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18-03-2005 4:27pm#1
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Pokerevents wrote:
Approx 25/30% re-buy and another 20/25% top-up.
I played in two nights at the Westwood and I have to say from what i saw there where more topups than the 20/25% you have stated. Everyone on my table on both nights topped up at the break! I would believe the rebuy figure a little more but only just.
I also have concerns about the prize money being given out not just for me but for the majority of the guys who are palying but dont actually realise where there money is going.
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murfie wrote:I played in two nights at the Westwood and I have to say from what i saw there where more topups than the 20/25% you have stated. Everyone on my table on both nights topped up at the break! I would believe the rebuy figure a little more but only just.
I also have concerns about the prize money being given out not just for me but for the majority of the guys who are palying but dont actually realise where there money is going.
Are the number of rebuys displayed on screen for everyone to view? If not was the number of rebuys/top-ups announced at the end of the break?0 -
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Context is important but between this statement and the other thread you’ve made a number of posts similar either in tone or intent. That is refusing to engage with a point, or attempting to undermine the point made or person who made it. I’m sorry for taking these out of context and from another thread but I’d prefer not to split this response across both of them.Pokerevents wrote:DapperGent
I'm in no position to dictate to anyone, and what your quoting me on needs to be taken into context.
You did actually go on to answer the questions, which was good but there is nothing from his post to indicate an ulterior motive to his questions. Insinuating such is a cheap attempt to undermine his position in the minds of the people reading. I find that dishonest. I don’t mind you calling him a moron (though he isn’t one), I’ve said far worse on boards.Answering moranic question to people whose interests are dubious is a waste of my time.
I found this one really annoying. This is an attempt to give yourself a bye from critcism of your tournaments simply becuase you ran them in the first place. You’re also attempting to claim altruistic intentions with regard to running them when it’s a business venture. I don’t mind anyone trying to make money out of the non-playing side of poker I do mind people misrepresenting such attempts as altrusim. I find that dishonest.What I mean by "real" is the people who interested in the long term growth of the sport and support efforts made by promoters who are trying to bring poker to the wider audiences.
If people are not interested in this that is understandable, I'm sure they will find other passions in life. In the meantime, those making the effort and actually doing it , should be supported.
Same thing again.The only people getting away with anything is people like yourself you are doing nothing to promote the game, but yet like to think themselves as some authority on tournament poker in Ireland.
I know between these two threads it must seem like nearly every poster in the place is gunning for you and it would be easy to become convinced that there is some kind of agenda or dubious motivation. There isn’t. It should simply convince you that people who know anything about poker just fúcking hate capped prize pools. And with good reason.I've read your comments more than once, and I suggest you take off them sunglasses your hiding behind, and look at the overall picture. You are completely full of your own woofully negative, dubiously motivated opinions.
You should stay away from the sats like you've said ,and the super-sats and all other live events, you are a true bluffer, to the point of being fake.
I’m going to respond to Waylander’s post as a means to illustrate my feelings on them.
I don’t mind him making a profit at all. I’m glad he does and will. It’s his methods of profit making that I have a problem with.Waylander wrote:I think you are being a bit unfair on Pokerevents here. I also do not like a capped prizefund, but in fairness, Poker Events is being run as a business and hence does expect to make a profit every now and again. As long as it is within certain paremeters players may be willing to enter in their tournaments, if you are not that is your choice, as is telling people why you are not entering but I think that you have made your point. (I am sure Fintan has a love of the game, but that will not put dinner on the table.)
Yep poker clubs run their tournaments as loss leaders to bring in people for cash gaming and gambling, without those revenue streams Poker Events has to charge a higher registration fee. Nobody (I think) is disputing this. They just want the juice that they’re paying to be clearly visible. And to be clearly visible before the event starts.Waylander wrote:Expecting him to be able to compete with the card clubs is about as unrealistic as expecting the card clubs to compete with the Internet sites reg fees. The clubs have their profits taken from a variety of games, as well as reg fees, and rakes from cash games. I do not think it a realistic expectation for people to expect Pokerevents to make their profits from charging the same reg as a card club into the only tournie he can run that night. Also, the clubs have fiarly fixed costs, where as pokerevents would fluctuate with venue and region.
