Too many bicycles are being stolen

Metrobest

Interesting to read in today's Irish Times that bicycle theft has proliferated in the last year. It is up by a huge percent, especially in the last few months. That's only theft that people report to the Gardai Siochana. Plenty of bike-theft goes unreported. My question is, what, if anything, are the authorities doing to stop bike thieves? More could be done, that's for sure.

BrianD

What can be done? We would need for info on where these bikes are being nicked from - is it a general increase or is from specific places e.g. the home or street. Bear in mind that very every person who has their bike stolen there is another happy to buy it from the thief "no questions asked".

seamus

You'd be surprised how much bicycle theft takes place around a person's home. Certainly CCTV cameras would help reduce it (ever see all the motorbikes parked under the cameras on Grafton St during the day?), but more often than not, it's people's own lax security that lets them down. How many people do you know had a bike stolen when they "just popped into shop for 30 seconds" or when someone left their hall door open, or they were too lazy to put it in the shed, and left it in the back garden.

The only real thing that could be done is to create a national bicycle register, whereby each bicycle must have a registration tag. Of course this would depend on two things - The cyclist lobby accepting that they would have to pay tax to use their form of transport, and the Gardai actually giving a **** about cyclists.

DubTony

BrianD wrote:

.... We would need for info on where these bikes are being nicked from - is it a general increase or is from specific places e.g. the home or street.

And I thought that all stolen bikes had been safely locked up in the shed.

Tony

enterprise

What do the Guards do? f*** all, that what they do.

My bike was nicked from the lock up in my apartment complex last year. The skangers busted down the door to it and helped themselves to about 4 bikes, mine included all of which were locked.

Guards came and took fingerprints but I never heard back from them.

krinpit

seamus wrote:

more often than not, it's people's own lax security that lets them down. How many people do you know had a bike stolen when they "just popped into shop for 30 seconds" or when someone left their hall door open, or they were too lazy to put it in the shed, and left it in the back garden.

Agreed. If you have your bike well harnessed to a decent railing with a couple of locks in the right places, it's unlikely that your bike is going to be stolen.

However, if it is left overnight the chances of it getting vandalised are pretty high.

jman0

seamus wrote:

You'd be surprised how much bicycle theft takes place around a person's home. Certainly CCTV cameras would help reduce it (ever see all the motorbikes parked under the cameras on Grafton St during the day?), but more often than not, it's people's own lax security that lets them down. How many people do you know had a bike stolen when they "just popped into shop for 30 seconds" or when someone left their hall door open, or they were too lazy to put it in the shed, and left it in the back garden.

The only real thing that could be done is to create a national bicycle register, whereby each bicycle must have a registration tag. Of course this would depend on two things - The cyclist lobby accepting that they would have to pay tax to use their form of transport, and the Gardai actually giving a **** about cyclists.

What makes you say it's a person's own lax security?
I had 2 locks on my bike when it was robbed, in public. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=223219

I still cycle-commute today but have resigned myself to using a sh!tty bike that i don't believe a thief would take interest in. I've learned not to trust anything of value with the general public.
I'd accept a national bike register but seriously, it's not gonna make a bit of difference. The powers that be do not care for a bicycle's value.
The gards are hardly going to randomly check bicycle's serial numbers to see if their being ridden by the legal owner. Same with cars.
Personally i think also that bike shops should inform people that those thick looking bike locks provide no real protection from say, a common bolt cutters.
The general public also do not care if they see someone stealing a bike.
A saw a video demonstrating public apathy in this regard: Some lads in New York would chain their bike in places like Times Sqaure and then walk up with a hack saw, or bolt cutters and "steal" their bike in broad daylight. They got a couple looks but nobody approached them.

Besides theft there is another problem; the general public vandalize bicycles.
But i've never heard of anyone up in court for it.

jman0

krinpit wrote:

Agreed. If you have your bike well harnessed to a decent railing with a couple of locks in the right places, it's unlikely that your bike is going to be stolen

100% rubbish.
Although by "right places" maybe you mean...Fort Knox

krinpit

jman0 wrote:

100% rubbish.
Although by "right places" maybe you mean...Fort Knox

I've just taken a look at the two locks you had on your bike.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360015430
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360009024

Aparantly these guys don't go for bikes that have a U-lock that is accompanied by a second lock.

