Is this acceptable behavior

TheMonster

Just interested in getting peoples opinions on this. Wasn't sure of best place to post so thought parents might have some feedback on whether it would be acceptable for their kids.

Recently moved into an estate and over the last few days(guess its the first time the kids have been on holidays and there has been decent weather)

A group of about 8 kids(We are talking about 12/13 years olds here, 2 of which are actually from our road) have decided to have a full scale rounders match outside of our house, this involves hitting the ball wherever they want, into peoples gardens,under cars and running though same after the ball with no regard to what damage they cause, trampling flower beds, hedges etc.

They also play a hide/chasing game where they hide wherever they want, including under cars in peoples gardens etc.

To me this is unacceptable and we shouldn't have to put up with it, especially as there is a park at the end of the road.

Would parents here allow their kids to do this?

Alanna

I don't think anyone here would let their children behave like that and I guess that the parents of the children in question think that they are out playing a harmless game of rounders. Why don't you tell them(nicely) to play in the park?

TheMonster

Tried that - One of them was getting the ball from our garden and I went out and asked her what she was doing as it was private property. "Getting the ball" was the reply I got. I told her in future to knock and ask for it and also suggested they play in the park, she looked stunned, didn't stop them either.

Gaz

Knock in to get the ball from your front garden ? Seriously ?

b3t4

They are kids and are playing a game. To be honest, count your lucky stars, there is much worse things that they could be doing. Also, you appear to be more concerned about some hedges and plants than these kids, that to me doesn't say a lot for you.

I have heard of estates where the kids think it is fun to set bags alight and place them at the front door of their neighbours.

A.

irlirishkev

I can see how this would annoy me aswell.. However, in one sense you should be glad that's all they're doing.
I lived in East Wall for a while and the local kids thought it would be funny to throw wet plaster at all the cars parked around the estate. Some builder had left it behind him. Dunno who I was angrier with.. him or the kids..
I was egged aswell when walking home from work one day, by some little gurrier..
Anyway.. at least that's not happening to you, but like I say, I sympathise..

K.

TheMonster

Darth Homer wrote:

Knock in to get the ball from your front garden ? Seriously ?

I am more trying to force them to go to the park - which is at the top of the road - figure that If I make it hard they will move on. Its a bit annoying when you spend a weekend planting flowers and making the garden look decent when yuo have kids stampeding through it to get a ball. Wouldn't be too bad if they just walked in and got it but usually its hurdel the wall into the flower bed - run through another and the same on the way back out.

ButcherOfNog

i can see where the poster is coming from, but its probably better from the parents of the kids point of view that they are playing where they can see them. its a double edged sword really, when you have kids that age you'll prolly rather they played where you can keep an eye on them rather than 'in the park'. my suggestion is not to plant flowers

TheMonster

6/7 years old maybe. These are 12/13 years olds, in secondary school uniforms so I would imagine that age. What gives anyone a right to destroy other peoples property?

cormie

We used to always play rounders in our estate. We would play on the road with houses on either side. We would take care going into gardens, but it had to be done. Your involved in a team game and it's you against them. Rounders was a great part of my childhood. Great fun.

There was a park in our estate but it was downhill so it wasn't ideal. Playing on the road gave obstacles and you also had the bases set out (base 1 would be a tree, base two an electricity box etc). Maybe they feel safer playing in the estate too? And it's only a tennis ball I presume so it can't do much damage.

You could run out in good spirit and get the ball and run up to the park and tell them to play there. As a child, if someone complains to you about playing rounders they are considered the bad adults on the estate so it could have further implications for you, watch out.

Just don't let them know your boards username, it will come back on you;)

RicardoSmith

Well personally I know how this can become extremely stressful. But I hate to tell you that theres no solution. If an area becomes popular with kids, its always popular with them. Once this generation gets bored along comes the next one. If they won't move, and if the parents won't move them, then the only option is the community garda. But this is a road to nowhere the majority of the time.

In fairness anyone who dismisses this kinda thing as just kids playing is leaving in fantasy land. If kids loss the respect of adults and of property it causes all sorts of problems. Eventually they can torment a house owner. If a kid comes into you garden and trips and breaks his neck, the parent will sue the owner.

