Sexist Car insurance Industry

Webmonkey

I am going to college next oct. and I am planning in driving in and out every day. I will need to be driving in the summer so I was just searching around there on the internet for insurance companies.

Came across Quinn Direct. http://www.quinn-secure.com
Right - I enter all my details, what car i would probably be driving. A rover 400 1.3l. Quotes me €3200 at the end, quite a lot...but then I got an idea, how about I do exactly the same again only this time pretend i'm female and change my name to Mary O' Connor instead. My final quote then is €1700
I think this is bloody rediclous, i'm angry at the moment.
I would love to see the matimatical formula for that quote system.

Now-a-days girls are driving just as fast and carlessly as boys. I'm sorry but its turning totally that way, that girls are just as bad as boys.
I don't want to start a sexist argument here with girls but infernous if it was the other way around, if the girl was quoted 3200 and boy 1700, then there would be almight up roar.

When is this going to change could anybody tell me?

By the way can someone let me know what they think best motor insurance companies are? Quinn Direct allow you to pay in installments, which is handy, any other companies do this, and do it more than 10 installments?

Thanks.

Webmonkey

Repli

Well as far as I know insurance companies use statistics among other things to make up their quotes.. and statistics show that young males have more accidents than young females.. so they can't just give everyone the same quote.. it wouldn't make sense.. if you were an insurance company, would you give the same quote for house insurance to a 300 year old house built on the edge of an eroding cliff, and a new house in a quiet suburb? No.. insurance doesn't work like that..

Webmonkey

Yeah good point there. God damn speeders out there driving up the nice safe drivers quotes

embee

Might I suggest Britton Insurance ?

Whilst it is always going to be the case that young men will pay higher premiums than young women, Britton Insurances quotes have been consistently lower than anywhere else for me.

de5p0i1er

Webmonkey wrote:

Quinn Direct allow you to pay in installments, which is handy, any other companies do this, and do it more than 10 installments?

Thanks.

Webmonkey

A friend of mine pays them through installments and they charged him €600 extra for the year so be careful of hidden charges.

Guy:Incognito

Repli wrote:

Well as far as I know insurance companies use statistics among other things to make up their quotes.. and statistics show that young males have more accidents than young females.. so they can't just give everyone the same quote.. it wouldn't make sense.. ..

They do in other countries. In Germany everyone starts off on roughly the same low rate and how you perform (claims, points etc) determine whether your premiums drop or rise. It's individual rather than Genden specific. Insurance companys could'nt care less whether they are insuring an 18 male or female, but they know that they can charge a male more so they do, simple as.

simu

Yeah, the whole thing seems a bit random - maybe young males get into more crashes but could they not split it up further and take issues such as educational level/job/geographical location/type of driving education received etc into consideration and see if there's some pattern as well?

Spunog UIE

they do but it doesn't have as big an impact as sex. If your a student, you will generally pay more! If you live in the city you will pay more.

It is a disgrace the differences based on sex, but even if you ignore those differences, the prices everyone pay are brutal as well. Oh its all about Ireland and its claim culture and massive court fees, yet they are still making millions, it is estimated that their profits have increased dramatically over the last 5 years according to nearly every report you see.

OLDYELLAR

be very wary if paying by direct debit with quinn direct , they have a reputation for being complete basta*ds to people paying by direct debit .

ExOffender

I know a guy who's 23/24, six years claim-free driving, five on a full license. His insurance in Ireland is 1,000+ euros. In England, with the same company it's around 7-800. There's more to this than it seems.
But yes, women are statistically safer drivers than men. This is the industry that means shoplifters keep your home insurance premiums down, though, so expect a little mind-****ery...

MorningStar

Using sex to determine the insurence rate is just basically wrong and should not be allowed. More men actually drive as a carrear yet this is not balanced out in the figures. Men also tend to spend longer on the roads while driving. If other things were balanced out based on sex there would be an outcry. Health insurance for example would be more expensive for woman as they tend to go to the doctor more often and live longer requiring more medical attention as a result. How about higher pension contributions for woman because they live longer an need a bigger pension fund! If there is going to be sexism in the insurance rates lets make it equal.

Kernel

What's the story with black/african drivers? Do statistics based on their ethnic origin apply to them also?

The General

I don't want to start a sexist argument here with girls but infernous

You cant spell properly thats why they quoted you so much!


