Anybody here live in Dublin and between 14 and 16?

Edgehead

I am 14 and am looking to meet another Gay/Bisexual guy as I would like to find out more about myself. Can anybody here help me?

Boston

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=105620

Victor

Do look at this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=105620

AFAIK there is some sort of GLB social group for teenagers. I'm sure the lads will ahve the details.

Edgehead

I amn't going to meet up in a place I don't feel safe in and I will talk to this person and get to know them first.

Boston

Bit slow to trust anyone asking to meet underage children over the internet, and the link was posted less for your benefit and more for the benifit of anyone who might wish to met up with you. But http://www.belongto.org/ is a Gay youth group thing, will full adult supervision, their in the center of town and basically do trips and stuff in a non threating environment. theres at least one ex member that browses this forum, amybe he can offer some advice.

Edgehead

Sorry if that came off a little weird. I am being completely honest about my age and I can understand why you have problems beleiving me. But trust me I hate "predators" and can fully understand your skepticalness

Boston

It's just there has been an incident(probably more then one) of someone trying to solicit an underage person on this forum in the past. The person was banned out right, and then from the site, this is not the best place for looking to meet up with people of your age group, given the age of your average reader. Belongto is ment to be very good for providing a safe environment for young people, I'd definitely advise going there. As far as i can tell it's a reasonably small group of people, so less intimidating. Here their booklet,

http://www.belongto.org/articles/posterbooklet.php

ixoy

I'd recommend you try the likes of belongto. They're trained to deal with all types of situations, people, and circumstances and will be in the best position for you to get to know more about being LGB and meeting people in the same situations.

memphis

what about gaydar or is that only for adults?
I can't say I've used it to be honest!

damien

Try Faceparty or Mogenic. I'd strogly advise not using Gaydar until you are over 18.

LegacyUser

I was amazed to read the message from the 14 yr old. But it gives me hope. There is an assumption in Ireland that gay people dont exist under 18 and that boys under 18 do not have sexual feelings and want to VOLUNTARILY act on them. I am not a predator, but i am gay and prefer younger lads. That does NOT mean that I would ever force myself on any guy. But if a boy is aware of his sexuality and is consenting then i do not know why the "do gooders" cannot leave it between the two people involved.

Stark

Unreg boy fan

Aren't guys like you required to "register" by law?

How old are you?

Hmm_Messiah

Can't Unreg Boy Fan POst be removed?

It at lets hint at the dangers other posters were advising against.

And it's transparently offensive (to me anyways)

14 yr old might be sexual, mature etc etc, but there will always be a legal and moral and just unhealthy imbalance between an older person and a minor in ANY sexual situation.

dub45

Unreg Boy Fan wrote:

I was amazed to read the message from the 14 yr old. But it gives me hope. There is an assumption in Ireland that gay people dont exist under 18 and that boys under 18 do not have sexual feelings and want to VOLUNTARILY act on them. I am not a predator, but i am gay and prefer younger lads. That does NOT mean that I would ever force myself on any guy. But if a boy is aware of his sexuality and is consenting then i do not know why the "do gooders" cannot leave it between the two people involved.

Why should this post give you hope? Everybody knows that teenagers have sexual feelings. There is nothing in his post to suggest that the person concerned wants to have sex with anyone. He simply wants to meet someone to discover more about himself thats all and is brave enough to try and take that step - the rest you are reading into it. The reason people here are concerned about a post like yours is that they realise that there is a very very big difference between being 'consenting' as you put it and being ready in a mature sense.

A young person gay or straight is entitled to explore and discover their own self and sexuality in their own time and without any pressure. Society takes a view that they are entitled to protection during that period and thats why the law is there.

I have to say also that I find your use of the word 'boy' very disquieting.

swiss

Can't Unreg Boy Fan POst be removed?

Actually, it might be best to leave it there as a warning that people like him exist out there. I agree with dub45, a boy may be consenting to a sexual act, but that does not mean he is ready either emotionally or sexually. The attempt to rationalise it as a consenting act is therefore meaningless.

azezil

swiss wrote:

Actually, it might be best to leave it there as a warning that people like him exist out there. I agree with dub45, a boy may be consenting to a sexual act, but that does not mean he is ready either emotionally or sexually. The attempt to rationalise it as a consenting act is therefore meaningless.

hear hear!

newgrange

Child abusers always trot out the 'aware of their own sexuality and consenting' line. They convince themselves that the child 'wanted' sexual contact, even initiated it. 'Unreg boy fan' is an example of the sleazy underbelly our 'community' has. I agree with leaving his post there, to show what sort of weirdos are out there.

To the original poster, you will have many feelings at 14, for both boys, girls, and for no-one at all - it does not mean you are gay, it does not mean you are straight - it means you are 14.

