I'm Probably Preaching to the Converted Here But...

leggo

...somebody PLEASE try and justify Irish being mandatory for the Leaving Cert. I just wanna get some thoughts on this matter.

Gone West

I can just about hear a stampede of angry 2nd level students coming to rant and bitch and moan about this.

So, I'll start it off!:

Its the biggest waste of time ever, as there is nobody out there who speaks Irish but not English. You never have to use it in normal conversation. It takes up a serious amount of time in your school day. You have to learn it right from primary school. Most people arent interested in laerning irish. A lot of people are not suited to learning languages, yet they are forced to learn irish. (alternative is not do it, and therefore not be able to go to university).
Yes, it is a traditional thing, heritage and so on. But the fact of the matter is that Irish is just not worth the hassle.

Dublin's Finest

now that's a challenge....

it should be optional.

Gileadi

it was put in place when the new free state government got power in 1922 and was a popular policy among those who were influenced by the gaelic league and the revival of the irish language,enough backround...

basically theres no reason why not to learn it really,in alot of european countries they can speak 4 languages fluently and not a bother on them so why is it such a struggle for irish kids to learn something unique to the country?

if your struggling at it its simple,do pass irish. its designed so as that its really easy to pick up the 40% needed to matriculate for most collages(trinners and dcu excluded),if they did away with learning it from primary school which they wont btw as the government dont care as nobody in 1st/2nd level schools can vote apart from some 6th years so its not going to impact them in anyway shape or form but if they did you would be made to do another language in its place as in other countries and then the circle starts again

Scraggs

irish is great!
its part of our culture and its something to be proud of!! bet ya anything that 99.999% of irish people on holidays speak it so others cant understand what they're saying! Its so unique.. there arent many countries that have their own ''secret'' language to be proud of!!
admittedly the higher LC course can be quite challenging for some but i think the dept of ed are looking into changes so who knows...
anyone guess that i'm just a tad passionate about it!?! LOL

leggo

That's the thing Gileadi and Scraggs, I don't want to be FORCED to do a subject because it's good to use on holidays as a code in front of foreigners or because it's been around since the Free State. Latin has been around longer, doesn't mean it's of any use nowadays does it?

Don't get me wrong, I find it interesting and if I had the option probably WOULD do it. I do ordinary level and find it piss easy and LIKE to do it. I just find History more important in learning about what makes us Irish and see absolutely no reason for the subject to be mandatory anymore.

p~b

its the only thing that would make you wanna be english or american or another nationality

Of COURSE, it should be ****ing optional. It's a joke.

But that won't happen.

The people in charge of this country (and i don't just mean the government) are desperately fighting to retain some sort of Irish culture to make the country unique. They think that force feeding us the Irish language will do that.

Who's going to break the bad news to them? :rolleyes:

Dublinstiofán

I dont think it should be an optional subject at all.There are very few speaking it at the moment anyway only for the good owl west of Ireland it would be gone all together. The only reason were speaking English is because of the damn english in the first place. We were sorted at home here with our own language until they invaded, murdered pillaged and plundered ya know how the story goes. Its the only ****in thing we have left of our own and im tired of students sayin they dont want it.Cop on will yous? its a novely! How many other countries around the world can say that they speak the most spoken language in the world (english) but also have their own language to speak amongst themselves. It sucks that so many are takin it for granted ya have to do it anyway so why not enjoy it?
Shure its the handiest thing ever when your on holidays and there is some nosy person listenin into your conversation. Flick into Irish mode and your sorted. Even if your just sayin your name and address to each other ya will prove that ya know theyre listenin and they will either **** off or get pissed off listenin to what they cant understand .....mission accomplished!

Dublin's Finest

I'm all for Irish, not that I'm too good with it though. I actually think making it optional would do it a great deal of good. Put the emphasis on the oral tradition too, that way more people might become competent in Irish.

Dublinstiofán

One more thing most people dont realise 'Ni teanga ofigiúil i seo' i.e. its not a recognised official language and i think its the only one in Europe. Intead of bitchin about havin to learn it (and gettin nowhere i might add) students should be out tryin to get it recognised because that is a joke. There have been protests before but theres strength in numbers and thats the major problem. Not enought people feel strongly enought about this subject to do anything about it. Fair enough if ya dont care go ahead speakin your 'foreign language' because english shure as hell isnt ours!

