Instructing Children

Shabadu

I'm really stumped as to to how to go about instilling a sense of spirituality in my child. My own spirituality developed over many years without any guidance or direction from anyone, and I really want to be able to give my son some sort of options or theories on it.

I'm very liberal, and while I would describe myself as a christian, I do not go in for organised religion. I don't hold with the outdated practises and dictates of the church. I want my son to first and foremost regard everyone as an equal, and to know to treat himself and others with compassion, dignity and respect.

My boyfriend is an atheist, and has no objections twoards me showing our son the option of leading a spiritual life in the sense of 'believing' in something, however he wouldn't really feel comfortable with me 'making' him follow a specific religion, or practising an organised religion.

I'm almost embarassed at the thought of trying to explain to my child the way I feel on a spiritual level. It's such a private and personal thing for me, I've never talked about it in depth with anyone.

He's only 19 mths old, so I wouldn't be starting lessons just yet... ;P
Any advice would be appreciated.

is_that_so

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

I'm really stumped as to to how to go about instilling a sense of spirituality in my child. My own spirituality developed over many years without any guidance or direction from anyone, and I really want to be able to give my son some sort of options or theories on it.

I'm very liberal, and while I would describe myself as a christian, I do not go in for organised religion. I don't hold with the outdated practises and dictates of the church. I want my son to first and foremost regard everyone as an equal, and to know to treat himself and others with compassion, dignity and respect.

My boyfriend is an atheist, and has no objections twoards me showing our son the option of leading a spiritual life in the sense of 'believing' in something, however he wouldn't really feel comfortable with me 'making' him follow a specific religion, or practising an organised religion.

I'm almost embarassed at the thought of trying to explain to my child the way I feel on a spiritual level. It's such a private and personal thing for me, I've never talked about it in depth with anyone.

He's only 19 mths old, so I wouldn't be starting lessons just yet... ;P
Any advice would be appreciated.

not April 1st again, is it ? :rolleyes:

Shabadu

Wow. What a helpful and informative response. Thanks.

Nevyn

He maybe a little young yet
But there is no reason you cant be thinking about the main things you do belive
/ have faith in and try define them to yourself so that you can at a later age
talk to him and teach him.

When four year olds start school they are taught about god the father and say
basic prayers this escaltes each unless you are lucky enough to have your child in a multidenominational school. Despite the fact the school knows my children
are not Christian never mind catholic there was much todo about that 'we' had
to go to mass tomorrow from the teacher to the kids.

stevenmu

I've always thought that the way my parents handled religion with me was pretty good. First of all they always thought me to think for myself, be open minded and not afraid to question things (except for their authority of course ). They're marginally catholic themselves, they never go to mass or anything but they let me know that they'd take me if I wanted to. When I would ask them why I should make my communion/confirmation when I didn't believe in God they would say that I didn't have to if I didn't want to but I might aswell in case I decided to believe in God later on, and I'd be left out if I was the only one not doing it (this from the same people who told me not to give in to peer pressure ).

transperson

having recently pondered this very question, i think the most important thing is to encourage a open, questioning and inquisitive nature in the child and once he is older he can then discover things for himself.

but you can do one big thing to develop the childs positive associations with the spiritual and plant the seeds of interest in the spiritual and mythical worlds so the they can flower in later life that is to read to your child and enjoy the illustrations of the books with them. as well as developing a interst of the child it will give them a great store of knowledge about language and image that will stay with them for life, every thing that goes in, stays in under the surface consiousness!

from a young age reading the religious myths and stories of various cultures, books such as the childrens bible, stories of jesus, mohammud, buddha or old testament[everyone loves Noahs Arc], the funny stories from the tao te ching, hindu legends as well as the various mythologies of ancient civilisations our own rich heritage in ireland and those of say Greece and Rome, myths and stories are full of wonderful images and archetypal characters and events that are of great spiritual dept. they have always been used to pass knowledge from generation to generation and to embide a sence of the spiritual into the listener, metaphor and imagery is so much more engaging and clear than preachy sermon and lecturing. when i was a child these stories were fascinating to me and the interest has sprung from that.

too many children are deprived of this, TV and video games while fun and good have really taken over too much, it is unbalanced.

