Ireland Let Themselves Down Again

daveirl

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thejollyrodger

Ireland Are Failures

Shameful

rugbug86

i dont know how u can say drico was class! he scored a try and thats about it. he had so many knock ons! and dropped balls and bad decisions. not captain material today and that hurts for me to say cos im his biggest fan. i thought hickie was great, and that dempsy wasnt in it at all, but i suppose its what each of us makes of it.

PowerHouseDan

I didnt think Murphy was good at all. Brian and Ronan only players who you would say had a good match.France were the better team on the day no question.

Notice the decision regarding kicking for the Corner was O'Driscolls, O'Gara pointed at the posts but Brian pointed for the corner, this is why we need o'Connel making the decisions, he's cool headed and wont just jump at any opportunity to try making a name for himself.

powerhousedan

powerhousedan wrote:

I didnt think Murphy was good at all. Brian and Ronan only players who you would say had a good match.France were the better team on the day no question.

Johnny O'Connor was the best Irish player on the pitch.

Nukem

daveirl wrote:

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Absolute Sh1te was Bryne and Corrigan

daveirl wrote:

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Dempsay did WHAT? Exactly WHAT? Nothing beside defend. Will agree Hickie and Murphy very very Slack

daveirl wrote:

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My thoughts are Strings showed up and ROG was on another planet and tried too hard. BOD what can i say? you ask him to deliver and he does no questions asked.

daveirl wrote:

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I possibly don't think you could have said a more truer word. Ireland stand up and be counted no more pussy footing. Your world class now act it.

PowerHouseDan

I Didnt see Rog do anything wrong, I think he played well.Best out of a Bad bunch, Besides, O Connor.

daveirl

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rugbug86

speaking of leinster, can ya believe darcy is injured again? damn ospreys!

D'arcy will be back for Wales (touch wood) and he'll run riot, he probably cant wait to rip into Gavin Henson from 30 yards.

Nukem

powerhousedan wrote:

I Didnt see Rog do anything wrong, I think he played well.Best out of a Bad bunch, Besides, O Connor.

\
I think he didnt - he chipped ahead and all i could see was LES BLUE,look this was my opinion - If the you know how to play and it works, dont change it,that close to the line Ireland should have just waited and played it tight and rouched and mauled up the middle,,,,,,,,, its tried tested and proven.

Nukem

daveirl wrote:

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Yes 100% - its a crying shame he cant

thejollyrodger

Ireland have been cagey every game in the 6 nations. Its pathetic. we never went out to win any of the games and any talk from the rugby players of really beliving is complete bollócks. They deserved to get a monkeying today

RuggieBear

Well...maybe not...

i thought ireland were poor again today for the 4th match in a row....

foley was pants, stringer was pants, ROG kept kicking the ball away....murphy was apalling....that was Maggs last game for ireland we all witnessed today!

Corrigan did ****all, easterby gave away the softest of penalties....JOC was ok at turnovers and slowing the ball down but he is not a good continuity openside.

The lineout was a shmbles. Bynre and his jumpers/lifters need to be put in an ice bath over night as punishment for that inept display...

And the worst part is that France were so ordinary.

christ i could go on and on and.....

thejollyrodger

Can we win the triple crown ? Yes and no. Going by this shambolic display in the 6 nations so far it wouldnt inspire confidence. Still better to salvage something from this season and time to rebuild.

dudara

Ireland played well at times today, which makes the rest of it all so disappointing and gutting. They are a world class team, but they seem reluctant to show it.

O'Driscoll's try was a piece of class, but then he made to decision to go for that corner instead of the obvious and logical penalty. Why???

I'm just hoping that this defeat will give them fire for the Wales match

CJhaughey

Nukem wrote:

A Ireland stand up and be counted no more pussy footing. Your world class now act it.

That is where I take exception.
Ireland are not world class , they have a decent set of backs and a couple of good loose forwards.
If they were world class they would have gone out and mauled France off the field, and come away with a victory.
France didn't play spectacularly well you have to admit which makes Irelands loss all the more disappointing.

jonno

Jaysus I'm gutted after that display. What made it even worse was that France weren't as spectacular as they were against Wales but we just made it easy for them. However they did give us a display of what you can do when your forwards play well. That was their platform all day.