Scraggs

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

I dont think it should be an optional subject at all.There are very few speaking it at the moment anyway only for the good owl west of Ireland it would be gone all together. The only reason were speaking English is because of the damn english in the first place. We were sorted at home here with our own language until they invaded, murdered pillaged and plundered ya know how the story goes. Its the only ****in thing we have left of our own and im tired of students sayin they dont want it.Cop on will yous? its a novely! How many other countries around the work can say that they speak the most spoken language in the world (english) but also have their own language to speak amongst themselves. It sucks that so many are takin it for granted ya have to do it anyway so why not enjoy it?
Shure its the handiest thing ever when your on holidays and there is some nosy person listenin into your conversation. Flick into Irish mode and your sorted. Even if your just sayin your name and address to each other ya will prove that ya know theyre listenin and they will either **** off or get pissed off listenin to what they cant understand .....mission accomplished!

Well said...an-mhaith ar fad!

Camogie Playa

if it wasn't so learning orientated, learning off poems and stories that are pointless.What we do at school isnt studying irish, just simply learning it, we should be learning about the history and background of irish and irish history, about your local areas and all that, basically it should be a subject called history of irish and ireland. like the stair na gaeilge is the only interesting thing on the course. go on criticise me its an outrageous idea but it would appeal to me and some of my friends.

Le Rack

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dublinstiofán

Come on im dyin for a good arguement somebody challenge me

Scraggs

Le Rack wrote:

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

waaaay harsh dude!!!!

Dublinstiofán

Le Rack wrote:

I Hate Irish It Should Burn In Hell And Be Optional For The Leaving Cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus your a leavin cert arnt ya? Thats a ****in stupid thing to say! Im delighted to know that ya prob have no choice in the matter anyway. If ya hate it so much why dont ya do pass or if your already doin pass foundation.Or just do some work and improve your irish. Your gonna look like the thick at the end of the day (if ya dont) anyway when either your brother or sister or your kids when your older ask ya a stupid ****in basic word like what does 'dorais' mean? and ya look stupid cause ya cant anwser them

upmeath

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

Scraggs

upmeath wrote:

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness..............................................................................................codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

at the risk of sounding like some weird peppy cheerleadeer for gaeilge.... well said upmeath! i'm aware i'm not adding anything valid at the moment but dont worry i'll shock ye all yet lol

Simi

we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

YES!!! You just don't seem to get it...It's completely ****ing useless. It wastes time and energy which we could be spending on other subjects or on learning another language we can actually use. And i'm sick to ****ing death of this heritage ****e. I don't speak Irish, my parents don't speak Irish and only 1 of my 4 grandparents can still speak Irish.

Kevo

Simi wrote:

YES!!! You just don't seem to get it...It's completely ****ing useless. It wastes time and energy which we could be spending on other subjects or on learning another language we can actually use. And i'm sick to ****ing death of this heritage ****e. I don't speak Irish, my parents don't speak Irish and only 1 of my 4 grandparents can still speak Irish.

Exactly, i cant stand it when people try to defend Irish being mandatory. Especially when they say "you can just move to ordinary level its easy". Why do that when I could be doing a different less dead langauge at higher level.



QUOTE=upmeath]we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?[/QUOTE]

Not everyone is good at languages. Im only good at mathematical/memory based subjects. Same applies for most of the people in my class. So its not just laziness!!!!!

What do you mean its because its who we are!!!! When I finish my leaving cert I will never speak Irish again and im sure the same goes for most people. Its nothing to do with who we are anymore. The langauge is dead.

randomfella

people have lost a sense of culture nowadays. If irish was optional nobody would do it. people who don't like irish aren't good at languages or else don't give it the same effort because they won't use it in the future. Official language or not, the revival of the language is getting people to speak it not getting it some special status bull****.