MeatProduct

Mindfulness is key. The mind of a child is boundless but the boundaries of it's reality gradually get narrorer as the child ages. All aspects of life impose limits and restrictions on a young mind. Especially parents and schooling.

When I have children I will be educating them from home. I have met a number of parents who do this as well as their children. It was amazing for me to see how little trappings these kids had, a deepness and balance that is rarely seen. It was clear these children were loved by their parents as they did not crave any attention or perform any destructive behaviour. (These were parents that are "spiritual").However it is vital not to shield children from the "world". That action would be motivated by fear.

I really admire your desire to give this gift to your child. My advice is to follow your heart, there is no "wrong" when you do this for it is your truth. Reflect on everything you are about to say before you say it, mindless words are empty and a child will pick up on this. Think expansion rather than contraction, expand possibilities rather than limit them.

Just some idle ramblings from an idle mind

Nick

Stabshauptmann

is_that_so wrote:

not April 1st again, is it ? :rolleyes:

Have you anything more worthwhile to add rather than takins cheap shots at posters here?

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

I'm really stumped as to to how to go about instilling a sense of spirituality in my child. My own spirituality developed over many years without any guidance or direction from anyone, and I really want to be able to give my son some sort of options or theories on it.

I'm very liberal, and while I would describe myself as a christian, I do not go in for organised religion. I don't hold with the outdated practises and dictates of the church. I want my son to first and foremost regard everyone as an equal, and to know to treat himself and others with compassion, dignity and respect.

My boyfriend is an atheist, and has no objections twoards me showing our son the option of leading a spiritual life in the sense of 'believing' in something, however he wouldn't really feel comfortable with me 'making' him follow a specific religion, or practising an organised religion.

I'm almost embarassed at the thought of trying to explain to my child the way I feel on a spiritual level. It's such a private and personal thing for me, I've never talked about it in depth with anyone.

He's only 19 mths old, so I wouldn't be starting lessons just yet... ;P
Any advice would be appreciated.

I spent a long time keeping my beliefs to myself because of the stigma Irish society attaches (in my eyes anyway) to non-organised faith. My family, particularly my mother and sisters continuously attack me as an atheist.

While your child is probably too young to examine the mysteries of life yet, if you wanted to start educating him in spirituality I'd say that just setting an example would be a great start. My spirituality is a key part of how I tackle problems, view equity and so forth and if your child just sees you acting and thinking the way you do I believe you will impart a great deal on him.

As your child gets older just ask the odd spiritual question and get them to think about it rather than discuss it. Might I suggest buying your child a copy of Sophies world, its a philosophy book not a spirituality one but its great for just getting the mind thinking; the first part imo of a spiritual journey.

Hope thats of any help

Nevyn

It depends on waht you mean as non organised, Mine is pretty orgainised but
we dont have a church to point to and open public cerimonies
(getting a permit to so just that is unbelieveible).

From my point of view the basics was reaching them about the wonders of nature and making them aware of the seasons of the plants and trees waking in spring and sleeping in winter. But when they start school thier teacher beomes
a font for a lot of knowledge, and if teacher is right about maths and how to read and the world being a big ball then it usually follows on that teacher is
right about 'God', and a new game begins .

americanCat

When i have kids, i would like to let them choose their own spiritualistic beliefs. In order to do this, i would like to teach my child of all the different religions and show him/her that there are many different paths out there. For example, i would read excerpts from religious writings from religions such as Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. And i would also help my child learn all he/ she can about the lesser known religions, such as wicca and "Dr. Seusanism" (a religion a friend of mine made up ^^). I hope that my teachings would allow my child to make his/ her own choice without fear of being an outcast because of his/her beliefs.

