The College View

Stargal

Just wondering, is the College View the only paper in DCU? I work there on Saturday mornings and it's the only one I've ever seen there... thought it was a bit odd that a college with a great degree and postgrad in Journalism would have a paper that was pretty subpar. What's the scéal? Who funds it? Do Journalism students write for it?

Amz

It's the only independent college paper in DCU.

An Tarbh is the weekly magazine produced by the Student's Union.

There was another magazine which was due to become a regular feature around the college, but as far as I know there was a problem with getting dedicated writers etc.

Zyox

College View is great for the awl political scandal.

Like the article about Claire Kehoe and the stalion incident in the sports hall. Lollered my bottom off.

dregin

Omfg!!!! 5500 Posts!!1111

Yt(ou Wqiwninner!¬111

OFDM

Have never come across this college view paper - where does it normally appear and on what day?

Amz

dregin wrote:

Omfg!!!! 5500 Posts!!1111

Yt(ou Wqiwninner!¬111

Er ...

Zyox

Amz wrote:

Er ...

He may have been slightly intoxicated. Blame Black Beauty tbh.

(Stay on topic Amz fs :P)

Amz

Amz

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Topic

OFDM

Amz wrote:

Amz

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Topic

Can I change my username to "Topic"??


Bah dum cheee

cormie

Just saw this thread on the front page. My girlfriend got the new news editor position. In fact, the whole team have been replaced with new hopefuls so it may improve, or may not.

Dublin's Finest

The College View is written by student journalists, many of whom are first years and are writing an article for the first time so you can't really be too harsh. It's a problem though if there aren't many students getting to see it.

It'll be out early next week by the way.

thefuturehead

I may out myself as a college view insider here, but:

- there is an effort made to get the paper to each school. the problem is they just get dumped in the bin. but i can guarantee they do get to each school.

Dublin's Finest

So is the general opinion of people here that CV is ****?

I'd be interested to see what you all think of the 'news.'

Amz

I've never seen it in Sport and Health?

In comparison to other college papers it's not particularly inclusive.

Certain sports have preference over others and the articles are quite biased towards certain schools/faculties.

*shrug*

Dublin's Finest

That's true. Sport and GAA get the most attention. It tends to be the clubs that make themselves known to the paper get covered. I suppose it's difficult with timing too because the paper only comes out once a month.

Do you read the itoften? Arts has been good this year though.

thefuturehead

aw shucks. i'm saying nothing.

a paper shouldn't be inclusive necessarily. just needs to cover the news, and if people are interested they'll include themselves. for example, i don't live in the middle east, but if i see an interesting piece in the indo/times, i'll 'include' myself in it. if you see what i mean. the news is there for people to include themselves in.

but it is fair comment that perhaps more of the smaller stories could cover a wider range of the university. part of the whole apathy thing affecting dcu i guess.

Amz

It's a college paper though, therefore should include stories that will concern all students in the college.

I'm sure there's a paper in your local area that concerns local events this is different, a national paper covering stories about the Middle East is also a different thing entirely.

thefuturehead

sorry,didn't think i made that point very well. what i was essentially trying to say is that it attempts to cover college news, whether people actually give a **** or not is a different story.

Amz

People won't start giving a crap until they see that there's something to give a crap about.

As a science student there's very, very little in the College View that concerns my time in college. I'd be disinclined to read it on a regular basis.

The fact that most of those working on it are arts/humanities students would suggest that there would be an editorial bias towards those schools (and perhaps business also). It would make it very daunting for someone in Science/Engineering etc. to contribute articles relevant to the students there.

Dublin's Finest

That's been a massive problem with the paper over the years. It's been very difficult to get people from other facuties to contribute.

But then someone mentioned earlier that the paper is "below par"....how can you maintain a standard if the peoplke that are contributing aren't familiar with the techniques of journalism??

Amz

Someone said earlier that the articles were written by journalism students, now maybe I'm wrong, but I presume all of these people aren't in first year?

It is a below par newspaper, in other colleges where there is no dedicated journalism course they have some fantastic publications which the students actaully look forward to reading!

College View won't be one of those if it continues in the same way.

Dublin's Finest

Other colleges have 'better' papers because they get loads of money. The CV has to battle every year for its funding - for example...the paper is designed in the middle of the clubs and socs area, it doesn't even have its own private space. It has no scanner for photographs either.


What would you change about it if you had the chance?

Amz

No Club or Society has it's own space!

All Clubs and Societies use the facilities in Clubs and Socs and if they need to go elsewhere for somethin, they go elsewhere!

Other colleges get funding for their papers, because they're good papers! If UCD consistently put out a rubbish paper their funding would be cut pretty sharpish! It's in the colleges own interest to provide funding in those cases. The College View hasn't shown that it merits lots of funding!

