35 Nigerians deported on flight to Lagos

Cool Cat

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0315/deport.html

Gardaí have confirmed that 35 Nigerians were last night deported on a flight back to Lagos.

The charter flight left Dublin Airport just before midnight.

The deportees, who included men, women and children, were accompanied by members of the Garda National Immigration Bureau. A number of those due to be deported secured judicial reviews at the last minute and so did not travel.



The development follows a series of arrests of non-nationals across the country in recent days, who had failed in their applications for asylum.

This is the first such mass deportation this year. Deportations have become a routine part of the Department of Justice and the gardaí's immigration and asylum control policy.

L5

Cool Cat wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0315/deport.html

wonder how many tens of thousands of taxpayers money that cost :rolleyes:

gandalf

Cool Cat banned for a week for posting an article without his own opinion. He was already on a warning for a previous thread. Will leave this open for 24 hours and see if it develops into a discussion. If not it will be closed.

billy the squid

why do they carry out these deportations in the middle of the night? is there a problem with getting a flight slot during the day or is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

MadsL

or is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

Wouldn't suprise me.

wonder how many tens of thousands of taxpayers money that cost

A lot more than the 'cost' to the economy from giving them work permits probably...

seamus

billy the squid wrote:

why do they carry out these deportations in the middle of the night?

Element of surprise I guess. Same reason why raids are carried out at dawn.

billy the squid

I can understand raiding houses for them either late at night or early in the morning, but why wait till so late to fly them out. I am assuming that they would be in custody for several hours before they are spirited out of the country in the dead of night.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Sponge Bob

billy the squid wrote:

is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

Mainly. I'd love a lawyer who could get me sorted that quick

mycroft

Sponge Bob wrote:

Mainly. I'd love a lawyer who could get me sorted that quick

Any half decent law firm has a contact number you can use day or night.

I live just around the corner from the Nigeria embassy in Dublin I noticed alot of activity outside the embassy, (a crowd of about two dozen, security, notice put on the door) just yesterday(monday).

I cant help but ask, why Nigerians, they seem like a group of African scapegoats, aside from the proliferations of 481 scams, why are nigerians consistently singled out alongside Romanians as the group most likely to "abuse' our asylum laws.

elivsvonchiaing

billy the squid wrote:

why do they carry out these deportations in the middle of the night? is there a problem with getting a flight slot during the day or is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

Would think this is to accomodate Gardaí/expenses - etc. Check in is at 12 noon in most hotels worldwide - this fits! Not that I begrudge em a couple of days in the sun or anything - but suspect its geared toward them and paperwork - african politics - you don't wan't to be landing in Lagos when every official is asleep - best morning - before noon!

elivsvonchiaing

mycroft wrote:

I cant help but ask, why Nigerians, they seem like a group of African scapegoats, aside from the proliferations of 481 scams, why are nigerians consistently singled out alongside Romanians as the group most likely to "abuse' our asylum laws.

Think it's thoughts of Biafra as well tbh...

It's history. Romania... dunno the history.

Know Nigerians who've been here years and look on new-comers as scum - (Christian - well educated- self debate on how christian they are though... but in some cases definitely right - in thinking!)

I've been abroad and seen Scum - Irish Scum and just been too scared to phone polis (correct spelling for where I was) I can see where he (his missus)come from, apart from being rich nigerians.

I get too many dodgy emails that i've traced back to Lagos to doubt them much! tbh!

Romania - nothing - romanian's are racist though -generally - hate the Roma folk in my experience... but I can't say I know any that well.

Don't know the full stats of prisoners here among africans - think Nigerian's is high - but don't expec Togo/Benin to compete in this game.

Think really most folk know someone who was involved in this (Biafra)- and don't like history of it...

Whatever the truth of it I can identify with Nigerians - they have a bad rap - I worked in London 20 years ago, we (Irish) did get **** then from most folk!

At 17 I didn't have a thick skin either!

So what's the concern with Nigerians at state level?

My theory: Do think that we were never an occupier - and were part of British empire... so there's a commonality - think Lunar house (Croydon ) isn't doing enough that's why they (the completely unskilled except in card skimming etc) want to come here...

Can see how people would disagree... But please no ... "you are racist bullsh!t!" I ain't - logical argument only please!

foxybrowne

I'd say deportations are carried out at night to prevent protests.
There's one at 1230 tomorrow at the immigration centre on the quays if anyones around.