McGinty

I have a seven year old boy, and it's only in the last five years that my spiritual beliefs have taken a momentous change, unfortunately I have had my son christened as a Catholic, however I don't mind too much as I have a very strong input into his spiritual life, I just wish I had allowed him to choose his own religion, rather than force Catholicism on him.

From my experience it is aiming the teaching at what the child can absorb, so for a start being consistent, honest and fair towards your son, along with a respectful manner towards him (not always easy as we are only human) will teach him basic ethics.

Teaching him love and respect towards nature, animals, insects and people's property will enhance this. I encourage my son to help with gardening (since he was five), we talk about the seasons, we choose our favourite flowers, I get books on the earth, various bugs and insects and we never kill any bugs in the house (except maggots, and thankfully the cat eats flies), however I haven't had to kill any maggots as no breeding grounds are allowed for them.

Next year he will be making his communion, and I believe it will be around this time that I will start teaching him about other religions. I should add, that it was my son who introduced me to the reincarnation theory, he told me when he was five that he believed people died and came back in another body. Why he came out with this, I don't know. Don't underestimate your child's own inate spiritual intelligence, children can teach us so much about our own spirituality. As parents we have as much to learn, as children learn from us. It's good that your planning ahead, as you'll be more ready when those questions or times arise.

Shabadu

Thanks everyone, i'll definitely take your suggestions up. I was thinking about building up the spiritual side of my library a bit more, an I'll pick up some child-friendly ones so they are there for him when he is older.

Posing questions for his consideration is another option I hadn't even considered; on reflection, it is the way my spirituality grew.

Mythology is also another exciting and fun way to encourage spiritual thoughts. My obsession with mythology as a child was the starting point for my abiding love of all classical literature and architecture. Ethically, roman and greek mythology is a tad out-dated though...

Sophie's world is the best introduction to the ethical branch of philosophy for children, it's still an instructive and 'easy' read for adults. I'll dig it out of the box of books I have down the country.

I also whole-heartedly agree that the only way to really teach your child is through example.

These all seem so natural now they've been suggested, thank you all for the help.

solas

kind of have to think about this for a bit.

I think it's important to remember our children are pure and uninfluenced, their ideas about spirituality are usually better than our own. They have not had years of alternative suggestions shoved down their throats and are quite unbiased. Thats a blessing most of us would cherish.

Even as part of their schooling, they don't form an adult perspective of religion, they learn the basics of love and being good and kind and that kind of thing. I think its better to have that than not have it, especially in today's society, regardless of religious persuasion. It's a good base from which to grow.

Most of us will have come to our own conclusions about where we stand with our own particular brand of faith, the majority of young Irish people have grown up in a politically and religiously aggrieved nation. I can't help but think that has formed our perspectives with regard to our "spirituality".
We're like the pheonix that has risen from the ashes, or the butterfly which has grown from the chrysalis.

Our children too will be influenced by society and its flow through their lives. The best we can do is lead by good example.

CathyMoran

I was raised by liberal parents who while having me babtised and sending me to a convent school also let me read up on all the different religions, I always had friends from different religions, was encouraged to ask as many questions as I wanted, and was allowed to decide after my confirmation if I did not want to go to church. Needless to say this did not go down well in my school - I was talking about evolution when I was 4 and the teachers did not want to have to deal with that! Still, I think that they were great in that they gave my brother and I all of the facts. I do agree that you should teach your children by example - I was always able to discuss issued in an informed way with my parents.

is_that_so

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Have you anything more worthwhile to add rather than takins cheap shots at posters here?

I would if I believed the OP was serious. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has genuine beliefs and no doubt the OP is such a person. They are the foundation of life for many people, however my original facetious comment here is directed at the fact that the child in question is 19 months old.

Talliesin

is_that_so wrote:

however my facetious comment is directed at the fact that the child in question is 19 months old.

