Most Influential Gun In History

Citizen_Erased

Just thought about this last night. What is the most influential gun of all time. I'm not just taking about numbers made and stuff because then it would be all AK's. I'm talking about other aspects such as sheer leeps in technology etc... (and small arms only)

Do it under differant categories of gun if you want.

I currently dont have any clue on this one myself though

The Peacemaker Colt?? That and the winchester repeater really ended the Indians (Native Americans) chances...

E@gle.

in ireland probaly the single barell shotgun.

Citizen_Erased

original_psycho wrote:

The Peacemaker Colt?? That and the winchester repeater really ended the Indians (Native Americans) chances...

I can see that point and both guns were fore runners in technology, but from the point of their impact, surely then the Ak would have it because very little thing in the whole of history have killed more than it? (strange, i am starting to convince myself a little too)

I am failing to see the significance of the single bore shotgun?

Irishglockfan

The Maxim machine gun is credited with the most kills in the trenches of ww1
In a pure slaughter no it still holds the record.
The AK in the sense of simplicity of use,manufacture and availability.

Sparks

There are several that could be pointed to - the 1898 Mauser as it became the standard design for nearly every military and hunting rifle for many years later; the original colt revolver; the Stg44 assault rifle that became the standard design for all modern military rifles including the AK-47.

Thing is, those are designs not individual firearms. Perhaps the rifle that shot Kennedy would be a candidate? Perhaps the pistol used by John Wilkes Booth?

civdef

My money doesn't go on a gun, but on a bullet - the Minie ball - which made rapid accurate rifled fire possible after centuries of design stagnation.

Musashi

The original Gatling gun, the design is still used in mini-guns and as tank busters in the "Warthog" aircraft.

Fallschirmjager

from a ww2 perspective i think the ppsh from the ruskies has to be up there and also the terrifying mg42. as i recall this is still in the same design loop today give or take a small modd or 2.

the garand for being (apparently) the first ww2 auto rifle

more modern i think the current m4, the new m16 thing for it ability to change with the rail systems and i believe they have a gas directon change to allow for a 3 round burst without kickback until after last round...altho i am far from a expert so that could be total BS ...LOL!!!! i know there a lotta reasons for hating it but there u go...

the pistol front has gotta goto the glock range. remeber the plastic paranoia in the press about everyone sneaking them onto planes and thats why they should be banned. another reason to not believe the press...!!! i mean anything that blocky and reliable -- it has also become a bit of a design favourite with the hollywood types...

and the truly scary barrett .50. why. well a sniper rifle that big that fires, let be honest, a fecking anti tank round has gotta be a winner...

macnas

Maybe a certain Mannlicher-Carcano????

stevenw

Irishglockfan wrote:

The Maxim machine gun is credited with the most kills in the trenches of ww1
In a pure slaughter no it still holds the record.
The AK in the sense of simplicity of use,manufacture and availability.

You're weird.

civdef

You're weird.

I'm impressed that you apparently made the effort to register just to make that your first post. Any chance of following it up with some constructive contribution to the thread?

E@gle.

I suppose that you have to look at the fact that guns were used in different places and different era's.

Anyone know what the longest serving gun is.

Irishglockfan

Civ,
I'll take Stevenw post as a backhanded compliment
Moving right along.On guns that changed the world how about a beretta,I belive that was used in Sarajevo in August 1914 on the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife?Consuquences of that shot WW1 and quite possibly ww2,not to mind a very nasty civil war in Yougoslavia in the 1990s.

Longest serving gun?
Proably the AK or the mauser 1896 type rifle in all its varients,followed by the M16.
Most significant development in firearms the invention of the cartridge,followed by the easiest workable single shot action. Most recent the HKG11 caseless ammo rifle.Next stop hydrostatic ammo,or a man carryable railgun.[power and microcircutry ar a problem]

Citizen_Erased

I dont see the impotance of the Beretta , there only real contribution to the pistol design was that they exposed a section of the barrel. Id go more for the origional brownings.

The M16 has gone through several models etc since its first appearance, soo it isnt truely long running. The FCA and the Irish defense force still use Brens sure...

Barry Aldwell

Little_Wing wrote:

The M16 has gone through several models etc since its first appearance, soo it isnt truely long running. The FCA and the Irish defense force still use Brens sure...

Compared to some things I've seen in stores, the Bren is relatively new.

