Home Schooling

iguana

Was reading an article today about home schooling* and am wondering if everyone else has an opinion on it. And what their experiences of school were.

I mostly hated school, I enjoyed the time I had with my friends, but I don't think it was the right learning environment for me. There were subjects that I loved such as science, but grew to hate due to uninspiring teachers. Most of the stuff I learned was by myself or with my family.

I enjoyed the 1st few years of school, but mainly because I was always best in the class. I was classified with adult literacy and math ability at 6/7. So I always did really well without trying, my teacher in 1st class was fantastic, he moved me and another boy along much faster than the rest of the class. (He was also very involved in establishing special needs classes and helping identify learning disabilities). That was great but the next year my parents moved house and I changed schools. There I ended up with a teacher who seemed to resent the fact that I wasn't trying but still got full marks at everything. She ended up being quite abusive toward me until my parents intervened.

I think that was where I started hating school, I was intensely bored, and rarely challenged or interested. I was also very rebellious and would openly disagree with teachers opinions, which was fine with the more progressive teachers who welcomed debate. But for the most part it was construed as insolence. Occasionally teachers would ask questions of the class and when I would try to answer, they would ask if anyone else could answer instead. I can see why they did this but it was hardly fair to penalise me.

Schools obviously can't cater to each child individually, but some teachers are just bad and lazy. In fact there seem to be 9 bad teachers to every good one. I don't have kids yet but when I do I'd hate to send them into that environment.

In Limerick where I come from there is a project school which has a terrific reputation, but I don't think there are enough of these. I hope to be in a financial situation where I can afford to not work when I have children and I would definetely consider teaching my children myself if that's what they wanted.

*http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,1459735,00.html

magpie

You mean 'Home Skooling'?

josh40

Kids learn more from each other than from teachers. At school they learn how to socialise and mix with all kinds of other people. Kids do not get one on one treatment at school, teachers are not always fair, that's exactly why you should send your children to school. Nothing prepares them for life half as well!.

Mothman

josh40 wrote:

Kids learn more from each other than from teachers.

Agreed

josh40 wrote:

At school they learn how to socialise and mix with all kinds of other people.

I fail to see how being in a class of 20-30 other kids of the same age teaches them to socialise and mix with all kinds of other people. Practically no socialising happens while in class.

josh40 wrote:

Kids do not get one on one treatment at school, teachers are not always fair, that's exactly why you should send your children to school. Nothing prepares them for life half as well!.

Home educating isn't just about teaching the curriculum at home. Part of it is living out life by partaking in whatever the family are doing. So while most kids are in school, the ones not in school are learning about life the hands on way.

padser

You can only home school kids so far. At what point do you put them into the education system? For example you will not be able to teach them the full range of secondary subjects and if they are bright presumably at some point they will want to go to university.

My point is that when this happens they will be swamped and find it very difficult to cope with the change from one on one attention to being in a class of 30 or a lecture hall of 300.

Also id have to agree that even if they can cope intelectualy, socially their growth will have been stunted.

astec123

I have been schooled in a class of thirty, still a very shy type person, but without socilal interaction of school I would never go out. I beleive that home schooling would be a no no completely as they would not get the same level of socialising. In a home situation they see no other faces so will be hard to keep up with things and real people. I would also agree with learning most things from friends, as lunch breaks people complain about Mr/Mrs/Ms whoever and they discuss things about the class and what was learnt, may be indirect but thats a good thing as its not so obvious to them, also remember that teachers are biased and are under pressure to make grades out of students, the students will be persecuted to proform so that they dont get the sack, personally I feel that grades that a class gets should not matter, a student will do as best as they are willing to work for no better and being cruel etc will have no end result and if there is any it will only serve to be a minor one and not worth the persecution the suffered.

padser

astec123 wrote:

students will be persecuted to proform so that they (teachers) dont get the sack, .

teachers cant get sacked in this country (unless convicted criminal eg sexual assault or phyisical assault).

iguana

As for social interaction. When I was a kid I attended the brownies, a drama class, a martial arts class, gymnastics, irish dancing and I played soccer. In addition to school, so obviously I didn't do all of these at once. But I had social interaction in all these groups. I also played with the other kids in my area, not all of which attended the same school.

There are home-schooling networks in the UK where different parents meet up with each other with their kids in order to arrange educational trips, like a school tour.

Education wise; I have heard of parents who hire tutors to help older children with complicated subjects they aren't as familiar with, such as science, if the child wants to learn them. And exams can be sat without having to attend a school.

In the UK there are universities that will make addmitance allowances for home-educated. And there are other options in life other than a college education.

Yavvy

There are home schooling co-ops in ireland too and government certified tests. There is no reason why home schooling cant be a social and educating experiance for a child. The most important part of this is a comitted parent. My wife and I have spoken about this and tried to weigh up the pros and cons, im still slightly infavour of school ( private if possible) but my Wife is more in favour of home schooling. we are a few years out yet so havent come to a decision.

On a personal note Secondary school seriously damaged me - I got mixed up in all sorts of bad things that provided no real value to me in later life , I learned very little and did most of my learning when I left school at 16 for an engineering apprenticeship.