I checked out quinn as well and they quoted me 2900(fully comp) on a fiat punto1.2 but im getting it this summer for 1500(and that includes my mothers insurance as well)

Webmonkey

I dont understand why you went to the bother of quoting my bad spellings but where you get quoted for 1500.

MrPinK

Young males don't actually get in more accidents than young females, they are roughly the same. But the average claim where young male drivers are involved are serveal times bigger. Until this changes, men will continue to pay more.

Gideon wrote:

If you live in the city you will pay more.

Not necessarily. Each county is grouped according to accident statistics. Someone living in Longford pays more than someone living in Dublin, who pays more than someone living in Wexford.

More men actually drive as a carrear yet this is not balanced out in the figures. Men also tend to spend longer on the roads while driving

I don't see why that means they should pay less. The more time you spend on the road, the more likely you are to get in an accident.

Infini

THere was an article in the sun the other day. A guy sued an insurance company on sexual discrimination grounds after they quoted him for nearly E6000. Owned a clean drivers liscence and a bike. He not only won in the end but forced them to give him insurance for FREE. :cool:

MorningStar

MrPinK wrote:

I don't see why that means they should pay less. The more time you spend on the road, the more likely you are to get in an accident.

I never said it should be cheaper. I was pointing out that it isn't considered one way or the other when it would effect the figures. More men drive for a living spending longer on the roads=more men will be in accidents. We agree on the point but you missed my meaning

chrismon

im 19 driving 2 years 1 and half on full liscense and they basically laughed when i wanted to be quoted on a 1.4 astra

snappieT

The insurance industry is the only one legally allowed to discriminate against you. Favouritism indeed!

SouperComputer

you should get a better quote from Hibernian, provided you do their ignition scheme.

saved about 2k changing from a 1.4 to 1.6, TPFT to fully comp from quinn to hibernian.

you can pay in installments with them, but you will pay interest.

tinkerbell

The probability of a male being involved in an accident is significantly higher than the probability of a female being in an accident.

Hence, insurance companies have to protect themselves against people claiming.

When calculating a premium, they have to take into account expenses, the cost of a claim occuring, the benefit if a claim happens, etc. If they calculate too low a premium, and they get a load of male drivers in accidents, they'll lose money.

I know that nowadays, females may / may not be worse drivers, but those are the statistics that they have, and they will continue to work with those, until whenever.

It's exactly the same as life assurance is for smokers / non-smokers. Bigger premium for smokers, smaller for non-smokers because the mortality of a smoker is higher than that of a non-smoker.

Yes, the insurance industry does suck

The General

Webmonkey wrote:

I dont understand why you went to the bother of quoting my bad spellings but where you get quoted for 1500.

about the spelling i was just having a laugh, FBD is insurance company

The_Conductor

MorningStar wrote:

Using sex to determine the insurence rate is just basically wrong and should not be allowed. More men actually drive as a carrear yet this is not balanced out in the figures. Men also tend to spend longer on the roads while driving. If other things were balanced out based on sex there would be an outcry. Health insurance for example would be more expensive for woman as they tend to go to the doctor more often and live longer requiring more medical attention as a result. How about higher pension contributions for woman because they live longer an need a bigger pension fund! If there is going to be sexism in the insurance rates lets make it equal.

Ok- so young men tend to be involved in a higher proportion of accidents that result in insurance claims than do young women in a similar age profile (note- "that result in insurance claims"- women were involved in 17% more accidents notified to Hibernian last year than men, however a much higher number of the accidents females are in tend to be more minor in nature).

That is why young men pay more insurance than women in the same age group.

Why do women not pay higher life assurance / health insurance / pensions premia- because (as I was told by a member of the ICTU) "any man who so much as suggest the same principle apply would be ridiculed for being a sexist pig, irrespective of the fact that women live on average 4.5 years longer than men- one result of this being they also tend to be a much larger portion of the elderly people in hospital requiring long term assistance/healthcare. In addition, a much higher proportion of women in all age groups than men smoke.....

While on the subject of healthcare- risk equalisation means all young healthy people with health insurance pay exactly the same amount as much more acturarialy risky older patients, who are a lot more likely to result in claims, irrespective of whether they are male or female. If fairness were applied in this case- it would cost peanuts to insure someone under 50 who did not smoke and only drank in moderation- while anyone over 50 would be slaughtered (and god help them if they smoke).....