Irishglockfan

Irishglockfan wrote:

I'll take Stevenw post as a backhanded compliment

Proving his point then arent you - taking pride in being a total gun nut

A fact also being proven by your complaints about the ban on "unsporting semi auto rambo guns" which even you admit that thye "have no place in civilised society"

You wonder why people have bad impressions about the gun commununity??

I accept that you have a right to your belief, but see how bystanders like Stevenw view you?

I accept your views, you are entitled to them but you must accept that a large percentage of the population (who, as voters control the future of gun use) do not accept nor even understand your views on gun use.

kadman

Vinnie Jones would say .....Desert Eagle.50


kadman

Irishglockfan

Proving his point then arent you - taking pride in being a total gun nut

Thats right and PROUD of it!! :rolleyes:
BTW do you think to have a moniker as "original psycho"on a gun board is painting you in a better light?Pot callin the kettle black and all that???



A fact also being proven by your complaints about the ban on "unsporting semi auto rambo guns" which even you admit that thye "have no place in civilised society"

Sigh!! go read the post again Psycho I was quoting what the more hidebound traditionlist shooters in the UK thought of them!!

You wonder why people have bad impressions about the gun commununity??

To quote Clint Eastwoods chacter Dirty Harry"Opinions are like assholes.Everyone has one".
People will make up their minds on things wether you or I say anything to the contrary.Well,if you and they judge a lifestyle on one arguement.I suppose I can judge all arguements and groups of humanity on one experiance or one arguement from one person repesenting that group.
So all soccer fans are violent hooligans,all people who ever smoked a joint are drug dealers and will use hard drugs.All politicans are greedy and corrupt.Kinda simplistic outlook isint it??

Who is Stevenew anyway???A one poster possibly 12year old kid doing abit of trolling??
.Hey,I know I am not pouplar in some parts,but I am not running for office somwhere and I belive in straight talking.There is no point in calling a spade a manual powerd earth inverting horticultural impliment.

I accept your views, you are entitled to them but you must accept that a large percentage of the population (who, as voters control the future of gun use)
do not accept nor even understand your views on gun use[/

Oh thank you for allowing me to have a differing opinon!
The large precent of the pouplation will vote anyway the devils aka the goob tube indoctrinates them to vote ,think or act,or what their daily dose of smut rag what they belive to be a "newspaper" tells them.

You of all people should know the voters control nothing in reality.They vote in one or the other bunch of scoundrels every five years who got in on some sort of promise to do somthing to keep the flock of sheep...er..voters from voting them out again when their job review comes up.It is the oldest trick in the book since Roman times.Panne Et Circense.Bread and circuses.Keep the pouplation occupied with distractions,in any shape or form,[in this case guns are baaaad,]arguement and bread[ban hese nasty guns and we the nice govt will look after all your saftey and security],and you can have a high old time ruling them as you please.When the bread or circuses runs out you have a problem.Or when he actual voters start to sit down and realise what a rotten deal they have been getting.Then you have a problem.

Anyway,my friend I think you have a problem with my opinions.If so and you want a flamewar so be it,but lets not use this board to do so.Other folk no doubt dont want to read us trading dopey childish comments.No doubt we can pm each other,and vent spleens in private.We can disagree in a civilised manner with each other on the board,without having to go to chacter assination,or we can discuss this by phone ,or mano a mano over a beer ,or in the back alley behind the bar.What's it to be?

Little wing
I was talking about the gun type that was used to shoot the Archduke.Not it's historical development in firearms history.
You are right about the M16 but so has the AK! Their original mechanisms havent changed much just their apperances. The m16a1 has pretty much the same function and action as the M4.As has the ak47 and the AKSU Krinkov

Sparks

Irishglockfan wrote:

To quote Clint Eastwoods chacter Dirty Harry"Opinions are like assholes.Everyone has one".

True, but everyone has a vote as well Glock...

People will make up their minds on things wether you or I say anything to the contrary.

Yes, but if you and I put forward a compelling argument, we can influence how they decide on things. Perhaps not for everyone, but for a sufficently large majority that we wouldn't have to worry about losing our respective sports. But that requires pursuasion, not coercion...

Hey,I know I am not pouplar in some parts,but I am not running for office somwhere and I belive in straight talking.There is no point in calling a spade a manual powerd earth inverting horticultural impliment.