I like the idea of a home school network with maybe 10-15 Children and rotating parents as teachers - maybe 3 per class. I would also give me the oppertunity to offer real world life lessons to kids, Things you dont usually learn from school books. Things about technology(from a non technology perspective) , Corporate politics, Entrepreneurship thats sort of thing.

Also I think often Schools teach children how to get just enough knowledge to performe in a job. there is a lot more to be learned.

irishafrican

Been looking at home-schooling myself for my 3 kids and I must say I am veering very strongly towards it. Besides excessive bullying in schools, controversial trends and ignorant teachers, you can better manage your childs education and gear things towards their personal abilities. After all who would know them better than you, the parent. I think those that are against it are just fearful of going 'out the box' so to speak.
I wish I had been home-schooled

metrovelvet

I think if you have kids who are outside of the average scale, homeschooling is the way to go.

They can learn to socialise and mix in outside school activities.

No point teaching them to hate education and bore them to death.

irishafrican

I totally agree! I have one gifted child and 2 with mild learning disabilities and sadly none of their needs are being addressed. I think with home-schooling you can address these needs as well as build their confidence to allow them to educate themselves further in the future! And the added bonus of spending time with them.

up for anything

padser wrote: »

You can only home school kids so far. At what point do you put them into the education system? For example you will not be able to teach them the full range of secondary subjects and if they are bright presumably at some point they will want to go to university.

My point is that when this happens they will be swamped and find it very difficult to cope with the change from one on one attention to being in a class of 30 or a lecture hall of 300.

Also id have to agree that even if they can cope intelectualy, socially their growth will have been stunted.

Links to studies proving these points please. :rolleyes:


I don't home school but my sister does. I had some of the same attitudes as Padser does when she began, seventeen years ago, but now I can see the benefits of it.

Lots of home schooled children go on to 3rd level education. Brightness is not a prerequisite for going on to university.

Yes, some of them do find it difficult to go from one-on-one attention to being in a large class but then again there are children who have had this problem from Junior Infants right through the school system. More of them slip seamlessly into the system.

As for having their social growth stunted!! Most home schooled children have a far wider social network of friends, both home educated and school educated, and activities. One of the main things I have noticed when meeting home educated children is that their social skills and confidence levels are far higher than most school educated children. They also tend not to tolerate the things which school educated children have to in order to survive in a school environment such as bullying, changing yourself in order to fit in and peer pressure.

I don't know why people still have that outdated view that home education consists of a parent sitting down with a child and teaching them from the curriculum and never leaving the home either for social engagements or 'extra-curriculur' activities.

This is a link to HEN (Home Education Network). You will find most of the members will be more than happy to discuss home education with you. The plus side of home education is that it is what you want it to be and that your children will take out of it what you have put into it - if that makes any sense.

Kimono-Girl

just wanted to say on the topic of going from a home schooled environment to university,

i attended mainstream schools, both were very small (100 pupils or less in my entire secondary school), and to this day in a university setting i still get panic attacks when attending lectures with a large amount of people, put me in town with 20,000 people around me and i'm fine, it only happens in an education environment.

the only thing i'd have reservations about with home schooling is the parents themselves, every parent is biased towards their child, and i have to wonder would this apply to home schooling even sub-consciously? i know i personally would think often enough she's ready to learn something, when she isn't, or that she's clever enough to do something when she's not, but as her parent i know she is the best in the world.

so i would imagine some (but obviously not all) wouldn't differentiate between 'mum' and 'teacher' i guess?

metrovelvet

If Iguana starts homeschooling I think she'd do a great job because her ideas on education are so terrific and she has been through a system that failed her so she would be in tune with the kids needs and development.

Moonbeam

Out of interest are any of the people home schooling qualified teachers?
Do you follow the national curriculum?

Ayla

I actually started a thread about this last month on the Preschool & Primary Education forum, and have linked some independent research on the outcomes of home-eductation.

We're home-edding our (almost) 4 yr old daughter & hope to continue it for as long as it works for all of us. So many advantages!

iguana

I just want to point out that I originally started this thread over five years ago.:D

cynder

I'm dead against home schooling, i have my reasons. (long story)

I cannot tell anyone how to raise their child, its their choice, be it right or wrong at the end of the day. I must say no one knows its the wrong choice until its too late.

I also think no child should be home schooled unless they are taught by a person with an teaching degree.

Ayla

Iguana - . I wasn't on boards then, but happy the thread's popped back up.

Grindelwad - You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. But teaching degrees don't always make good teachers, and vice versa. Proof is in the pudding, so they say.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

Iguana - . I=
Grindelwad - You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. But teaching degrees don't always make good teachers, and vice versa. Proof is in the pudding, so they say.

May be in your case! but not all puddings taste good.

Also don't most parents educate their 3 year olds, i know i do, he goes to preschool 3/4 days a week and comes home for more education, he goes to the early intervention educator, once a week has group education once a week he also has me backing up what they are teaching him all day long.

