Rule 42: Destroying Our Culture

4Xcut

The opening of Croker to the foreign games? Ok screw the economics of it, the government will squander the extra money they make on a new jet or a pay rise or something. It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture. I'm in no way anti-progress and of course landsdowne should be upgraded but a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture. may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation. We cannot destroy our own culture, there are enough other countries to do that *cough*american influence*cough*

Macker

American influence ???wasn't american football played in croaker


Macker

Sangre

And what effect will the games have on the GAA at all?
Oh, thats right a lot. Why?
Greatly increased money into the GAA which can be filtered back to the grassroots.

American influence?
Rofl

rugbug86

im glad that rule 42 was ammended... we shouldnt have to keep croker for the gaa (and aussie rules, and american football, and bono...) to show our nationality.

reckon there'll be uproar if the english anthem is ever played there though...

Lump

Who gives a ****... It's a pitch. Like a plot of grass. No different then anyother ground. Only bigger.

John

mp3guy

Lump wrote:

Who gives a ****... It's a pitch. Like a plot of grass. No different then anyother ground. Only bigger.

John

+1

I couldn't care less, i feel sorry for the people who do care about it

aidan_dunne

If they allow concerts and the like to take place at Croke Park, I can't see why they can't let other sports apart from Gaelic Games take place.

And all this talk of not allowing "foreign games" to be played on the "hallowed soil" of Croker really pisses me off. I mean, FFS, they allow "compromise rules" or whatever they call it nowadays, to be played there. And there was even an American Football game played there years ago as well. It's just that when it comes to the subject of "those dirty foreign English games" like soccer and rugby being played at Croker, then all the old-skool, "Up The Ra", Republican-types start getting their knickers in a twist! For f**ks sake, cop on! It's not 1916 anymore! :mad:

We have a fantastic stadium there which would be the envy of many other countries around the world, and should be shown off to the world as such. Which, might I add, was built in part using money provided by the government....... taxpayers money! Therefore, if the public want to see soccer and rugby being played there, it should be allowed. Just because games other than Gaelic are played there, it doesn't take away from our sense of Irishness or anything. I mean, at the end of the day, look at what all the arguing is over......... a piece of grass, for f**ks sake! :rolleyes:




[edit]Seems that while I was typing this out, other people who feel the same got in ahead of me. Seems I'm not alone in this line of thinking![/edit]

embee

I think "destroying our culture" is a wild exaggeration. Rule 42 was completely out of touch with the Ireland of today, so it had to be amended. It was sectarian in its essence. And whats the problem with "American influence"? Do you object in the "American influence" in other aspects of Irish life? Or is it just GAA? I can't speak for anyone else here, but I personally don't feel I am "signing my citizenship away" or am "crapping on the flag" by supporting the amendment to Rule 42.

In short, get over it.

tba

4Xcut wrote:

It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture.

Ah come on theres more stuff than a stadium.

4Xcut wrote:

a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture.

Its not like its kicking GAA out it will still be there.

Victor

I hear Bono will be singing in Irish only .....

flogen

If Irish culture is about intolerance towards cultures from overseas then I don't want anything to do with it. This will not have a negitive effect on GAA, the GAA still have total control over what is played and when. They will however reap large dividends from the venture and I say fair fúcks to them

Infini

Lump wrote:

Who gives a ****... It's a pitch. Like a plot of grass. No different then anyother ground. Only bigger.

John

I second that. :cool: In anycase after all the taxpayers money that went into redeveloping it, it should be used for more than just GAA games.