By "right places" I mean through the frame of the bike, rather than just through the wheel.

seamus

jman0 wrote:

What makes you say it's a person's own lax security?

In general. Of all the people I've known to have bikes stolen, only two of them had locks broken, and that was because they were particularly good bikes. They're by far in the minority in terms of types of theft.

It is a pity that good bikes can't be left in the open, but the nature of bikes makes them easier steals than say a Porsche or a Merc. It's also difficult, if not impossible to spot a stolen bike, since there's no register, and they can be brought into the scumbag's shed, and disappear from sight.

Datatagging wouldn't be that useful as you need to recover the bike for that to work.

Are there any cheap and reliable GPS systems available for bicycles?

krinpit

seamus wrote:

Are there any cheap and reliable GPS systems available for bicycles?

Surely the GPS system on the stolen bike could just be destroyed by the thief?

jman0

krinpit wrote:

I've just taken a look at the two locks you had on your bike.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360015430
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360009024

Aparantly these guys don't go for bikes that have a U-lock that is accompanied by a second lock.

By "right places" I mean through the frame of the bike, rather than just through the wheel.

Krinpit, i put both my locks thru the frame obviously, and both wheels since they were quick release.
The famous "U" lock your onabout has been rendered a bit of joke once it was discovered that certain makes can be opened with a simple bic pen.

seamus

krinpit wrote:

Surely the GPS system on the stolen bike could just be destroyed by the thief?

Well, it would have to be specially inserted into the frame, similar to a datatag. The thief would need specialised equipment to find out that the thing is there, never mind get their hands on it

krinpit

jman0 wrote:

The famous "U" lock your onabout has been rendered a bit of joke once it was discovered that certain makes can be opened with a simple bic pen.

Certain makes?

Trojan

jman0 wrote:

The famous "U" lock your onabout has been rendered a bit of joke once it was discovered that certain makes can be opened with a simple bic pen.

Not so! I recently received my replacement U lock from Kryptonite which is 100% bic proof!

My other (O'Connell St.) lock is this:

Not one to carry around every day, but useful for those times I really need to lock up for several hours in town. Plus the U lock, of course.

jman0

krinpit wrote:

Certain makes?

Yes, the globally renowned Kryptonite. One of the largest manufacturers of bike locks
http://www.engadget.com/entry/7796925370303347/

But if you knew about bike locks and bike security, you'd have heard of this by now.

murphaph

seamus wrote:

The thief would need specialised equipment to find out that the thing is there, never mind get their hands on it

Hmmm, he or she could just steal such equipment-it's their job man

jman0

Trojan wrote:

Not so! I recently received my replacement U lock from Kryptonite which is 100% bic proof!

My other (O'Connell St.) lock is this:

Not one to carry around every day, but useful for those times I really need to lock up for several hours in town. Plus the U lock, of course.

very cool, but still that kryptonite U lock is a joke, the other poster was advocating their usage. I was trying to set the record straight.
Your replacement lock is not a U lock, but a chain.
Do you know what hardness rating the steel is?

Trojan

Actually, ALL tubular-keyed locks are vulnerable to this type of attack. Kryptonite have been the most highly publicised, but many, many other brands are in the same boat.

But none of the other brands have replaced all their customers locks for free.

http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?sort_by=status&tracknums_displayed=1&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&loc=en_GB&InquiryNumber1=1ZR047226662286907&track.x=0&track.y=0

the_syco

seamus wrote:

The only real thing that could be done is to create a national bicycle register

There is, its optional, and most people don't bother anymore, as there's no point really, as they don't know about it, or couldn't be arsed "why would I need it; my bike will never get nicked".

=-=

Personally, I use the U lock. I leave it in "good" area's, ie; in front of the shop, etc, locked. If I'm going somewhere dodgy, I bring the bike into the house with me, or I don't bring it.

Never had a bike stolen from me.

magpie

Get insurance for your fancy bike or get a cheap bike for €35 from buy and sell that you don't care if it gets nicked. Problem solved.

Bikes are so cheap its like complaining that shoes wear out TBH. Just factor in getting a new one every 6 mths into your commuting 'budget'.

