Parking the car in gear?

dawballz

Well my gf's family(and now my gf) all seem to have this thing about putting the car in (first) gear and leaving the hanbrake down while parking the car.
I was always very much of the impression that the handbrake was there for this. I really can't see why one would put the car in gear. Even if someone forgot the car was in gear and they started it, this could cause damage.
Is there any website or does it say it in the rules of the road which is right/wrong?
What's your opinions?

is_that_so

I saw something on TV a good while back which recommended leaving a car in gear , especially on a hill. The theory is that it provides extra security against rolling. Personally I don't agree with it, particularly if you are parked near something.

Banjo013

Can't remember if there's anything in the rules of the road about this.

I would tend to apply the handbrake and put the car in first gear when parking. I drive an automatic now though, but this is what I did when I had a manual.

It's just a double insurance policy I guess - if the handbrake should fail for whatever reason while parked then the gear will prevent it from rolling away. However the load should normally be held by the handbrake - ie the cars weight should not be resting on the gear.

My dad used to have this trick whereby if it was frosty, he would leave the handbrake unapplied and use the gear to hold the car. Apparently he sometimes found that the frost would cause the brakes to become stuck in whatever position they were in, ie applied. Don't know if anyone else does this !

JohnCleary

Depends entirely on the situation. First of all, whats the quality of your handbrake like? Are you parking at an angle? If im parking on level sufrace I only use the handbrake. If im on a hill I put up the handbrake, THEN put it into gear (3rd usually... Doing this in reverse method is putting strain on the gear cogs)

dawballz

Well they have new cars(2004 and 2004), clio and focus saloon so I dont see why they should fail. They also leave the hbrake down and put it in gear. They tell me this should be done everywhere too, not just on hills or flats...

bazz26

I always park my car with the hand brake on and the car in gear. My drive way is on a small slope so in the event of the hand brake failing at least the car will not roll once it is in gear. Do it all the time without even thinking where ever I park.

This reminds me recently where at work somebody obviously parked their 94 Golf with the hand brake on but not in gear. Anyway whatever happened the hand brake was not engaged properly or failed. The Golf rolled back into 2 stationery cars and caused a bit of damage to itself and the other two cars (one a 05 Merc E-Class). :eek:

Could have been avoided I think if the car was in gear.

leeroybrown

As a matter of habit I always park a car in gear (1st) as it's better to be safe. Why someone wouldn't apply the handbrake (with the possible exception of brakes that stick in frost - and these shouldn't) is beyond me and doesn't fill me with confidence in them. Anyone who owns an older car, or certainly a classic car will probably park it in gear too.

I have driven relatively recent cars where the rear drum brakes do not auto-adjust properly for pad wear thus reducing the grip of the handbrake. This can leave you with the impression that you are fully secure when you're not.

Anyone with an automatic should have a park setting which will apply a brake to the transmission as well as the handbrake.

Also, if my front wheel drive car were hit while parked in gear, it would provide more resistance than if parked by handbrake alone. This might be enough to prevent damage to other vehicles or pedestrians.

MrPudding

dawballz wrote:

Even if someone forgot the car was in gear and they started it, this could cause damage.

You are supposed to check if the car is in gear before you start it, whether you leave it in gear or not. What if someone used the car after you? Or someone was messing?

I always park with the handbrake on and the car in gear. It is just habit now.

MrP

mike65

Always a good idea to turn the wheels against the kerb when parking on a hill.

Mike.

Stephen

I always put my car in 1st gear + handbrake whilst parked.

seamus

When I had one, I never put the car in gear (except on a hill), but I always put the clutch to the floor before starting the engine. Same difference. Except if your clutch has failed.

Our man in Havana

In sanfranciso there are signs ordering you to park at an angle and to apply gear and handbrakes. Signs saying " Risk of runaways" are common.

DubTony

mike65 wrote:

Always a good idea to turn the wheels against the kerb when parking on a hill.

Mike.