He also has a once a week appointment with the speech therapist who goes through loads of words in each session and i then back her up by doing it all day everyday while he isn't at preschool and when he is at pre school he has his personal pre school assistant backing up what the early intervention educator and the speech therapist do with him. busy busy busy. His not stupid, he just has issues.

But i don't class my self as his teacher even though i talk him about birds (nature) and trees and electricity (science) asking how many he has (maths) he helps me cook (home economics). It's grand when they are 4 what a about 14 when they are doing algorithms? or chemistry,biology, literature, trigonometry, religion (all), arts, history, and many many more....

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

May be in your case! but not all puddings taste good.

True, true. Case by case basis - sometimes schooling (at a school) works well, and sometimes it doesn't. I'm not "dead set" against schools across the board - they have their merits. Can't understand why someone would be "dead set" against homeschooling as a rule?...I should talk to my mom, she must've gone to school with you...

littlebug

I think home schooling would have been a better option for my youngest to be honest but I can only really say that now with hindsight and it isn't really an option just now What's keeping me going is the fact that I know that the teacher he'll have next year is lovely and takes a very individual approach so hopefully it'll get better for him then.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

Can't understand why someone would be "dead set" against homeschooling as a rule?...I should talk to my mom, she must've gone to school with you...

Because ive seen the darker side to home schooling.

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

Because ive seen the darker side to home schooling.

Ok, unless you're going to explain this at all I can't really see why you're even bringing it up. Obviously, there are extremely rare cases of a parent using HE as an opportunity to do ill to their child, but if you're not referencing this than I have no idea what you're talking about.

And whether or not you call it so, you are Home edding your child. You are acting as a teacher - and look! you may not even have a degree :rolleyes:

As far as education of a teenager, who's to say that someone with a degree is any more able to teach things than a devoted & interested parent? Anything that isn't already known is either (1) useless info school officials deem necessary to learn but is forgotten immediately b/c it has no relevance in real life, or (2) learnable. I think adults sometimes forget that they can learn things too. :P

iguana

grindelwald wrote: »

Because ive seen the darker side to home schooling.

And what about the darker side to schooling? I mean I had a pretty miserable time at school but at least nothing actually awful happened to me. Unfortunately I can't say the same about all of my friends/relatives. Many schools were places of deep, systematic abuse for generations and even now it still happens an awful lot more than it should.

Outside of serious criminal abuse, an awful lot of teachers are utterly incompetent and frustrated bullies. The best teachers get burned out because of the ridiculously large classroom sizes and the demands of the curriculum. The national curriculum doesn't cater to anyone who falls outside of average. Many things on the curriculum are actually wrong, as in wrong facts written in school books, supposedly for the sake of simplicity. Schools are little more than standardised learning factories, there can be some stand out fantastic teachers but most of your school career will be meeting certain targets or failing.

I've spent most of my career in the charity sector and since starting this thread I have met a lot of adults who were home-schooled and they were all extremely impressive people. It's hard to describe it exactly but they all had a deep aura of calm and confidence, they just seemed like nothing could ever truly rattle their foundations. I've also through working for a children's charity for a number of years been able to access information on school problems that most people don't see.

Yes there are problems with home-schooling but that is usually down to problems with the parents. People home-school for different reasons. If a child is home-schooled because the parents wanted their children to have a wider education, designed around each particular child with the purpose of teaching them to learn and love learning, then it's a great thing. However there are home-schoolers who decide on that method of education because they want to limit what the child learns, perhaps for fundamentalist religious reasons, and in that instance almost any outside school experience would be far preferable.

For what it's worth I don't yet have children. I lost a baby 2 years ago and after that my husband developed liver and kidney problems which made us decide to hold off on trying again. However we have both decided that if possible we will send our children to a full Montessori primary. (There is only one in the country that sticks to Montessori methods all the way through - Drumnigh in North Dublin.) If that's not possible either Steiner or home-schooling are both higher preferences than state schools and the only state schools that we'd be happy with, as they currently exist, are Educate Together schools as they mostly appear to advocate a child-centred element of learning. (Though this varies from school to school.)

The biggest thing that would hold me back with regards to home-schooling is that if either one of us was ill again, like my husband has been, then a good school could provide a buffer from living with that.

Grawns

grindelwald wrote: »

Because ive seen the darker side to home schooling.

I used to associate home schooling with religous radicals, total freaks who wanted to make sure the only pollution going into their children's heads came directly from them. You see it in America all the time and here within minority religions such as jehovah's witnesses. They want their children to be outside mainstream society and don't think of the emotional and social consequences of demonising society as a whole. So there is a dark side.