Johnny_the_fox

aidan_dunne wrote:

.. It's just that when it comes to the subject of "those dirty foreign English games" like soccer and rugby being played at Croker...

in all fairness, twelve spectators and a player were killed there... not to mention the last time a soccer match against the english at lansdown road - ended after 27 minutes... so its understandable..

at least in a rugby match you could sit beside an english fan and have some craic... soccer brings a total different *supporter*.

galwaydude18

Its damn time the GAA got sense and let other sports to be played in there! Its a disgrace that they got away with it for so long! They cost the tax payer millions in redeveloping the place so in my view every sport should be allowed to be played there!

nedoo

Its a field with seats around it. Who really gives a toss whether people can pick a ball up on the pitch or just use their feet. Wouldn't it be better to have the place generating money all year around and not just sitting there. If it is only intended for Irish heritage, get rid of the coffee stalls, beer taps, hot dog stands....none of these are Irish origin.

tba

galwaydude18 wrote:

so in my view every sport should be allowed to be played there!

even curling?

galwaydude18

tba wrote:

even curling?

I have no idea what curling is but I guess if it can be played on grass then ya why not?

tba

galwaydude18 wrote:

if it can be played on grass

ah wait I see a flaw in my reasoning

4Xcut

The point is that the gaa was founded to promote the spread of irish games over the two main english sports of rugby and football. As for american 'football' it shouldn't have been allowed. It is a symbol of our sports and our culture(one of the few left) and should not be turned over to other games. If you want to let the irish culture be played down then don't call yourself irish. I'm not saying that we should hate the english and other cultures but in embracing them we must be careful to maintain our own.

4Xcut

nedoo wrote:

Its a field with seats around it. Who really gives a toss whether people can pick a ball up on the pitch or just use their feet. Wouldn't it be better to have the place generating money all year around and not just sitting there. If it is only intended for Irish heritage, get rid of the coffee stalls, beer taps, hot dog stands....none of these are Irish origin.

Its a piece of cloth with colours on it, who cares if its green, white and gold or red white and blue. Its a big bit of land with people and trees and roads,etc. who cares if its called Ireland or the British commonwealth of Ireland. Everything is just objects but they have meaning.

tba

4Xcut wrote:

Everything is just objects but they have meaning.

What meaning does croke park have for you then?

BuffyBot

While we're at it, we better whip those girls at the crossroads - I heard one of them did some freestyling! They better get back to jigs and reels or it's a flogging!

Third_Echelon

Its people like you that make this country great :rolleyes:

4Xcut wrote:

The opening of Croker to the foreign games? Ok screw the economics of it, the government will squander the extra money they make on a new jet or a pay rise or something.

ok. why would the money be going to the government? Its not the government's stadium. Its the GAA's stadium. So your point here is complete uninformed scaremongering rubbish.

4Xcut wrote:

It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture. I'm in no way anti-progress and of course landsdowne should be upgraded but a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture.

Fair enough. I agree that croke park being the HQ of the GAA and all that is one of the things that 'represents' ireland, but I dont see how soccer and rugby are going to ruin our culture?

Surely getting rid of or 'ammending' the bigoted and outdated rule 42 represents what ireland is today? A multicultural society, with many types of different people and cultures. Its about time that the GAA's thinking caught up with the rest of the country.

4Xcut wrote:

may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation. We cannot destroy our own culture, there are enough other countries to do that *cough*american influence*cough*

Well if you want to crap on the flag as you so nicely put it, i would think that this is more of a disrespect to our country than soccer or rugby being played in croke park. Why would this mean that we 'sign our citizenship over to a different nation'?

Can i be french if we are playing the french at croke park? I wouldnt mind being French :rolleyes:

mycroft

Victor wrote:

I hear Bono will be singing in Irish only .....

Any chance we can push the guy one further and have him sing only in the gaelteacht?

The point is that the gaa was founded to promote the spread of irish games over the two main english sports of rugby and football. As for american 'football' it shouldn't have been allowed. It is a symbol of our sports and our culture(one of the few left) and should not be turned over to other games. If you want to let the irish culture be played down then don't call yourself irish. I'm not saying that we should hate the english and other cultures but in embracing them we must be careful to maintain our own.