Its antisocial behaviour but theres nothing you can do about it. You might get them to move on for short periods of time, but they always come back to the same spot. You can try parking awkwardly in front of the house, so that it makes if difficult for the kids. Buy a dog, put a fence up, smear it with that stuff the wrecks clothes that kinda thing. But really do you want go that route.

vector

cormie wrote:

...There was a park in our estate but it was downhill so it wasn't ideal....

Same where I lived. A huge green area but it was on a 30degree slope

cormie

I wouldn't go calling the guards. We didn't think to well of those who did on us for simply kicking a football around outside someones house. Just doing kick ups to eachother, not even going into their garden :rolleyes:

Personally I would be happy with kids running around having a laugh, it's good to see people playing rounders and that. It's hardly anti-social behavior either. It's good for them and they could be doing allot worse. It probably brings a bit of life to the area too.

RicardoSmith

vector wrote:

Same where I lived. A huge green area but it was on a 30degree slope

Shocking. 30 degs?

cormie wrote:

I wouldn't go calling the guards. We didn't think to well of those who did on us for simply kicking a football around outside someones house. Just doing kick ups to eachother, not even going into their garden :rolleyes:

Personally I would be happy with kids running around having a laugh, it's good to see people playing rounders and that. It's hardly anti-social behavior either. It's good for them and they could be doing allot worse. It probably brings a bit of life to the area too.

Well you are missing the point. If someone complains about it then you should move on. If you don't, well your just being ignorant. Its like playing loud music, etc. Its anti social to people who don't want you to do it. They are in the right not you! Or perhaps you think playing on roads and hanging around outside other people houses (who don't want you there) is ok?

cormie

Well to be honest, I actually do think it's ok. I mean, the street belongs to everyone, the society we live in is too obsessed with property, boundaries, law suits and legalities. It's sad in a way. Memories of such times for children when they are adults will sooth the mind etc. Like playing a field, it's not your field, but when I think back of me running around in fields without a care, it brings a warmth to me.

I think people complain too much anyway. They should be happy to see people enjoying themselves.

When I hear loud music in my area, I like it, it's a sign of life, a sign somebody is enjoying themselves. I have my music at full volume as we speak :rolleyes:

That's just my oppinion. I like the idea of a laid back world, lying down in the sun with some grass in your mouth soaking up the sun, insects crawling over me the sound of bees and butterflies.

RicardoSmith

I'd say the farmer is still pissed at the hundreds of pounds worth of damage you did to his crops, which meant that he couldn't bring his kids on holdiay. :mad: But hey, you're happy so who give a monkeys about any one else eh?

Basically I'm alright jack so screw you. Lovely. :cool:

cormie

Fields of grass!! :rolleyes:

Basically I'm alright jack so screw you. Lovely.

No, it's not like that. It's more like, Chill our Jack, enjoy the weather, get out some water balloons and join in Jack. You'll love it Jack, ya'll right there now Jack. Ah Jack, you got me good, I'm soaking I tells ya, soaking Jack. I'll get ya back Jack

RicardoSmith

cormie wrote:

Fields of grass!! :rolleyes:

What do animals eat? its a crop... :rolleyes:

cormie wrote:

No, it's not like that. It's more like, Chill our Jack, enjoy the weather, get out some water balloons and join in Jack. You'll love it Jack, ya'll right there now Jack. Ah Jack, you got me good, I'm soaking I tells ya, soaking Jack. I'll get ya back Jack

So there you are studying at home and some gits are outside whacking a ball about and cranking heavy metal/west life outside your door. Basically like I said once you think its ok, then its ok. Regardless of other people rights or wishes.

cormie

well yeah, if somebody is studying a simple "do you mind going somewhere else please" will do, but the world I was talking about wouldn't involve study, or work, or stresses. Just sunny days and people playing and having fun.

RicardoSmith

cormie wrote:

well yeah, if somebody is studying a simple "do you mind going somewhere else please" will do, but the world I was talking about wouldn't involve study, or work, or stresses. Just sunny days and people playing and having fun.

Yes .. and then theres the real world...