I remember in school guys used to come round with a van and empty the entire contents of the bike shed; about 100 bikes, at a go. Its not like this is a new problem.

Trojan

magpie wrote:

Bikes are so cheap its like complaining that shoes wear out TBH.

That's wrong in so many ways. A cheap bike is 400 euros. A midrange is 1000, and highend is somewhere in high 4 figures (if you're a 5 figure guy your Team Manager is probably supplying a bike for you).

If you want to spend 35 euros on a disposable bike, think of the single blade disposable bic razors. Now imagine using the same one over and over.

magpie

If I spent €1000 on a bike I wouldn't bring it into town, end of story. I'd keep it under a museum case with 24 hr security. Then again if I had €1000 to blow on a bicycle I probably wouldn't give a f uck what happened to it, as I would have more money than sense.

This is where I purchased my bike http://www.buyandsell.ie/scripts/lootsite.dll?MfcISAPICommand=Search&FirstClass=1000000&LastClass=9269999&query=gents+bike&Location=1-3&Option=0&dbVersion=0
, then again I use it to cycle from a to b in a city, not enter the Tour de France.

Trojan

jman0 wrote:

still that kryptonite U lock is a joke, the other poster was advocating their usage. I was trying to set the record straight.

If anyone has a vulnerable tubular style key send the lock back to Kryptonite for free replacement. There is nothing conceptually wrong with Kryptonite U lock design or materials (in fact, they're one of the best on the market). The problem was with the tubular locking mechanism and has been fixed. FIXED. Get it?

See www.KryptoniteLock.com for details on the replacement programme. I have done so, and received my replacement. So have hundreds of other people.

http://www.dubman.com/spooky/me/default.asp?entry=0412071523
http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/chrisg/?anchor=kryptonite_deliver_as_promised
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4753

I'm strongly defending Kryptonite because a) they had a problem, b) they admitted it, c) they immediately fixed it for free.

There are a lot of lock companies out there who have not even admitted to it, and continue selling bad locks.

jman0

magpie wrote:

If I spent €1000 on a bike I wouldn't bring it into town, end of story. I'd keep it under a museum case with 24 hr security. Then again if I had €1000 to blow on a bicycle I probably wouldn't give a f uck what happened to it, as I would have more money than sense.

This is where I purchased my bike http://www.buyandsell.ie/scripts/lootsite.dll?MfcISAPICommand=Search&FirstClass=1000000&LastClass=9269999&query=gents+bike&Location=1-3&Option=0&dbVersion=0
, then again I use it to cycle from a to b in a city, not enter the Tour de France.

I'm not sure why you seem to have a certain hostility towards expensive bikes. But you obviously have never experienced the pleasure of cycling one!

Conversely i would rather scrub cheap bikes off the market because they pollute the place in more ways than one. Unfortunately while i may have a quality bike, the behavior of the general public has seen to it that i cannot cycle it regularly (at least would not dare chain it up anywhere in public).

comanche

heard something about all u-locks being openable by a car jack? Just wind it up and the lock pops open... anyone know how true this is?

Trojan

comanche wrote:

heard something about all u-locks being openable by a car jack? Just wind it up and the lock pops open... anyone know how true this is?

Sure, some u-locks can certainly be opened with a jack. Some cheaper ones are brittle metal and just snap, some have badly designed "feet" (part that engages with the crosstube).

I don't know if it's true to say "all" - I believe some of the high end (probably $100+) are not breakable in this way. It is one of the tests used in awarding ratings like Sold Secure.

How to avoid this problem:

- Fill the space. This means putting the seat tube (frame), back wheel, and detached front wheel, as well as the post you're attaching to, inside the U.

- Buy the smallest (not thinnest) lock that will do the job. E.g. Evolution 2000 Mini.

- Use a second, different type, lock in addition to the u-lock. E.g. a strong armoured cable or chain. (You should generally always use 2 locks of differing types in any case - more tools needed to break em).

Metrobest

U-Locks are Useless! I know this from Amsterdam where, if you only have one U-Lock on your bike, it will be stolen within hours. Most bikes in Dublin are stolen because the owner didn't invest in a proper lock. And the bike should always be locked to an immovable object. The gaurds should have a database of stolen bikes, complete with serial numbers. A lot of stolen bikes turn up again.