It is my experience that 19month old children tend to become older. Don't tell anyone, but I was once a 19month old child myself.
The OP appears to be aware of this phenomenon also:

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

He's only 19 mths old, so I wouldn't be starting lessons just yet... ;P [emphasis mine]

ArthurDent

This is something i've been thinking about a lot lately. I'm a pretty much lapsed catholic, go to mass rarely, believe in birth control, but still find it important to mark some occasions in church - christenings, funerals, Christmas, Easter, my husband is an atheist and pretty anti-catholic. My kids go to a multi-D school and it's amazing how much info my kids have picked up and they now have their own little faith systems(for want of a better word), both beleive that you go to "heaven", have a very traditional view of god as an old man with a beard etc - even though I thought I hadn't stereo typed these things. They have a very clear view of what is right and wrong ( I may not always agree!). They have been exposed to the muslim faith, hindu faith etc and I have encouraged them to explore all and any tpics along these lines - recently my 6 year old asked me about the idea of rebirth and I asked him if he thought he'd like to go to heaven after dying or to be reborn as someone/something different and he asked me what I thought would happen and I said I'm not sure and he said he'd probably like to go to heaven and see his grandad and great granny (both recently deceased). When it comes to communion preparation next year, its not done in school hours so we will have to make a choice and I'm going to leave it up to him to decide - I'm sure our wider families might have some issues with this, but that's how I'm approaching this.

Guess I'm pretty mixed up on how we will handle things but I hope we will muddle through. I'm going to be as honest as I can and if I'm not sure about something I'm not going to lie to my kids.

is_that_so

Talliesin wrote:

It is my experience that 19month old children tend to become older. Don't tell anyone, but I was once a 19month old child myself.
The OP appears to be aware of this phenomenon also:

As I said I acknowledge that it is an important and valid discussion however IMHO the discussion of the spiritual needs of a 19 month old child is questionable. There are more important needs at work at that age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Talliesin

I have to say I'm very happy with the ethical and religious instruction that my children receive at an Educate Together school (one daughter there, one going next year, and the twins' names are down). The focus for the first few years is very much on ethical behaviour taught in a manner that makes sense to children and focussing on encouraging them to think about the issues rather than "because I said so".
The fact that the school has such a mixed population is advantageous that way as well - Sadhbh's best friend is Muslim, and her other friends are from a mixture of religious backgrounds. Along with the fact that my wife and I practice differing forms of Paganism (pretty much the same religious beliefs, but observed differently) and our parents our Roman Catholic there is quite a mixture of influences and, most importantly in my view, an understanding that this is something that people differ on, and that differing on these matters is okay.
In the home I would describe our behaviour as quietly Pagan - we mark the Sabbats and the children have a good understanding of the changing phases of the moon, and an emerging understanding that this is something that is sacred to my wife and I. Apart from that and a few items around the house (particularly foliage masks of the Oak King ["oaking" as Béibhinn pronounces it ] and Holly King and sometimes seasonal decorations, most of which are much the same as what Irish Catholics would have anyway though the significance we give to some differ). The girls have been told some mythological stories, but as stories rather than as anything with particularly strong religious or cultural significance. Witchcraft is something we have told the girls very little about, they know the etiquette of not touching a Witch's tools without asking and that's about it, though some of the ideas Sadhbh has come up with on her own are very interesting, but that's another matter.
From that basis they are encouraged to decide what they think for themselves. Sadhbh is currently an atheist (she believes in the Tooth Fairy but not in God, but then I suppose God doesn't leave money under your pillow) and Béibhinn is still quite young to really say what she believes though her attitude to the moon is close to reverence. It's really quite wonderful to see them developing increasingly more mature attitudes to ethical, theological and cosmological questions at a level of understanding that is appropriate to such young children. As someone said on a list a while back "Children have their own mysteries, and we can no more enter into them fully than they can stand in the Holy of Holies".

Nevyn

yes 19 mnth olds do not ask 'Mammy whats god ?' , but a 3 to 4 year old will.
I think it is commenable for OP to be thinking about such questions now,
and sorting out for themselves what they believe rather then stuggling to explain
to a questioning child later.