That being said I probably would have appreciated homeschooling ( but by who?) in primary school as I was bored out of my tree and often faked illness so I could stay home and read. I wouldn't have the patience to home school myself so there would have to be a pressing reason, bullying etc. Funnily enough my Mother was a primary teacher and not suited to teaching at all. I would not have enjoyed her teaching me

Chuchoter

Although I would be one of the kinds of students that people are saying would benefit from home schooling (gifted children) I would personally say home schooling would have been incredibly damaging for me, and I've been bullied a fair bit in my time in school, it hasn't been easy. Being in a community of people is part of life, you have to learn to fit in (sorry, its true) and respect everyone. Sure our education does not serve my educational needs, but in terms of my own personal development, it has forced me to learn important lessons about myself and the world that I simply would not have learned in with my parents all day. I also think it would deprive you of the chance to see other points of view on life, it sounds like an excellent opportunity for some very controlling parents to influence every waking moment of their child's life. I don't know how people home-schooled all their lives manage to function as normal people when they get into university.

iguana

crayolastereo wrote: »

Being in a community of people is part of life, you have to learn to fit in (sorry, its true) and respect everyone. Sure our education does not serve my educational needs, but in terms of my own personal development, it has forced me to learn important lessons about myself and the world that I simply would not have learned in with my parents all day.

But in general home-schooled children in this part of the world do that far better than schooled children. They actually spend their early lives as parts of the real community rather than in the extremely unnatural school community. Schools have very, very little compatibility with real life. No where else are people so segregated by age, do they have to sit and stand when told (outside of mass), is it ok to utterly humiliate a person in front of their peers. It certainly doesn't simulate community. Children learn social development and interaction better outside of school, just playing with their peers and interacting with their friends, family, family friends and friends' families.

Chuchoter

iguana wrote: »

But in general home-schooled children in this part of the world do that far better than schooled children. They actually spend their early lives as parts of the real community rather than in the extremely unnatural school community. Schools have very, very little compatibility with real life. No where else are people so segregated by age, do they have to sit and stand when told (outside of mass), is it ok to utterly humiliate a person in front of their peers. It certainly doesn't simulate community. Children learn social development and interaction better outside of school, just playing with their peers and interacting with their friends, family, family friends and friends' families.

In work, you are separated by seniority of post, are bossed around by anyone and everyone and in careers like medicine, being humiliated by angry senior doctors is part of life, you have to learn to not let it get to you. Home-schooling is an idealized version of real life. Life is hard, people are mean, school prepares you for that.

Nevyn

Home school kids are monitored and have to pass exams to prove they are being proplerly educated, but the curriculum is more flexible.

http://www.henireland.org/
http://www.homeschool-ireland.com

iguana

crayolastereo wrote: »

In work, you are separated by seniority of post, are bossed around by anyone and everyone and in careers like medicine, being humiliated by angry senior doctors is part of life, you have to learn to not let it get to you. Home-schooling is an idealized version of real life. Life is hard, people are mean, school prepares you for that.

Seniority of post has to do with capability and the job being done, age segregation makes no sense at all.

There is a very big difference between being reprimanded by a boss and a child being humiliated by an adult. While bosses may be nasty and do it in a humiliating fashion it is still adult to adult and can't be compared to adult to child.

I had a particularly horrible boss once. when she tried to bully me I moved as much of our correspondence as I could into written format so that I had it all chronicled. I also had outlets for my frustration, being able to talk to my husband, go for a drink and a bitching session with friends and (carefully) with co-workers, Krav-Maga, I looked through my notes from my previous job and reminded myself of how much both my boss and my boss's boss there had appreciated me. When I had enough of her attitude I got a new job and when HR had me complete a "leaving survey" I cited her, including written examples of her hypocrisy and bullying. I was able to make my own choices and live with them. I could put up with her while I did because it was my choice and when I no longer chose to I could choose to leave.

A child who is bullied by a teacher is powerless. They have no choice but to get up each morning and go to school. They can tell their parents but there is a very big chance their parents will erroneously compare it to an adult work environment and ultimately tell them to suck it up. Children are powerless when it comes to the decisions about their lives. Which is utterly crushing when they are in a bad environment.

Good home-schooling is actual real life. What is idealised about getting on with life in the actual world? About having to interact with people of all ages and in multiple posts to get what you want and need? It's what we all do all of the time.

implausible

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and has a right to educate his or her child in the way they see fit. However, I would worry about the motivation of a parent in home-schooling.

iguana wrote: »

I mostly hated school, I enjoyed the time I had with my friends, but I don't think it was the right learning environment for me. There were subjects that I loved such as science, but grew to hate due to uninspiring teachers.

If it's a choice based on the individual child's needs, the other educational options and sound academic studies, then great. I would have reservations though about a parent making that choice based on her own experience of school and negativity towards the teaching profession. Just because a parent had a negative experience of school doesn't mean the child will. Each child is an individual.

Truley

crayolastereo wrote: »

In work, you are separated by seniority of post, are bossed around by anyone and everyone and in careers like medicine, being humiliated by angry senior doctors is part of life, you have to learn to not let it get to you. Home-schooling is an idealized version of real life. Life is hard, people are mean, school prepares you for that.

One could argue that conventionally schooled children are more likely to resign themselves to confining environments and bullying people. Home-schooled children can realise that they shouldn't just blindly accept injustices and that there are always alternatives, the freedom to avoid oppressive structures.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

The biggest thing that would hold me back with regards to home-schooling is that if either one of us was ill again, like my husband has been, then a good school could provide a buffer from living with that.

I know 13 people who were home schooled and for only 1 of them things worked out.