Cool_CM

reason to learn irish= PAISEAN FAISEAN !!!!(what a show)
I'm all for irish, just not in the way its forced upon senior cycle students faoi lathair. I see no point whatsoever in learning about stair na gaeilge, lets face it, you can keep on repeating arguments about our aincient heritage till your blue in the face, but no 6th year actually gives a toss about stair, the only reason it's learned is because it's 30 marks that you can't afford to lose, is there any practical reason for learning it? no. is anybody ever going to hold a gun to your head and threaten to pull the trigger unless you can tell him/her about an ruraiocht? probably not. it would be more interesting and worthwhile to actually learn bout irish films+tv and things we can associate with
eg. a question on hector(granted he can't speak irish, but at least he tries and has probably done more to promote the language than peig) or paisean faisean would go down just great. otherwise i have no problems with it.

Le Rack

I'll have you know I did honours for JC and got an A and am still at honours. I never said I could't handle it I just said I didn't like it and I hate the teacher and I'm not going to let some soul sucking old bat get in the way of me getting my points and getting into the profession I want to be in!! so tá mé ar mhuin na muice!!!!!

Le Rack

I love English its so bloody easy! I'm doing higher in all subjects for my leaving and its fine I just dont like Irish

Le Rack

Exactly when are we ever going to use Irish in the real world upmeath!!??

Le Rack

Kevo wrote:

Exactly, i cant stand it when people try to defend Irish being mandatory. Especially when they say "you can just move to ordinary level its easy". Why do that when I could be doing a different less dead langauge at higher level.



QUOTE=upmeath]we should all have to do irish. not just because its our heritage but because its what we are. and i think its a poor reflection on someone as a person if they're not studying it at higher level, its pure laziness.
look at all the ****e we have to work through studying english- a higher level english student needs to be able to quote from a shakespearean play, discussing characters, themes, relationships (who "speakeths like this" anymore anyway?) they must also know three comparative texts just to show they can compare different texts and hence draw comparisons in the big bad world, and you need to know between 30 and 50 poems inside out. then there's essay-writing (granted, we need journalists) and comprehensions, and all those dreaded modes of language. codswallop i mo thuairimse, and an overly-time consuming subject for the benefits it offers.
is irish so bad after all?

Not everyone is good at languages. Im only good at mathematical/memory based subjects. Same applies for most of the people in my class. So its not just laziness!!!!!

What do you mean its because its who we are!!!! When I finish my leaving cert I will never speak Irish again and im sure the same goes for most people. Its nothing to do with who we are anymore. The langauge is dead.[/QUOTE]
Yes!!

rainbow kirby

Quadruple post?! :eek: Use the edit button!
Anyways... speaking as one who's a few years out of having to do Irish (and quite proud of her ordinary level A2), my opinion is that Irish should be compulsory to Junior Cert (get a broad foundation), but an option at Leaving Cert. The teaching of the language needs to be radically overhauled though. It should be taught in a similar way to the continental languages, that is with a much greater emphasis on communication. The current course does nothing to promote Irish as a living language. Literature could be introduced for honours, but more emphasis should be placed on speaking, writing and reading. Another reason why it should be an option at LC is that most students know by the age of 15/16 whether they have an aptitude for languages or not. I knew early on that I was mathematically minded, and it always annoyed me that I had to do English, Irish and French in school when I could have been doing something more relevant (which would take me onto my rant about Computer Science being introduced as a Leaving Cert subject, but that's waaaaay off-topic here).

Lantis

I'm in full agreement that Irish is important, but the current LC course is a joke. Something needs to change, either by rehauling the course or making it optional.
Look at it this way, if it was being taught as a living language, why are we just studying poetry and literature? That really gives off the impression that it's an old dead language, and only alive in the stories and poetry.
I'd say about 60-70% of people who enjoy Irish and learning it get completely put off by the course for the LC. I mean, come on now, this is a language most people don't get real exposure to except in class time, and they're expected to be as fluent as in English for the exam? And it requires twice as much coursework to cover, not even counting the fact that it's all in Irish?
Really, the Department of Education needs to get a grip, because all they're doing is making people resent/hate the language.

randomfella

did anybody hear that report, don't quote me on this but around 5200 hours are spent by students learning irish - junior infants to sixth year, and some peole haven't even got a basic grasp of the language and feel nervous talking in irish etc..

^^^^^^^^^
This is a complete sham.