Nope, but there is a point in not calling it a carrot-munching, tree-hugging, long-haired, commie pinko spade

right on sparks

civdef

In fairness, I think IGF fan might have a point regarding original psycho's choice of username. Possibly one of the most frequent insults thrown at shooters by the ignorant is that shooters are "psychos" - so it hardly befits someone so apparently concerned about public perception to take the phrase as their username on a shooting forum.

stevenw

You seem a very contrary individual, Glocky. Your postings seem to imply that you have a great deal of passion and enthusiasm for shooting in Ireland. Yet, if you were that committed to it, then surely you would recognise that shooting's greatest adversary is bad PR and that comments, such as yours, help propagate the bad image that shooting has in the public conscious. Whilst it might not matter in more obscure web-forums, this messageboard is quite open and well known across the sporting and web-community. It would be a natural starting point for anyone wanting to learn about shooting in Ireland, be they potential participants or curious journalists. If you were prepared to make more considered postings that included constructive comments on relevant issues, then I would welcome your thoughts, but as they are they do more harm than good.

For the members of the shooting community, who strive to fight the bad PR and generate strong, positive publicity for the sport, your comments are as infuriating as they are frustrating and they certainly don't help to present shooting in a positive light. In a nutshell, you can be a part of the solution or you can be a part of the problem and although your contribution may be small, you're definitely in one catagory or the other. It's quite clear that as things stand, you are part of the problem.

stevenw

civdef wrote:

In fairness, I think IGF fan might have a point regarding original psycho's choice of username. Possibly one of the most frequent insults thrown at shooters by the ignorant is that shooters are "psychos" - so it hardly befits someone so apparently concerned about public perception to take the phrase as their username on a shooting forum.

Whilst, you're undoubtedly right, Civdef, in psycho's defence, if you look at the list of names who have contributed to this forum, his name doesn't seem that out of place. At worst it's a natural extension of what you see. We've an Irish_Glock_fan, an Eagle (presumably in reference to the desert eagle) and a contributor who's perspective on shooting owes a lot to Civil Defence. It doesn't read like a list of well balanced athletes.

Ardent

WTF? I'm no gun expert but I thought Glocks posts about which guns created history were pretty much on the money. Yet this thread has divulged into a moan about his passion for guns and about the bad PR with regards to guns in this country!

Is the thread not titled the "Most Influential Gun In History"?

Firstly, regarding my name: I am an extremely mild and uncompetitive character, and chose this moniker as a joke, a bad joke some might say and if it is causing such concern, I will change it, any suggestions?

Glock, Stevenw seems to have a very good turn of phrase for a 12 year old child and he has hit the problem spot on.

You claim that people will not listen to what you say and will vote what the box tells them to do?

If you sent your post about that childs death in Glasgow to the Times/Indo, people would listen, and all guns would have been blanket banned by 6.00pm that night.

Stop being so arrogant, and take in to account other peoples point of view, not just Joe non shooting Bloggs but target shooters like myself, who do not long for "rambo" guns.

you are alienating yourself from a very small community, one which needs as much support, both internally and externally as possible

civdef

Ardent - I agree this thread is drifting seriously, holding off on closing it because the original topic was a worthwhile one, and there have been good contributions.

Stevenw - I take it from your pronunciation on my username that you haven't the foggiest what Civil Defence is (here's a hint - nothing at all to do with guns). It seems that you've chosen to cast doubts on whether I'm "well-balanced" or not based on an ignorant assumption. To put it bluntly you're talking ****e, and that needs to stop.

RE*AC*TOR

The AK-47. Seems a bit trendy, but here's why...

The design dates from circa 1946 (although not really in use for ten years after). Its extremely simple to manufacture and operate, and is virtually indestructible. The ak-47 has spawned a host of imitators, and still remains in production today (Pakistan). The weapon has been used in more 20th century wars than any other, due mostly to the Soviet Union supplying them to 3rd world countries. To some its a symbol of liberation, to some of terrorism.

Ardent

Ardent wrote:

WTF? I'm no gun expert but I thought Glocks posts about which guns created history were pretty much on the money. Yet this thread has divulged into a moan about his passion for guns and about the bad PR with regards to guns in this country!

Is the thread not titled the "Most Influential Gun In History"?

Yes it is titled that, but what debate does not evolve?

This thread has highlighted certain people perspectives which, in my view, are not healthy to the gun community in Ireland and, again, in my opinion these perspectives should be openly debated.

Glocks post was worshipping a gun which has the most people accross more countries then ever before.