Hobbes

I would be more worried driving over one of the kids who was hiding under the car. Rounders, its all fun and games until they break something.

cormie

RicardoSmith wrote:

Yes .. and then theres the real world...

hehe, yeah, I blame the corporations after watching the Michael Moore documentary on them.

I would be more worried driving over one of the kids who was hiding under the car. Rounders, its all fun and games until they break something.

Sure isn't everything really? They may break something but surely it's healthier than having them sitting inside watching tv and playing the computer :cool:

RicardoSmith

cormie wrote:

...
Sure isn't everything really? They may break something but surely it's healthier than having them sitting inside watching tv and playing the computer :cool:

Yes well well it won't be very healthy for them if they break a window in the car or house. Hard to run on crutches....

Souperfreak

I don't mind the neighborhood kids playing in our garden but last week pulling into the driveway one of them pulled his bike straight in front of my car one inch from the bumper. His ignorant parents were no where in sight. I nearly killed the little f***er. If I would have hit him it would have been my fault.

It's simple....go for the law on this one.....

they are on your property and you don't want them there it is tresspassing. I realise it is just a game.

But being devil's advocate here what if one of the kids trips n falls and sues you. You are liable.

Tell them to go away if they don't go to there parents. If nothing then get the gards.

Nevyn

Go to the garda ? Good Luck.

It used to be that a parent/adult could catch a misbehacing youngster by the
collar and bring him/her to the parents door and the parents would listen and believe and deal with thier child.

Now you get yelled at for even shouting at thier children, and threathened with charges of assult for pointing your finger at a child. The kids lie and thier parents believe them.

You have to stand up to them but it can be hard.

iguana

cormie wrote:

I have my music at full volume as we speak :rolleyes:

That's just my oppinion. I like the idea of a laid back world, lying down in the sun with some grass in your mouth soaking up the sun, insects crawling over me the sound of bees and butterflies.

Would I be right in thinking that you were smoking certain illegal substances at the time too?

Even in a perfect world (anarchist utopia type thing) people have to work. Exactly where do you think you will get your food, clothing, place to live, computer to type stoned bulls**t on?

To the op, perhaps you should try and reason with the kids. Come to a comprimise, perhaps such as they can get their ball from your garden but only if they walk through the gate and keep out of your flowers beds. They might surprise you.

magpie

It used to be that a parent/adult could catch a misbehacing youngster by the
collar and bring him/her to the parents door and the parents would listen and believe and deal with thier child.

Now you get yelled at for even shouting at thier children, and threathened with charges of assult for pointing your finger at a child. The kids lie and thier parents believe them.

You have to stand up to them but it can be hard.

Bingo!

The problem is kids have no respect for property/adults at all, as their lazy useless parents don't care what they're up to as long as they're not interfering with them watching football on SKY and drinking cans at home.

I'm constantly having to chase little neighbourhood toerags out of my garden as they don't understand concepts like 'property' and 'respect'. Of course its probably directly related to not understanding concepts like 'mortgage' and 'work' as the Corpo provides them with free houses. They also drop litter everywhere as 'someone else will pick it up'.

vixen2005

well i think the main problem every where is they just cram houses together for get the kids and a tiny green where is to far away for younger kids! it should be law to desigh an estate with a generous green between a certain number of houses ...... what ever happened the swing and slides for all to play on.

but under the cars and trampling on every thing i dont agree with either,
really have the problem is so many kids go missing these days parents warn them not to go far away,,, look at that poor boy in cork for instance
i guess its a no win situation some one will always not be happy.
i guess you dont have kids but perhaps if you approched their parents in a civil manor they might help ya out

not all kids have "no respect" we teach ours to respect elders and do as told they are gave out to if they do some thing wrong but some times its hard to have eyes on the back of your head

*Page*

i would love if the 12-13 year olds in my estate where doing that!!
its great to see children(they are still that!) acting like children!

what damage are they doing? flowers that will die soon or what. hiding under cars they'd get out of the way if you where to get into it!!

RicardoSmith

*Page* wrote:

i would love if the 12-13 year olds in my estate where doing that!!
its great to see children(they are still that!) acting like children!

what damage are they doing? flowers that will die soon or what. hiding under cars they'd get out of the way if you where to get into it!!