Another thing that could free up bike parking spaces. Dublin's bike stands are full of vandalised 'skeleton' bikes. It's a disgrace. No bike should remain unattended for more than three days; it should be removed to a 'holding centre' and if not claimed within three months, sent to Africa. A lot of bikes get stolen when the owner can't find a place to park it.

Finally, there needs to be a huge clampdown on bicycle vandalism. I think it is a vile crime, to just for the sake of it kick someone's bike, or ruin a tyre. Cars drivers can also be guilty of doing 'hit and runs'.

Trojan

Metrobest wrote:

U-Locks are Useless!

They're crap! Almost as useless as sweeping generalisations even!

U-locks are the best lock at a certain price-weight-convenience point. You're much better off with a low end u-lock than cable lock.

Don't diss the U

http://www.bicyclesource.com/bike/theft/choosing-a-lock.shtml

jman0

Trojan wrote:

They're crap! Almost as useless as sweeping generalisations even!
U-locks are the best lock at a certain price-weight-convenience point. You're much better off with a low end u-lock than cable lock.
Don't diss the U
http://www.bicyclesource.com/bike/theft/choosing-a-lock.shtml

Maybe you're in the business of selling U locks, but i think your statment is untrue. The quality of any lock imo, whether it be chain, or U is the hardness rating of the metal.
Kryptonite's Evolution states:
"13 mm Through-hardened Kryptonium TM Steel shackle resists bolt cutters and leverage attacks"
Sounds nice, but they don't state the hardness rating of this metal, so i will have to reserve judgment. But i certainly wouldn't promote it because if their metal had a really high rating, that might be something they'd boast about.
Chains are easier to peg in this regard because a lot of chain manufacturers state the hardness rating of it. I'm not sure if this is a requirement by law, although it should be imo.
My understanding that Grade 70, 80 and 100 chains are impossible to cut with a bolt cutters.
http://www.nacm.info/Downloads/NACM%20_Welded_Specs.pdf

Bolt cutters are not the only attack a bike lock may suffer. Freezing the metal with chemical is another technique, and obviously the harder the metal, the easier it may be to shatter it.
Also, I've heard of people with super locks on their bikes finding that somebody has put GLUE inside the keyhole, thereby preventing the owner from unlocking it. Thief then returns at night with better equipment to steal it.

Metrobest

Trojan wrote:

They're crap! Almost as useless as sweeping generalisations even!

Don't diss the U

http://www.bicyclesource.com/bike/theft/choosing-a-lock.shtml

Sorry but I've had a bike stolen with a u-lock in Dublin; it was a harsh lesson. I think the bog-standard u-locks they are inferior. If you're going to pay top of the range prices - and you should! - then why not invest in a proper, strong chain lock like the Krypto?! In Amsterdam, your bike would not last a day if a u-lock was on it. The junkies are on the prowl for bikes with u-locks because they are so easy to steal! This fuels a thriving market in stolen bikes which the junkies sell for €10. The same thing going to happen in Dublin if people don't get better locks.

Trojan

jman0 wrote:

Maybe you're in the business of selling U locks, but i think your statment is untrue.

No, I don't have any such dealings. I do cycle commute. Here, I am in the business of pointing out the many erroneous and sweeping general statements people have made.

jman0 wrote:

The quality of any lock imo, whether it be chain, or U is the hardness rating of the metal.

Ah, so manufacturing design has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Metrobest wrote:

The junkies are on the prowl for bikes with u-locks because they are so easy to steal! This fuels a thriving market in stolen bikes which the junkies sell for €10. The same thing going to happen in Dublin if people don't get better locks.

Right, so if I buy a 6 euro chain lock my bike will be much better protected than if I have a 30 euro u-lock? The junkie in a drug-crazed state will bypass the chain he can bite through, to get to the u-locked bike? Yes, u-locks are obviously inferior.

--

I'm not attacking you guys personally, but you're saying some things that are just plain wrong. Prefixing them with "imo" doesn't change that.

Trojan

Metrobest wrote:

If you're going to pay top of the range prices - and you should! - then why not invest in a proper, strong chain lock like the Krypto?!