I would recommend Belong2, as it is a guaranteed safe space. You might think you get to know someone online, but you really don't know anything about them. Am I a 16 yr old boy if I tell you I am and send you a photo of 'myself'?

Boston

It is very easy to manipulate a child. Especially if their confused and unsure of themselves. A confident adult who seems to "get them" can be very aluring. It equilvant to spiking someone's drink and having sex with them. Look at the attitude that the best way to explore your sexuallity is to have sex, bollix. You're not doing these kids a favour, you most likely missing them up permenently.

Hmm_Messiah

swiss wrote:

Actually, it might be best to leave it there as a warning that people like him exist out there. I agree with dub45, a boy may be consenting to a sexual act, but that does not mean he is ready either emotionally or sexually. The attempt to rationalise it as a consenting act is therefore meaningless.

I understand the argument for leaving it. I am just aware any age can read the posts and possibly some 14yr old will see it as someone "at last understanding him" in a way other adults don't. The condemnation might be seen as just from those "who don't understand"

FranknFurter

Unreg Boy Fan wrote:

I was amazed to read the message from the 14 yr old. But it gives me hope. There is an assumption in Ireland that gay people dont exist under 18 and that boys under 18 do not have sexual feelings and want to VOLUNTARILY act on them. I am not a predator, but i am gay and prefer younger lads. That does NOT mean that I would ever force myself on any guy. But if a boy is aware of his sexuality and is consenting then i do not know why the "do gooders" cannot leave it between the two people involved.

OK,

Let me explain somthing to you.

*I* met a guy like you when *I* was 14.

He said almost verbatim to me, what you said in your post.

At 14 I found him "treating me like an adult" flattering.
At 14, I learnt about manipulation, exploitation, self dilusion and the importance of being aware that I was *not* an adult.

It is a lesson I should never have had to learn at that age, a lesson I was not able to comphrehend completely at that age, nor is any 14 year old, and a lesson that, ultimately almost ruined/ended my life.
Had I not realised, eventually, and with a lot of help, that I was not to blame, for the actions of an adult who was very messed up himself, it would have.

Ya know, he thought he was being totally logical, he thought he was right in his feelings, like you, he believed entirely what his deformed and stunted personality disorder made him believe.
No 14 year old can understand the personality disorder you seem to have, so dont expect them to.

At 28, I have lost FOUR close friends to suicide, two of them, in the last year, all of whom were abused in their early teens, and all under the age of 25, all of whom suffered the consequences of growing up realising that a vital part of their lives had been ended prematurely.......... by somone like you.

Before you do somthing ( I was gonna say "you will regret", but you almost certainly wouldnt "regret" it, your personality disorder prevents you from being able to feel things like regret and compassion towards any other person other than yourself. And that, is why you dont see it as wrong, the part of your personality that decides what is right from what is wrong, does not understand moral and emotional "right and wrong"),....

speak to somone about your opinions. There are many counsellors out there.
=============

And, to the original poster, ................
listen to what newgrange and others said, those are wise words

Originally posted by newgrange..........To the original poster, you will have many feelings at 14, for both boys, girls, and for no-one at all - it does not mean you are gay, it does not mean you are straight - it means you are 14.

That is the best advice you will ever get.

damien

That's definitely post of the month. Well done FranknFurter.

uberwolf

damien.m wrote:

That's definitely post of the month. Well done FranknFurter.

I wouldn't even trivilise it, though I know what you mean.

It is one of the most profound and important things I have read on these Forums.

damien

I think a link to that post or a copy of it in the warning about predators at the top of this forum would be of benefit.

Stark

uberwolf wrote:

I wouldn't even trivilise it, though I know what you mean.

It is one of the most profound and important things I have read on these Forums.

Ditto.

damien.m wrote:

I think a link to that post or a copy of it in the warning about predators at the top of this forum would be of benefit.

Done.

Hmm_Messiah

I think FranknFurter's personal experience may well have the added "reality" to warn young people of those who might harm them. I applaud his sharing that and applaud this forum on being able to make such things known.


Not wishing to take from what he said one thing does come to mind. When we talk of peoples personality, their psychosis or inadequacy, there is a whole world of variance.

While paedophilia might be understood much as described there are also people who are more aware of the consequences and see them as vital to their "motivation". REcounting hurt and pain is only an encouragement and pleasure to them.

Young people need to be aware that there are also more direct, less subtle dangers, and dangerous people out there.

rsynnott

Unreg Boy Fan wrote:

I was amazed to read the message from the 14 yr old. But it gives me hope. There is an assumption in Ireland that gay people dont exist under 18 and that boys under 18 do not have sexual feelings and want to VOLUNTARILY act on them. I am not a predator, but i am gay and prefer younger lads. That does NOT mean that I would ever force myself on any guy. But if a boy is aware of his sexuality and is consenting then i do not know why the "do gooders" cannot leave it between the two people involved.