In San Fransisco, when parked on a hill, if you don't turn the wheels into the kerb you'll get a ticket (and if you turn the wheels the wrong way. A friend did it).

As for leaving the car in gear, I've always done it; with the handbrake on. Didn't anyone learn to press in the left pedal when starting the car whether it's in gear or not? Can't understand anyone leaving the handbrake off though.

Ever notice on American tv shows how sometimes when a car is parked and the driver gets out the thing rolls for a few inches? Gears in P, handbrake off. Common practice over there. Strange.

Tony

¬zero64

for like "safety" if your car is on even a little slope and your handbrake fails and even a new cars can (i have seen this once with a brand new car and luckily nobody got hurt or killed)
SO WHATS THE DEAL ARE YOU TOO LAZY TO DO IT ITS REALLY EASY IT STOPS THE CAR FROM MOVING EITHER WAY :eek:

DubTony

Holy crap ... see what happens when you go to make the baby's bottles in the middle of a post? You look stupid. OK, no need for comments please.

Tony

AMurphy

Stephen wrote:

I always put my car in 1st gear + handbrake whilst parked.

Same here,
However this one had a clutch switch, so you must have your foot (all the way down) on the clutch to start.
So while I could start it in gear with the foot down ... pressing the clutch reminds me to put it in neutral. All manuals are that way here.
Automatics park in gear. There is a pawl that engages with the the output gear teeth, or some other such mechanism. If you want to check, put it from rev to park while moving and listen for the noise. Best to use the brake also, as if on a steep downhill, the pressure on the pawl can make it difficult to release, cause it is fully loaded down.

Gerry

dawballz, you shouldn't even be on the road if you don't know why this would be a good idea. The compression of the engine provides a lot of resistance to prevent the car rolling. Why the hell wouldn't you check if the car was in gear before starting it? I always put the car in gear before leaving it, its force of habit.

Ivan E

Well certain cars i.e Saabs don't actually allow you to take your keys out unless the car is in reverse. Whether you use the handbrake function or not is up to you. I don't know how long or why exactly they do it but it has been a feature since 1985 at least.

So I can't see it being a bad thing otherwise it would be a bit strange to do it. Saabs are known for their reliability and good build although they are now owned by GM. But since its a long term feature it obviously hasn't caused any issues.

JohnBoy

in paris when parking on the street you're supposed to leave the car in gear with the handbrake off. leaves a little bit of give for bump parking.

in seoul cars park perpendicular to the kerb, then a row of cars double parks outside them parallell to the kerb bumper to bumper but with one space left free.

to get your car out from the inside you put a rock under the wheel of the car to one side and behind and then roll the rest of em out of the way till you have a big enough gap to reverse through. there are bricks left lying around for just this purpose.

craziness

Seth Brundle

handbrakes are controlled via a cable running from the lever to the brake drum assembley at the rear wheels. These cables can fail, break or may simply not be adjusted enough to hold the car sufficiently on a hill.

@ JohnBoy - if parked in gear the car will only move with enough pressure and even then only in the direction of the gear (i.e. reverse or forward). People in Paris often use neither h/b or in gear!

Boggle

Originally Posted by Stephen
I always put my car in 1st gear + handbrake whilst parked.

So would I - even if the handbrake works, I have seen some cars that will still roll unless you have it pulled all the way up. Anyway a backup brake (of sorts) is never any harm...

You are supposed to check if the car is in gear before you start it, whether you leave it in gear or not. What if someone used the car after you? Or someone was messing?

I'd agreee - out of habit the first thing I do when getting into a car is place in neutral and move the stick left to right. (just to be sure loike!) Even then I still use the clutch when starting...

SouperComputer

I usually put it in gear, lock the steering turned and apply the handbrake.

aside from the safety factor, it makes stealing the car a little harder without making some noise.

putting it in gear only is silly, compression is fine and dandy, but it leaks over time. Steep enough gradient would see you car sitting one someone elses bumper which is embarrassing to say the least!

fornow

this doesnt really relate, but i know my family in germany do it.

in countries where it gets very told in winter they will leave it in gear with the handbreak off, otherwise the handbreak will freeze overnight and you would be able to release it.