My nephew is being home schooled by his terminally ill mother, she say" if he went to school he would bring back and infection that could kill me" . he is 9 and when she dies will have to go into mainstream school( because my brother cant teach him)which is is totally unprepared for.

His mother does not have the educational background to school him past primary school (very much doubt that will happen as she only has 3 years left). The last assessment that he had went fine and he was on par with others his age.

cynder

crayolastereo wrote: »

In work, you are separated by seniority of post, are bossed around by anyone and everyone and in careers like medicine, being humiliated by angry senior doctors is part of life, you have to learn to not let it get to you. Home-schooling is an idealized version of real life. Life is hard, people are mean, school prepares you for that.

Agree!

cynder

iguana wrote: »

Good home-schooling is actual real life. What is idealised about getting on with life in the actual world? About having to interact with people of all ages and in multiple posts to get what you want and need? It's what we all do all of the time.

I was told i had a old head on young shoulders, which i did and still do, but find it hard interact with people my own age, all because i was kept home from 5th class onwards. mom tired to home school us, didn't work.

Ayla

I think a lot of people still see HE as a parent sitting down with their child & a bunch of books all day Monday-Friday. In fact, from what I've found, the opposite is generally true. The learning is much more interactive and flexible, and is child-directed.

In other words, when the child notes an interest in a particular subject (ie: Egyptian history), then the parent uses that interest to learn all about it from different perspectives - geometry, history, government, social structures, agriculture, food, fashion...and to top it all off, once they learn about it, there's nothing stopping them from hopping on a plane & visiting the pyramid sites firsthand! That is something you just cannot get from sitting in a classroom with a number of students & 1 teacher.

And it must be said specifically - children who are homeschooled do not (generally) exist in a bubble. From the research that's out there (links on the Primary & Preschool thread), HE kids are much more interactive & active in the community (through volunteering, church, sports, music, etc) and wind up being much more involved in local issues/government as adults. This therefore seems to indicate that HE kids don't live outside the "real" world, nor are they social hermits that can't function in groups and/or society as a whole.

Obviously, the success and/or failure of HE boils down completely to the adult/child relationship & their mutual desire to do it together. There are good - and not so good - outcomes, but the same could be said for conventionally schooled children.

the_syco

IMO, there should be a interview type test that parents have to do before they can home school their children, to assess their mental health, their reasons for home schooling their kid, and to ensure that they have the knowledge to teach.

metrovelvet

the_syco wrote: »

IMO, there should be a interview type test that parents have to do before they can home school their children, to assess their mental health, their reasons for home schooling their kid, and to ensure that they have the knowledge to teach.

But you can get outside support too for the gaps in your own knowledge. Its not just the parents teaching.

I have a friend who was a competitive world champion ice skater and she had tutors her whole life until she went to third level.

the_syco

metrovelvet wrote: »

But you can get outside support too for the gaps in your own knowledge. Its not just the parents teaching.

I have a friend who was a competitive world champion ice skater and she had tutors her whole life until she went to third level.

Sorry, should have added knowledge to teach and look for information. But mainly on their mental health, and their reason for doing home-schooling.

Me, I'm glad I went to school. Learnt a lot, and learnt (after a few years of being bulied) not to take sh|t from anyone. Pretty much all of the bullying was done outside the school, so home schooling wouln't have helped that much, but being in school taught me how to make friends, and how to attack enemies.

If I ever have a kid, I'll ensure they do some sort of martial arts from a young age.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

I think a lot of people still see HE as a parent sitting down with their child & a bunch of books all day Monday-Friday. In fact, from what I've found, the opposite is generally true. The learning is much more interactive and flexible, and is child-directed.

In other words, when the child notes an interest in a particular subject (ie: Egyptian history), then the parent uses that interest to learn all about it from different perspectives - geometry, history, government, social structures, agriculture, food, fashion...and to top it all off, once they learn about it, there's nothing stopping them from hopping on a plane & visiting the pyramid sites firsthand! That is something you just cannot get from sitting in a classroom with a number of students & 1 teacher.

And it must be said specifically - children who are homeschooled do not (generally) exist in a bubble. From the research that's out there (links on the Primary & Preschool thread), HE kids are much more interactive & active in the community (through volunteering, church, sports, music, etc) and wind up being much more involved in local issues/government as adults. This therefore seems to indicate that HE kids don't live outside the "real" world, nor are they social hermits that can't function in groups and/or society as a whole.

Obviously, the success and/or failure of HE boils down completely to the adult/child relationship & their mutual desire to do it together. There are good - and not so good - outcomes, but the same could be said for conventionally schooled children.

I'm taking my daughter to the pyramids in May next year (already booked) and she is at school (5th class), It depends how much a parent earns, if you have an unemployed parent teaching a child at home how can they afford to take their child to Egypt? where as if you have a rich parent who provides tutors for their child and can take time off work to take their child to Egypt all well n good. You cant turn round and say only well off parents can home school their child because they can take them to different countries.