As for us, well, we were never in it in the first half except for ROG's kicks. In the second half we started exerting a bit of pressure on them when we played around the fringes with some of our forwards doing the best work they did all day. I remember one set of phases when we gained nearly 20 metres through two or so phases of playing it tight and then we decide to bring the backs into it and we lose that ground again. We got the penalty from it and BOD decided to go for the lineout. It's easy in hindsight to say it was the wrong decision but I think his decision was based on the fact that we had them under the cosh for those few moments of the game and why not try for the 7 points. In hindsight the 3 points would have been the better option.

Then onto our performance - well the front row were never at the races. Didn't notice Reggie or The Bull at all. Byrne and his jumpers had a bad day at the office as well. POC was very quiet and MOK was too except for the occasional look of enthusiasm/drive about him. The back row were **** except for JOC who I thought did well on the ground considering he was practically working on his own. Miller, Horan and Sheehan should have been brought in much earlier. Stringer looked out of his depth and what he was doing trying those sniping runs around the fringes into the French front row is beyond me. The first time he tried it he got clattered and needed attention. The second time he allowed the French to turn it over. ROG did well considering the pressure he was under on some occasions. As for the backs, only BOD and Hickie showed up today. Murphy decided that it would be better to run it out of our defence than try and put it safe on most occasions. Maggs was ineffective.

Our biggest problem today however was the lack of desire to tackle the French. Instead of moving up and trying to take them to ground we decided to sit back and wait for them to run at us - automatically gaining a few metres every time. The first try for them was a very good example of it. No tackles going in and the French exploited it and with some decent passes made the drift/cover defence useless. Another problem was that we relied on BOD to produce something (which he did in style). And last but not least why the hell did Stringer take so long on playing the ball from that last ruck. Betsen quite rightly went in and clattered him but I thought he was offside when he came in from the side once MOK had recovered the ball.

thejollyrodger

Ireland and the media built themselves up to be capable of winning the 6 nations( England soccer style). The last few matches have really borne out the truth that were nothing more than a 1/2 decent team. A string of meaningless friendlies mean NOTHING. Some of the wins were scrappy themselves and 1 or 2 pointers.

Beating Scotland counts for nothing. We scrapped through Italy and England are rebuilding. So far we havent seen any rugby from this Irish team and the Frence were true winners.

What a pathetic display today

kenmc

crap crap crap crap.
what a load of bo||ox. ODriscoll, save the try, was not even there. He was on the plane with the lions..... so many handling errors it wasn't even funny.
Dunno what the hell dempsey is still doing floating around after all these years... he's pants. got turned soooo easily for Baby try. and was always coming off his wing AGAIN - he forgets that he's been replaced at full back.
And as for stringer f*cking up at that last ruck.... spreadbury told him a few times to use the ball... what the hell was he waiting for.
Missed D'Arcy big time.
Lineout didn't function, we were mauled off the park.... what a horrible day for Irish rugby.
I presume that Baby will get a citing for that totally unprovoked headbutt on odriscoll though. bloody hell how did he get away with that??? deserved a good trmpling by the pack, and a few broken ribs to boot.... nothing on planetrugby bout that yet though....
loved Balshaws f*ck up at the end of the Eng-Italy game though. what a f*ckin knobend..... he's not changed much in the while he's been dropped.... nothing to fear there anyway!

DirtyHarry

to be honest why go for the penalties? ROG was right to kick to the corners, what good is 3 points when you can try for 7 and possible win from it. You wouldnt of been guaranteed more penalties after either. Ireland needed trys, not penalties.

I thought the french played good rugby at times, not there best display by far tho. When they get going they play the best rugby in the world. Fact.

As for Ireland, well its not all lost yet. But i dont think we are (yet) a world class team.

Damn good game! Fitzsimmons pub in temple bar was where i saw it! damn good atmosphere!

fightin irish

Quick question as an armchair supporter.

What is the ''mathematics'' of Ireland winning the 6 nations, assuming we beat Wales that is?

qwertyup

If we beat Wales, we need to have a superior points difference to them (and France, assuming they beat Italy) to win the 6 Nations.

carrollmark

Theres an awful lot of knee jerk rubbish in this thread.

First off France are the 6 Nations champions, having won the Grand Slam several times over the last few years. Anyone who expected this to be a walk in the park was misguided.

Too many recent converts to the game who have become used to us winning expect nothing less ...... win and we're world class, lose and we're a disaster.

The truth is somewhere in between.