I applaud him for bringing good sized and well dealt (by all accounts) tournaments to parts of the country that don’t get the chance very often. If I lived in Galway I’d probably play them despite the fact that I don’t like the way the juice and payouts work, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.Waylander wrote:I think he is bringing poker to parts of the country that would not see a tournie from one end of the year to the next, and only seems to be getting grief for it.
Why I hate capped prize pools (not directed at anybody):
1. You don’t know what rake you’re paying. The registration fee only forms one part of the rake I’ll be paying. After that the rake will change depending on the number of entrants i.e. the proportion of money I’m handing over to pay for costs/profit for the organiser (as opposed to prize pool) is both beyond my knowledge (at the start of the event) and beyond my control (at any time). I have no idea whether I’m getting value for money. All I know is that my value for money gets worse the more people who turn up. It doesn’t matter if Poker Events really are running the smaller tournaments at a loss to generate revenue for bigger tournaments, they clearly believe they will turn a profit on the whole deal together (fair play to them) and the amount of money I give over is part of that whole shebang.
As a customer I deserve to know what the juice is and I deserve to know before the event starts. I don’t care if a reg fee of 50+15 or 50+20 would give the same one-night loss to Poker Events at least I would know where I stood and I wouldn’t be in a situation where every person who played in the event cut my equity in the prize pool.
2. The money gained by a win is unreflective of the difficulty in attaining it. If we have a situation where the prize pool is the same for the week 150 people turn up as for the week 100 people turn up then we have a situation where someone won the 150 runner tournament gets paid exactly the same amount as the person who won the 100 runner event. This is for a win that is 50% more difficult to achieve. How is this fair?
Finally the way I see Poker Event’s use of capped prize pools is this: they are accruing the advertising benefits of a low reg fee and a guaranteed prize pool while exposing themselves to the risks of neither (over the course of a few events).
It is a method of using a low advertised reg of 10% (one of the only things that people see) along with a guaranteed prize pool (the only other thing that people see) as a means of advertising the events. With the capping of the prize pool the effective rake is much higher than 10% and disguised. With the capping of the prize pool the risk of having to pay out more than taken in (never likely at the best of times) is ameliorated by being able to use a good turnout at one event to cover a poor turnout at another, the losers being the saps who had a far smaller chance at the same prize pool for the same money.
Capped prize pools are good for promoters and bad for players. None of you should play in them, I won’t be.0 -
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Almost 50 posts on this subject, that can be summed up in four points;
~ Fair Play for organising these tournies, it's great to see someone promoting Poker on a wider scale in Ireland, hope you do well and get the support out of it.
~ Be upfront about what your charging for the tournament, if it's a 50+50 reg say so, that way we all know what we're getting into and you don't have to worry about dissatisfied punters boycotting your event. Remember the two golden rules of marketing
"You'll tell 3 people you know about a good experience you have, and 10 people about a bad experience you've had"
"If you highlight a problem area with a good or service and upon using that good or service again you find that the problem has not been rectified, you won't put anymore business their way and you'll advise your friends to do the same"
You're only going to make money for as long as people come and play in these tournaments, create enough bad press and you won't get any players. It's better to make 10% on 200 people than 50% on 10.
~ Get rid of the capped prize pools, if I beat 150 people then I expect to win more money than if I beat 90, simple mathematics. (probably a redundant point in my case but still
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~ You have an opportunity to be very successful and make a lot of money. Your organisation and professionalism when dealing with these events is to be applauded, but if you continue to take advantage of your customers you'll find that someone else will step in offering the same service at better value, then you're in trouble. You'll only maintain a competitive advantage for as long as you're offering the best value possible while making a profit for yourself, at present I don't think you're doing that.
Ok who's first in line to stone the marketing consultant
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