Other Clubs ans Societies function with incredibly little funding. The Women't rugby club for example have training on a tiny little corner on the GAA pitch, we can't even use the rugby pitch! Yet, we work with what we have, unless we can show that we'll work with that and we are imporving we can't expect to get extra support in future! (Not a direct comparison, but when you're complaining about lack of funding etc. there are other people in equally uncomfortable positions).

Dublin's Finest

One question: how do you think a paper is laid out?

Do you think the content just magically appears on the page!!?? The software costs thousands and it's only on one computer in the clubs and socs area. Also, it cost money...alot of money to send the paper off to be printed.

You say the College View hasn't shown its merits so it shouldn't get more funding...imagine if you applied this logic to the swimming club.

"Sorry that new member can't swim too well, you obviously haven't shown your merits...we're decreasing your funding."

Give it a chance. It's an amateur paper and the only independent one we have.

Amz

People have given the College View a chance, I'm not the only person who doesn't look forward to it coming out. I doubt many people would miss it if it was gone. Now that's not a snipe at you directly it hasn't developed to a standard welcomed by the students since it first arrived in DCU.

I'm perfectly aware that the software costs money and that articles don't just magically appear, don't take me for a fool.

Women's Rugby started just a little over a year and a half ago. We already have 3 Leinster players who only started rugby in that time, we got little or no money in our first year of operation, yet we were able to train twice a week and produce some fantastic players. These people had never played rugby before.

Yet in the College Views case the majority of those involved are studying journalism for their degree! These people are getting experience in college and have their lecturers etc. available to them to draw from their experience. There are very few excuses you can make in this case.

Dublin's Finest

I take your point - don't get me wrong, I have written for the paper alot (I hope my articles weren't the **** ones you're criticising!) but I think some of the content is terrible. Still though, I think it's worthwhile to have a paper solely produced by the students.

you made a very good point there about the women's rugby...the players that came in had never played before and now they are doing well. But can you not see that the same thing happens with the paper?

The only problem is that the younger writers are learning in full view of those who read it. They have to practice journalism somewhere and the college view gives that opportunity to them. The peopl involved in the paper are realistic about it - we're not the Irish Times but we try our best.

Amz

Dublin's Finest wrote:

I take your point - don't get me wrong, I have written for the paper alot (I hope my articles weren't the **** ones you're criticising!) but I think some of the content is terrible. Still though, I think it's worthwhile to have a paper solely produced by the students.

I never said any of the articles are crap! I said that as a whole the College View isn't comparable to the papers in other Universities/Colleges. Considering DCU has a dedicated journalism course this is surprising!

you made a very good point there about the women's rugby...the players that came in had never played before and now they are doing well. But can you not see that the same thing happens with the paper?

Not really ... Can you give me some examples of where people with no journalism experience, not studying journalism in college etc. have joined College View and then gone on to bigger and better things while still in DCU?

The only problem is that the younger writers are learning in full view of those who read it. They have to practice journalism somewhere and the college view gives that opportunity to them.

I accept this and fair dues to them for putting themselves out there like that.

I'm pretty sure though that if these first years were encouraged properly the standard could well be raised and some of the mediocre material that has been seen in the past would be done away with.

Is it not the job of the editor to ensure that a certain standard is met by the contributors?

The peopl involved in the paper are realistic about it - we're not the Irish Times but we try our best.

Nobody expects the College View to be the Irish Times, but when it doesn't even meet a particular standard every time it comes out then people aren't going to continue to read it. The Irish Times et al have a fairly consistent standard which they have to meet in order to maintain their readership, why should the College View be any different?

Dublin's Finest

Most first years coming in to the college view in first year have had no journalism exp. beforehand. I include myself on that one. I learnt by making the odd mistake on the paper.

You're right about the editors though...I think they have been too lenient on some off the contibutors - that's just me.

It's hard too to maintain a standard when the editorial team changes every six issues - that's in the Pub soc constitution (I'd burn if if I could.)

Amz

Dublin's Finest wrote:

Most first years coming in to the college view in first year have had no journalism exp. beforehand. I include myself on that one. I learnt by making the odd mistake on the paper.

I accept that as you're learning you're going to make mistakes. However the same mistakes are constantly occuring thus keeping the paper at the same level throughout the year.

You're right about the editors though...I think they have been too lenient on some off the contibutors - that's just me.

Well maybe it's time someone told them to cop on and get the finger out?

There's no point whinging about lack of funding, or support if you're not going to make an effort to produce the best publication you can with the resources available to you. From what I've seen that's not what is happening!

It's hard too to maintain a standard when the editorial team changes every six issues - that's in the Pub soc constitution (I'd burn if if I could.)

Surely there is someone on hand who can ensure that a standard is maintained, even in an unoffical capacity.

A change of editorial team should be no excuse for not reaching high standards, particularly if that editorial team consists mainly of journalism students. It doesn't take an experience journalist to know what a high standard of reporting is. Not all of this team would be first years either I would imagine so therefore it isn't unrealistic to expect a certain level of journalism from the College View.