Why is this? Because for a woman to fight for her rights is seen as a noble and worthwhile endeavor and society applauds her. When a man attempts to fight for similar rights he is a sexist pig and his reputation is mud.......

I, for one, agree young males should definitively pay more car insurance- as we are at greater risk of being involved in more dangerous accidents. However, I would also argue, in the interests of equality, that women should pay greater pension contributions, in reflection of the fact that they live longer than men. As for young people having their relative health risks assessed when calculating health insurance- if we had a society where children took charge of their parents in old age- it might be possible- instead we have our hospitals clogged up with the elderly because their children have no interest in organising care for them themselves. Its a case of "not my problem, the state should take care"......

Whole lot is a fecking mess.....

The_Conductor

tinkerbell wrote:

The probability of a male being involved in an accident is significantly higher than the probability of a female being in an accident.

No, the probability of a male being involved in an accident resulting in a claim is significantly higher than the probability of a female in an accident resulting in a claim against her. Two totally seperate things....... Insurance companies measure their relative exposure to a potential situation- not the liklihood of the said situation occuring........

Last year women were involved in 17% more accidents notified to Hibernian than were men (however the accidents the men were in, resulted in much higher claims)........

There is a difference......

The General

kill all the women

tinkerbell

Yah sorry, I meant in regards to claims from accidents. I'm tired this evening

Nasty_Girl

Ok did anyone else but me hear about this,
Insurance companies upping the prices women pay so they're the same as mens...? It supposed to happen in the next few years.

Can't remember where I heard it though ...Maybe I dreamed it.

tinkerbell

No, I thought that was suggested, but they rubbished it then.

Nasty_Girl

Oh right,
Good to know I didn't imagine it all then

Would be a solution though

Guy:Incognito

It's all boolix and has nothing to do with statistics. It's purely because they get away with it. The same insurance companies are operating in other countries in a totally different way. They are able to operate an individual system elswhere, so why not here.

It's done on a personal levlel elswhere . ie you start off at your normal low rate, and the only thing that affects your premium from year to year is YOU, and YOUR driving, not what other people inyour age/sex bracket do.

I hardly think Ireland is an exception to every other country in the world with regard to young male drivers.

OLP

men drive more than women, therfore they get in more crashes, 'cause theres more opportunity

Sparky

its all about proving yourself to the Insurance company, if your a good driver they will reduce your premium, but if another september 11th comes along expect it to go up again.

Atleast the insurance now have a claims board, to deal with claims, i remember hearing people getting a few bruises after a slight bump and claiming 1000's, then they would be straight on hoiliday, thats what used to drive up premiums but now the insurance companies need some other excuse to get more money out of ya.

Insurance in ireland = Sexist, daylight robery.

And i have to ask the question (not being racist here) how do these black/africian people get insured, or do they even bother to get insured? Only ive seen a lot of nissan sunnys driving around with black people with no tax or insurance on them.

weemcd

had a friend (17 male) in a car crash yesterday. Typical boy racers, first car was a 1.9 tdi golf, too much power tbh. He can probably kiss driving goodbye for a few years.

Nasty_Girl

was he hurt?

seamus

Moved from AH

The_Conductor

weemcd wrote:

had a friend (17 male) in a car crash yesterday. Typical boy racers, first car was a 1.9 tdi golf, too much power tbh. He can probably kiss driving goodbye for a few years.

Hes 17 and he got a 1.9 Golf TDi and insurance on it, to boot?
My, times do change......
My first car at 17 was a 29 year old Volkswagon Beetle.
It had holes in the floor- anytime it rained water came in and splashed me or others. It was a rust bucket. That was 13 years ago. I'm still dreaming of that 1.9 TDi, and will probably still dreaming for some time to come......

Hopefully no-one was hurt. Your friend will get a shock when his insurance comes up for renewal though....... I was involved in an accident last year, my insurance (with Hibernian, and with an Ignition course done) went up by 60%. I keep my 30% Ignition discount, but loose my no-claims and my insurance is 60% higher- and I'm stuck with Hibernian for the next 4 years (as its unlikely that any other company will quote for me......) My accident resulted in three cars being written off, but no-one hurt (thankfully).