Camogie Playa

Not saying that Irish isnt important, it is part of our heritage that nearly got destroyed.but the teaching of it is brutal, they are teaching it the way it was taught way back 70 or 80 years when they were trying to keep irish alive and to try and get people to have some fluency in it.Agree totally the teaching of it should be changed radically.it should concentrate more on speaking it!and not learning about crappy poems and storys that are of no relevance whatsover.
Thought Hector was fluent at Irish? Paisean Faisean is the bomb!i watch it religously every Monday night.

4Xcut

1)You don't have a choice and so there is no point bitching about it.

2)It is true that forcing it on us is not making it more popular but if it was optional you wolud have to do a second europen language. And having experience in irish, french and german i can say that irish is much less technically challenging from a gramatical point and also easier in general if people would just get over the mental thing of "i don't wanna di it cos dere makin' me".

3)The major problem is the poor standard its thaught to in primary level education. I am the only person i know that has a good foundation in irish. I aced my junior cert on my primary school irish, in 5th year it still carries me a good chunk of the way through the honours course. A better standard in primary school would ease so much pressure in 2nd level.

4)Its your F**KING language you ungrateful, americanised, undererving of the title of being irish, petty, small minded people.

4Xcut wrote:

1)You don't have a choice and so there is no point bitching about it.

2)It is true that forcing it on us is not making it more popular but if it was optional you wolud have to do a second europen language. And having experience in irish, french and german i can say that irish is much less technically challenging from a gramatical point and also easier in general if people would just get over the mental thing of "i don't wanna di it cos dere makin' me".

3)The major problem is the poor standard its thaught to in primary level education. I am the only person i know that has a good foundation in irish. I aced my junior cert on my primary school irish, in 5th year it still carries me a good chunk of the way through the honours course. A better standard in primary school would ease so much pressure in 2nd level.

4)Its your F**KING language you ungrateful, americanised, undererving of the title of being irish, petty, small minded people.

1) Wow! Great view on oppression, there. Good luck with that.

2) Yes, god forbid we learn a useful language instead. German is not as complicated as Irish. I've learnt to speak it fluently and it's a walk in the park in comparison.

3) I agree, the way it is taught is pathetic.

4) Not everyone in Ireland is Irish, but they still have to learn Irish (especially if they plan on third level education here. you need irish for some courses).

So what if it is "our" language? It's not coming back.

CoffeeFreak

I think it should be optional. Yes, I know it's part of the culture, but how can you love a language when it's stopping you getting the points you need? I'm crap at irish because of a bad foundation at primary school and up to junior cert, but I really need to get an A in it. If I had the option of doing a second european language I'd probably get an A and not have to spend so much time studying it as I do Irish. Personally, I think the only purpose of the leaving cert is to decide your career, not an oppertunity to force your culture on you :mad: .
Oh yeah, and for most of the people studying it it's usless because they'll never speak it again. English isn't useless, maths isn't useless, that arguement doesn't exist for the other cumpulsory subjects! Sure some people will use it, but the majority won't.

johnnyq

Defo Irish should b compulsary, but it should be taught just like French/German. No stories,poems etc.. Dere should b a compulsary Oral for Junior Cert 2.
To Simi: If we got ourselves copped on we could actually use it. There should b Irish clubs in schools just to speak Irish, cos it would b a laugh and it would help 4 da oral.

Simi

Defo Irish should b compulsary, but it should be taught just like French/German. No stories,poems etc.. Dere should b a compulsary Oral for Junior Cert 2.
To Simi: If we got ourselves copped on we could actually use it. There should b Irish clubs in schools just to speak Irish, cos it would b a laugh and it would help 4 da oral.

Not on my ship! Do you know how much money is pumped into forcing Irish down our throats by the government every year? In excess of €500million. Don't we have a useless health service that could use a bit of cash? Is forcing thousands of students to learn Irish in the hope that maybe a dozen of them will actually use it when they leave school a little less important than making sure old people don't have to spend days on end lying in trolleys in hospital hallways.
The government has to wake up and get its prioritys straight. Maybe channeling some of that money into renovating schools might be a good idea, so we don't have to sit in buildings that if were not for the fact they are school buildings would be condemed and demolished.
And finally a friend of mine can't do Arabic for his leaving because its on at the same time as Irish paper 2. Surely the board of education after forcing him to learn Irish would schedule the Arabic exam at a later date, but no, in their infinite wisdom they have decided that no1 could possibly be doing Irish AND Arabic. Thats my rant for tonight.