Dades

A mate of mine climbed into his car directly after passing the NCT, and his 3 series promptly jumped into a wall when he started the engine.

Needless to say the NCT tester HAD left it in gear - and my mate would never leave the car in gear.

He gave them yards of abuse, but they just were like, "Why did you start your car in gear?"

Hilarious.

(p.s. I habitually park in gear)

dawballz

Gerry wrote:

dawballz, you shouldn't even be on the road if you don't know why this would be a good idea. The compression of the engine provides a lot of resistance to prevent the car rolling. Why the hell wouldn't you check if the car was in gear before starting it? I always put the car in gear before leaving it, its force of habit.

Don't worry, I'm not on the road, yet, but I did drive a bike for over a year(and about 35,000 KM) without any hassle whatsoever, so I do think I should be on the road, and a simple thing like not putting a car in gear while parking shouldn't decide whether or not I should be on the road now should it? So don't talk silly nonsense.

The thing I really couldn't understand is why they would leave it in gear with the handbrake off(Unless it was very cold out...and I have heard this before too).
I can see about putting it in gear and putting the hbrake on, but not leaving it off.

ando

bazz26 wrote:

Do it all the time without even thinking where ever I park.

ditto

OLDYELLAR

Im getting lessons at the minute and the guy always makes me put it in neutral and handbrake up when im parking after we come back off a lesson.
Is that wrong ?Im only learning so i only know what he tells me like , what are ya meant to do?Im confused now,.

peasant

On starting a car:
It is always a good idea to press the clutch when starting the engine, as even when your car is in neutral the starter will not only have to crank the engine, but also the whole gearbox, unless you press the clutch.
Particularly so, when it's freezing outside and all the oils become less viscous.

Victor

So what do they think the hand brake is for?

leeroybrown

OLDYELLAR wrote:

Im getting lessons at the minute and the guy always makes me put it in neutral and handbrake up when im parking after we come back off a lesson.

Driving instructors will always instruct you to do whatever will be least objectionable to a driving tester and is least likely to result in you making an error.

Capt'n Midnight

I've heard of diesels left in gear, getting rear ended before the engine is cold and starting up. Happened to a truck in Wicklow town a good while back if I'm not mistaken, took out a line of cars..

The only reason I can think of for not using the handbrake is the case of ice forming on the brakes, ie. wet AND cold. Sounds like they are using a exceptional case everyday. Try pushing a car in first , now try it with the hand brake on - there should be a slight difference.

Isn't it called a "parking brake" across the pond.

cormie

Ok, this is all news to me! Like OldYellar, I was also told to park in neutral. I understand what your all saying about cold weather and parking in gears, what gear should I park in? Someone mentioned 3rd, another mentioned Saab cars make you park in reverse. Which is best? I always kick the clutch in and check to see if in neutral by swaying left to right before I start too so it's a habit I'm in and shouldn't be a problem adapting to leaving it in gear.

AMurphy

DubTony wrote:

In San Fransisco, when parked on a hill, if you don't turn the wheels into the kerb you'll get a ticket (and if you turn the wheels the wrong way. A friend did it).

As for leaving the car in gear, I've always done it; with the handbrake on. Didn't anyone learn to press in the left pedal when starting the car whether it's in gear or not? Can't understand anyone leaving the handbrake off though.

Ever notice on American tv shows how sometimes when a car is parked and the driver gets out the thing rolls for a few inches? Gears in P, handbrake off. Common practice over there. Strange.

Tony

Very observant ( I have a story, but another day.)

And if you park on the "wrong" (facing against the flow) side of the street, you'll get a ticket for parking "too far from the kerb", ie your "correct" kerb is now 20" odd feet away.

AMurphy

The Atheist wrote:

A mate of mine climbed into his car directly after passing the NCT, and his 3 series promptly jumped into a wall when he started the engine.