France, yesterday showed a level of aggressive forward play that only the all blacks could match. They held a very high defensive line bordering on offside for the whole game, with the result that our backs had little space to work in and were pressured into the type of sloppy knock ons mentioned eralier.

Secondly, while we proclaim to have the best back line in the world, France are capable of wonderfuly inventive running and rarely spill the ball.

We weren't at our best, probably because our forwards couldnt maintain the same intensity for 80 mins as the French, but guarantee if we'd pulled it out of the fire, and we nearly bloody did, the armchair critics here would be singing a different tune.

We could be double triple crown winners and six nations champions this time next week, so a sense of perspective should be applied.

nlgbbbblth

daveirl wrote:

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I agree; kicking for goal at that stage could have turned things our way.

I was trying to argue that point to a guy in the pub last night. His attitude was that it would have made no difference whatsoever. His reasoning was along the lines "Well we lost by 7 points, if we had kicked that penalty and scored we would have lost by 4 points. A loss is a loss is a loss"

I hate people who say "A x is a x is a x" :rolleyes:

Mothman

fightin irish wrote:

Quick question as an armchair supporter.

What is the ''mathematics'' of Ireland winning the 6 nations, assuming we beat Wales that is?

We would need to beat Wales by 4 more points than Wales beat Scotland today. France would need to score a bucketload against Italy, something like an extra 30 point margin over above our winning margin over Wales. Something they are very capable of.

This is the simplest I can make it at moment

DirtyHarry

DirtyHarry wrote:

to be honest why go for the penalties? ROG was right to kick to the corners, what good is 3 points when you can try for 7 and possible win from it. You wouldnt of been guaranteed more penalties after either. Ireland needed trys, not penalties.

I thought the french played good rugby at times, not there best display by far tho. When they get going they play the best rugby in the world. Fact.

As for Ireland, well its not all lost yet. But i dont think we are (yet) a world class team.

Damn good game! Fitzsimmons pub in temple bar was where i saw it! damn good atmosphere!

Rugby is turning into a percentages game, and with 12 minutes to go the only choice was to go for the sticks, Percentages say that we would've gotten at least one more chance to score a try, we had france on the backfoot, reducing their lead to 6 would've made for a very nervous last ten mintues in the french camp. Instead we went for the corner and it took us 5 minutes to score, leaving only 5/6 minutes of nervousness from France. Which we couldn't capatilise on because we ourselves were nervous, watching the clock tick away.

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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I like the look of that team, especially the back row... but you just know that EOS isn't going toi shake things up (EDIT:just read your irishrugby message...re steady eddie ). I'd like to see ROG dropped . I'm not sure what the hell is wrong with him but he is playing well within what we know he can produce.

Watched the A game on Friday.....was very impressed by Campbell, made a couple of excellent snipes and his link play was great....such a pity he can't pass at all (worse that easterbunny)

daveirl

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RuggieBear

quinlan was very good in the A international....actually the entire back row was good....Jennings is getting better and better. Last week he ended up on the wing for Leinster and scored a cracking try....Wilson was good too but overshadowed by the other two...

Nukem

Would agree as well Foley has gone off the boil? Easterby is still being picked-why,oh why, Jennings is immense every match i see him.Quinlan what can ya say for his size he is mobile and never shys from anything.Miller is great goin forward.

Would love to see

1.Horan
2.Shehan
3.Hayes
4.MOK
5.POC
6.Quinlan/Jennings
6.Quinlan/Jennings/JOC
8.Miller
9.Campbell/Easterby
10.ROG
11.Hickie
12.Darcy (doubtful)
13.BOD
14.Horgan
15.Murphy/Dempsey

jonno

Yeah I agree that change is needed but I don't think it will happen. For one EOS is too loyal to his first 15 and secondly because it's the last game of the tournament.

I'd like to see:

Horan
Munch
Hayes
MOK
POC
Quinlan (deserves a chance - has been great this season for Munster)
JOC/Jennings
Miller
Stinger (no real opposition as far as EOS is concerned)
ROG
Hickie
D'Arcy (doubtful)
BOD
Horgan (also doubtful)
Murphy/Dempsey

Mothman

Mothman wrote:

We would need to beat Wales by 4 more points than Wales beat Scotland today. France would need to score a bucketload against Italy, something like an extra 30 point margin over above our winning margin over Wales. Something they are very capable of.