Gott in Himmel.... This is the problem with allowing guest posting, really. Possibly I'm being a bit harsh, but this sounds very much like paedophile apologism.

ixoy

rsynnott wrote:

Gott in Himmel.... This is the problem with allowing guest posting, really. Possibly I'm being a bit harsh, but this sounds very much like paedophile apologism.

Ah but this guest posting was approved, after a bit of internal debate on the issue. As others have said, it enabled us to counter the arguments often offered up by the likes of Unreg Boy Fan. It's a very touchy vitrolic subject but I think it needs some discussion - and we got a smashing post from Frank n Furter on the issue.

The statistics on abuse are always frightening and the perpetrators are often under the delusion that the relationship is somehow an equal one, that physical maturity (which isn't even there, tbh) equates with the mental maturity. They'll try and cite old historical examples of how all this used to be right, that society isn't ready to deal with them, etc. What we see here is some very personal accounts of just how wrong these arguments are and just how it affects people. If just one young person sees this thread and takes these warnings from it then, in my opinion, it's a tribute to the effectiveness of these forums and its posters.

rsynnott

Yep, I know it WAS approved. This is an example of how maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Still, I suppose it at least lets people know these people are out there. (The IP address is logged, hopefully).

Boston

rsynnott wrote:

Yep, I know it WAS approved. This is an example of how maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Still, I suppose it at least lets people know these people are out there. (The IP address is logged, hopefully).

In the past, such posts have been deleted on this forum. By pretending that these people dont' exits in our community, we are damning yourselves in the future. FranknFurter's post has allot of resonance to it, and for that post alone I'm glad the guest post was allowed.

Hmm_Messiah

It just crossed my mind browsing elsewhere; that might it not be possible for some 14- 16 just scanning the forums would see the thread title, but NOT bother reading every post. In the few he did scan through see also this post, with an adult suggesting an "understanding " some young people feel frustratingly lacking in "most adults"

I know the the thread is linked to in the "predator sticky" but could maybe the thread title be amended to suggest a caution / content?

Boston

People generally read the first few replied, which are links to that thread.

damien

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

It just crossed my mind browsing elsewhere; that might it not be possible for some 14- 16 just scanning the forums would see the thread title, but NOT bother reading every post. In the few he did scan through see also this post, with an adult suggesting an "understanding " some young people feel frustratingly lacking in "most adults" ... but could maybe the thread title be amended to suggest a caution / content?

You might as well just delete the bloody thread if you are going to come up with such conjecture.

Hmm_Messiah

damien.m wrote:

You might as well just delete the bloody thread if you are going to come up with such conjecture.

Your knowledge/experience of 14- 16 yr olds, and their attention span must differ from mine ( I used tutor that age group).
Looking through a newspaper any day i'd find enough reason to err on the side of caution regarding young people. (I have personal & family experience of the consequence of "letting your guard down" and how those consequences invade every aspect of a person's life)

Sorry, don't see how giving an opinion ,or suggesting a possibility should cause any one such a big problem. Damn cerebral function!

Stark

Hmmm Messiah wrote:

Your knowledge/experience of 14- 16 yr olds, and their attention span must differ from mine ( I used tutor that age group).

In that case we should delete every thread on the board. Just in case they skip words and read something else entirely from some of the threads.

Hmm_Messiah

Stark wrote:

In that case we should delete every thread on the board. Just in case they skip words and read something else entirely from some of the threads.

That doesn't follow from anything I said. Misreading a joke,or pc advice,or a comment on a movie etc is, I'd of thought, far removed from perhaps happening on something which every one accepts is written by a dangerous person and the content (out of context of the complete thread) of which is "dangerous".

However, it seems the thread is moving far away from the original point, or what followed for UnReg Boy Fan's post. I didn't see a problem with some people feeling degree's of unease about his post remaining. I understood that any reader could post his opinion, the "regulation" of the thread being then left to the moderators.

damien

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

Sorry, don't see how giving an opinion ,or suggesting a possibility should cause any one such a big problem. Damn cerebral function!

Thinking too little or too much can both lead to stupidity. I have a problem with stupidity and allowing stupidity to override common sense and the belief that others even 14-16year olds (who you indirectly claimed to know more about than me) can't be trusted to use their judgement after intelligent arguments were presented to them. The Over-enthusiastic wrapping of a kid in cotton wool will just lead to asphyxiation.

Hmm_Messiah

damien.m wrote:

Thinking too little or too much can both lead to stupidity. I___________that others even 14-16year olds (who you indirectly claimed to know more about than me) can't be trusted to use their judgement after intelligent arguments were presented to them.

Stupidity is unrelated to the amount a person "thinks". And I said my knowledge differed from yours. Maybe a professional actually dealing with at risk kids could determine what level of precaution is warranted.