Dublin's Finest

How often do you read it? Do you read all the articles or have you just been put off by a few bad ones?

I'm not taking the mick or anything but have you EVER thought an article in it was well written?


There's a letters page by the way...

Amz

I get every issue.

Obviously there are some decent articles (Can't remember any off hand, which doesn't bode well for the writers I'm afraid) but as I said the overall standard isn't comparable to some other colleges and unviersities, even ones that don't have a dedicated journalism course, which is quite laughable actually.

You'd expect more to be honest ...

Dublin's Finest

ah well. Why then do you get every issue if you find it "laughable"?

Amz

See you're misquoting me now. That's not a very good habit for a "journalist" to get into.

Dublin's Finest

Didn't answer my question though...

Amz

Because your question was based on a misquote.

Dublin's Finest

Alright then - why do you read every issue if "the overall standard isn't comparable to some other colleges and unviersities, even ones that don't have a dedicated journalism course, which is quite laughable"??

Amz

Is this a problem for you?

I read every issue in the hope that maybe someday I'll be pleasantly surprised by it.

It is the only DCU paper available to me. I also like to keep somewhat informed on the other sports teams progress etc.

Dublin's Finest

No it's not. I was just curious. Well least it serves the purpose of keeping you up to date on that anyway.

This is a ridiculous conversation anyway! How long have I been talking about this for!? I'm just happy that we have a paper. It's not perfect but hey. Let's forget about it.

Ahoy 0-0 France Switzerland!!!

Amz

Dublin's Finest wrote:

No it's not. I was just curious. Well least it serves the purpose of keeping you up to date on that anyway.

It does to an extent yes, but even still there could quite easily be more!

This is a ridiculous conversation anyway! How long have I been talking about this for!? I'm just happy that we have a paper. It's not perfect but hey. Let's forget about it.

That's exactly the kind of attitude that the paper doesn't need!

Why would anyone want to be associated with it if those involved have a "lets bury our heads in the sand attitude"!

Dublin's Finest

Of course it could be more..I'm not debating that fact, there is room for much improvement and hopefully the new editorial team can do their bit.

As far as I am involved I submit the odd article and then it's up to the editorial team do the rest...that's the structure of it. I don't have a bury the sand attitude...If I had gone for editor I would have tried to ring some changes but it's easier said than done.

There's no point labouring this one...

segadreamcast

*Sigh* Hoping the above (Dublin's Finest) doesn't do journalism...

Some good points raised by you though Amz, some which should really be taken into consideration by the editor(s) of this 'news'paper.

Perhaps you'd consider writing them a letter Amz?

Amz

Thanks NoelRock, I would consider writing a letter yes, but I doubt it would make a huge difference.

Dublin's Finest

There'll only be one issue under the new team beforenext year so you'd probably be waiting a while...

segadreamcast

Sad but true... :-\. That paper definitely needs a shake-up. I hear the DIT journalism faculty newspaper is quite a bit better too - makes you think...

Dublin's Finest

Apparently the UCD one is good. I've never seen it.

Amz

Again with the snide remarks and ostrich attitude.

Dublin's Finest

I wasn't being snide. I was just saying that I've been told that it's good.

Amz

Well given the context it's quite easy to see how it would be construed as snide.

Dublin's Finest

Meh.

katnip

Just out of interest, what aspects of the paper do people here find to be sub-standard, for want of a better word? Is it the content, the design, or something else?

Stargal

Well I started this thread (and then didn't see it for ages) because I thought it was odd that the paper wasn't very well written, edited or laid out. That sounds a bit too harsh so I'll try to explain:

Firstly a lot of the stories are actually badly written -there's a lack of structure and they don't fully explain or expand on the story they're setting out to report on. The front page story about the swimming pool in the issue last month was a prime example - it was a good story but was made difficult to read by clumsy writing.

The editing needs to be stricter - it should prioritise reporting and breaking news stories around campus instead of formulaic features that are often irrelevant by the time they're printed (a two page spread on the tsunami on pages 2-3 a month and a half after it happened was an example of that).

I'll take what DF was saying about only having one computer to lay it out on which must be tough coming up to deadline time. However that's not really an excuse for the layout - the fonts need to be changed as does the banner headline, more pictures (digital camera means no need for scanner! And Google is great for pics!), a break away from the half page cut on most pages - this is all simple stuff that would make a big difference.

And I've written for the two papers in my college and money was a serious issue in both of them - in the bigger picture maybe the paper should look for its funding from another area of college, but otherwise you just need to constantly be on the lookout for sponsorship to keep it going.

Hope this doesn't come across as a tirade or something, just trying to be honest about what I think is wrong with the paper at the moment. Have a look at some other college papers, cos they're all operating on different budgets, some with loads of writers and some with just a couple, and you get a great idea of the variety of standard of talent and ability