This is the simplest I can make it at moment

Got that totally wrong as I wasn't allowing for the Welsh difference falling by the amount that we beat them by.

jonno

We are 25 points behind Wales now so we have to beat them by that or more to win the Championship AFAIK.

We are certainly capable of putting a few tries over if our pack functions as a unit and supplies the platform for Stringer to feed the likes of BOD, Murphy and Hickie. Hopefully one of D'Arcy or Shaggy will be available as well to add more to our attack.

Thraktor

Nope, we have to beat them by 13, for every point we beat them by our points difference goes up and their's goes down.

Scotland's disallowed try and the one we shipped against france in the last minute could come back to haunt us!

jonno

Thraktor wrote:

Nope, we have to beat them by 13, for every point we beat them by our points difference goes up and their's goes down.

Yeah you're right. Sorry wasn't thinking straight

pwd

Ireland ranked 5th in world after that match. Were 4th before it. (France overtook us). Wales is quite far down the rankings as I recall.
I kind of thought France would win, which is why I didn't watch it. Irish teams in all sports seem to do better when they are the underdogs, or coming from behind though; something to do with the mentality of people here as a whole. If this is true then the team will be in a better position psychologically to face the Welsh next week.
France are a strong side anyway.

thejollyrodger

Looking back on that Frence game was shameful and pathetic.

we can easily beat the welsh by 13 points. I hope we do and give them a proper lesson in rugby. The fellas have the weight off their shoulders and so shouldnt fúck up as badly next week.

Doubt Dary will be fit though

CJhaughey

As see it the result we got on Saturday was the product of EOS's limited imagination in player selection.
Look at the French team, in this 6N they have blooded Nyanga and Baby both top class players, who has EOS introduced bar Darcy since Gatland left?
There is no real competition for places, ergo no need for the incumbents to perform or push themselves.

IMHO EOS also plays a very conservative gameplan as witnessed by G Murphys comparative quietness.
The lack of a meaningful Pack is maybe the key difference at this level , France were able to boss the match , mauling when they felt like it and gaining valuable field position.
I don't have much hope for this team against Wales I am sorry to say.
They seem to have what Ireland do not Invention and... confidence?

thejollyrodger

Ireland have always been 1 dimensional , very defensive and negative at times. We have few quality players. The worst part is that we have less coming through the ranks than the likes of Scotland and Wales, too many youngters are wasting their time at GAA.

In the next year or so its going to become apparent that there is no pack. everyone is over the hill.

we cant even properly put away poor oppostion like italy and scotland. I have yet to see this team demolish another team.

Mike_Hunt

Not only in the context of Saturdays debacle but would anyone else agree that apart from some brief spells of good play Brian O'Driscoll is rubbish. His kicking is woeful and he always kicks when he should pass it out wide. He knocks on way too much. He tries to lay the ball back after being tackled and loses it 9 times out of 10. In saying that he didnt deserve the head butt from Benoit Baby - is he being cited for that???? He should be.

Eoin

pwd wrote:

I kind of thought France would win, which is why I didn't watch it..

What? Do you only watch matches you think Ireland will win?

CJhaughey

Mike_Hunt wrote:

Not only in the context of Saturdays debacle but would anyone else agree that apart from some brief spells of good play Brian O'Driscoll is rubbish. His kicking is woeful and he always kicks when he should pass it out wide. He knocks on way too much. He tries to lay the ball back after being tackled and loses it 9 times out of 10. In saying that he didnt deserve the head butt from Benoit Baby - is he being cited for that???? He should be.

As a matter of fact I would not agree that BOD is Rubbish.
He always tries to give 100% and is marked for special attention during matches.
You say he tries to lay the ball back after being tackled, That is exactly what you are supposed to do, even more so with the new rule changes in effect.
You also claim that his kicking is woeful , have to disagree there too, I'm afraid.
his chipping and positional kicking is nearly always top class.
In fact I really have to say that I think that you are talking tripe when you say he is rubbish.

Jak

To say BOD is rubbish is just ridiculous. He is without question one of the greatest centres in the game. His contribution over his career to the Irish team has been immense and to suggest otherwise is indicative of someone who has simply not watched him play or has some grudge.

In terms of the game, it was very unfortunate to lose to France, however, we did not deserve to win or even be contesting for a win in that game. From the stands the team generally seemed to lack focus and to move with an apathetic lethargy. One particularly striking aspect of the game was the number of times we had only a handful of players outfield because 7 or 8 were piled on the ground and didn't make it up and back into the lines. I remember thinking how lucky we were that the French didn't expose those gaps more.