Well for starts its telling that the major resistance was Ulster (but not donegal and cavan). It says to me that rule 42 is seen a "nationalist" issue. And frankly we're ten years on from the GFA agreement, and the relaxation fo the rule says something about the maturity of the GAA association that the can in the symbol of reconsilation and togetherness we (but not those in NI) can move forward and change.

Secondly what does it say about us a nation, that we're prefer to play all our rugby and soccer internationals in Wales and England, because

A) we can't get together to build a decent stadium

we have a decent staduim but because of some 100 year old rule designed to support a nuturing sports, which are now two of the best run and professionally organised amateur sports in the world, we're so desperately concerned for their continued existance we won't allow two other hugely popular but different sports play their matches in our pitch. How f*cking petty and small minded can we get?

Finally. The association made the choice. Now the fact that people in the Uk US and Australia have together the same amount of votes as Munster who hold both hurling and all Ireland cups, is wrong; however Munster and every county barring the NI counties and cork voting yes, thats grass roots GAA clubs voting yes. What more do you want.

The people who commit to the GAA through passion and sweat said yes. Our soccer n rugby teams get to play in a brillant stadium and we don't have the extra expense of a trip to Wales to watch our teams play. Which would be humilating for us, as country.

Fair f*cks to the cluiches for their maturity and ability to move on.

kaimera

muppet.

stop with the trolling tbh.

not content with yer views on GAA. fs.

get yore head out out the 18th century.

Praetorian

Personally I think it's great news that it's being opened. The bigoted northerners (and one or two crazy backward southern counties) who are clearly stuck in the past said no. Not surprising really. Now I can enjoy Dublin playing at croker, and the republic as well. Can't wait!

passive

"get yore head out out the 18th century."

err... speaking of muppet... kettle...pot..black... etc. (pretty sure it was founded in 20th century. too tipsy to bother looking up the exact date though... i should study my history)

and I agree with the majority on this one... screw pettiness and nationalism. The North and "the rebel county" were the naysayers, defines the whole no side really..

alleepally

It's a good news day today but wait until Monday when the talkshows open their telephone lines. No doubt there will be plenty ringing up to vent their spleen at this affront to Irishness (as they see it). I can bet any money that the ones that moan most about it are the ones who wouldn't get up off their arses to watch a local GAA team play, wouldn't encourage their children to play, read the "Irish" sun, support English soccer teams over Irish soccer teams etc etc.

It really speaks volumes that there are people out there who think that "Irishness" should equate to a patch of grass in the centre of Dublin. The patch of grass may have a historical resonance, but the young lads who train week in week out and play their hearts out at sport of their choosing other than a GAA sport deserve the best support possible and they deserve to see their Irish sporting heroes play in a stadium in Dublin. The need to see a venue built for their sport that is equal to the GAA's facilities. We can then all look forward to a day when there are two world class venues in the country where the national anthem is sung with equal vigor and respect.

therecklessone

4Xcut wrote:

The opening of Croker to the foreign games? Ok screw the economics of it, the government will squander the extra money they make on a new jet or a pay rise or something. It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture. I'm in no way anti-progress and of course landsdowne should be upgraded but a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture. may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation. We cannot destroy our own culture, there are enough other countries to do that *cough*american influence*cough*

When you can express that in your native language maybe I'll listen to you.

For the benefit of all the knuckle heads who think opening Croker is an assualt on our "culture", can I ask you all to think long and hard about the following:

McDonalds/Burger King/KFC/Pizza Hut/Dominos Pizza
Tesco/Aldi/Lidl
Topman/Burtons/Miss Selfridge
Argos/B&Q
HMV/Virgin
Sky 1/BBC/MTV

Been in anyone of these lately? Its not an exhaustive list by any means, I'm sure you can add your own.

murfie

HOLD ON!!