Why should this gun be associated with Irish Shooting? and why should Irish shooters be openly praising this weapon of mass destruction?

How does this benefit shooting in Ireland?

civdef

Glocks post was worshipping a gun which has the most people accross more countries then ever before.

Feel free to point out where you get the "worship" bit from. I don't read his post that way. Be careful about putting words in people mouths (or keyboards, as the case may be).

Ardent

original_psycho wrote:

Yes it is titled that, but what debate does not evolve?

This thread has highlighted certain people perspectives which, in my view, are not healthy to the gun community in Ireland and, again, in my opinion these perspectives should be openly debated.

Glocks post was worshipping a gun which has the most people accross more countries then ever before.

Why should this gun be associated with Irish Shooting? and why should Irish shooters be openly praising this weapon of mass destruction?

How does this benefit shooting in Ireland?

By all means, please feel free to start a new thread but, on this one, I don't care about your views with regards to guns in Ireland. I want to read about what people think are the most influential guns in history.

RuggieBear

tbh original_psycho and Stevenw should be banned from this forum for going off topic....lads, i've contributed to a few on topic threads regarding gun control and the like....go dig'm up...

anyway....pity you aren't including bigger weapons and assuming you aren't including artillery ....coz various cannons have been very influetial down thru the ages...

otherwise i reckon it's the ak series too....

Irishglockfan

Irishglockfan wrote:

The Maxim machine gun is credited with the most kills in the trenches of ww1
In a pure slaughter no it still holds the record.
The AK in the sense of simplicity of use,manufacture and availability.

That would make it the most destructive gun in histroy, not the most influential. Civ Def had it right when he mentioned the ammo, that influenced the development of guns,

But the rest of you seem to think that barbaric slaughter and buthchering is "influence" - again, think of the rep of Irish shooting.

stevenw

civdef wrote:

Ardent - I agree this thread is drifting seriously, holding off on closing it because the original topic was a worthwhile one, and there have been good contributions.

Stevenw - I take it from your pronunciation on my username that you haven't the foggiest what Civil Defence is (here's a hint - nothing at all to do with guns). It seems that you've chosen to cast doubts on whether I'm "well-balanced" or not based on an ignorant assumption. To put it bluntly you're talking ****e, and that needs to stop.

In my last message, I didn't cast an aspersion on you character. I said that the list of names of contributors to this forum, didn't read like a list of well-balanced athletes. This is a different statement from which you can't infer "an ignorant assumption".

I am fully aware of the function of civil defense. However, without wanting to get caught up on a minor detail, my previous point alluded to the fact that in the sphere of politics and media perception is reality. The phrase "civil defense" can be interpretted many ways and with a literal interpretation it fits neatly alongside IrishGlockFan and Eagle, contributing to the perceived image.

I concede that this thread has moved off topic, but this is something for which IrishGlockfan is equally responsible. I questioned (I concede, innarticulately) the nature of someone whose apparently instinctive choice for "most influentual gun" was something in the context of a dark, sinister period of human history. He could equally have chosen something positive, such as something related to UN peacekeeping duties, but he chose not to. He then used the thread to question my age and my reasons for ribbing him, which I should be entitled to responded to.

Interesting debate never occurs in predictable circumstances. I can guarentee that a thread on this subject would fall flat on it's face and become naught more than a mutual appreciation society. If the contributors to this thread are unable to rationally and objectively defend their viewpoints then perhaps it is because their viewpoints are undefendable and their arguements weak. The ability to defend an opinion is proportional to its validity. If the powers that be feel that banning me and psycho is the only way to defend their opinions, then so be it, but that clearly says more about fragility of their opinions, than it does about the appropriateness of our comments.

civdef

If the powers that be feel that banning me and psycho is the only way to defend their opinions, then so be it,

With all due respect to Ruggiebear - he isn't the "powers that be". Neither of the section mods have mentioned banning anyone, so don't go developing a persecution complex just yet.

I still don't accept your point about my username either- you're very clearly struggling to come up with a justification for your rash statements. What's the negative connotations of "Eagle" you're so worried about, by the way?

If I get back to the core of this thread, you seem to have a problem with understanding the concept of "influential". Look the word up in a dictionary maybe. You're taking people to task for not defining influential as being something that makes people feel all warm inside, have I got that right?

