the pros of going here and we will convince him yet its the best choice!

Kevin_rc_ie

Accesible to every type of entertainment Ireland offers.

Agent Smith

bess girls to snort coke off.....

The Shol'va

Tourists to make fun of...

lomb

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Does anyone disagree? Is a pharmacist a glorified and highly paid sweet shop merchant?

in india i believe anyone can be a pharmacist. u have to 'buy' a license for a few quid first though.

pseudonym

agent smith wrote:

bess girls to snort coke off.....

that seems to be a recurring theme....

ApeXaviour

It's smith's phrase of the day

Pet

Whereabouts in Kerry do you live? Even if you live near the Cork border you're looking at a long commute and expensive bus fares unless you move to on-campus accommodation. But you'd still be close enough to go home at the weekends to do the washing and such..

Being from kerry, if you apply to Trinity you'd be a shoe-in for campus accommodation as well, and I'd imagine there's a better campus life here due to a bigger student body. I'd also say that the college life in general is better here for the same reason.

So you gotta weigh it up yourself, it's all a matter of convenience.

pseudonym

theres also these mad kerry prizes things if u do well in the leaving cert.
some people i know got laptops, and free commons (dinner) for 2 years, and u get it for longer if u get a 2.2 or above in the schol exams at the end of 2nd year.
Apparently.
Im not from Kerry though, so im not sure on the exact details of that, or how many are given out.

Pet

pseudonym wrote:

theres also these mad kerry prizes things if u do well in the leaving cert.
some people i know got laptops, and free commons (dinner) for 2 years, and u get it for longer if u get a 2.2 or above in the schol exams at the end of 2nd year.
Apparently.
Im not from Kerry though, so im not sure on the exact details of that, or how many are given out.

Argh, I was kicking myself when I found out about it a few weeks ago, I could have gotten that! Why, oh why didn't I read that fresher's manual thingy that came in the pack!

ApeXaviour

I was under the impression he was joking.


Evidently not..

pseudonym

not everything i say is a complete fabrication, just most of it.

Pet

ApeXaviour wrote:

I was under the impression he was joking.


Evidently not..

Nope, it's in one of my booklets. Something like ~€3000 and commons I think.

Kevin_rc_ie

How does the RCSI medicine degree rate internationally?

DrIndy

compared to trinner and those in the know, not as highly...... imo

RCSI is one big trademark and they certainly churn out more overseas students than we do.

In the end, however an accredited medicine degree is just that (medical council maintains minimum standards) and the college is less important than for other degrees such as Arts.....

However in Trinner, we don't get carted all over the country for our placements as we have huge capacity in our teaching hospitals....

ApeXaviour

wtf? talk about random..

thread split

EDIT:
Merged with pharmacy thread and name changed to international recognition of degrees, cos that's sorta what the first post is about and where this questioning came from

DrIndy

Kevin_rc_ie

How about the BESS thing? Does it get ooohs and ahhhs in the USA or UK?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

in the UK, the big london banks and consultants love the bess thing. but, like with any undergrad these days, you have to have a masters on top of it...

ISAW

Roundtower2 wrote:

in the UK, the big london banks and consultants love the bess thing. but, like with any undergrad these days, you have to have a masters on top of it...

College will no doubt be implementing changes to do with the Bologna Declaration. My reservations are that levels 8 9 and 10 arent really fairly rated.

Do you think an MA (in Trinity) required the work an (M Phil M Litt or MSc) did?

Do you think the PhD is the same as a ScD?

Anyway the idea is that europe wide they all fit into a 1- 10 scale.

ApeXaviour

ISAW wrote:

Do you think the PhD is the same as a ScD?

Explain?

DrIndy

No, no and no.....

You go from BSc to PhD and then ScD

Or BA to DPhill to DA.

A DSc is only award to those who have had a PhD for more than 3 years standing. They must produce such an outstanding work of research that they are chosen by their peers to receive this very prestigious Doctor in Science.

TCD had a habit of throwing them out like there was no tomorrow to academic staff, but now they have implemented and extensive review process with external examiners to further increase the status of the award.

To the best of my knowledge, a DSc does not even exist in the bologna system as you are not a student and there is nothing to study for apart from outstanding research in your field. All people who receive this have researcher jobs.

ISAW

ApeXaviour wrote:

Explain?