Why do most of the people here think that just because there is a stadium (croke park) for soccer and rugby to play in, that they have a right to be there!! For the past 15 odd years what have the FAI done with the money they make from world cups, friendies, euro championships???? Squandered every last cent of it!!!

Our soccer clubs here in Ireland have to get by on a shoestring because of the FAI incompetence. Why could they have not built their own stadium to play in??
At least I have some respect for the IRFU, they own Lansdowne road and want to invest in its future, fair play!!

And before anyone says the GAA got the money for croke park from the government, they received what any sporting body in Ireland is entitled to get. FAI could have done the same!!

I’m just sick of the people that have the opinion that the GAA are living in the dark ages, that’s not the reason some counties are having trouble with this. All the focus is on rule 42 here but what we really should be asking is why the FAI has not done anything to help itself!!
Why should it be up to the GAA to save the shame of the FAI??

Pixie.

4Xcut wrote:

The opening of Croker to the foreign games? Ok screw the economics of it, the government will squander the extra money they make on a new jet or a pay rise or something. It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture. I'm in no way anti-progress and of course landsdowne should be upgraded but a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture. may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation. We cannot destroy our own culture, there are enough other countries to do that *cough*american influence*cough*

I didn't read this thread, just your original post, and what a post it was, the embodiment of 'chip on shoulder', you are an embarrassment !

mycroft

murfie wrote:

HOLD ON!!

Why do most of the people here think that just because there is a stadium (croke park) for soccer and rugby to play in, that they have a right to be there!! For the past 15 odd years what have the FAI done with the money they make from world cups, friendies, euro championships???? Squandered every last cent of it!!!

Our soccer clubs here in Ireland have to get by on a shoestring because of the FAI incompetence. Why could they have not built their own stadium to play in??
At least I have some respect for the IRFU, they own Lansdowne road and want to invest in its future, fair play!!

And before anyone says the GAA got the money for croke park from the government, they received what any sporting body in Ireland is entitled to get. FAI could have done the same!!

I’m just sick of the people that have the opinion that the GAA are living in the dark ages, that’s not the reason some counties are having trouble with this. All the focus is on rule 42 here but what we really should be asking is why the FAI has not done anything to help itself!!
Why should it be up to the GAA to save the shame of the FAI??

So we allow rugby but not soccer?

The FAI management is a joke, and I'll agree but so are GAA rules, and despite this the county boards voted for this. F*cking deal with it. Furthermore it's not like the GAA haven't received state funding over the years, why shouldn't the state have a say in what is played there.

It's a pitch ffs. A nice piece of grass with some seats around it. the problem is people put too much significance in places and people.

simu

This is the best argument for that rule I've heard: The GAA is in competition with soccer etc all over the country in terms of attracting young kids to play. Croke Park belongs to the GAA and why should they help their competition, especially when that competition is a multi-million (if not billion?) global industry?

I'm not much of a sports fan but it seems like a reasonable argument.

murfie

mycroft wrote:

So we allow rugby but not soccer?

The FAI management is a joke, and I'll agree but so are GAA rules, and despite this the county boards voted for this. F*cking deal with it. Furthermore it's not like the GAA haven't received state funding over the years, why shouldn't the state have a say in what is played there.

It's a pitch ffs. A nice piece of grass with some seats around it. the problem is people put too much significance in places and people.

Dont get me wrong here, I should have stated that I am in favour of opening up the stadium, but the general opinion seem to be that Croke Park is a public stadium which it is not, its the GAA's home and they can do with as they please.

And as i said about the state funding, its nothing the FAI or the IRFU could not also have got, most funding came from the lotto sporting fund and the GAAs own money.

Flukey

I'd say I've been in Croke Park more times than anyone here. I've been in Lansdowne Road too, though not nearly as often. Most of the people that watch GAA, are the same ones that watch soccer and rugby. We're called sports fans. We may have our favourites, but we still watch the others, so in many ways they are not competing, because they are getting the same fans. If there is a big soccer match on, there is normally not a big rugby match or GAA game on, so we can watch them all.