Plants and gardens cost time and money. How about they key the side of your car, or dent a panel or two. Thats the same difference from a financial point of view. Just because you don't give a crap about something doesn't mean it has no value or that damaging it isn't a criminal act. At the end of the day you either respect other peoples property and rights, or you don't. Its that clear cut.

I also don't see why somebody else should suffer someone else kids because their parents can't be arsed to supervise their leisure time properly.

*Page*

rounders match in this game you hit a ball and try catch it! running in and out of gardens trampling flower beds and hedges this is a pain but is not the same financial cost of fixing a car!!hide/chasing is another harmless game.. my god you are such an old misser!!!

If it bothers you that much go to the kids parents or put a fence on the front of your house!

b3t4

When we were kids we used to play in the fields of a local farmer. He had told us that it was ok and he had no problem with us being on his land. One year we were playing in a field that was going to be used for silage and managed to flatten some of the grass. We didn't realise at the time, when we were playing, that that is what the grass was going to be used for. We were just children and were unaware of the running of a farm. The farmer spoke to us about it and we then understood why he didn't want us to play in certain fields. We respected him for that and didn't play in fields if we felt it was for silage. We continued to roam around his fields for a good couple of years.

Another farmer who had land adjacent to the land of the above farmers wasn't as pleasant. He under no circumstances wanted us to be on his land. One day we accidentally ended up on his land. We had been accustomed to roaming around farm land and would never dream of opening gates or that. We preferred to climb over or under them. This farmer rang up our parents and told them how we had left a gate open. We developed very little respect for this farmer.

Why not treat the children with a little respect? They aren't aware how their behaviour is having an affect. They probably don't even realise that what they are doing is causing offense or harm. They are only children after all, it is us who are the adults and have to behave in that manner. Children are around to learn from all the adults in their life not just their parents. An idea if an incident of this nature happens again is to politely point out to the children for them to be more careful of your garden if they want to get their ball. Or, if you do want them to ask permission first to not be so aggresive when saying this to them. Be pleasant and friendly so that they won't be afraid to ask for the ball.

Children are not going to behave as adults would and expecting them to just know things is kinda harsh.

Also, OP you said how they do not play on the green. Have you asked the children why they are not playing on the green? Maybe they have a very valid reason for not doing so. If they have a valid reason would you go about doing something so that they would have somewhere to play. Or would you prefer they sit in their houses in front of the television or play station?

A.

RicardoSmith

All very worthy ideals but so very naive.

Once you've actually created a garden, taken a few years of your own labour to do it. Will you let and a few mates run through it, trampling over everthing and run through the hedge a few times? I can guarantee you that you won't let me. The fact that you don't l think its of any value says it all.

How about I hit a few tennis balls at your car? Sure a dent in a quarter panel is a laugh! And of course when they start hanging around the cars, then they usually end up horsing around and accidents are more likely to happen. Sure a few scratches won't bother anyone.

Yes and if you think you can ask politely and they'll move on your logic is flawed. Either you've lived a very sheltered life or are just naive. Thats just doesn't work. Either they have the manners to know its wrong. or they don't, and don't care.

Its like trying to a cat to stop dumping in your garden, once hes got the habit.

TheMonster

Ricardo - You are a man after my own heart - was reading and thinking I wrote that.

The people here that reckon that kids should be allowed do whatever they want wherever they want will end up parenting the type of kids that turn up in work whenever they like(you know they type - Monday Morning phone call - can't come to work today as I'm "sick", turn up at 10.00 without an apology) - no respect for anything and is endemic of what society is turning into to.

Nevyn

Well what do you expect when all the smart sane respectible college educated people are for the most part not having children. Honestly I fear what type of a world my kids will live in with the off spring of those that seem to be breeding indescrimatly and throwing thier kids out on the street.

b3t4

RicardoSmith wrote:

Once you've actually created a garden, taken a few years of your own labour to do it. Will you let and a few mates run through it, trampling over everthing and run through the hedge a few times? I can guarantee you that you won't let me. The fact that you don't l think its of any value says it all.

I didn't say they weren't of value, I was trying to point out that the kids at the end of the day are more important. I was also trying to point out that the kids are more than likely unaware that their actions are causing so much distress.

