Cyber Athletes my ass!

the fnj

Can Quake and similar games be classed as a sport? After arguing this with a member of my quake 3 clan who shall remain nameless I have decided to see what the opinions of other boards.ie users are on this topic. Is Quake a sport and could it even possibly be an event in the Olympic games?

I personally think comparing sports to computer games is a touch insulting.

I play quake for fun in work. I do practice but at most an hour a day. I do not consider it to be a sport. It’s a computer game and the only physical aspect involved is the movement of my hands to press keys and move the mouse.

The complete opposite to this is rugby. I play rugby for fun also but do hope to make money out of it in the next few years. I train with the club twice a week and play matches at the week ends. I also train by myself going for runs etc. The training involved for rugby is extremely tough. A typical session may include a 3k run followed by push up, sit ups etc and then sprint drills. These are hard to do and afterwards I usually feel completely shattered. I could play Q3 for a day and not feel that drained.

They are the complete opposites but even using a spot like snooker the reasons for it being a sport and Q3 not are obvious. Modern day snooker players do keep fit physically. They need to because if they grow tired while playing the concentration drops and the miss pockets. The level of physical exertion required to play snooker is a lot higher than that required to play quake. Along with moving around the table the player must also physically push the balls around the table.

While typing this I was still arguing with Mr. Blank and I came up with a good definition of a sport.

In a sport you must physically interact with the playing environment.

This does not happen in a computer game because the playing environment is in the computer and is not real.

SheroN

Would you class darts and chess as a sport?...or bowling?....a sport doesn't mean you have to have sweat bucketing off you.

darthmise

Chess and darts arew board games

Hobbes

what kind of darts do you play?

Dr_Teeth

Or snooker.. these days it doesn't really matter. I would class it as a 'game', as it requires more mental rather than physical prowess. At the end of the day though, I'd love to top quake games covered on Sky Sports or on MTV with the other 'cool' sports. That would be most cool. I fear however that the best games will ever do is niche programming like Robot Wars/Scrapheap Challenge etc.

Teeth.

Shiminay

I had this arguement with some folks I worked with and initially they laughed. They put forward the arguement that it's not physical, so I reminded them of darts and chess. Then they said "But they're skillful (darts) and tactful (chess)" so I went on to explain the skill required in hitting a moving player with a rail gun/sniper rifle type weapon and the team tactics/forward thinging involved in any competitive match.

It certainly got all of them thinking and out of 8 of them, 4 agreed with me that a computer game *can* be called a sport. I admit that is is a stretch to call it such (and the physical interaction is probably the best arguement), but the playing environment is different. It's a whole new medium and way to interact.

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

[honey i] violated [the kids]

Canaboid

Not so long ago I read an article on this and the author drew parallels with other infant sports and how the same things were said about them. Baseball (US article) for instance. When it started (last century) it was only played by the working class. Middle/upper classes looked down on it as a poor persons pastime and would not consider playing or watching it. Times and attitudes change.

the fnj

Just because it takes skill to play does not make it a sport. It takes skill to chop vegtables quickly but thats not a sport.


An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

That is the definition of sport.

Computer games are not sports.

Celt

Then we need a new word for thinking games dont we?chess, baord games, darts, snooker, comp games are all outside the definition of sport you posted.

SheroN

Fair enough....that's your definition of sport....but why do sky SPORTS show pool, snooker, darts and boules(or bowls whatever its' called?)?....

the fnj

Chess is not a sport.

Snooker, Darts, etc are sports.

There is a enough physical element involved in all of them.

There is physical interaction with the playing enviroment.

It takes skill to use the enviroment to your advantage and not just tactics.

Moving a mouse is not considerd to be a physical task.

There is no physical interaction between the player and whats on the computer screen.

Moving a mouse takes no skill. Aiming it may do but the aiming is done in a computer and technically not by the player moving the mouse.

[This message has been edited by The FANJ (edited 29-03-2001).]

Shiminay

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:
Chess is not a sport.</font>

No Tom, it *is* a sport.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:
Snooker, Darts, etc are sports.

There is a enough physical element involved in all of them.

There is physical interaction with the playing enviroment.

It takes skill to use the enviroment to your advantage and not just tactics.

Moving a mouse is not considerd to be a physical task.

There is no physical interaction between the player and whats on the computer screen.