It is not a them and us situation. It is We! We watch all sports, not just Gaelic sports or just rugby or just soccer. If Ireland are playing in a rugby or soccer international, or any Irish team or person is representing us in any sport, then we are interested. That is Irish sport. We want Ireland to win, whatever the sport is. So ensuring we can see an Irish team playing their home games at home and wanting them to win is something very Irish and part of our culture.

Our two national sports, will still be the top games, whether soccer or rugby are played in Croke Park or not. The GAA has nothing to fear on that score. When an Irish soccer or rugby team runs out onto Croke Park, once the first whistle is blown, our interest will be in the match, not the venue.

The FAI should have their own ground and that is the real issue. The GAA have in effect being blamed for the failings of the FAI. Still, at present the FAI don't have their own ground and they are playing in Lansdowne Road. They can continue to do so for now. Once the bulldozers move in there, then they and the IRFU should be welcome to use Croke Park, until the day the new Lansdowne Road opens.

jonski

imho As we move on so does our culture and what it means to be Irish . Our soccer fans are known troughout the world , our soccer team has made a good name for itself , same too with the Rugby and of late golf ( although unless its of the mini variety then this should not be allowed in Croker ) . These sports are no longer "foreign" but have become imbroiled in our culture .

Guy:Incognito

simu wrote:

This is the best argument for that rule I've heard: The GAA is in competition with soccer etc all over the country in terms of attracting young kids to play. Croke Park belongs to the GAA and why should they help their competition, especially when that competition is a multi-million (if not billion?) global industry?

I'm not much of a sports fan but it seems like a reasonable argument.

It's not really a competition. Lot's of people play both ( although the GAA did a lot to discourage that, including banning it's players from playing football) and a lot of people choose one or the other. I played Gealic and Hurling in primary school but didnt like either, I much prefer football and always have. The rewards at the top level of each sport are non-comparible as one is professional and the othe amatuer. Topp GAA players have to have a full -time job and struggle to get even petrol money from their county boards. A professional footballer has only that job and earns up to £100,000 a week, so the GAA can't compete on that level.

Like the church the GAA is one of tthe richest Landowers in the country (probably the two richest) but like to cry poverty. They are not stuck for players and are doing quite well for themselves. Funny how we don't hear any of these arguements from the Rugby crowd.

coolhandluke

While i was probably 55/45 in favour of opening Croke Park the "Tax Payers" money argument is a pile of ****e.I'm a tax payer i don't frequent lansdowne rd so i quiet happy for my money to be invested in Croke Park as opposed to Lansdowne Rd.The Gaa has more members(tax payers) in this country than either the fai or the irfu so how people constantly trot out this argument, amazes me altogether !.

Healio

Lump wrote:

Who gives a ****... It's a pitch. Like a plot of grass. No different then anyother ground. Only bigger.

John

For a couple of million, the ***** can play in my backgarden.

Guy:Incognito

coolhandluke wrote:

The Gaa has more members(tax payers) in this country than either the fai or the irfu so how people constantly trot out this argument, amazes me altogether !.

Do you have figures to back that up?I'm not saying your wrong, but personally speaking I know 2-3 people ( 1 a dublin senior footballer, and the only 1 I would consider a regular player) who play GAA sports in any regularity, whereas I know about 50- 60 who play football fairly regularly ( once a week or more). Obviously the same doesnt apply to everyone, that's why I ask.

BlitzKrieg

Whenever this debate comes up (gonna be alot more after this amendment) i always think that people grab the wrong end of the stick.

What about the poor english. They have been robbed of all of their national sports. Rugby, football and cricket are all international sports and are played better outside england then in it. Helps explain the attitude of some of its supporters.

So nationlists with a chip on your shoulders embrace the amendment all well knowing that you are in fact washing out elements of the British nationality by embracing these sports as what they have become International Sports of the world...and not english sports.