And of course when they start hanging around the cars,

A question has to be asked as to why they are hanging around the cars and not somewhere else? Are there the facilities in place for these children to play and be children?

Thats just doesn't work.

All I know is that it worked in the situation we faced as children.

Either they have the manners to know its wrong. or they don't, and don't care.

Manners are something which one learns as they grow, they are not automatically built into a persons personaility. Manners are as much learnt from society as from a persons family. Manners are also generally dictated by society to an extent.

The current situation is not being alleviated by the OP's actions. I was trying to bring across a different way of looking at things. Perhaps trying to look at things from the perspective of a child rather than an adult. I believe that if something isn't working to alleviate a problem then maybe approaching the problem from a different angle can bring about a solution.

Also, the OP is not aware as to why the children will not play in the green and I thought that it might be an idea to find out the cause of this.


A.

RicardoSmith

Well done you've managed to shift the cause and solution of the problem from the children and their parents to the victim. Excellent. You've managed to propose a solution to the problem where the children and their parents are blamless and are not part of the solution.

You can avoid the obvious, but it doesn't go away. :cool:

cormie

iguana wrote:

Would I be right in thinking that you were smoking certain illegal substances at the time too?

Even in a perfect world (anarchist utopia type thing) people have to work. Exactly where do you think you will get your food, clothing, place to live, computer to type stoned bulls**t on?

No illegal substances I'm afraid, and when I mentioned grass, I meant the stuff that grows in gardens. This is far from a perfect world. Maybe it would be better if we reverted back to the way things were thousands of years ago. We'd kill to eat and dress, this would mean we only kill what we need, no mass slaughter for your leather sofas etc, live in the trees and we wouldn't need computers. That would be allot better than today.

There would be no obesity, no depression. I'd say even though they were without the "luxuries", people were a lot wealthier back when life was simple. People wouldn't worry about scratches on cars or all the little things in life. There are far more important things then the materialistic artefacts. And ask yourself this, when you say about children killing plants, what is it that upsets you? The plants losing their lives as you would be a relative losing theirs? Or is it just that your garden won’t have the aesthetic appeal like when a scratch appears on your car?

I think the main concern here should be the well being of the children. Voice your opinion at the next committee meeting; suggest the park to be sorted out. Maybe put money you would be spending on new plants or a new paint job, towards the association for better security for these children so they can play in the park. It's unfortunate it has to be this way; with the likes of the boy in Cork parents are petrified to let their children out of their sight, or the sight of their neighbours.

The children just want to play. They want to upset as little people as possible. They don't want some Monster coming out ruining their game. Solve that issue and your problem will be solved too.

RicardoSmith

This is not an issue about kids not being safe to play on green areas or outside. Most of these kids aren't even from this road. So the're not in sight of parents at all. Are their parents standing their playing with their kids, or taking them to the green areas and monitoring them? No. They've fobbed them off down the road. Where their neighbours have to watch them. Its not up to other people to watch someone kids because the parents can't be arsed to do it themselves.

This is about them playing in places where they shouldn't be, and where it causes distress to other people. Its that simple. You have rights, as do those kids. You can't selectively pick the rules that suit you and ignore the rest.

If it was a hundred years ago, someone would go out and hit them with a rock or a club. End of problem. The problem is not property. Its the lack of respect for rules, authority and a lack of responsibility.

But again your putting the responsibilty for these kids on other people. It should lie with the kids themselves and the parents. Thats where the problem is. Thats where the problem will be fixed. If they don't respect others property they are not going to respect any facilities either. Why would they?

TheMonster

Well said Ricardo.
There is a park at then end of the road - 14 houses away(thats how close) and actually the younger kids do play there. Its only the young teenagers who persist in destroying neighbours property. This isn't about having the facilities for kids to play on - its there. These are little brats who insist on making neighbours lives hell.

The last time it happened I was walking through the front door and onw was jsut jumping my wall. I asked where was she going and told her that if she entered my garden again I would call the police. She just stared at me blankly as if it was me at fault.