Moving a mouse takes no skill. Aiming it may do but the aiming is done in a computer and technically not by the player moving the mouse.
</font>

No way - moving a mouse to get that aim right is a very precise thing and takes huge amounts of skill to do it consistently (the CPL is on this weekend man - you watch carefully)! The physical interaction is between the player's hands and the mouse & keyboard. It's not with the screen, true, but as I said, it's a whole new medium. By your arguement, this isn't a conversation we're having cause I'm not face to face with you. OK, it's slightly out of context, but you can see my point.

Just because something isn't physical, it doesn't mean it's not a sport.

I look at it this way...
If a game is played at a competitive (and in most cases this means professional) level, then it's fair to consider it a sport.

Sports are things people train hard for, devote a lot of time to, enjoy doing and can sometimes provide spectators with enjoyment.

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>

[honey i] violated [the kids]

[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 29-03-2001).]

havok*

heh,
Dug up the irc log's that sparked this thread
Complete with typo
Enjoy

[16:18] <TheFANJ> all because you know it's true
[16:18] <TheFANJ> well they would
[16:18] <TheFANJ> any sport
[16:18] <Havok> Q3'rs would kick there asses @ quake
[16:18] <Havok> thats a real mans game
[16:18] <TheFANJ> thats not a sport
[16:19] <Havok> all the rubgy q3 players i know are fairly crap tbh like ))))))))))))))))))))))
[16:19] <Havok> (hidden messege)
[16:19] <TheFANJ> I'm talking about sports and puter game's ain't sport
[16:20] <Havok> ok answer me this
[16:20] <Havok> is snooker a sport ?
[16:20] <TheFANJ> yes
[16:20] <Havok> ok
[16:20] <Havok> whats involved in snooker ?
[16:20] <Havok> aim, timing, tactics
[16:20] <Havok> lemme c
[16:20] <TheFANJ> you can't compare
[16:21] <Havok> they have tournements where ppl can watch and players win prizes
[16:21] <Havok> sound fimmilier
[16:21] <TheFANJ> you hardly think that quake is a sport?
[16:21] <Havok> @ the highest level it is
[16:21] <TheFANJ> it's not
[16:22] <Havok> In 5 years cyber sports will be accepted
[16:22] <Havok> as sports
[16:22] <TheFANJ> were is the physical element?
[16:22] <TheFANJ> over my dead body
[16:22] <Havok> where is the physical element in snooker ?
[16:22] <Havok> u move the cue and aim
[16:22] <Havok> u move a mouse and aim in quake
[16:22] <TheFANJ> moving around the table using the que
[16:23] <TheFANJ> you have to push the balls
[16:23] <Havok> ok explain to my why iots not a sport then.....
[16:23] <TheFANJ> no physical element
[16:24] <Havok> u need to move ur hands
[16:24] <TheFANJ> so?
[16:24] <TheFANJ> your sitting
[16:24] <Havok> thats a physical element
[16:24] <Havok> so
[16:24] <TheFANJ> not really
[16:24] <Havok> chess is a sport
[16:24] <Havok> ur sitting
[16:24] <Havok> u move ur hands
[16:24] <TheFANJ> you don't go jogging to be a better q3 player
[16:24] <Havok> same deal
[16:24] <TheFANJ> you don't go jogging to be a better q3 player
[16:24] <Havok> so
[16:24] <Havok> you don't go jogging to be a better snooker player
[16:24] <TheFANJ> yes they do
[16:24] <Havok> my ****
[16:24] <TheFANJ> they do so
[16:25] <Havok> it wont effect there game
[16:25] <TheFANJ> modern snooker players keep fit
[16:25] <Havok> Chess is a sport
[16:25] <TheFANJ> cause if they get tired they lose concentration
[16:25] <Havok> they sit
[16:25] <TheFANJ> chess is not a sport
[16:25] <Havok> they move there hands
[16:25] <Havok> thats it
[16:25] <TheFANJ> chess is not a sport#
[16:25] <Havok> eh, actully it is
[16:25] <TheFANJ> it's a game
[16:25] <TheFANJ> not it's not
[16:25] <Havok> all sports are games ffs !
[16:25] <TheFANJ> chess is not a sport
[16:26] <TheFANJ> yes
[16:26] <TheFANJ> but all games are not sports
[16:26] <Havok> Tom i'll leave u with this thought : The very defonition of "sport" is playing a game competitivly
[16:26] <Havok> check mate
[16:26] <TheFANJ> no it's not
[16:27] <TheFANJ> An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
[16:27] <TheFANJ> physical being the key word in this case
[16:28] <Havok> chess is considered a sport
[16:28] <Havok> btw
[16:28] <TheFANJ> it's not
[16:28] <Havok> thats FACT
[16:28] <Havok> it might not be ur opionion
[16:28] <Havok> but it does classify as a sport
[16:28] <Havok> therefore fps shooters do
[16:28] <TheFANJ> no it dos'nt
[16:29] <Havok> this is like talkign to a wall
[16:30] <TheFANJ> Hav you cannot seriously think that people like fatality are athelites
[16:30] <Havok> cyber-athelites
[16:30] <TheFANJ> I find that insulting
[16:30] <Havok> how
[16:30] <Havok> it takes a **** load of training, playtime and skill
[16:31] <Havok> fat trained for 8 hours a day
[16:31] <TheFANJ> you could compare some nerd who plays quake and nothing else to somone who trains hard to play a intense physically demanding sport
[16:31] <Havok> its a different kind of sport
[16:31] <Havok> like Forumla 1 to rubgy
[16:31] <Havok> totaly different
[16:32] <TheFANJ> Firumla one is a sport
[16:32] <TheFANJ> physical element involved
[16:41] <Havok> so what ur say is, if some1 invented quake relay, in which players had to run from computer to computer during the game it would then be a sport ?
[16:41] <Havok> thats pretty ****ed up right there
[16:44] *** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Mar 27 16:44:36 2001