Everyone else like me. Just be glad that (if i am right in remembering croke park is substantially bigger) more tickets will be available for the six nation matches over the next 2-3 years.

condra

4 words - get over it you pack of feckin bigots

Lump

Glad to see you can count.

John

passive

we'll assume "you pack of feckin" was optional...

Sarky

I just read the thread in the GAA forum. The no camp provided me with the best laugh I've had in ages.

It's about damn time something like this happened.

Stephen

4Xcut wrote:

may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation.

You're full of utter sh1t. Well done.

4Xcut wrote:

Its a piece of cloth with colours on it, who cares if its green, white and gold or red white and blue. Its a big bit of land with people and trees and roads,etc. who cares if its called Ireland or the British commonwealth of Ireland. Everything is just objects but they have meaning

By the way, the flag is green, white and orange, not gold.
See article 7 of the constitution if you don't believe me.
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.htm

Töpher

While I can see the arguments from the No camp, although I may not agree with them, I must ask one question to those saying it will destroy our culture:

Would watching 40,000 Irish people travel to Great Britain to watch The Republic of Ireland soccer team, or Ireland rugby team, not be more detrimental to a culture and national pride?

ExoduS 18.11

4Xcut wrote:

The opening of Croker to the foreign games? Ok screw the economics of it, the government will squander the extra money they make on a new jet or a pay rise or something. It is one of the few things left that represent irish culture. I'm in no way anti-progress and of course landsdowne should be upgraded but a foreign game cannot be permitted to ruin yet another aspect of our culture. may i remind you that if you open our stadium then you might aswell cr*p on the flag and p1$$ on the very notion of being irish and sign your citizenship over to a different nation. We cannot destroy our own culture, there are enough other countries to do that *cough*american influence*cough*

Out of all the mental homes in all the towns.... he had to walk out of his

Dempsey

I think Croke Park should only be open to Soccer and Rugby in only certain cases like hosting major events(World/European Cup Finals, Champions League Finals Rugby World Cups) and the situation the IRFU/FAI find themselves with the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. Once lansdowne is finished, Rugby and Soccer shouldn't be played there unless it benefits the Country. If Rugby and Soccer were to be played outside the country, I would be fairly pissed off.

Croke Park is idle for most of the year and sports have become more of a business, this included the GAA. It seems like good sense to hire out an idle stadium to generate money that could be used to develop the GAA further.

The FAI are idiots, as someone said, pissed away millions. They had their chance of building their own Stadium but went in with the Government to get a better stadium and it fell flat on its back. If the FAI built Eircom Park, the IRFU would have used that stadium while they got Lansdowne redeveloped and Rule 42 probably wouldnt have been put under this amount of pressure to be changed.

Ron DMC

Look, for many people, Croker is sacred, a place where they go only a few times over their lifetime, to watch their local team play our native games. This is going to ruin that, as the stadium is no longer exclusive. It's like letting the queen buy a holiday house in Connemara. It just shouldn't have happened. TBH i'm getting far too pissed off arguing about this all the time so this is my final post on the issue (unless i change my mind). Just accept it that the change that has been brought in is going to change the atmosphere of the stadium forever. And when it's lost it can never again be regained.

Dempsey

Ronny Mitchell wrote:

Look, for many people, Croker is sacred, a place where they go only a few times over their lifetime, to watch their local team play our native games. This is going to ruin that, as the stadium is no longer exclusive. It's like letting the queen buy a holiday house in Connemara. It just shouldn't have happened. TBH i'm getting far too pissed off arguing about this all the time so this is my final post on the issue (unless i change my mind). Just accept it that the change that has been brought in is going to change the atmosphere of the stadium forever. And when it's lost it can never again be regained.

American Football, Boxing, Special Olympics have all been there, so it lost its exclusiveness along time ago. They didnt have the protests that Soccer & Rugby are getting so whats the problem?