Go to any library desk and look at part II of the Calendar.
True there was a rehash of the procedure but still a PhD EdD Dphil DSc are all at the same level 10.

Similarly an MA MSc MPhil MLitt are all at the same level - 9

Now are they all the same?

I think not. Look at what is required for them in each course.

As regards the PhD - it is level 10 but is it the same as an MD - where we came into this? And what about the new DEd - it is not a fully research PhD but is it about the same as a PhD? I would think so . Others might not.

then you have the masters of dental whatemits for Md's what about them?

ApeXaviour

ISAW wrote:

Go to any library desk and look at part II of the Calendar.

Nah..

DrIndy

As regards the PhD - it is level 10 but is it the same as an MD - where we came into this? And what about the new DEd - it is not a fully research PhD but is it about the same as a PhD? I would think so . Others might not.

Yes an MD is of the same standing as a PhD. MD or Doctor in Medicine, along with DCh (Doctor in Surgery) and DAO (Doctor in Obstetrics). All are clinical research degrees as opposed to a PhD involving lab research.

DSc is way above grade 10 - its not something you study for.

ISAW

DrIndy wrote:

Yes an MD is of the same standing as a PhD. MD or Doctor in Medicine, along with DCh (Doctor in Surgery) and DAO (Doctor in Obstetrics). All are clinical research degrees as opposed to a PhD involving lab research.

DSc is way above grade 10 - its not something you study for.

I would suggest ALL degrees (except honory ones and the other freebieswhat about the MA?) are someting you study for.


Do you perhaps mean do exams for? Then many of the higher degrees may not apply since you may only write papers for them. You certainly have to publish something if only an exam answer. Maybe that is the thing in common.

Higher doctorates -A D Phil D Litt etc. and the "humble" PhD can ALL be awarded by submitting published research and doing no exam or possibly no viva voce.

I think the PhD originated as a split from the DD?

How about a D Indy? Is it something you study for?

Kevin_rc_ie

Go to any library desk and look at part II of the Calendar.

No. You tell us.

ISAW

ISAW wrote:

Go to any library desk and look at part II of the Calendar.

http://www.tcd.ie/Secretary/College_Calendar/

It turns out the internet is on computers these days.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

ISAW wrote:

Do you think an MA (in Trinity) required the work an (M Phil M Litt or MSc) did?

- actually really disappointing to see how stupid employers can be sometimes. In business, for example, they treat the crappy (IMHO) smurfit masters as the same as the trinity business masters. even though the smurfit masters is little more than a third/fourth year of a bess degree here, and the business masters in tcd is two years long (versus one year in smurfit). employers don't seem to be in the slightest bit bothered about this, and seem to actually look for the smurfit masters... So, from a career perspective the smurfit MSc would seem to be the way forward...

ISAW

Roundtower2 wrote:

- actually really disappointing to see how stupid employers can be sometimes. In business, for example, they treat the crappy (IMHO) smurfit masters as the same as the trinity business masters. even though the smurfit masters is little more than a third/fourth year of a bess degree here, and the business masters in tcd is two years long (versus one year in smurfit). employers don't seem to be in the slightest bit bothered about this, and seem to actually look for the smurfit masters... So, from a career perspective the smurfit MSc would seem to be the way forward...

isnt it an MBA?

angeldelight

sci0x wrote:

What are the differences in the courses of doing pharmacy in UCC and doing it in Trinity?

I'm not sure, but you do know they do Pharmacy in RCSI? As stated before, all the pharmacy courses have to have a minimum accreditation. However, a few of the people in my class when trying to choose where to apply to spoke to practicing pharmacists and the general consensus is RCSI, then UCC then TCD and no I'm not just saying that cause I'm in surgeons. I've spoken to a few pharmacists while organising summer work and they all said the same, before they knew where I was going to college so it seems to be the general opinion. I think the reason is that Cork and RCSI are such new courses,they're a lot more technology focused. Also, in RCSI we don't have to do a general grounding in physics chemistry and biology for first year so we start immediately into pharmacy-related subjects. In first year we had anatomy (we're the only pharmacy course who do anatomy, which is helpful if you're interested in hosp pharmacy and might eventually be doing ward rounds), biochemistry, pharmaceutical chemistry, microbiology, pharmaceutics, pharmacy practice, physics, physiology statistics. We only had about 6 physics lectures so it didn't seem like we were doing something irrelevant. We also don't have to do maths as a full subject, which according to the Pharmaceutical Soc of Ireland (the regulatory body for pharmacists) isn't needed. We do stats which is all we need to interpret clinical trials results etc. So RCSI pharmacy students have a less full timetable as we're not doing unnecessary subjects. Also RCSI has a smaller class size, so we get to know the other Pharmacy years, theres quite a lot of events organised during the year, a much better social side to it than I thought there was going to be for such a small college. Also the new school of pharmacy building only opened this year so the labs are brand new and gorgeous! And we all get laptops which is great, all our notes go up on the college intranet before the lecture and we can print them off, take them in with us and then only have to take note of anything extra the lecturer says which I find good. Basically it's a lovely course and a lovely atmosphere in the college, everyone looks out for everyone else, there's no theft or anything. I'd seriously recommend it I love it, but be prepared for very very hard work!