Irishglockfan

OK Psycho,play it your way.
Seeing that you seem to be pissed with me because i didnt agree with your" liscense further and appeasement is the answer to prevent further gun bans".which BTW was on a different thread to this,which you introduced here on some sort of petty spite.
You have to resort to chacter slander and insults to get your point across,and pretty poorly at that.In one post you tell somone to "shut up"because they had the adaucity to disagree with you.Further in the Glasgow airgun tragedy you claim that I advocate killing kid drug users.Where I was actually stating a political/social FACT of life of China .Where did i suggest that we should shoot drug dealers/users in that????.Next you blather on about a tradition not being a right and i point out that unfortuneatly you are wrong and give an example of common law that applies in Ireland and I am only too well aware of as a landowner.We can also include in this the right to roam arguement as this is as coming under common law as well.

Next sir,you accuse me of "worshipping" a gun to wit an AK47.For your information I own a semi automatic version of one it is called the MAK 90,which is currently in the USA.I do not worship any gun.And if i did what the Hell is it anyones busisness what my religion is??
Nor is it a "weapon of mass destuction," that for your information is a nuclear bomb or such like.
Well,i'll excuse on that one maybe you are just getting too emotive. Unless the irish peole have been totally asleep for the last 20plus years and never watched the news local and national,even the most jaded ignoramus will know an AK47.The fact is i dont want, or ever want a full auto AK,a semi auto rifle in a Ak configuration is a totally different matter.for your information there are also target rifles [which is what i have]based on the Ar15 and AK actions that look NOTHING like their original military parents.If you dont want one ,FINE.But there are some of us who might want one or a different type of rifle or handgun.Who the Hell are you to say what we can or cant have?We have put up for 35 years with being told what we can or cant have,and if it wasnt for an "outspoken" person who finally got up and belled the bloody cat,we would be still proably just sitting here talking theory,and going abroad to shoot anythin bigger than a 270!!.
You sound EXACTLY like the appeasers in the UK.Dismiss one type of gun or shooting because you didnt like it,and sold it down the swanee to save your paticular little niche.Not that it saved their treachous hides,they were hung up to dry as well by their govts,and voters who decided all guns are bad.

Next sir you have the teremity to call me Arrogant??Going by the way you have been posting here,and looking at some of your replies I would suggest you look to yourself before casting asperations on others!!! you are so arrogant to even consider that I am totally irish.it just shows you dont even read my posts properly,as i have stated in a few of them i am irish german american.so now you have two reasons to hate me more.i am a dam "furiner".
For your information sir,i have sent letters to the media alot stronger than anything posted here.Loooooog before this board was set up or the internet existed and wonders of wonders,no other guns were banned here in Ireland.Nor did the gaurds come and take me away,or were my liscenses,and as a matter of fact most people actually agreed with me and i was interviewd twice on radio about it,with most people that phoned in being in agreement with my views.Pity i dont have the tapes anymore as i could upload them as a audio file.Oh boy!if you think I am radical or outspoken you really ought to check out some of the US boards or even the European ones.I am a quiet conservative compared to some.

if i had the time and incliation sir i would consider taking legal action against you for posting such defamatory remarks on an open board.as these comments originated in ireland I will remind you and stevenew that you are resident in Ireland as we all are and therefore are obliged under irish libel law,which applies to the internet as well,as we all are to gaurd our tounges and writings!But i am not such a person to do such.i have more better things to do with my time,and i dont fight unarmed opponents.

Stevenew.
My title is Irishglockfan.Or MISTER Glock to you.!!
Well,lets see,your first post on the board is "your weird!"Hmmm care to quantify that statement??do you know me personally?Are you a qualified psychologist to make such weighty judgements?? if not i would advise you not to make such juvenile statements in a first post,so [1] you dont look like a complete idiot[2]people dont mistake you for a troll,which i possibly did,maybe.Maybe it would be smarter to say ,hi new here,what do you mean by the obscure statement?