The_Conductor

Stekelly wrote:

It's all boolix and has nothing to do with statistics. It's purely because they get away with it. The same insurance companies are operating in other countries in a totally different way. They are able to operate an individual system elswhere, so why not here.

It's done on a personal levlel elswhere . ie you start off at your normal low rate, and the only thing that affects your premium from year to year is YOU, and YOUR driving, not what other people inyour age/sex bracket do.

I hardly think Ireland is an exception to every other country in the world with regard to young male drivers.

No, its not because they get away with it- its because they have a higher claims exposure from young male drivers. There is nothing strange or unusual- its plain economics at work. What is strange and unusual is that the market place is not at work in the other sectors- where "risk equalisation" is foisted on the population. It is a blatant discrimination that "risk equalisation" is enforced in certain sectors and not in others. It should either apply across the board, or alternatively be scrapped and people forced to pay according to their relative risk- as happens in an open economy. Women are entitled to cite risk equalisation as just cause for paying similar premia to men for all manners of assurance and insurance, however in the one area where they have a risk advantage from an insurance perspective- in car insurance, they are not willing to put the shoe on the other foot. It really is a case of females being allowed to have their cake and eat it......

Lord Nikon

Webmonkey wrote:

A rover 400 1.3l.

You can't get 1.3litre Rover 400's, you can get 1.4litre ones.

weemcd

aye he'll live, broken leg and shoulder possibly, he's back home now i think.

helluva lot of car for someone so young

Spent an awful lot of his parents and his own money on it tho.
Was a lovley car, i always thought he would of been different like, mature enough etc.
but sure this proves it about boys vs girls insurance.

bazz26

Also try http://www.bestquote.ie

Webmonkey

neuromancer wrote:

You can't get 1.3litre Rover 400's, you can get 1.4litre ones.

Yep sorry I ment 1.4l

Guy:Incognito

smccarrick wrote:

No, its not because they get away with it- its because they have a higher claims exposure from young male drivers. There is nothing strange or unusual- its plain economics at work. What is strange and unusual is that the market place is not at work in the other sectors- where "risk equalisation" is foisted on the population. It is a blatant discrimination that "risk equalisation" is enforced in certain sectors and not in others. It should either apply across the board, or alternatively be scrapped and people forced to pay according to their relative risk- as happens in an open economy. Women are entitled to cite risk equalisation as just cause for paying similar premia to men for all manners of assurance and insurance, however in the one area where they have a risk advantage from an insurance perspective- in car insurance, they are not willing to put the shoe on the other foot. It really is a case of females being allowed to have their cake and eat it......

So why are the same companies doing it completely different everywhere else.

Hotblack Desiato

Infini wrote:

THere was an article in the sun the other day. A guy sued an insurance company on sexual discrimination grounds after they quoted him for nearly E6000. Owned a clean drivers liscence and a bike. He not only won in the end but forced them to give him insurance for FREE. :cool:

Nothing to do with gender, he was 24 and they refused to quote (GSXR1000 sportsbike) on grounds of age which is illegal, went to the equality authority and won. So in future they'll probably just give a silly quote instead of a refusal...

pedro ferio-vti

Stekelly wrote:

So why are the same companies doing it completely different everywhere else.

Because they're only brand names, get some Busi&economics skillz man. The international names you see here in Ireland are only the irish companies rebranded to make it seem like they're this big multinational when in fact, the likes of Allianz, is really just good old Church & General, Eagle Star is Sheerans, AXA is just PMPA and Guardian.

It's a different environment here in Ireland, other posters have explained to you why you're getting raped for insurance, just live with it. Unless young drivers stop having accidents where 3 cars are written off as a result of it etc then nothing will change.

I will say that it is a good bit better than it used to be though.

ando

smccarrick wrote:

Hes 17 and he got a 1.9 Golf TDi and insurance on it

Jeez, I was 21 before I goto drive and even at that I was driven a 55 BHP van (0-60 eventually)! A 1.9Tdi is way to much grunt for a 17yr old imo

DubTony

pedro ferio-vti wrote:

The international names you see here in Ireland are only the irish companies rebranded to make it seem like they're this big multinational when in fact, the likes of Allianz, is really just good old Church & General, Eagle Star is Sheerans, AXA is just PMPA and Guardian.