Session Start: Tue Mar 27 16:44:58 2001
[16:44] *** Now talking in #acid.ie
[16:45] *** Q sets mode: +o Havok
[16:45] <Havok> grrrrr
[16:45] <Havok> did u get my last lines b4 i got dissed ?
[16:45] <Havok> was robbo in and out ?
[16:46] <TheFANJ> no
[16:46] *** Retrieving #acid.ie info...
[16:47] <Havok> [16:32] <TheFANJ> Firumla one is a sport
[16:47] <Havok> [16:32] <TheFANJ> physical element involved
[16:47] <Havok> [16:41] <Havok> so what ur say is, if some1 invented quake relay, in which players had to run from computer to computer during the game it would then be a sport ?
[16:47] <Havok> [16:41] <Havok> thats pretty ****ed up right there
[16:47] <Havok> [16:44] *** Disconnected
[16:47] <TheFANJ> did'nt get that
[16:47] <TheFANJ> stupid point btw
[16:47] <Havok> lol
[16:47] <Havok> its a ture point
[16:47] <Havok> true
[16:47] <TheFANJ> I'm going to post on boards in a sec
[16:48] <TheFANJ> we shall see what the people think
[16:48] <Havok> ah
[16:48] <Havok> most ppl will go with ur view
[16:48] <Havok> i'll shall convert them tho
[16:48] <Havok> Ph33r My L33t Jedi Mind SkiLLz !
[16:48] *** logic1 has joined #acid.ie
[16:48] *** Q sets mode: +o logic1
[16:56] <TheFANJ> Havok
[16:57] <TheFANJ> I've a good definition of sport
[16:57] <Havok> sh00t
[16:57] <TheFANJ> You must physical interact with your playing enviroment!
[16:58] <Havok> ha !
[16:58] * Havok thinks a an argument
[16:58] <TheFANJ> does not happen in q3
[16:58] <Havok> gimma a few mins....
[16:58] <Havok> porcessing......
[16:58] <TheFANJ> shots all
[16:58] <Havok> p0rncessing
[16:58] <TheFANJ> that even lets chess be a sport
[16:59] <Havok> u are interacting with ur enviorment, other wise the quakeplayer would'nd move.....
[16:59] <Havok> shots all
[16:59] <TheFANJ> no he's not
[16:59] <TheFANJ> the enviroment is in the computer
[16:59] <Havok> so
[16:59] <TheFANJ> he is not in it
[16:59] <Havok> theres no rule against that
[16:59] <Havok> hl m8
[17:00] <TheFANJ> you sir have been owned
[17:00] * Havok likes pi$$ing tom off
[17:01] <Havok> U'll Never silance me tom, I'm the last angry man !!!
[17:01] <Havok> Gonna shake up those fatcats inthe doil, gonne rattle a few cages !!
[17:01] <Havok> myspacebaris****ed
[17:01] <Havok> gtg
[17:01] *** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Mar 27 17:01:41 2001

[This message has been edited by havok* (edited 29-03-2001).]