In terms of this tournament we never really 'destroyed' any opposition bar the scottish victory. We scraped through some games against teams who have not been on the best of form - England, Italy. Personally I believed, we could win the grand slam, but more related to the cyclically weak nature of our opponents this year than the form we showed in the opening games. Losing key players early on has been a factor however and having the core of our back line (arguably our strongest link in the game) broken, did serious damage to the creativity and organisation therein.

I still believe we can beat Wales and I am looking forward to heading over for the match. The Welsh have been good, but I do not think their defence is very sturdy and if we have our back line in order I would hope for a high scoring match ultimately in our favour.

JAK.

Hairy Homer

How many times did Martin Johnson's England win the Grand Slam? Once. And that was when they were so determined to do it they caused a scene before kick off, insulting our president and insisted on using their own balls for every line out. (Decider 2003 at Lansdowne Road)

Why? Because it's bloody hard to win the Slam, even when you have massive strength in depth like England and France do.

I'm told my nine year old son burst into tears when France scored the clinching try. He's used to seeing Ireland win at home. This decade has been one of our best ever in terms of victories. Normally we win 40 per cent of matches. Since the start of the Six Nations in 2000 we have won 21 out of 29 (that's over 72 per cent). Little does he know what an unrequited love affair it is supporting the Irish team in the long run.

France deserved it. Thumped us in the line outs, beat us in the scrums and their backline's hands were like flypaper, whereas our passing movements ended in knock ons or balls to ground.

No complaints. Better team one.

Hope they can get their heads together to beat Wales. We are due at least one stirring performance this year. So far we have stuttered against Italy, crushed Scotland with a dour up the jumper performance and beaten England with a doughty rear guard action.

G'wan Ireland!! Show Wales how hard it is to win a slam.

Mike_Hunt

Ok time to defend my statements i think

Eoin_s: errrr no I have been a player and a fan for many years now and i've still been a fan even when Ireland were going through some of their worst periods.

CJHaughey: above point should confirm yes I do know what you are supposed to do but a good player will know when to pass the ball and when to set up the next phase. As far as i see BOD only sees the line and the play 8 or 9 times out of 10 stops with him. Rarely passes out the line.

Thank god for Gordon D'Arcy pity he has been dogged by injury this season.

I see this is real BOD country so I will try to go easier on him - I spose he has a nice hairstyle!!

The Rooster

Can't drop Geordan Murphy!!

I predict Eddie will switch Geordan and Swerve, and Murphy will obliterate Shane Williams on Saturday.

Would like to see Quinlan and Miller replace Easterby and Foley. We would miss Easterby in the lineouts, but we'd gain more elsewhere. TBH I dont think we'd miss Axel at all - but he would be a very useful sub for the last 15/20 minutes of a game. Would also like to see Horan in for Reggie. But I'd predict Eddie will give the old stagers one last stand, unfortunately.

We couldnt cope with the Grand Slam pressure this year, but we'll come back against Wales and we'll win by more than the 13 we need. Just hope France dont wallop the Italians by more than 40!

Trojan

Desperately disappointing result for us Sat, but entirely expected. We haven't ever hit form this season, the only good sign being that we were continuing to beat all-comers while playing badly. France are a great side, and while we might expect to beat lesser sides when we're not playing well, we can't expect to play badly against Les Bleus and win. It's a sign of our strength that we almost stole it (and that would have brought both the French and the Irish to tears albeit for different reasons).

It was mentioned (in one of the papers?) that the French rubbed it in by doing a lap of honour - on the contrary, I'd consider that an honour. The players and fans relief was palpable: they were in shock when we dragged ourselves to within 2 points.

On the subject of tries, yes, their 2nd try was extremely questionable. However, for our try I believe that anyone else who was on the East side of the ground would have seen one of our flankers pulling on the jersey of one of theirs (players involved were 6 and 7, I can't recall which was which). I don't know if the French player could have made a try stopping tackle, but it was a definite penalty to France to my mind. The referee was extremely close, I'm not sure if he saw it.

All in all, an extremely disappointing day, but such is life in this new era of EOS. Let's not forget the dismal 90's and spending freezing cold days in Lansdowne getting hammered by all visitors.

Bring on the Welsh - we have a nice record in Cardiff, let's stretch that to 22 years unbeaten there, and pick up a Championship on the way.