My daughter is nearly 5 and I know that in the next 5 to 8 years I will be faced
with the day she has her first period. I think about it and worry slightly and hope I do my best for her. All parents to this, as we are coping with the huge joy and responibilty of rearing a little person and trying to teach them about
the world they have been born into for we are thier first guide and reference.

Hell I worry about when mine will be moving out of hom and they are 7 and nearly 5, and hope I will have done my best to equip them for life in this world.

Talliesin

is_that_so wrote:

IMHO the discussion of the spiritual needs of a 19 month old child is questionable.

The OP was not discussing the spiritual needs of a 19 month old, but the spiritual needs of a child who is currently 19 months old but who won't remain so forever. Thinking ahead about something that is important and which doesn't have immediate answers (especially since it leads to one re-examining one's own values and beliefs) seems sensible enough to me.

Stabshauptmann

One thing Im not sure on and Id like some opinions here, should one baptize their children?

Personally Ive a few problems whith the Church, they're a matter for another thread, but Im wondering should I (when the day comes, and its a long long way away ) baptize my children.

The thing is I wouldnt feel right telling them believe A B and C because I wouldnt like the think Id forced something upon them. However by not baptizen' them Id be afraid that they'd be identified as being different and all the stigma and bullying that can go with that.

Much of primary school life revolves around God in the christian sense. Primary schools closed for the Popes funeral and other religios hollidays. The teacher prepares them for communion and conformation, and I just wouldnt want to make my child an outcast.

Then again Ireland is moving steadily more secular and I hope by the time I start raising a family these problems might have sorted themselves out, still though what are your experiences/opinions?

Stabshauptmann

is_that_so wrote:

As I said I acknowledge that it is an important and valid discussion however IMHO the discussion of the spiritual needs of a 19 month old child is questionable. There are more important needs at work at that age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

A motivation theory used in business?

Ok though I see how that could be used in other situations, though I’ve never discussed Maslow outside of a commerce scenario, it's not a definitive motivation theory.
As we move from a strict authoritarian paradigm to a more people centered approach issues like job satisfaction take a more prominent role.

But I get what your saying, Spirituality's not a priority yet*, but nobody has said its an immediate problem and if Jr.Shabadu started a thread about babies clothing I don’t thing there would be a huge response

Though Id disagree with you and think its something that should be discussed and explored from the earliest opportunity

ArthurDent

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

One thing Im not sure on and Id like some opinions here, should one baptize their children?

Personally Ive a few problems whith the Church, they're a matter for another thread, but Im wondering should I (when the day comes, and its a long long way away ) baptize my children.

The thing is I wouldnt feel right telling them believe A B and C because I wouldnt like the think Id forced something upon them. However by not baptizen' them Id be afraid that they'd be identified as being different and all the stigma and bullying that can go with that.

Much of primary school life revolves around God in the christian sense. Primary schools closed for the Popes funeral and other religios hollidays. The teacher prepares them for communion and conformation, and I just wouldnt want to make my child an outcast.

Then again Ireland is moving steadily more secular and I hope by the time I start raising a family these problems might have sorted themselves out, still though what are your experiences/opinions?

Well from a purely practical point of view, the answer is probably yes. Over 95% of primary schools are denominational and are allowed to specifically choose members of their own faith system over others, via their enrolment policies. If you children go to a denominational school, but are not practicing your kids will feel left out, in all liklihood. Maybe it would be better to cond=sider a ET school. Check out www.educatetogether.ie for their locations.

Talliesin

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I’ve never discussed Maslow outside of a commerce scenario

Personally, I've only heard Maslow discussed in terms of the questions of what ones spirituality does for ones life (and it's quite interesting to think about, on the one hand some spiritual activities do require a degree of stability on the other levels, on the other there's a reason why people say "there are no atheists in foxholes" as inaccurate as that may strictly be). I don't think it follows that we shouldn't prepare children for accomplishments and fulfilment on one of the steps in Maslow's heirarchy until we have completely trained them in the one below (even if you accept Maslow's theories).

Shabadu

I'd like to thank everyone again for advice and support.