You go to any garage here with a stick-shift and on collection you will find it with the keys in the ignition and in gear.
Or automatic, in PARK.

No Park/hand brake applied in either case.

AMurphy

kbannon wrote:

handbrakes are controlled via a cable running from the lever to the brake drum assembley at the rear wheels. These cables can fail, break or may simply not be adjusted enough to hold the car sufficiently on a hill.

.....QUOTE]

Hmmmmm..... Maybe if it is pre 1970. With modern cars, self adjusting brakes, teflon coated cables, Stainless Cables, etc. The likelyhood of a failure are.... about nil.

However, leaky rear cyls lubricating the brake, worn/broken ratchets may be a problem.

AMurphy

JohnBoy wrote:

......
in seoul cars park perpendicular to the kerb, then a row of cars double parks outside them parallell to the kerb bumper to bumper but with one space left free.

.......

craziness

Seoul, Korea?.
Been there but not seen it practiced, seen a lot of other craziness there though, it's kinda fun/odd escorting a lady who would buy her undies from a stall in the street, in my presence, but thought parting with a hug was "too demonstrative" for Seoul society, great people.
Nonetheless, it's a much better idea than the phuckers in Kerry, (CastleIsland), where they used to dbl park, lock and take the key with them, hence everyone parked in the middle of the street. (Give me a H1, a beater truck, a sharp knife or a steel bar to work off some frustration on a dbl parked car)
Longford was another place I encountered the same practice.

I do remember having to deal with such a car on one occasion, but the mad dog in the drivers seat was the problem, so I had to use the handle of a shovel to knock it into neutral/out of gear etc..... car was open.

btw, most Auto Boxes will not allow you remove the key if the lever is not in PARK and most will not allow you move from PARK if your foot is not firmly on the brake.
Remember the old Audi 5000 Sudden Acceleration Syndrome (SAS)

Gerry

AMurphy wrote:

Very observant ( I have a story, but another day.)

And if you park on the "wrong" (facing against the flow) side of the street, you'll get a ticket for parking "too far from the kerb", ie your "correct" kerb is now 20" odd feet away.

Even better, in SF, on the day before I sold the car, I was moving the car across the street to avoid a ticket during street cleaning. I did a quick u turn and parked on the other side. But, it was a one way, and I then got a ticket for having the car facing the wrong way, while parked! The ****ers.

SouperComputer

anbody see the story in the indo yesteday about the lady who was run over & killed by her own car?

it wouldnt start for her, so she left her keys in the ignition, ignition turned off. Popped the bonnet and gave the starter a few thumps with a hammer. The car took off, mounted the kerb, ran her over, dragged her for a few blocks and killed her.

Turned out that the handbrake was NW and was off. The car was left in gear and a problem with the igntion meant that the starter was live even though the ignition was off.

Police gather that the car leaped forward and she grabbed the throttle in efforts to rebalance herself.

very freaky!

AMurphy

Gerry wrote:

Even better, in SF, on the day before I sold the car, I was moving the car across the street to avoid a ticket during street cleaning. I did a quick u turn and parked on the other side. But, it was a one way, and I then got a ticket for having the car facing the wrong way, while parked! The ****ers.

Sounds like you were the SFPD favorite customer.

stratos

Don't forget turn those wheels into the kerb on a hill.

OLDYELLAR

So whats the correct thing to do ?Park in neutral or in gear?

AMurphy

stratos wrote:

Don't forget turn those wheels into the kerb on a hill.

So what is the recommendation when you park across the slope, also a SF practice. Thus one door needs power hydraulics to open it and the other needs a strong arm to keep it from dinging the next parked car.

LoneGunM@n

I don't know that the correct thing to do is, but I always park the car with the handbrake on & in first gear!!