*Angel*

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

I dont think it should be an optional subject at all.There are very few speaking it at the moment anyway only for the good owl west of Ireland it would be gone all together. The only reason were speaking English is because of the damn english in the first place. We were sorted at home here with our own language until they invaded, murdered pillaged and plundered ya know how the story goes. Its the only ****in thing we have left of our own and im tired of students sayin they dont want it.Cop on will yous? its a novely! How many other countries around the world can say that they speak the most spoken language in the world (english) but also have their own language to speak amongst themselves. It sucks that so many are takin it for granted ya have to do it anyway so why not enjoy it?
Shure its the handiest thing ever when your on holidays and there is some nosy person listenin into your conversation. Flick into Irish mode and your sorted. Even if your just sayin your name and address to each other ya will prove that ya know theyre listenin and they will either **** off or get pissed off listenin to what they cant understand .....mission accomplished!

I'm in total agreement, well said! and johnnyq is right we shouldn't have to bother learning the stories and poetry.

BTW there was quite a long thread on this subject in After Hours bout a month ago.

Lantis

4Xcut wrote:

1)You don't have a choice and so there is no point bitching about it.

And you don't think it possible we might want to save future students the stress?

4Xcut wrote:

2)It is true that forcing it on us is not making it more popular but if it was optional you wolud have to do a second europen language. And having experience in irish, french and german i can say that irish is much less technically challenging from a gramatical point and also easier in general if people would just get over the mental thing of "i don't wanna di it cos dere makin' me".

How do you know? Loads of people sit the LC without even doing one European language, what makes you think they'd have 2 forced on them?

4Xcut wrote:

3)The major problem is the poor standard its thaught to in primary level education. I am the only person i know that has a good foundation in irish. I aced my junior cert on my primary school irish, in 5th year it still carries me a good chunk of the way through the honours course. A better standard in primary school would ease so much pressure in 2nd level.

Good for you.
It depends on the teacher. It always depends on the teacher. You can't generalise for something like primary school, because each one has its own syllabus.
I went to two primary schools, the first was a small school where one teacher covered 4 classes at a time, and the standard of Irish taught was excellent. The second was a large school, and luckily the class I ended up in had another high standard of Irish, although I'd been told one of the other teachers was absolutely crap at teaching it.

4Xcut wrote:

4)Its your F**KING language you ungrateful, americanised, undererving of the title of being irish, petty, small minded people.

Speaking of petty...
Anyway, like I said before, if it's our language we should be learning to speak it, not learning literature and poetry as we would a dead language. At least the JC course was more practical than that.

Shyster

Has anybody ever even been to the Gaeltacht?? I dont mean a summer course for three weeks where u speak irish when theres a ceannaire around, i mean has anyone ever been to Spiddle or an Daingean?
We went there last summer in fifth year and it was the best laugh ever, the pride people have in their heritage is unreal.
Fair enough if you say WHO CARES ABOUT OUR HERITAGE? but i dont think that students realise that we need to keep up this "image" to bring tourists to the country ie. money.
I hate putting it down to the material things but when people are so ignorant about their patriotism, its the only way to get the point across..
Its an easy honour in the leaving so why complain?? If we dropped it for the leaving its a waste of 11years learning it up to junior cert. and you have to keep up another subject and learn it in detail.
Orals on monday, easy a, so why complain??
oh....this might have something to do with the fact that Im in a gaelscoil...

the smiley one

<Jonny> wrote:

4) Not everyone in Ireland is Irish, but they still have to learn Irish (especially if they plan on third level education here. you need irish for some courses).

So what if it is "our" language? It's not coming back.