Like I said though, moving way off the point. you've succeeded in calling me stupid ("indirectly").well done. moving on.............

swiss

Any chance of getting back on topic?

Regardless of the contentious post, this thread is ostensibly about how to help a teenager get in contact with either other LGB youths or a safe organisation that can facilitate that contact.

As the unregistered "boy fan" post has amply demonstrated, it would be naive at best to trust the intentions of someone on the internet. It also demonstrates how certain people are willing to twist the intention of the original poster into some sort of desire for sexual exploration.

That leaves the intermediary organisation option, which in this case is the youth group belongto. I would still caution the original poster to be very wary, but that for the contact he seeks, it really would be better to do so in a relatively safe environment than in a potentially unsafe environment.

Edit: Also, enough bickering.

baggins

Wow, what a can of worms. I'll bet Edgehead didnt see this comin.

Just a wee note on an experience of mine.

I'm 21, and i give maths grinds to secondary school "kids" to keep myself goin in college. Over the last two years of doing this, i have encountered sexual advances from two of my students, one a girl aged 15 and the other a boy aged 14.

Before anyone decides to execute me on the spot, i didnt respond to these advances, because i honestly think it would be wrong and would really **** up something in their heads (gotta love autocensors) and i dont think i would be able to live with that.

The only course of action i could think of at the time was to stop teaching them, which was a big decision, because it put me down €80 a week, but it had to be done.

Just because feelings are there, it doesnt mean much in the hormone-infested body of a 14-year-old.

I agree with the belongto idea. they'll sort you out easily enough.

Victor

baggins wrote:

i didnt respond to these advances

Well there is an appropriate response - to decline politely and to say such behavior isn't appropriate between teacher-student and between people with such a [strike]great[/strike] substantial* variance in age and life experience. For a 15 year old to learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable is just as important for a 3 or 30 year old to learn that they are unacceptable.

Of course it is the behavior (whether physical, verbal or otherwise) that is to be rejected, not the student. Separately, but importantly, the ability to continue the teacher-student relationship needs to be examined, for the protection of both parties.

* I'm not 100% sure what word to use here, but I think most people will understand that while 15 year olds have some adult experience(s), a 21 year old will have a lot more.

ChRoMe

Michael Jackson jokes arnt allowed on humour but you let this thread run its course?

Should have been deleletd the minute it appeared imho

ChRoMe

Boston

thats the rules of humor, and these are the rules of LGB. This is why we have moderators as apposed to automated scripts.

padser

I must say the 'boy fan' post earlier on vindicates everything iv been saying for years about homosexuality and paedophilia being interconnected. And in fairness does anyone seriously beleive the original post was truely written by a 14 yr old??/?

Boston

padser wrote:

I must say the 'boy fan' post earlier on vindicates everything iv been saying for years about homosexuality and paedophilia being interconnected. And in fairness does anyone seriously beleive the original post was truely written by a 14 yr old??/?

Absolute evidence that people will believe whatever people want to believe, and will twist the facts the suite that aim. I see a thread full of LGB men and women condemning this guy, you clearly don't. As for the original poster, while all benefit of the doubt must be given, all precautions must be taken as well.

ixoy

padser wrote:

I must say the 'boy fan' post earlier on vindicates everything iv been saying for years about homosexuality and paedophilia being interconnected.

How precisely? Because of one suspect post, your connection is validated? By your dire logic I posit this: Sean O'Callaghan was a member of IRA. Sean is Irish. Therefore all Irish are members of the IRA. Do you see the flaw? Incidentally, did you bother to read the many many posts after that one whereby all the many other gay men of boards attacked the original post? Or are you only capable of blindly seeing what you want to see?

rsynnott

padser wrote:

I must say the 'boy fan' post earlier on vindicates everything iv been saying for years about homosexuality and paedophilia being interconnected. And in fairness does anyone seriously beleive the original post was truely written by a 14 yr old??/?

Erm, you know most paedophiles go for little girls, right? You're obviously not the sharpest pencil in the box...

Note that although homosexuality is intrinsically interconnected with paedophilia in this boy's excuse for a brain, it also doesn't exist: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2720678#post2720678

Boston

rsynnott wrote:

You're obviously not the sharpest pencil in the box...

Hey, lets not get personal.

rsynnott

LiouVille wrote:

Hey, lets not get personal.

He'll hardly be winning the Nobel Prize with his great insights into homosexuality, tbh... :rolleyes:

Boston

I really couldn't care what he'll be winning. you may find his opinions insulting, as do I, but he hasn't broken any rules or personally attacked any member.Now please, less of the cheep digs.

rsynnott

Yeh, possibly that was a bit much; just a jerk reaction to surreal, illogical claims. Sorry....