Imposter

foxybrowne wrote:

I'd say deportations are carried out at night to prevent protests.
There's one at 1230 tomorrow at the immigration centre on the quays if anyones around.

Why are people protesting? They failed in their quest for asylum and they are being deported! Or do you know something that the media doesn't?

The Muppet

mycroft wrote:

I live just around the corner from the Nigeria embassy in Dublin I noticed alot of activity outside the embassy, (a crowd of about two dozen, security, notice put on the door) just yesterday(monday).

That could be due to the Passport issue , The Nigerian Embasy are charging €400 for a passpot that their people need in their assylum application. needless to say their citizens are none to happy about that. In the Uk the passport cost £95.

These assylum seekers had due process ,I don't see the problem either.

Hobbes

L5 wrote:

wonder how many tens of thousands of taxpayers money that cost :rolleyes:

From what I gather (may not be the same for all countries) but the home country of the people is billed and it is generally up to the home country to get the funds back from the people deported. This is based on two incidents I know of where people I know were deported from Brazil and USA (both Irish). Although as I said this may not be the case in all instances.

Nuttzz

The raids are carried out at night to surprise the people they wish to round up.

They are flown out of the country at "odd" times as the flight slots are cheaper than a commerical slot at 11 in the morning for example.

It is not a nice thing to happen however these people have been through the system and they havent proved their case, its not a case of deporting them before their claims were heard.

thejollyrodger

Personally I'm happy that people who are here illegally are being deported whatever the cost. Getting a soft image is the last thing the country needs. Plus it means that the people who are claiming aslum here or working legally are having a quality of life.

ionapaul

Forgive my ignorance on this issue: why would the deportees need advice from their lawyers between the time of arrest (or whatever it is) and flight out of the country? If their application has been fully processed by this stage, what can a lawyer do?

Lemming

billy the squid wrote:

why do they carry out these deportations in the middle of the night? is there a problem with getting a flight slot during the day or is it to prevent anyone getting in contact with their lawyers or what?

It's to prevent failed applicants going into hiding, as what happened frequently (I don't have the statistics to hand but I know I have seen them. Need to go find them again though) before the state decided to use the dawn raid method. It's not pretty, but it cuts out a lot of the "going into hiding" routine, which then means the gardai have to spend man-power to track them down, etc.

Raskolnikov

MadsL wrote:

A lot more than the 'cost' to the economy from giving them work permits probably...

Give a work permit to every failed asylum applicant? :eek:

seamus

ionapaul wrote:

Forgive my ignorance on this issue: why would the deportees need advice from their lawyers between the time of arrest (or whatever it is) and flight out of the country? If their application has been fully processed by this stage, what can a lawyer do?

Presumably lawyers can use all sorts of legal loopholes and tricks to delay the deportation process, leaving us to foot the bill when a second plane needs to be chartered.
The Irish Refugee council do good work, but these guys know all of the tricks. But they do have a 24 hour number, so I don't think the late-night raids are to stop them getting involved.

TomF

My wife was steamed-up about this last night, and not happy that one of the deportees was a boy about to sit his leaving certificate exam.

I've only had one or two experiences with Nigerians: one was actually second-hand. A friend of my older son was driving his motorcycle in Cork when a car shot out of a side street, ignoring a stop sign, and hit the motorcycle broadside, sending the rider head over heels (he was wearing body armour, luckily) across the street surface until he hit a parked car. Meanwhile, the driver, a Nigerian, leaped out of his car and ran for it. He was eventually caught and this was his second such offence and he was driving his brother-in-law's car for this incident. I can only hope he is one of the deportees.

My other experience was first-hand. I was next in line at a Lidl's in Galway and there was a young woman behind me with a cartful of groceries. Two Nigerian men came up and stood behind me. I looked at them and told them the young woman was next after me, and they should go to the rear of the line. One of them said, "No problem, man." I repeated what I said, and he repeated what he said, and I then thought he meant that he was not going to budge the line. As my turn was next, I moved along and heard the woman and the man speaking and thought she said he could go-ahead. My younger daughter, who was with me in the line, told me in the car that the woman was actually saying "If you had asked me, I would have told you to go ahead, but you didn't even ask." The two men did cut in front of her after all, and I hope they are both sunning themselves now someplace in Nigeria.

seamus

TomF wrote:

I've only had one or two experiences with Nigerians: ....

Not to downplay your experiences......but how do you know they were Nigerian?

the_syco

Its only suprising when every African person I've talked to has said that Nigerians are dodgy.