(Thought I better quote this so as to seem reasonable )

I agree with you here, but I would go as far as to say that you should absolutely invest in both types. I refer you to the inestimable Mr. Brown.

Metrobest

I know u-locks are more convenient and all that, but my opinion on this has been shaped by
1. A u-locked bike of mine being stolen
2. The guy in the bike shop telling me that u-locks are dodgy and liable to be picked open quite easily
3. The Dutch police leaving a note on my bike saying that I needed a better lock (than TWO u-locks!) or it would be stolen.

That said, if there is a u-lock that's super-resistant to theft, then by all means people should buy it. But they still shouldn't be surprised if thieves vandalise their bikes whilst trying to prise open the lock!

MrPudding

I got a cycling magazine which did tests on about 20 locks. I went for the magmun ultimate, it's a D lock. They used an angle gringer and a bottle jack to try to open the locks. They work on mine for 15 minutes and were unable to open it. If you want to use a jack to open it it need to be capable of lifting more than 10 tonnes. A ten tonne jack is not something you can carry around without raising suspicioin.

MrP

jman0

Trojan wrote:

Ah, so manufacturing design has absolutely nothing to do with it.

And a chain wins everytime Trojan. By it's very design it has more versatility than a cumbersome U lock.

jman0

MrPudding wrote:

I got a cycling magazine which did tests on about 20 locks. I went for the magmun ultimate, it's a D lock. They used an angle gringer and a bottle jack to try to open the locks. They work on mine for 15 minutes and were unable to open it. If you want to use a jack to open it it need to be capable of lifting more than 10 tonnes. A ten tonne jack is not something you can carry around without raising suspicioin.
MrP

A link would be nice. But i'd personally be wary of this type of thing because a cycling magazine requires sponsorship in the way of adverstising to stay in business; and it's not unheard of to award favorable "reviews" of products that are manufactured by the magazine's advertising clients.

"Bike Locks" are ultimately a marketing niche. At the end of the day a cyclist needs a way to secure their property to protect against thieves, there's lots of ways to do this.
The best chains manufactured may not be found in a cycling magazine, or bike shop, same with locks.
U locks have no other practical use, so are probably not governed by any manufacturing standards a chain does.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=76598
Check out 2 the threads by the poster "mrdy"
You won't be finding that lock in yer bike shop!

oceanclub

krinpit wrote:

Agreed. If you have your bike well harnessed to a decent railing with a couple of locks in the right places, it's unlikely that your bike is going to be stolen.

However, if it is left overnight the chances of it getting vandalised are pretty high.

Yes, and if they vandalise it enough, you might as well get a new bike. I remember leaving mine beside a pub 2 mins walk from home (bad idea). When I got to it, the handlebars and saddle had been nicked. Another time, a wheel was damaged. Replacing all these cost me as much as the original bike. The finale was when the bike got robbed (yes, it was locked) from outside my gym, in full view of CCTV. It really is demoralising.

P.

Victor

oceanclub wrote:

The finale was when the bike got robbed (yes, it was locked) from outside my gym, in full view of CCTV. It really is demoralising.

The irony :rolleyes:

krinpit

oceanclub wrote:

When I got to it, the handlebars and saddle had been nicked. Another time, a wheel was damaged. Replacing all these cost me as much as the original bike. The finale was when the bike got robbed (yes, it was locked) from outside my gym, in full view of CCTV. It really is demoralising.

I can imagine. I'd say your heart just sank when you saw what had happened. What was worse for you, having it vandalised or having it nicked?

dearg_doom

Metrobest wrote:

Finally, there needs to be a huge clampdown on bicycle vandalism. I think it is a vile crime, to just for the sake of it kick someone's bike, or ruin a tyre. Cars drivers can also be guilty of doing 'hit and runs'.

I agree!

I have had two bikes messed up, and turned from useful transportation into a lump of scrap metal. It's the most frustrating thing in the world! At least if they were stolen, they'd be getting some use instead of just rusting on a pole!




Also I lived your stories of the 'dam!! I'd usually have a new puncture every week or so(from drunken cycling amid the tramtracks) so I'd have a choice of fixing the puncture, or 'trading' it in with a fiver for a new bike!! Bless those junkies!!