John

angeldelight wrote:

there's no theft or anything

What are you implying about TCD?

Mr.Nice Guy

Do your degree in UCD. Perhaps you can do a project on why the girls in UCD have an eerie orange tan even when it's the middle of winter...

punka

DrIndy wrote:

Or BA to DPhill to DA.

Does Trinity award the DPhil? I was under the impression that it's what you get instead of a PhD at Oxford, but it amounts to the same thing....

angeldelight

John2 wrote:

What are you implying about TCD?

Nothing really, that's just something that a friend in my class pointed out as being nice and she's a trinity graduate so I thought I'd mention it

John

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Do your degree in UCD. Perhaps you can do a project on why the girls in UCD have an eerie orange tan even when it's the middle of winter...

That would be all well and good if UCD actually had a pharmacy degree

rainbow kirby

It's about the only thing we don't have.

Kevin_rc_ie

Denistry

DrIndy

punka wrote:

Does Trinity award the DPhil? I was under the impression that it's what you get instead of a PhD at Oxford, but it amounts to the same thing....

Trinity degree = Oxford Degree

If you were traitorous to our venerable college - you can actually apply for an oxford degree once you have received your parchment from trinity.

There is a clause in the college calendar that upon paying the registration fee in oxford, you can transfer your trinity one for an oxford one.

Regarding RCSI - I have issues with a college which is run as a business. I believe this reduces the primacy of education and research in favour of pure income generation.

RCSI syndicates its medical school and has opened a medical school in Bahrain and plans to also open one in africa. Although laudable, it is purely an income generation proposal.

punka

DrIndy wrote:

Trinity degree = Oxford Degree

If you were traitorous to our venerable college - you can actually apply for an oxford degree once you have received your parchment from trinity.

There is a clause in the college calendar that upon paying the registration fee in oxford, you can transfer your trinity one for an oxford one.

Didn't know that. But I know if you spend a term at Oxford your degree becomes MA (Dub, Oxon), and it works the other way round for Oxford students.

My point was that the DPhil is basically equivalent to the PhD but it's awarded instead of it by Oxford and 1 or 2 other universities.

Running Bing

DrIndy wrote:

Trinity degree = Oxford Degree

If you were traitorous to our venerable college - you can actually apply for an oxford degree once you have received your parchment from trinity.

There is a clause in the college calendar that upon paying the registration fee in oxford, you can transfer your trinity one for an oxford one.

Does that mean that someone with a degree from trinity would have a good chance of being accepted by Oxford for postgraduate study?

Pet

If you were traitorous to our venerable college - you can actually apply for an oxford degree once you have received your parchment from trinity.

Do you mean that anyone, once they've received their BA in whatever, can apply to Oxford and say "Listen, I want this to say OXFORD rather than Trinity"? Or do you mean something completely different?

memeryd

The only one I heard of was that if you did research or worked within the area in which your primary degree (from Trinity) was you could buy a pass MA from Trinity after about 3 years. Never heard about the Oxford thing for any degree.

As for will having a degree from Trinity helping you get into a postgrad in Oxford, really they only assess the quality and grade of your degree to determine if you get into any postgrad, although one could argue that a degree from TCD is considered of a higher quality and hence will help you.

And before anyone decides to point it out I know a TCD degree is actually awarded by the University of Dublin, of which Trinity is a constituent college, rather that TCD but it is just easier to say.

Kevin_rc_ie

but isn't the degree awarded by DU rather than TCD.

(hehehe)

DOes DU award DIT degrees too?