For your information and psychos,as this thread was about the most influential gun in history.
I would consider that the Maxim machine gun used by the central powers in ww1,with it's appaling butchers bill of 14million dead of which it is estimated one quater of such was caused by machine gun fire of the maxim,i would consider that as quite an influence on the history of mankind and the history of warfare.! as little wig who started this thread suggested it is to be broken down into different subsections.
Two. being part of the problem or the solution is intresting .part of the problem as I see it is we have NOT been ouspoken enough here in ireland about shooting!we took 35yrs of BS lying down,and finally got off the ground this year and are tentaively moving on.good,and not to say that is wrong,but i think we have to be abit bolder.Being a cap in hand please sir can I have my pistol back attitude got us nowhere for that time frame.we had to kick the govt in the courts and i think if we occasionally show teeth it does not hurt us.As for curious journalists,that boogeyman that seems to scare some people on this board.After studying to be one many years ago,and decideing I couldnt stand parrotting back inaccury and being told how to propagandaise certain issues.i can tell you most will write any old tat that comes to mind when it comes to guns.you want to influence the media ,we should have a spokesperson from our umbrella sport groups,that makes it a point of informing any and every paper and Tv station that if the press have a quiery about somthing contact them.it is called a PR person.the antis have had them for years,why do you think it is the same sad face commenting on "bloodsports" year in and out on RTE?

Bad public relations are caused by morons shooting kids with airguns or shooting at busses or ambulances.Or idiot teen kids dressed as "wiggas" [white ni$%£ers a term coined in the LA ghettos by the african americans to describe white teens aping AFA culture,dress and music.see rap singer enimen] with an airsoft shoota showing it off to their pals and threatning doormen with such.
That is your bad Pr because then these young thugs are made out to be innocent little socially deprived [or depraved] darlings who access to nasty guns.S o that any further little lambs dont do anything silly.Lets ban ALL the nasty guns and knives etc.hark back to Gb after a shootout in a birmingham hairdresser with a full auto Mac 10 that had been reactivated.the hue and cry was for the brocock airpistols to be banned or put under sect 1 firearms category.Brocock air weapons contain a air pressurised air cartridge,and stimulate a real gun in that they make the actions work,etc.They had nothin to do with the incident but were demonised because some reporter claimed the brocock could be reconverted to fire live ammo!Ergo it was on the Tv so therefore it is true.Ban or liscense it! that is the truth of it.

now may i suggest somthing further.i suggested to psycho to take this off board and PM me if he had a problem with me.i suggest this again for any members who have a problem with each other.this he refused to do rather drag this onto an open forum,for whatever reaons of his.
If i dont like a certain thing in life,i generally find it best not to read,watch it,useit or in people to converse with them.if anyone has a problem with what i post.DONT READ THE DAMN THING!Discuss and disagree with me it in a civilised manner with me and i will respond with same.Insult me ,accuse me,expect the same in return.But i will be damned if i wil be told what line to toe by anyone here.[except by the moderators of course,as both Sparks and Civdef do own this board and I wouldnt show them such discourtsey.]

To the rest of you members I apologise for having to hijack this intresting thread to have to answer somones spitefulness and bile,and for you having to read what should be a PM.
Sermon over. I bid you all a good day.
Irish Glock

civdef

except by the moderators of course,as both Sparks and Civdef do own this board and I wouldnt show them such discourtsey.]

'Fraid not - I'm just another freeloader. If I did own the place I'd be charging higher rents!

Boards.ie history:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2370368#post2370368


Influential guns:

Dreyse Needle Gun - first design using the bolt-action principle.

Sparks

Okay you lot, settle down, and glock you can't take legal action against anyone here, you can't even prove that what you posted is what you posted to the satisfaction of a court of law in this country, let alone what anyone else posts. (I ought to know, I had to go look it up after that "outspoken person" you refer to - assuming we're thinking of the same dublin-based lad - threatened to sue me for stuff posted in here).

To those commenting on the usernames, yes, several of them are a bit daft, but you can't go about using your real name as a username for two reasons; one, many people feel more comfortable in here with anonymity (with notable exceptions) and two, if you had a real name as your username, how do we know that it's your real name? So long as it's not obscene, I don't think it matters much, this place is a sounding board and discussion forum, not a place where national level policy is officially decided upon!

And on the original topic, it's a sad, sad fact of human history that much of it is shaped through the deaths of people as much as through their acts. The deaths caused by the machine guns in WW1 and WW2 shaped the course of future years as much as did the acts of people in the peacetime in between the wars. Answering an academic question like the one the title poses necessitates a certain temporary abandonment of moral condemnation - in other words, we must read the book before we burn it...

Sparks is right - this has become to heated, partly due to me.

To this end, i propose to let it end, right now. no last words and if anyone has anyproblems, PM me.

we are all on the same side here, lets not forget that - i know i did

Citizen_Erased

It is true basicaly about every gun, many models flash by but they are basically the same, the same is true about just about everything in production.