This clearly shows that you know nothing about the subject you are discussing. There are such things called "examptions" which you get get, yes to have it, to be exempt from Irish. For example a friend of mine from the middle east who lives here, doesn't have to do it and doesn't need it for getting into college. This is a subject I feel really passionately about because I think it is ridiculous and immature the way people my age are constantly complaining about the fact that it is compulsory. First of all it is our national language (which is currently in the process of trying to be recognised as an official european language, i think). Now I don't know if all these anti-Irish are up for a monoculture but I see making it uncompulsory as a step in that direction. Also people are constantly complaining about how useless it is and how they will never use it. I could have got by in life with primary school 4th class standard maths but yet I am still forced to do it for my LC - where's the sense in that? on top of all of this Irish is a beautiful language which is much more expressive than english, and maybe if people actually went to the bother of learning it then they would realise how important it is

Kevo wrote:

Not everyone is good at languages. Im only good at mathematical/memory based subjects. Same applies for most of the people in my class. So its not just laziness!!!!!

How exactly do you think you learn a language if not through memory???!!!!!

randomfella

the smiley one wrote:

How exactly do you think you learn a language if not through memory???!!!!!

Through application of memory. i find it easy to remember words but sentence construction and grammar lets me down a bit. My intelligence isn't linguistically based. try here maybe if you spend a few minutes on this u will see what im talking about.

the smiley one wrote:

This clearly shows that you know nothing about the subject you are discussing. There are such things called "examptions" which you get get, yes to have it, to be exempt from Irish. For example a friend of mine from the middle east who lives here, doesn't have to do it and doesn't need it for getting into college.

In my school, if you are exempt from Irish you just sit at the back of the class.

Isn't that unfair? Shouldn't those students be doing a different subject instead? They don't even have the option.

Scarinae

<Jonny> wrote:

In my school, if you are exempt from Irish you just sit at the back of the class.

Isn't that unfair? Shouldn't those students be doing a different subject instead? They don't even have the option.

Huh? Can't they just go to supervision or something? that's what they do in my, same if they have a free class

No, there's no "supervision" in my school. If a teacher is absent, a supervisor is assigned to the specific class.

That still leaves them with one less subject than everyone else.

the smiley one

<Jonny> wrote:

In my school, if you are exempt from Irish you just sit at the back of the class.

Isn't that unfair? Shouldn't those students be doing a different subject instead? They don't even have the option.

That is just particular to your school - in my school they take these as supervised "free" classes which doesn't imping on their school work First of all (I'm taking my school again because it's all i know...) in my school we do 8 subjects and many students drop a subject anyway so they only have 7. Also the foreign students could do an extra subject on top of this outside school. And on top of all of that, they should know before they get here that that is the way the system works. getting slightly off topic........

randomfella wrote:

Through application of memory. i find it easy to remember words but sentence construction and grammar lets me down a bit. My intelligence isn't linguistically based. try here maybe if you spend a few minutes on this u will see what im talking about.

I'm kinda getting what you are saying but grammar and sentence structure is linked in with matematical apptitude, so technically you should also be giving out about the fact that maths is a compulsory subject for the LC as well as giving out about irish. If one why not the other?

Oh, i see! CEAD MILE FAILTE! YOU'RE ALL WELCOME HERE! We're a multicultural society! Actually, if you want a decent and untroubled education you had better **** off.

randomfella

the smiley one wrote:

I'm kinda getting what you are saying but grammar and sentence structure is linked in with matematical apptitudeQUOTE]
No sorry your wrong there. Its lingustic intelligence, mathematical apptitude is quite different. see?

the smiley one

<Jonny> wrote:

Oh, i see! CEAD MILE FAILTE! YOU'RE ALL WELCOME HERE! We're a multicultural society! Actually, if you want a decent and untroubled education you had better **** off.

actually we have one of the best education systems in the world. And I never said anything about us being a multicultural society; when foreigners come here to live they have a certain responsibilty to know what they are getting themselves into in the first place i.e.that irish is a compulsory subject for all LC students; thats all (again we are grossly off-topic)

randomfella wrote:

No sorry your wrong there. Its lingustic intelligence, mathematical apptitude is quite different

ok ok so, lets go on the premise that linguistic ability has absolutely NOTHING to do with mathematical aptitude (even though it doesn't say so on the link, it does say that they are different, not necessarily independant) why are you then not arguing that english should also not be made compulsory for the LC. and that it too, along with irish, is useless? (or could it be because you just couldn't be arsed learning the language.................)

exiztone

The Irish syllabus should be drastically changed or permanently removed from the Leaving Cert. As far as I'm concerned, it's the biggest waste of time during my school day.