Axa is a French which operates all over the world - they bought GRE a few years ago which in turn had bought PMPA previously
www.axa.com

Allianz is a German company operating all over the world. Check out the list on the left side of www.allianz.com

Zurich owns Eagle Star, and guess what? It operates all over the world.

These companies own the Irish companies and therefore have obviously decided to drop the old names and run with the recognised international one for branding purposes.

As for increasing womens premiums to match that of mens? Now that would cause a storm. I get the impression most of you guys aren't married. If my wife's premium was the same as mine we'd spend an extra €345 a year on car insurance.

If a male has a female named on the policy it usually reduces the cost. (Not sure about young drivers) This seemingly reduces the risk because the woman will be driving the car at some stage.

Tony

Guy:Incognito

pedro ferio-vti wrote:

It's a different environment here in Ireland, other posters have explained to you why you're getting raped for insurance, just live with it. Unless young drivers stop having accidents where 3 cars are written off as a result of it etc then nothing will change..

I'm standing by my opinion that we shouldnt be charged anymore than young drivers in other countries. Theres 17-18 year olds in Germany driving souped up BMW 5 series and bigger who are paying a fraction of what a similar driver is paying on his 1 litre micra.

The English have exactly the same ,if not worse "boy racer" culture that we have here, and in Europe its the same. The only difference is the level of testing and the fact that you have to take lessons, but thats the governments fault.

At the end of the day, young drivers are young drivers wherever they are from, and if young male drivers here are causing more claims here then I'll bet you its the same in England and Europe.

The fact of it is they start low and work up (if they have claims) whereas here, we start Very very high and gradually drop over long periods (10 years or so) to a level that is still unacceptible. My ex is 29 this month, has been driving on her own insurance for nearly 9 years claim free and her renewal next month is the first sub €1000 she has got (its down to around €780) .My uncle is an insurance broker in Germany and he laughs at these figures. He nearly got sick when I started driving a 1.2 clio at 19 and was paying £2600.

madrab

MorningStar wrote:

How about higher pension contributions for woman because they live longer an need a bigger pension fund! If there is going to be sexism in the insurance rates lets make it equal.

they do pay more for pensions

The_Conductor

madrab wrote:

they do pay more for pensions

The acturial tables have "risk equalisation" built into them (as they do for health insurance).

In the public sector, the acturial tables were only updated recently (as in, within the last 3 months) to take this into account. It is accepted that the current measure of risk associated with these tables does not comprise an accurate measure of the actual cost associated with honouring pension rights. This is precisely why the The National Pensions Reserve Fund was set up.

At present in the public sector, there is an onus on the part of the employee to claim the Social Welfare contributory Old Age Pension- as the bulk of their pension- this does not differentiate between sexes, and in practice comprises on average 60-80% of pension rights. (i.e. someone retiring from the civil service with 40 years service with a current salary of Euro 19,000 receives a state pension of less than 1,500 per annum- which is subject to acturially calculated contributions- along with a possible c.7,000 of Social welfare benefits which are not.....

If you have a look at post 1995 model schemes on the Department of Finance website it will go into a lot more detail.

I'm sorry- women receive massively favourable treatment in terms of pension contributions/ health insurance/ life assurance- along with equality (from a market perspective) in the car insurance industry. This is stated government policy- and is why the VHI and BUPA have been instructed that they have to operate an equalisation policy, both on sex and age.........

It is stated policy- and unlikely to change, as it would be political suicide for whoever tried to change it......

prospect

tinkerbell wrote:

The probability of a male being involved in an accident is significantly higher than the probability of a female being in an accident.

I don't think this is entirely correct, afaik the probability of a woman being in an accident is far higher than a male. But, the probability of a male being in a serious/fatal accident is higher than a female.

But even this is not good enough reason to say males are more dangerous on the road. Look at it like this:
1. There are more men on the roads than women, (fact)
2. There are more male professional drivers than women (trucks, busses, taxis, reps, couriers, etc)
3. Men spend more time on the road than women, (i know that whenever myself and my wife go out, i am always the one who drives)

Based on this, i reckon that if you could calculate the number of hours that men spend on the road, and the number of hours women spend on the road, and divide each by the number of accidents each had, the result would be almost the same.

The_Conductor

prospect wrote:

the number of accidents

And the seriousness of them......
Women are involved in more accidents than men, however the accidents men are involved in tend to be more serious......

Thats why we pay more insurance