Also i learned all about weeds as i was sent out in the pouring rain pulling them up, also i knew about car engines as i was outside drilling out spot weld to remove them. I could fish and lake lead weights for fishing, i could steer a 20ft boat, I could cook sunday roasts at 12, but i would have preferred to have gone to school because when i stepped out in the real world at 14(i started full time work at 14 (1994)) i wasn't prepared for it (girls are such bitches) and tried to kill myself at 15. I was no idiot because i went back to school at 22 and did the leaving cert applied and got a score of 196 out of 200. If id only been given the chance to go to school and get a proper education i wouldn't have had a problem with self worth and not feel inferior to everyone else. I would have been great at school. I missed out on a lot and i wouldn't recommend it to anyone.


From my experience all the 13 people i know who were home schooled lived in a bubble. Yes some of them found it hard to socialise others didn't. Each and every one is different and you don't know you have made the wrong decision until its too late. My own nephew lives in a bubble, between taking care of his sick mom and leaning about all of his 23+pets he receives little contact with kids his own age and is socially odd because of it, he doesn't know how to react around other kids, he is either to grown up (asking if you have washed your hands each time you leave the toilet,) or too immature (jumping round like an ape and making rude noises) his 9.

Each to their own.

Moonbeam

As parents it is our job to educate our kids.
My little one is only a 21 months old and is in creche so I don't get as much time with her as I would like but her whole world is about learning.
She learns about animals from books and mimics them,I take her to the zoo so that she can see them.She has a pet dog that she helps look after.
She learns songs and comes home and sings them for us which in some cases involves me having to google random words to find out what she is trying to sing,so we learn them and sing them and do the actions with her.
She has learned cause and effect and how to sequence basic things.
This is not much different from an older child learning in school for the best education parents need to be involved.
We don't really know anyone where we live so most of her socialising is in the creche and some more of it is in the playground.
I don't feel that I have the knowledge or experience to home school her but have choosen the school that she will go to carefully and I will keep up with what she is doing and where I can add to it.
I also feel it is important to learn to socialise with her peers and learn to deal with situations that will never arise at home but will equip her for life.
Her peers in school might not always who we wish them to be but this is live we pick our friends but not the people that we have to deal with daily.
She will learn about other cultures she will elarn about different ways of doing things and mammy will always be there to sort things out and pick up the pieces and fill any gaps in what she learns in school.
If we lived in a very rural area,she had special learning needs or was a sick child I would go educate myself now to deal with educating her at home on both the socia level and the academic level.

cynder

Moonbeam wrote: »

,she had special learning needs or was a sick child I would go educate myself now to deal with educating her at home on both the social level and the academic level.

I was in with the early intervention services today, working on an IDP (individual development plan) for my boy. They are signing me up for another course, i have done the 'Hanen More Than words' course and I am to do a behavioral course (as he has a few issues), his pre school assistant has volunteered to do the course with me, so we can both work with him, me at home and she will work with him at pre school.

Parents are primary educators in every day things, Why do you think most kids know their abc's and can count to 10 and know their colours before they start school. But schools go further and explore more areas, Ive never done science/chemistry/physics so how can i teach my child. I do know a bit about biology but not as much as they would learn from secondary school. Are parents going to sit their child through the discovery channel or the history channel or animal planet? Many families enjoy watching them together in the evening any way, we do.

Moonbeam

Dunno how I would deal with 2nd level I personally couldn't do it in the irish system.
We would probably have to do a levels and if her chosen subjects weren't our specialties then it wouldn't be possible with out an outside tutor!

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

...But schools go further and explore more areas, Ive never done science/chemistry/physics so how can i teach my child. I do know a bit about biology but not as much as they would learn from secondary school...

I have to disagree with this, mainly b/c my schooling (in the classroom) - and what I'd imagine most students experience - is from the book. It's dictated by some central education board & doesn't necessarily go into the depth or topics of interest to the individual student. For example, in math class, we'd spend the whole time watching the teacher working equations on the chalkboard, then we'd try to reproduce the same results by doing the questions on our own. The only individual attention we'd get was if we'd stay after & ask for specific help. As someone who always struggled with math I spent many an hour in tears over my math book trying to figure it out b/c I just didn't "get it."

This is an issue that would never arise in homeschooling, b/c the parent would be able to identify the difficulty before it ever became an problem.

My husband remembers in primary school (a one-room school that he shared with a grand total of about 15 kids), he tried to get the teacher to talk about planets b/c he'd already finished the "work" for the day, but the teacher couldn't be diverted from the teaching plans & had a number of other kids to cater to.

And the examples are endless... ever wonder why students are so excited if they finally manage to get the teacher off on a tangent? Possibly, it's because - for a short time - the teacher's not just "teaching" but actually "sharing" how information can be useful & exciting.

Grindelwald, it's obvious that your homeschooling experience was negative, and you seem to blame it for a lot of your current angst, all of which is quite regrettable. However, I really don't see how a single teacher with 30-odd kids can possibly challenge & encourage each student as personally as a home-educator could.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

I have to disagree with this, mainly b/c my schooling (in the classroom) - and what I'd imagine most students experience - is from the book. It's dictated by some central education board & doesn't necessarily go into the depth or topics of interest to the individual student. For example, in math class, we'd spend the whole time watching the teacher working equations on the chalkboard, then we'd try to reproduce the same results by doing the questions on our own. The only individual attention we'd get was if we'd stay after & ask for specific help. As someone who always struggled with math I spent many an hour in tears over my math book trying to figure it out b/c I just didn't "get it."