"It's our heritage, you HAVE to identify with your culture!"
No, it's really not. Irish has been bastardised so much, what's left is not a nice (nor practical) result [N.B. I'm talking in terms of the Leaving Cert here]. They're trying to revive a dead language into the modern world and making it appear more appealing by mixing it with pop culture. For my LC mock, I had an essay on Eminem... I seem to recall words like 'rapadóir' which made me cringe. Then there was a Junior Cert aural which started "Is mise Bart Simpson!" and spoken by some crazy Irish fella... that is NOT our culture... besides, I'm not exactly going to run and do things just because my forefathers did it... let's see, wasn't Druidism the common religion before Christianity took over. I don't remember learning about that aspect of our culture in my religion class... why not? Isn't that our heritage too?

"But you're Irish and it's our first official language!"
Actually, to be fair, my surname sounds more Anglo-Saxon to me, and as far as I know, the family migrated here during the Cromwellian Plantation. That doesn't mean I'm not Irish or anything, I'm just saying most people have Anglo roots. And if by logic, you assume we should speak Irish because the people here spoke it before us... shouldn't every school in the United States make Hopi and other native languages compulsory to learn? After all... it's the heritage of the true Americans... even though the American population would have mostly Caucasian Anglo-Saxon roots...

Irish wouldn't bother me as much if it was approached properly... but a mix of a disgusting course and clueless teachers just doesn't help. French was taught to me starting from the basic grammar, then through rules and exceptions... I can speak it extremely well now; I could have a good genuine conversation with a francophone. Irish... okay, I seem to recall in third year learning about 11 irregular verbs, bar that, they expect you to be able to speak it fluently when they slap a book of bad poetry and short stories in front of you.

What do I do about the problem? Well, naturally I go to my Irish teacher and ask her politely "Miss, could you please help me understand how to make the simple past, present and future tenses?" to which she replies "Ummm, well, I err... I don't know... what do you want to say?". Yes, that's it... just what we need, a human translator that we can't bring into the exams with us *clap clap*. Reminds me of that proverb, "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life."

My teacher and many others are lacking at understanding the language and its structure themselves. I lodged a complaint and had a long talk with my guidance counsellor about her incompetence. What did he tell me? "I'm sorry, she was the only substitute we could find because Irish teachers are so hard to come by!"

So really, the problem is that we need more Irish teachers... but wait? Who is going into teaching these days? It's one of the worst paid jobs ever and looking at what some of the teachers at my school have to put up with every day, I honestly don't think it's particularly rewarding. So that's tracing back to what... the minister of finance or the minister of education, the budget... and thus the state. It's the state that wants us to identify our language, not me... if I had the choice, I wouldn't learn it (that's saying a lot, seeing I don't actually learn it anyway)... so.. if the state is forcing me to do something I don't want to do... and then don't do it properly... of course I'm going to resent it.

I promise the day my exams are over, I won't touch it with a ten-foot pole...

Shyster

I agree, a lot of student's problems with irish stem from the lack of good quality irish teachers in school. Thankfully Im lucky enough to have a cainteoir dúchais teaching me irish who understands it's place in our world today.....basically it wouldnt be in many teenagers top 100 things to do, to speak a language that "isnt their own"...

The only problem with saying that we dont learn irish "properly" is that it cant possibly be taught to us like a foreign language ie. the way we learn french through grammar and then progress to vocab.
It wouldnt work. Most of us have been learning irish since our first day in primary school and by the time we've reached an age where we can learn grammar in the ... 'mathematical way' {for want of a better word}, we're more than halfway through primary school and already have a fairly good grasp of the irish language. At that stage no one wants to sit through hours of grammar classes in a language they can speak coherently already.

I dont think there should be as much poetry and literature on our leaving cert course, at least not the old fashioned ones anyway but there we go again with the culture and heritage thing...
So if ur one of the ones who just plain hates irish-be thankful you're nearly finished with it now. In case you hadnt noticed, Im not one of them!

exiztone

Shyster wrote:

At that stage no one wants to sit through hours of grammar classes in a language they can speak coherently already.

If that were even slightly true, there would be absolutely no need for threads like this... unfortunately that's false. If anything, it's my French class where I can enjoy a good conversation en francais...

As Gaeilge? No chance...