Da Bounca

any game can be classed as a sport, if it has rules , a winner/loser objective.

you said in irc that

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">[16:57] <TheFANJ> You must physical interact with your playing enviroment!</font>

well in quake, the character you are using is a representitive of you in another 3d world, basically your avatar in another physical enviroment.

its a phucking sport!

Telgere

<Havok> Tom i'll leave u with this thought : The very defonition of "sport" is playing a game competitivly

id have to agree

[SN]JAG

now all words have many meanings, you are obviously argueing from one standing point

(ie point 1 in the below definition)

sport (spôrt, sprt)
n.

1.An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

2.An active pastime; recreation.

3-
Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.

An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.

A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.

4.-

One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.

Informal. One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.

Informal. A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.

5.-

Informal.
A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.
A gambler at sporting events.

6.Biology. An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.

7.Maine. See summercater.

8.Obsolete. Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.

now if you look down through the definition of sport you see point 2
2.An active pastime; recreation.

as far as i know playing computer games is considered recreation, and my pastime includes playing tribes and counterstrike.

so

IN YER FACE FANJ

meglome

There is massive skill required to play some computer games well... a mental and physical dexterity that any top athlete would be proud of. No matter how much some people practice they may never be great at any sport so the difference is natural skill. That same skill has to stand for something whether it be in tenpin bowling or chess or whatever but in the future I think certain computer games will be classed as sports.

---

www.doesnotcompute.ie
www.gamire.com

darthmise

Oh please! Any attempt to catagorize computer games, as a sport, is an attempt to justify such a cronic waist of time to yourself.

They are games, not sport. There's a difference.

I take back the comment about darts, it could be considered a BOARD game aswell.

Zombrex

Peoples definition of physical exertion seem a bit limited in this topic...ever felt tired after an exam or playing quake for a few hours...it's cause you brain is tired. Your brain is just as much a muscle as your leg or arm. Cause you don’t sweat is completely irrelevant (it’s like saying if your feet are not sweaty you haven’t been arm wrestling properly). Chess players have had to be carried out of matches cause they were so exhausted from the game. So if you define a sport as a game played competitively that requires physical exertion then Quake (or video games in general) is a sport. Personally I think if anyone can play Quake as a sport (which many people do...for big money) then it is therefore a sport :-)

TacT

Very interesting, funnily enough, I go skateboarding.

Skateboarding is not classified as a sport.

Sure you have the extreme games on Eurosport and various other competitions held worldwide on a weekly basis, mainly in the States.

Well when I go skating I may go for up to 6 hrs of pouring sweat, physical and mental exersion.

Still this is not a sport

When I play cs I sit there and am mentally and physically challenged and there is a great deal of competitiveness between the people that play these games so I see no reason why they can't call it a sport.

It is what you make it.

I mean When Snowboarding 1st came out it was a disgrace that they might even call this a sport, let alone let it have a place in the olympic games. Well it is now classed as a sport and they compete in the olympics.

So what if people want to call it a sport, for whatever reason (ie they spend lots of time doing it).
It makes them feel better, so let them, good god, people go to church just to make their lives have some sort of meaning......why can't ours, whatever we are doing

the fnj

First of I do agree that it takes alot of skill to play quake at a high level. It takes alot of practice and some natural ability to be the best. That does not make it a sport.

To be a master chef you need skill, practive and a natural ability aswell.

They have competitions for chefs. They are competitive. So is cooking a sport?

No it’s not because the physical element involved is so low.

Moving a mouse is not considered a physical task.

How many quakers do you know that do weights to build up there wrist so they can move their mouse quicker?

Oh please! Any attempt to catagorize computer games, as a sport, is an attempt to justify such a cronic waist of time to yourself.
They are games, not sport. There's a difference.

I did’nt want to put my point so harshly but he is right.

I don’t think playing games is a waste of time. They are good fun but I would never take them as seriously as I would rugby.




[This message has been edited by The FANJ (edited 30-03-2001).]

havok*

Tom,

As Wicknight put it, U are using ur brain, which is a just another musle.
DO u realise how ****ed tyred we are after a full night @ acidLAN ?
Thats physical.