This is an issue that would never arise in homeschooling, b/c the parent would be able to identify the difficulty before it ever became an problem.

My husband remembers in primary school (a one-room school that he shared with a grand total of about 15 kids), he tried to get the teacher to talk about planets b/c he'd already finished the "work" for the day, but the teacher couldn't be diverted from the teaching plans & had a number of other kids to cater to.

And the examples are endless... ever wonder why students are so excited if they finally manage to get the teacher off on a tangent? Possibly, it's because - for a short time - the teacher's not just "teaching" but actually "sharing" how information can be useful & exciting.

Grindelwald, it's obvious that your homeschooling experience was negative, and you seem to blame it for a lot of your current angst, all of which is quite regrettable. However, I really don't see how a single teacher with 30-odd kids can possibly challenge & encourage each student as personally as a home-educator could.

How does a parent teach a child something they dont know, they have to know it to teach it.

Are you just going to hand your child a book any say read that? or will you show examples say on a board???????? like in school!
Or will you tell them to look it up on the net, that way, are they not teaching themselves rather than you teaching them.

Why didn't your husband asks his parents about the planets when he got home?

I know my kids ask me questions.

I have no current angst i am very happy, i got myself an education something i was denied as a child. I think anyone who thinks teaching a child at home is the best way is living in la la land and perhaps it will take 20 years for the mistake to become apparent maybe sooner. It could even be the right choice for that child, if the parent puts every effort and resource in and hires a tutor when and where appropriate.

iguana

grindelwald wrote: »

But schools go further and explore more areas, Ive never done science/chemistry/physics so how can i teach my child. I do know a bit about biology but not as much as they would learn from secondary school.

On the otherhand I knew a huge amount about science as a young child. I was especially fascinated by astronomy and astrophysics. (Though genetics and chemistry were also interests.) I had piles of books and star-charts, a telescope, microscope and chemistry set. My encyclopaedia of science was one of my favourite books. I was starting to learn about the ancient Greek astronomers and mathematicians around the time I started secondary and was seriously eager to get to school and start formal math and science classes but boy were they a bust.

I knew a lot more about the areas I was interested in than we were taught. In fact much of the subjects were simplified to the point of being incorrect. We were actually told in junior cert science that there is no scientific formula to show how bees can fly!!!!!:eek: I was bored out of my skull and extremely frustrated to be learning things that were ultimately wrong. It was also deeply frustrating that math and science classes weren't coordinated as they are so clearly interlinked. (History too.) I also felt that if the subject I knew about were being taught incorrectly then there was a very good chance the subject I didn't know about weren't going to be accurate either.

After three years of that I loathed science. It went from being the subject I was most eager about going into secondary school to being the one I couldn't wait to drop the most. From 8-13 it was a great passion, by 15 I couldn't stand it so much I had almost no interest in it for another 15 years. It's been such a joy in the last couple of years to regain that interest but I'm DAMN angry to have lost so much time with it. Often in the evenings that I'm home alone I try to teach myself complex math so I can learn to understand the math behind the science because as it stands now I only understand the story. (I'm basically the Korean student in A Serious Man.) I was better at this 20 years ago than I am now. Quite a few people I know had similar experiences.

Maybe because the subjects aren't of interest to you, you aren't aware that much of what is taught in schools is wrong. Actually, really, really wrong. Repeatedly throughout school I came up against things in my two favourite subjects that I knew to be wrong in History and Science and when I'd ask the teachers about it, it was clear they didn't even know that what they were teaching was wrong. I have a very real problem with the fact that schools are misinforming children through carelessness and that teachers have so little interest in what they are teaching that they don't even know that they are misinformed themselves. Parents assume what is taught in schools is at least based on fact because they aren't informed about the subjects but too often that's not the case. I have no interest in sending any children I may have into such an environment. I want them to learn and learn how to keep learning.

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

How does a parent teach a child something they dont know, they have to know it to teach it.

Are you just going to hand your child a book any say read that? or will you show examples say on a board???????? like in school!
Or will you tell them to look it up on the net, that way, are they not teaching themselves rather than you teaching them..

Wow, it is that impossible to conceive of the idea that parents & kids can learn simulataneously? Why would it be a bad thing that a parent recognizes their limitations, knows they don't know everything, then take an active interest in learning alongside their child? If anything, I think this gives a strong message to the child that learning really can be a lifelong pursuit and not just something to be drilled to pass the next exam!

grindelwald wrote: »

Why didn't your husband asks his parents about the planets when he got home?

I know my kids ask me questions.

Well, without going into unneccessary detail, I suppose it's fair to say that my husband's parents would not have known any information, nor would they have felt particuarly interested in learning it.

grindelwald wrote: »

I have no current angst i am very happy, i got myself an education something i was denied as a child. I think anyone who thinks teaching a child at home is the best way is living in la la land and perhaps it will take 20 years for the mistake to become apparent maybe sooner...