Drapper

the_syco wrote:

Its only suprising when every African person I've talked to has said that Nigerians are dodgy.

thats a bit strong m8 !! put yourself in thier shoes.............. the celtic tiget bit you bad ............ there is plenty of room in ireland for migrants and loads of jobs......... lets share it out............

GuanYin

seamus wrote:

Not to downplay your experiences......but how do you know they were Nigerian?

Now, Seamus, everyone knows that all black people on Ireland are Nigerian and all asian people are Chinese.

They are the two places where all non-white people come from.

Anecdotal evidence means nothing TomF. I'd agree with your wifes concerns over the LC student being deported, that is ridiculous and whatever genius in the immigration office who put that paperwork though should be fired on the spot.


Can anyone show me any figures to say that the number of arrests of Nigerians in Ireland, in proportion to the Nigerian population in Ireland, is higher than the arrest figures for any other nation per population?

sovtek

TomF wrote:

The two men did cut in front of her after all, and I hope they are both sunning themselves now someplace in Nigeria.

I know from living in Africa that it isn't in their culture to queue.
I also know from my German in laws that it isn't in their's either.

Imposter

Drapper wrote:

thats a bit strong m8 !! put yourself in thier shoes.............. the celtic tiget bit you bad ............ there is plenty of room in ireland for migrants and loads of jobs......... lets share it out............

Surely that shoulsd have read "there is plenty of room in ireland for legal migrants"

Drapper

Imposter wrote:

Surely that shoulsd have read "there is plenty of room in ireland for legal migrants"

Not all Nigerians are bad ............. and word "legal" in the irish legal system is a joke ! Why target one race? nation?

MrPudding

Myself and my girlfriend had a personal experience with a Nigerian man. When she was pregnant with our first child we went for one of her pre-natal appointments. The docter was a huge Nigerian guy called Dr Obi (yes, like in Star Wars.) He was very good and my GF requested him for all her appointments from that point on.

What does this prove? Absolutly nothing, a bit like TomF's post.

MrP

Drapper

TomF wrote:

My other experience was first-hand. I was next in line at a Lidl's in Galway and there was a young woman behind me with a cartful of groceries. Two Nigerian men came up and stood behind me. I looked at them and told them the young woman was next after me, and they should go to the rear of the line. One of them said, "No problem, man." I repeated what I said, and he repeated what he said, and I then thought he meant that he was not going to budge the line. As my turn was next, I moved along and heard the woman and the man speaking and thought she said he could go-ahead. My younger daughter, who was with me in the line, told me in the car that the woman was actually saying "If you had asked me, I would have told you to go ahead, but you didn't even ask." The two men did cut in front of her after all, and I hope they are both sunning themselves now someplace in Nigeria.

How did you know they were Nigerian?

Drapper

MrPudding wrote:

Myself and my girlfriend had a personal experience with a Nigerian man. When she was pregnant with our first child we went for one of her pre-natal appointments. The docter was a huge Nigerian guy called Dr Obi (yes, like in Star Wars.) He was very good and my GF requested him for all her appointments from that point on.

What does this prove? Absolutly nothing, a bit like TomF's post.

MrP

Well said........... my partner is Korean and she gets the Chinese chants all the time..... eventhough the Korean h8 the Chinese more than the Irish do !!! hehehehhe

Alannis Morisette:- Isn't it ironic.............. don't you think?

GuanYin

Drapper wrote:

Well said........... my partner is Korean and she gets the Chinese chants all the time..... eventhough the Korean h8 the Chinese more than the Irish do !!! hehehehhe

Alannis Morisette:- Isn't it ironic.............. don't you think?

My gf was asked if she spoke "asian" once.

As to my point earlier. If you were to base world geographical borders on the Irish mentality the world would consist of America, Ireland, Europe (because, ya know, Ireland doesn't seem to be in Europe :rolleyes:) Nigeria, China and Australia.

Imposter

Drapper wrote:

Not all Nigerians are bad ............. and word "legal" in the irish legal system is a joke ! Why target one race? nation?

I never mentioned Nigerians. What I meant is that failed asylum seekers should be deported. There is oppurtunities and possibilities for legal migrants to work, but the minute these people's asylum applications were refused they are illegal immigrants and are not entitled to work or live in Ireland.

Drapper

psi wrote:

My gf was asked if she spoke "asian" once.

As to my point earlier. If you were to base world geographical borders on the Irish mentality the world would consist of America, Ireland, Europe (because, ya know, Ireland doesn't seem to be in Europe :rolleyes:) Nigeria, China and Australia.