Ur point about the chef is stupid. Beeing a good cook is not a game, therefore does not quilify as a sport.

Chess, beleive it or not is a sport.
Thats not debatable btw thats a FACT

In a few years web and TV will be farly merged, How long then do u think it'll be b4 its getting coverage.
It is a spectator sport to.
Pay attention to the crowds sitting around watching the game on the 12 foot screen tommoro

Everything required for it to be a sport is there, can u give me one good reson (thats not "its not physical") why its not ?

the fnj

The human brain is not a muscle.

I'm not even going to tell you why it's not. If you don't know that now then may god have mercy on your soul.

Kali

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
No way - moving a mouse to get that aim right is a very precise thing and takes huge amounts of skill to do it consistently (the CPL is on this weekend man - you watch carefully)! The physical interaction is between the player's hands and the mouse & keyboard</font>

oh dear. the level of hand-eye co-ordination, percision, skill and physical effort involved in playing snooker and darts far far outweighs playing any computer game.
just try and pot a ball on a professional snooker table or consistently score 140+ in darts and you'll change your mind.
picking up these skills takes years of practice.. I think you'll find that most FPS gamers take max about two months to go from inept at controlling the enviroment to extremely good.

Paladin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">just try and pot a ball on a professional snooker table or consistently score 140+ in darts and you'll change your mind.
picking up these skills takes years of practice.. I think you'll find that most FPS gamers take max about two months to go from inept at controlling the enviroment to extremely good.</font>

I play both. Took roughly the same amount of time to reach a plateau (i wouldnt define it as a peak) at both. It takes an equal amount of skill to become a top quake player as a top snooker player. Thats in relative terms im talking about.

Evidence? Get the top snooker players to play quake and do u rekon they could beat the bet?

Bottom line ppl, is all your arguing is a technical definition.
It is what it is. Going by strict technical definition, Quake etc. is a sport. Althou in reality the physical aspect is laughable. In then end of the day being a top football player will pull you a way more women, which is what counts in the end of the day

Illkillya

if you look at the major leagues in q3, UT, CS, etc.. the amount of organisation and training the clans put in is huge. I used to play rugby, we trained 4 nights a week and had a match on a saturday. But still i spent more time playing q3 than I did playign rugby.
Theres so much involved in an important clan match.. the communication, skill, intelligence, etc.
Tactical anni said skateboarding is not classified as a sport. If this is true... then Quake is not a sport.. but I don't see how this could be true. By my definition, skateboarding is a sport, and at the highest level, so is Quake3

DeVore

Theres soooo many illogical things being posted here its hard to decide which to reply to...

You cant say anything is a sport until you define what the word "sport" means.

Its a question of "Sweat". Do you have to sweat for it to be a sport?

Snooker players dont train their arms to cue, darts players dont train their arms for throwing the darts. Physical training is irrelevant here.

No matter HOW HARD I train I will never beat Koopa. I just wont.

I've played pool at fairly high levels of competition and I can tell you it was easier to get skillz in pool then in Quake 3

When you are chopping vegtables you DONT COMPETE agains anyone. Perhaps you could have competitive veg-chopping meets but its boring as **** so noone would come.

On the other hand, Eskimos are very very serious about their Ear-pulling contests (a loop of string around the contestants ears and they pull each other like a tug-o-war). We think its absolutely ****ing idiotic but then most of our fathers hit balls of elastic hundreds of yards into small holes in the ground.

Define "sport" acceptibly (your definition above is insulting to non-"jock" sportpeople) and it should be obvious whether or not computer games can be classed as sport.

DeV.

the fnj

All of the top young snooker players do physical training i.e. running.

I have given you the definition of sport.

I was at CPL today and I played a couple of games. Boy were my arms killing me. Moving the mouse and pressing the keys really takes it out of me.

No it didn’t I'm being sarcastic of course.

(Your definition above is insulting to non-"jock" sportspeople)

I think considering quake 3 to be a sport is insulting to sports people.

Ask a quaker do they consider themselves to be athletes. I doubt many of them do. If there not athletes than how can it be a sport?

Celt

Fanj, you've contradicted yourself, and wehave proven all your points wrong, but you keep spouting the exact same arguments or say walking around the table is physical exertion....!!!!