I do it in all cars I drive ... which p!sses the other half off, 'cause she doesn't put in gear & she forgets that I was the last person to drive her car, so she nearly always bunny hops into the car in front

LoneGunM@n

I remember one time my dad had parked his car on the hill across the road from McDonalds in Rathmines. I stayed in the car. I knocked the car out of gear [he'd left the handbrake off] & it started rolling backwards towards the car behind. I jumped into the driver's seat & stood on the brake till he came back [bear in mind I was about 11] .... he's never forgotten the handbrake since!

AMurphy

Friend in Blarney had her car pop out of gear, reverse down a steep driveway and in over/through the fence of the opposite neighbor. Demolished car.

leeroybrown

AMurphy wrote:

Hmmmmm..... Maybe if it is pre 1970. With modern cars, self adjusting brakes, teflon coated cables, Stainless Cables, etc. The likelyhood of a failure are.... about nil.

I've seen relatively recent self adjusting drum brakes make a mess of the job,,,

OLDYELLAR wrote:

So whats the correct thing to do ?Park in neutral or in gear?

It's a matter of personal preference tbh. Ask your instructor the reasons (s)he advocates parking in neutral.

beer enigma

dawballz wrote:

Well my gf's family(and now my gf) all seem to have this thing about putting the car in (first) gear and leaving the hanbrake down while parking the car.
I was always very much of the impression that the handbrake was there for this. I really can't see why one would put the car in gear. Even if someone forgot the car was in gear and they started it, this could cause damage.
Is there any website or does it say it in the rules of the road which is right/wrong?
What's your opinions?

Aaaaaaargh - just seen this thread which is particularly relevant today as my Wife is in the same habit (we're in Cork - seems to be a Cork thing) . Anyway, match on at Christy Ring Park, so my usual spot in the road is blocked....wifey dutifully pulls her car back in the drive so she can get my beloved Alfa 156 in the driveway.....GUESS WHAT, she leaves it in gear.

Driveway fits two cars very snuggly.....I get in this morning, turn key....SMACK - Alfa bumpers do not like Renault Scenics......Her Scenic is ok, few scratches, my Alfa bumper is in bits.....

DO NOT LEAVE A CAR IN GEAR...Its dangerous & COSTLY - leave the parking to the handbrake

John R

Having shared cars and work vehicles for years on and off I always depress the clutch before starting. You can always forget to check the gear the odd time but if you get in the habit of depressing the clutch there is no danger of hopping into whatever is infront/behind you.

Balfa

AMurphy wrote:

So what is the recommendation when you park across the slope, also a SF practice.

Park at a slight angle in the parking space, so that whatever end of the car (hopefully the rear) is closest the kerb is slightly downhill of the other end. Preferably back the car all the way in so that the wheels are resting against the kerb (difficult with low cars, i know, especially with SF's dodgy kerbs) and turn the front wheels uphill.

In a manual, i usually just use the handbrake. I'll put the car in reverse (not third!!) as well if it's on a significant slope. Reverse is best because it's the shortest gear and so for the car to roll at a given speed, the engine must be turning faster and hence with more force. There's no reason whatsoever not to use the handbrake, though. I've never actually seen one freeze, and if it does, so be it, you're better being late for work once than having to pay to repair your car and two or three others.

As for starting, i always check the gear is in neutral and use the clutch. The reason for this is not only a double measure against lurching forward, but also it puts less strain on the starter motor because it doesn't have to turn half the clutch assembly and the drive gear in addition to the crankshaft.

Unfortunately since moving to america and sharing the wife's automatic, i only put the transmission in park, and no longer use the handbrake (unless on an incline), because she coudn't get used to disengaging the handbrake every time she drove it.

When it comes to liability, it's always going to be whoever lurched into the car in front, not the person that left the car in gear last time it was used.

fletch

As I force of habit I always press the clutch when I start the car.....

SouperComputer

fletch wrote:

As I force of habit I always press the clutch when I start the car.....

me too, when I was a kid I had a fiat ritmo that was a very fussy starter. Taking the load of the gearbox off seemed to help it kick, so the habit stuck with me.