My G/f was asked where she was from .............. answered Korea........ and one Irish person said Ohhh I love Curry (an indian dish)!! and all that Chinese food ......... I'd love to go to Thialand and see it ........... the people are lovely.......hehheheh

neuro-praxis

I know that not everyone who applies for asylum should receive it, but there is far more going on behind the scenes here than we realise.

There are actually dozens of "unaccompanied minors" here, living without families, in hostels, going to school etc. I actually personally know the young man who was about to sit his Leaving Certificate (from gospel choir). He had nothing to go home to - no parents, no home, nothing.

On the other hand, I believe he may have lied to the the authorities and said he was from the Congo - thinking that this would increase his chances and not realising that the staff in the asylum offices speak Congalese and various other African languages and are well aware of such lies.

These children are giving their passports to people-traffickers as payment for getting shipped here, and are being advised by I'm not sure who to lie about their homeland.

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

Imposter

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

I agree with this. Are you saying that the asylum process doesn't deal with such things and deports them too soon or without getting all the facts? What if the child won't tell the truth for whatever reason?

uberwolf

IMO the process currently takes far too long. People shouldn't be allowed integrate into society if they may be taken away from it again.
However I've no qualms about people having been determined to be in the country under illegal pretences to be removed from it. And teh conspiracy theorists really ought to consider the scale of the inevitable publicity which occurs around these incidents. - surely there's nothing to be gained in this respect by flying them out early or late.

GuanYin

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him. There needs to be a full examination of the facts where these asylum seekers are concerned and I feel it's better to be compassionate than dismissive as a general rule.

I agree 100%

That the first sign of the apololypse, right?

I'd still like to see the person who signed the deportation order for that kid, named and shamed. And fired.

bonkey

TomF wrote:

<two anecdotes about Nigerians>

Thats amazing...I know someone who was run down as well, only in this case they never caught the driver. My run-down mate did give the police a description of the white guy who was driving, as well as smoe details about the case, so I'm amazed they never found out who did it. Can't be that many Nigerians in Ireland.

I've also had Irish people cut in front of me in a queue. I wonder should we lock them up? After all, if its good for you that queue-jumping Nigerians are deported, surely we should deal with our own queue-jumpers as harshly. Or maybe they were white Nigerians faking an Irish accent. Or maybe Nigerians jump queues in a particularly harsh way?

All such logic is, incidentally, ridiculously flawed. It assumes that you notice all the people around you all of the time, and are aware of how many of what nationality cause problems, and how many simlpy get on with their lives quietly and leave you entirely alone.

Also, unless you'd like to tell us that you've never experienced (or heard of) people of any nationality other than Nigerian doing the actions you've described, and that the number of actual occurrences are low enough that its statistically valid to draw a conclusion from a single sample, then your "logic" would seem to be rapidly heading towards what many would consider bigotry.

The only two Ukrainian people I've ever met were both fantastic looking blonde women. Can I conclude from this that Ukraine is, in fact, peopled entirely (or even significantly) by naturally-blonde good-looking women?

If I can't, then consider that you just more or less used the same logic to reach (or at least support) a similar conclusion.

jc

GuanYin

Ah bonkey

I notice that the "Nelly is a pink elephant, therefore all elephants are pink" line of reasoning is quite rife among our more xenophobic posters.

Like I said, somebody show me stats to say that the percentage of convictions in the IRish nigerian population is higher than the percentage convictions in all other populations in IReland please.

Thorbar

I haven't read up enough about this to make a decision on whether its right or wrong for the Irish government to be deporting these people. Having said that I really can't see any way in which its right to be dragging a kid on to a plane the middle who's suppose to be sitting his leaving in a few months.

Does anyone with more economic knowledge then myself have any idea on how much the man-hours to organise this deportation effort cost? And how much suppose damage would it be to the economy if they were simply given work permits and allowed to contribute to society? Just from a purely Ultilitarian point of view is the Irish economy losing or gaining from deporting these people?

por

Thorbar wrote:

Does anyone with more economic knowledge then myself have any idea on how much the man-hours to organise this deportation effort cost? And how much suppose damage would it be to the economy if they were simply given work permits and allowed to contribute to society?

Then you would be simply inviting anyone to come to ireland to work regardless of their skills or how they would contribute to the economy. What happens when thses people cannot \will not find work, do you give them welfare ?, do you house them in hostel ?, or do you send them back ?.