Paladin

Look FanJ. Everybody can see and understand what you are saying.

The thing is you are being extremely picky about a definition. What you regard as a definition is certainly inacurate.

You say top snooker players jog etc. The reason is so they can concentrate better during games. Ok, so my point is : so what?
The jogging itself has nothing to do with snooker as a sport.
A guy in a wheelchair could play pool.


You say Quake 3 players wouldnt classify themselves as athletes? Well thats only if they didnt know the exact defintion, because the word athlete is much more clearly defined than sport.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
athlete \Ath"lete\, n. [L. athleta, Gr. ? prizefighter, fr. ? to contend for a prize, ?, Hom. ?, contest, ? prize; fr. the same root as E. wed: cf. F. athl[`e]te.] 1. (Antiq.) One who contended for a prize in the public games of ancient Greece or Rome.

2. Any one trained to contend in exercises requiring great physical agility and strength; one who has great activity and strength; a champion.

3. One fitted for, or skilled in, intellectual contests; as, athletes of debate. </font>

Happy?

In the end of the day, all you are defining is a word. We know what quake/CS/etc. is. We know what rugby and soccer etc. are.

Its like what DeVore said. Define "sport" clearly and it will be clear whether quake is a sport.
And no FanJ you didnt define it clearly

But like I said. Sport is all about pulling women in the end of the day isnt it?

Megatron

i do agree that some comp games ( quake,UT,CS) can be classed as sports when it is ina leauge,cup or something i don't think it will ever be truly excepted as a sport.
as for the whole interaction with your envoirment, YOU are interacting physicaly, you controll what your guy does hence you do have contact with that world !!!

---

No !!!!! I will crush you with my Bare hands

Wyverne

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:
The human brain is not a muscle.

I'm not even going to tell you why it's not. If you don't know that now then may god have mercy on your soul.</font>

er ... actually yes it is, and by no giving a reason as to why u are so sure its not, merely proves you have no idea what u are talking about,

the human brain is bloody well THE most complex MUSCLE in the human body, it is classes as a muscle and it ****ing well IS a muscle,

stick to what u know tom, we dont expect rugby players to be intellectuals

dont worry

Winning Hand

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wyverne:
er ... actually yes it is</font>

Um.... no its not. There are three types of muscle in the human body
1. skeletal :voluntary
2. smooth :your internal stuff
3. cardiac: your heart

The brain is a collection of myelinated and unmylinated neurons, there is nothing whatsoever in the brain that makes it a muscle. I mean in all fairness, what are you going to do when your brain of all things starts to contract. Your eyes would get sucked back in and you would curl up like a ball (joke)

PiE

Chess is a sport.

So if you play it on a computer, or online, does it cease to be a sport just because the medium/enviroment has changed?

the fnj

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wyverne:
, and by no giving a reason as to why u are so sure its not, merely proves you have no idea what u are talking about,

Ok so Joe you tell me why it is a muscle!

the human brain is bloody well THE most complex MUSCLE in the human body, it is classes as a muscle and it ****ing well IS a muscle,

it is classes as a muscle and it ****ing well IS

Great point proving how the muscle is a brain. Really explained it well and the cursing just helped hit the point home.


stick to what u know tom, we dont expect rugby players to be intellectuals

dont worry</font>

Ok don't expect me to be an intellectual I don't really care what you think of me, but if your going to slag me you might aswell make some points that make sense and that you can back up.

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Sorry Joe, but looking over that post of yours I think you are proving yourself to be the one lacking in the old intellectual department.


The portion of the vertebrate central nervous system that is enclosed within the cranium, continuous with the spinal cord, and composed of gray matter and white matter. It is the primary center for the regulation and control of bodily activities, receiving and interpreting sensory impulses, and transmitting information to the muscles and body organs. It is also the seat of consciousness, thought, memory, and emotion.
A functionally similar portion of the invertebrate nervous system.


Really does'nt sound like a muscle when put like that.


[This message has been edited by The FANJ (edited 07-04-2001).]

Trojan

Ok, so I can't answer the question, but recommended reading on this is Piers Anthony's "Split Infinity" series.

In the series, one society uses yearly games to progress from slave to citizen status. Interesting regarding your arguments.

Al.

[This message has been edited by Trojan (edited 08-04-2001).]

Clintons Cat

What Is Sport?

What Is Art?

Can Sport Be Art?