This is my point - you hold a lot of resentment toward the way you were taught - or how you felt you were not taught. And maybe HE wasn't the right choice for you at the time. But it did give you the drive to increase your education later in life completely on your own initiative. It's all hypothetical to speculate what you would or wouldn't have been if you had gone to a classroom setting.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

Wow, it is that impossible to conceive of the idea that parents & kids can learn simulataneously? Why would it be a bad thing that a parent recognizes their limitations, knows they don't know everything, then take an active interest in learning alongside their child? If anything, I think this gives a strong message to the child that learning really can be a lifelong pursuit and not just something to be drilled to pass the next exam!





This is my point - you hold a lot of resentment toward the way you were taught - or how you felt you were not taught. And maybe HE wasn't the right choice for you at the time. But it did give you the drive to increase your education later in life completely on your own initiative. It's all hypothetical to speculate what you would or wouldn't have been if you had gone to a classroom setting.

So who is teaching, no one!!!!!! It will be like here's a book learn, oh and i will try and learn too because here i am teaching you and i dont have a clue.



Yes i would have been dam good at school (if i can go back and do the lca at 22 and get top marks and only having a level of 5th class education all others in my class has J.C and scored way less than me). Im not stupid I never was, I didn't have the piece of paper to prove it. Who would hire someone with only primary school education in this day and age, that was ok for those back in the 1960's. I find your post very patronising(maybe not your intent but thats how i picked it up). I was only taught for less than 3 months, then it faded into nothing, we had no education only from own experiences and TV. I only had the level of education of someone in 5th class, i was good at math but at 11 i could only teach myself so much. I did get a gcse math book of another girl who was home schooled and i was able to do most of that.

I loved school, I loved learning, I was good if not v.good at school work. HE was not for me and as i see it not for any of the other 13 people i know who were home schooled.

Also its not resentment its that i hate to see other kids have their education threw away with the lovely thought of homeschooling. I think about my nephew and think poor thing, he will have a hugh wall to climb when she dies.

cynder

iguana wrote: »

On the otherhand I knew a huge amount about science as a young child. I was especially fascinated by astronomy and astrophysics. (Though genetics and chemistry were also interests.) I had piles of books and star-charts, a telescope, microscope and chemistry set. My encyclopaedia of science was one of my favourite books. I was starting to learn about the ancient Greek astronomers and mathematicians around the time I started secondary and was seriously eager to get to school and start formal math and science classes but boy were they a bust.

I knew a lot more about the areas I was interested in than we were taught. In fact much of the subjects were simplified to the point of being incorrect. We were actually told in junior cert science that there is no scientific formula to show how bees can fly!!!!!:eek: I was bored out of my skull and extremely frustrated to be learning things that were ultimately wrong. It was also deeply frustrating that math and science classes weren't coordinated as they are so clearly interlinked. (History too.) I also felt that if the subject I knew about were being taught incorrectly then there was a very good chance the subject I didn't know about weren't going to be accurate either.

After three years of that I loathed science. It went from being the subject I was most eager about going into secondary school to being the one I couldn't wait to drop the most. From 8-13 it was a great passion, by 15 I couldn't stand it so much I had almost no interest in it for another 15 years. It's been such a joy in the last couple of years to regain that interest but I'm DAMN angry to have lost so much time with it. Often in the evenings that I'm home alone I try to teach myself complex math so I can learn to understand the math behind the science because as it stands now I only understand the story. (I'm basically the Korean student in A Serious Man.) I was better at this 20 years ago than I am now. Quite a few people I know had similar experiences.

Maybe because the subjects aren't of interest to you, you aren't aware that much of what is taught in schools is wrong. Actually, really, really wrong. Repeatedly throughout school I came up against things in my two favourite subjects that I knew to be wrong in History and Science and when I'd ask the teachers about it, it was clear they didn't even know that what they were teaching was wrong. I have a very real problem with the fact that schools are misinforming children through carelessness and that teachers have so little interest in what they are teaching that they don't even know that they are misinformed themselves. Parents assume what is taught in schools is at least based on fact because they aren't informed about the subjects but too often that's not the case. I have no interest in sending any children I may have into such an environment. I want them to learn and learn how to keep learning.

If you liked it that much and were super intelligent why did you not pursue it in college where info is abundant. They are secondary school teachers not professors. Do you think your parents had to knowledge to fulfill your scientific needs, would they have been able to come up with a scientific formula to show how bees can fly? Do you think your parents could have taught you all you needed to know about science? Do you think you would have made any progress if you parents were teaching you? Would you have been better taught by a tutor who had a degree/masters/PhD in science? (and how much would that have cost?)

Would home schooling have been a better option for you at 12/13? why? what resources would you have needed? Would your parents have been up to the job or would they have had to hire someone?

Present time - i haven't seen that film but why don't you do an open university course to try and get a better grasp of complex math.


Also wasn't it taught in school that Pluto was a planet and now with further investigations it now not classed as a planet. Mistakes happen.