The solution is this
1. Speed up asylum process so people will either be allowed stay or sent back in a resaonable time period
2. Introduce a residency system based on a persons qualification\skills.

If some Nigerian or Chineese or Butaneese person manages to get into the country with going through the 2 processes above and overstays there visa (as Irish do in the US) well that is there problem and if they get caught they get sent back, (as Irish do in the US)

Sleepy

neuro-praxis wrote:

I find the whole thing quite distressing especially where children are concerned. No child should be abandoned by any adult authorities. We have failed him.

So he's been exploited by everyone, given a chance at asylum in Ireland, lied on his application and refused asylum for that reason and we've failed him?

As long as all 35 people had their due process I don't see any problem here at all.

I do agree however, that a properly funded and run immigration department is needed in this country and we're a long way from that.

sovtek

the_syco wrote:

Its only suprising when every African person I've talked to has said that Nigerians are dodgy.

Being general, I would imagine it has something to do with Nigeria being a hell hole for the average Nigerian.

ionapaul

sovtek wrote:

Being general, I would imagine it has something to do with Nigeria being a hell hole for the average Nigerian.

A classic on that very subject from our friends at the Onion:

http://ascc.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/nigeria_counterpoint.html

neuro-praxis

Sleepy wrote:

So he's been exploited by everyone, given a chance at asylum in Ireland, lied on his application and refused asylum for that reason and we've failed him?

Yes. He's an orphan - a child here utterly alone. Surely you don't expect children to have the

(a)wisdom
and
(b)moral standards

of adults?!

Try seeing this from a human perspective rather than from a purely economic one.

- - An interesting aside, by the way: something I have learned about Nigerian culture is that the higher your rank in society there, the more right you have to skip a queue. Sometimes you'll find Nigerian folks here hopping to the top of the queue as they always have done back home. It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

uberwolf

neuro-praxis wrote:

It's not ignorance - it's a culturally ingrained habit.

it is ignorance, ignorance of Irish culture. which is an aside TBH.

On the topic of this individual child. It does seem unfortunate. However he was established to have been a lier. SO what part of his application was in anyway true? As far as anyone reviewing the case I'd imagine you'd have to presume it was all false.

I'd be nervous about allowing circumstances once here dictate our policy. If he's in the country then everything after that has to be in admissable. Otherwise there's be chaos. It is however an imperative that the process be sped up so that similar issues cann't arise in the future.

neuro-praxis

uberwolf wrote:

it is ignorance, ignorance of Irish culture. which is an aside TBH.

I quite obviously meant ignorance in terms of rudeness. They are not being rude, just unaware of Irish culture.

On the topic of this individual child. It does seem unfortunate. However he was established to have been a lier. SO what part of his application was in anyway true? As far as anyone reviewing the case I'd imagine you'd have to presume it was all false.

Number one. This was not established. This is what I think must have happened because of his particular situation. He would not be the only child who might have done this.

Number two. If you were actually reviewing the case you would have some sensitivity to the individuals involved and not simply reduce them to numbers and statistics. It is very, very understandable that a child (or an adult for that matter) would lie if it meant a livable, bearable life. Don't be
sanctimonious. There would be no question of assuming everything an unaccompanied child said was false.

I'd be nervous about allowing circumstances once here dictate our policy. If he's in the country then everything after that has to be in admissable. Otherwise there's be chaos. It is however an imperative that the process be sped up so that similar issues cann't arise in the future.

Of course you are nervous. It would be terrible if these asylum seekers actually got jobs in MacDonalds and moved next door to you.

What should actually be happening is they should not be on social welfare at all, but should be filling all those jobs that no Irish people are willing to do and getting integrated into the community and educated and Irish-ized.

As it is, most of them are living in places like Mosney with the sword of Damocles hanging over them.

Victor

mycroft wrote:

Any half decent law firm has a contact number you can use day or night.

If you can get to a phone.

I live just around the corner from the Nigeria embassy in Dublin I noticed alot of activity outside the embassy, (a crowd of about two dozen, security, notice put on the door) just yesterday(monday).

Its not uncommon. I was actually walking down Leeson Park yesterday and asked by a black man (I suspect him of being Nigeran, but who knows, I've been in the South African Embassy) where the Nigeran Embassy was. I said "about 200 metres that way, you will see lots of Nigereans outside". Happily he went on his way.

I had also just passed the Indian Embassy, but the people outside that were pasty-white looking Mayo women.

Pass the American Embassy and you will see a nice long line down the street.