Can Art Be Sport?

Is This Relevant?

Can I Have A Crayon?

Can I Throw It At The Wall?

Have I Just Invented A New Art Sport Called Crayon Darts?
Is It Sport?
Is It Art?
Would Anyone Pay Me To Play And Perfom Crayon Darts?
Some people might call it a stupid game but in my heart i know it is the future of Sports Entertainment.i already have a league table {yellow crayon is beating black crayon by two squiggles and a curved line}.

Game/Sport/Art

Dont Worry/Be Happy/Play The Game

Let those who dont play deceide what it is.

This Post Has Been Sponsored By Crayola Crayons Official Team Sponsorsof the 2009 Clinton Cat CrayonDart Olympic Team

Baz_

Well Devore I have to give you the hammer nail and head prize for pointing out exactly what fanj problem is, even though you didn't make it 100% clear.

fanj is a rugby playing jock, and hes insulted or jealous of the fact that people who don't sweat as much as he can still be considered athletes well boo hoo.

On occasion I have watched ready steady cook, I imagine that this is the less serious equivalent of a proper chef competition, and the chefs on that program move more and interact more heavily with their environment than most snooker players. I'm not saying cooking is a sport I'm just saying that your arguement is slightly flawed.

I assume fanj went to dictionary.com for his definition for a sport, well there was more than one definition of sport there than the one you copied and pasted, the second one which jag posted above lets computer games qualify as sports.

Athletes, I don't remember who posted the definition of athletes but there are people who travel the world to play in computer game tournaments and make quite a lot of money too, enough to fund themselves.

So if computer games fall into at least one definition of a sport (and the do), and players of computer games fall into at least one definition of athletes (and I think they fall into more than one), well then why can't fanj accept the fact that he is wrong.

He put the nail in his own coffin of jockhood with his inference of nerdhood to anyone who plays computer games for long periods, but some of these people are in training for very serious high paying tournaments so that they can reach the pinnacle of their chosen sport. Just because they don't get raked accross the back every game does not make them any less of a sports person.

Baz_

ps on the snooker players physical fitness improving their concentration point, would that not also benefit computer game players, I very much think so.

Clintons Cat

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PiE:
Chess is a sport.

So if you play it on a computer, or online, does it cease to be a sport just because the medium/enviroment has changed?</font>

<comentators Voice>
Looks like Check to me Sports Fans
*starts petition to have bulletin board posting included as an olympic sport*

the fnj

YAH! Pass me a Heino there. Fu<king playing rugby today. totaly busted by oposite man new fu<king A hole. YAH I'm such a fu<king jock man. Go around in my letterman gets all the fu<king sluts.

Yes as that indicates I am a total jock and would never have anything to do with the web, computer games or basically computers. Like come on computers and there users are all geeks with no lives who jack of to pictures on Xena and Seven. I also hate nerd cafes and regularly bang the windows at night on my way home.


Thanks for proving in simple steps why Quake etc are sports. Oh wait I misread your post you actually had no points in that regard you were just trying to be humourous. Nice try but it wasn't really that funny tbh. I have never been insulting to anyone over this topic and most of the q3 lads that I talked to about it did argue with me but all in good jest (Of course I was only talking to them because I was stealing there lunch money and administering wedgies).

Baz tell me give me reasons why there sports and don't try to be funny or try and insult me.

PS. You should have seen the look on Koopa's face when I had his underwear up over his head.

Clintons Cat

anyways havent the japanese been taking computer game tournaments as serious sports seriously since the days of Street Fighter and Doom? By this i mean major spectator events watched on giant monitors, prize money, competitors training for hours every day, winners receiving recognition and notoriety ,press coverage.
Yeah i know they are japanese, hell they probally even hold Celebrity Cook Offs.

PiE

Anything's better than cricket

Baz_

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Baz_:
I assume fanj went to dictionary.com for his definition for a sport, well there was more than one definition of sport there than the one you copied and pasted, the second one which jag posted above lets computer games qualify as sports.

Athletes, I don't remember who posted the definition of athletes but there are people who travel the world to play in computer game tournaments and make quite a lot of money too, enough to fund themselves.

So if computer games fall into at least one definition of a sport (and the do), and players of computer games fall into at least one definition of athletes (and I think they fall into more than one), well then why can't fanj accept the fact that he is wrong.