I can't believe the attitude of the poster(*Page*) who said it only a flowers and they will grow back. I hope that was a troll and not a serious post or are they the same type of the parents of these kids - no authority over kids will lead to the parents lifes been made hell in the future - if they have no respect for property now the next step is obviously no respect for Law and Order and will be doing drugs etc in a few years.

b3t4

RicardoSmith wrote:

Well done you've managed to shift the cause and solution of the problem from the children and their parents to the victim.

As the OP is not the children or the parents of the children who are causing the problems I therefore choose to discuss how the victim, the OP, could go about alleviating the problem.

Excellent. You've managed to propose a solution to the problem where the children and their parents are blamless and are not part of the solution.

My solution did involve the children. I said that the children were unaware of the problems that they were causing therefore the logical conclusion for that would be to make them aware of the problems they are causing. A quick phone call to the parents of the children would not go a miss either.

It is a nice ideal for everyone to have attended parenting courses before they have a child but this has not happened. The OP will have to deal with this situation as best as possible under the circumstances that are presented to them.

A.

Seraphina

threatening the kids with the guards is just going to make them hate you.
i cant believe you're complaining about this tbh, in some estates kids that age would be up all night vandalising property and causing alot more hassle, not just playing rounders and getting their ball back.

i suggest next time you see them in the garden, speak to them politely. being aggressive or threatening wont help in any way.
tell them you dont mind them getting the ball back, but you'd prefer if they were a little more careful and didn't climb your walls and trample your flowers.
i think you're making a fuss over nothing though. we used to do that all the time when we were kids, and those people who got angry with us or threatened us got it worse. they'll have no respect for you. they're just kids, and the concept of property isn't as obvious to them as it clearly is to some of the over materialistic people on this board. in their mind, they're just getting the ball back. they're not wrecking the place on purpose (and like i said, in alot of estates this WOULD be happening, so you're pretty lucky)
try not to get so bloody worried over your nice garden ffs. its just a garden at the end of the day.

iguana

*Page* wrote:

rounders match in this game you hit a ball and try catch it! running in and out of gardens trampling flower beds and hedges this is a pain but is not the same financial cost of fixing a car!!hide/chasing is another harmless game.. my god you are such an old misser!!!

If it bothers you that much go to the kids parents or put a fence on the front of your house!

1. Some plants can cost a fortune and can be just as expensive to replace than to fix damage to a car.

2. Some people really love their plants, my parents spend hours in their garden, with their flowers, fruit trees and veg. The garden is probably my mother's favourite thing in the world. Who are you to dismiss that?

3. At least plants make a definite useful contribution (oxygen) to the world. The poster wants them in HIS garden, the kids have no right to trample them.

4. The kids might be out playing on the street, which is of course preferable to them spending all day everyday at home on their x-boxes. But that does not excuse bad manners and destruction of other people's things. If they graffitied his front door would that be ok? It would be far easier to fix than to bring a dead plant back to life.

I used to play on the street as a kid, but if my ball went into someone's garden I went in the gate to get it. If it kept going into their garden we moved.

To the op you really should try reasoning with them. Yelling at them won't win you their respect. They were thoughtless but they are kids, try going out and explaining why you want them to stop what they are doing. Treat them as adults, kids like that and tend to respond well to it.

If they don't have you considered getting a scary dog?

RicardoSmith

I love the idea that playing on the Road is safer for the kids. :rolleyes: The only reason you have to justify this is that its "safer" for the kids. Whereas in fact thats not the reason they are doing it. Your making excuses for something that simple anti social behaviour.

If you can't grasp that tresspass, and destruction of other people property, some of which takes years to nuture and grow, and causing distress to others is fundamentally wrong aswell not to mention being illegal. You'll never understand it no matter how its explained.

Why should I be grateful that my neighbourhood isn't some getto? Thats some excuse. :rolleyes:

RicardoSmith

Obviously my area is a getto. Just found out a a friend was hit in the head with a ball from local kids/youths hanging around at the shops and has a fractured skull, and bad concussion. Knocked out for some time.

The irony. :mad:

Tonto2

Probably not the best behavior but kids will play anywhere they want, if you make a big deal of it theyll just hassle you more. leave them alone, the good weather doesnt last long and theyll be drinking and smoking in the park this time next year