Sociology is one of my degree subjects, is_that_so, and I have, of course, studied Maslow.

You seem to be implying that a child's needs at this stage fall in the first three layers of the pyramid, namely food warmth and shelter, physical safety, and emotional reassurance/love.

I've inferred from your meaning that esteem from ones peers and oneself, and self-actualisation aren't relevant to an infant.

Esteem, both from yourself, and from others is one of the strongest pulls as a child. Children judge everything they and their peers do, and are far harsher critics than adults. If you can make your child aware of themselves, and their own self-esteem, you can go a long way to reducing some of the negative impacts from their peers, that we all face. Children with higher self esteem are less likely to be persistently bullied, as the bullies won't get the result they want from the target.

Many people would argue that self-actualisation is never actually achieved for most people, and for those that do it is after many years of questioning and discovering oneself. This journey starts the day you are born, and it is my duty as a mother to try and help my son prepare for his life. You don't just feed and clothe your child for 18 years, give him a hug and then boot him out the door; as a parent, everything you say and do influences your child and the way they feel about themselves and carry themselves through the world.

As Thaed has pointed out, as a loving Mother she is already thinking about how she can help her daughter through puberty. I know that probably all of the other parents here are already concerned about things that are years away.

Talliesan, i'd love to get the name of that school from you, as we're looking at schools at the moment, and as Thaed points out you can really have a religous battle on your hands with a lot of teachers.

Talliesin

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

Talliesan, i'd love to get the name of that school from you, as we're looking at schools at the moment, and as Thaed points out you can really have a religous battle on your hands with a lot of teachers.

It is Rathfarnham Educate Together National School, one of the Educate Together schools ArthurDent mentioned above.

Nevyn

http://www.educatetogether.ie/

That is if you are lucky enough to have one near you.

MeatProduct

If anyone is interested I am certain there is an organisation of parents who teach their children from home, I could find you a contact number.

Nick

Zillah

I really want to be able to give my son some sort of options or theories on it.

I'm very liberal, and while I would describe myself as a christian, I do not go in for organised religion. I don't hold with the outdated practises and dictates of the church. I want my son to first and foremost regard everyone as an equal, and to know to treat himself and others with compassion, dignity and respect.

Your enlightened and downright fair attitude gives me great hopes for the future of this new forum, and tbh, humanity...

Nevyn

http://www.aislingmagazine.com/DaraMolloy/Writings/youreducationsystem.html
http://oscar.gen.tcd.ie/hen/ewb/Brutonsub.html

Cant find a way to contact them.

personally we decided against homeschooling. The kids need a break from me and I from them. The social skills and the interaction are mostly good for them
and they have to go out into the real world at some stage.

If there are any gaps or my kids want to progress quicker then they get help, time and encouragement they need at home.

Talliesin

There's pros and cons to home-schooling.

One worry I have about a side-effect of the fact that home-schooling does happen is that when someone sues the government for failing to safeguard Article 42.3.1 of the Constitution (only a matter of time before someone does) that the government will claim that the option of home-schooling is enough.

Shabadu

Cheers Zillah, I'm all chuffed wit meself now.

I don't think home schooling will work for me either, we'd really struggle if my boyfriend had to support us on his own. Also, like Thaed said, I'd probably drive him mad. He needs the contact with his peers as well, as it doesn't look like we're going to have another child, and I don't know anyone else with children.

On the baptism front, we did actually get him baptised, but mainly because his Great-Grandmother was dying and we were under pressure to do it for her. Also, it turned out to be a nice gesture for his godmothers.

is_that_so

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

A motivation theory used in business?

Ok though I see how that could be used in other situations, though I’ve never discussed Maslow outside of a commerce scenario, it's not a definitive motivation theory.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a method of humanistic determination. As you point out it is used as motivation model but that itself requires that very fundamental needs are addressed. It has long been used in many fields outside of commerce and to my mind is best associated with Carl Roger's theory of learning and instruction as a valid theory for learner motivation.