Baz_</font>

I always knew jocks couldn't read!!

the fnj

Thats bull! If they fall in to one definition of sports they are NOT sports. they need to fit all of them.

According to your logic if for example we were to decide weither or not a human was an insect. Well humans breath air and all insects breath air so humans must be insects.

For computer games to be sports they must fit every definition of sports to qualify.

PS
Am Complut I illetat. No spell me. Me fail english thats's umpossible.

Baz_

Damn I hate admitting this but jolly good point my man.

I was only messing about not being able to read though.

I would just like to know though if you are not moved at all to believe in the opposite direction, I know I'm not so why should you but I would just like to know.

However, on another point regarding physical interaction with environments and all that. If a games player happened to break a wrist there is absolutely no way he would be as good as before, which surely must suggest to you that there is some small modicum of physical interaction with his environment. Oh and by the way the environment of a gamesplayer is the mouse and keyboard etc. and not the map he/she happens to be playing.

the fnj

BAZ my respect for you just went up there.

I have'nt changed my opinion because I play Quake 3 alot so I am aware of whats involved. To be honest the gap between rugby and quake from a physical point of view is huge. I know people are asking me about this sport and that sport but rugby is the only sport I play competitively these days so asking me to compare to darts etc is hard to do.

When I asked Sam (Koopa) if he was an athelete he said no. He is one of the top quake players in Ireland and he does not consider himself to be a sportsman so why should it be a sport.

havok*

I think that conversation when a little like this....

Fanj: are u making the tea?
Sam:no
Fanj: are u doing the washing up?
Sam:no
Fanj:do u play rugby?
Sam:no
Are u a cyber-athlete ?
Sam:no
Fanj: Does my bum look big in this ?
Sam: no
Fanj: c'mon make the tea ffs
Sam: no

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<-- Enemy p4nts Secure
Clan Acid
Clan Bio

Syngen-Smythe

If playing q3 is a sport, then playing multiplayer asteroids is also a sport.

The fact of the matter is: Ppl who say that q3 is a sport actually play q3, but dont part-take in activities that are generally deemed to be sports(ie. rugger, soccer etc.).
Im sure some "special cases" will dispute this.....
Fanj, on the other hand, has experience of playing an "actual" sport as well as q3, thus warranting him to give an opinion without prejudice.
Perhaps we could construct a new term to classify the playing of Q3 & other comp. games etc. - my effort: TROPS.

Sorry, but q3 is not a sport @ any competitive level....

PiE

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Syngen-Smythe:
Sorry, but q3 is not a sport @ any competitive level....
</font>

Except...it is. Ask the people playing for thousands of dollars in Quake Tourneys whether its a competitive sport.

Wyverne

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by havok*:
I think that conversation when a little like this....

Fanj: are u making the tea?
Sam:no
Fanj: are u doing the washing up?
Sam:no
Fanj:do u play rugby?
Sam:no
Are u a cyber-athlete ?
Sam:no
Fanj: Does my bum look big in this ?
Sam: no
Fanj: c'mon make the tea ffs
Sam: no


</font>

LOL LOL LOL

G'man HAvOK my hero

hehe funny b4stard

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Im Going to Thrash you to within an Inch of your Life.....................
AND THEN TAKE THAT INCH!!!!

Wyverne

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PiE:
Except...it is. Ask the people playing for thousands of dollars in Quake Tourneys whether its a competitive sport.

</font>

good point PIE

sad fact is that The Fanj hates the fact that there are KIDS out there RIGHT NOW earning millions more than professional rugby players today,

hehe its great isnt it..

now i am a sporty person, i have playe soccar at amateur irish level, and i have represented Ireland in the Tae Kwon Do world Championships

and in my opinion the defintion of "Sport" is alot wiser than people credit it...

who is to say that somone who spends their lif working and hours each day training for Q3 or whatever is less of an athlete than some grunt who trains in a more pysical sport,

answer = NO ONE

no one has the right to pass off the efforts of someone else in any kind of sport,

so The Fanj stop being so bloody stubborn and pig headed, your opinion would be different if you were not 6 ft 5inches, built for rugby and a good player and instead playing games for a living, you would believe in yourself that it was a sport,

so dont demean some1 else life by saying that they are not sports

---

Im Going to Thrash you to within an Inch of your Life.....................
AND THEN TAKE THAT INCH!!!!