What about the Origional Deringer, used to kill Lincoln.
What did the Kennedy man use again, The one in the depository that is :rolleyes:

PS Ireland Is Not The Country To Be A Gun Nut In, it causes bad naughty things

PPS IGF - use to think you were a bit out of touch reading whole books on Lugers etc.. - Now I can see your reasons I relise thats pretty cool (IThought you were pure Irish)

Citizen_Erased

RuggieBear wrote:

anyway....pity you aren't including bigger weapons and assuming you aren't including artillery ....coz various cannons have been very influetial down thru the ages...

If u think you can make a valid point, be my guest

RicardoSmith

Would have to be the maxim. Though you have the Paris gun, the 88mm, the 20mm Oblerkon (spelling?)

Citizen_Erased

Alot of people have now said the Maxim. But your choice aren't just limited to how many they have killed. Though on a differant note it was very innovative.
What about steyr AUG - they are completely modular or the The H+K advanced combat weapon - I dont wether this was actually finished but it could fire three shot bursts so quickely and in a manor that the firerer only felt it as one recoil. It also useses a caseless round. So did the Bernelli submachine gun - the powder was held in a skirt which followed the bullet and therefore nothing had to be extracted.
Successful or not , these guns were pretty advanced.

Sparks

Advanced, yes LW (and the H&K did make it to production but the H&K G36 was chosen over it for cost and standardisation reasons), but "most influential in history"? I mean, history offically begins about a few decades ago; some of those guns weren't even invented back then...

Citizen_Erased

Yes, I realise now the title is a bit off. Though I cannot also call it the best gun in history because , personnal preferences aside, modern guns would dominate.

RicardoSmith

Influential is the criteria. The Maxim basically changed how wars can fought. Both on the ground and in the air. Few guns have had that effect.

RicardoSmith

Little_Wing wrote:

Yes, I realise now the title is a bit off. Though I cannot also call it the best gun in history because , personnal preferences aside, modern guns would dominate.

Why? What do you mean by "best" ?

Citizen_Erased

Yes I cant quite get the name right. Also it should be "of all time" instead of history. I suppose you could get a number of forums out of it such as the biggest technical leap, the ultimate, most successful etc...

Irishglockfan

Psycho and I have aired our differences in PM,and I think both of us agree to retire from this field of conflict.It is ENDED HERE!

Little wing
the gun used to kill Kennedy was a mannlicher carcano.Good calibre ,POS gun
hence much speculation as to how Oswold actually shot Kennedy with it giving much rise to other assanins[sic] being there..

For oddities,how about the gyrojet rocket propelled bullet and it's launcher[cant really call it a gun can you?]it was promoted in the James Bond film live &let die,[i think] triangular in shape called "trounds" they actually worked,but never were very accurate.

If we are going to cannons.Well,how about the French quickfire breech loading cannon of ww1.first hydraullically dampned recoil system,which allowed it a rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute.
Or the Paris gun of ww1.German built it was able to lob quater ton shells 80 to 90 miles plus, into Paris from the German front lines.Only to be suceeded in WW2 by the THOR railway mortar.This threw TWO and a half Tonne shells somthing like 4miles and demolished the more impregable than the Maginot line Russian fortress of Sevastopol to rubble within a week.Apprently it is/was the most powerful active service non nuke weapon on the planet.no one seems to know what happened to it.

Or its somwhat bigger sister the DORA railway gun this monster was supposedly able to lob FOUR Tonnes to 140 miles!!! it was supposedly only fired ONCE.As it was so huge it was impractical to do anything with,and eventually the Russians nabbed it.it's fate is unknown as well.These were the most powerful non nuke weapons using powder as propellant on the planet.
Of which it is belived the Iraqui supergun would have been the only modern competitor in surpassing them in range.Or there was the US nuke cannon the Dragon.It was 155mm and designed to lob a nuke shell somthing like 20 miles.Sent to korea it was fortuneatly never used in that conflict.
point is alot of their recoil system designs have been integrated into HD style shock absorbers,etc ,and there is talk of using big guns for the space programme as a cheap alternative for satellite launching.Surely they have had an influence on human history for once in a peaceful manner if they will be used for the space programme.

Barry Aldwell

Irishglockfan wrote:

Or there was the US nuke cannon the Dragon.It was 155mm and designed to lob a nuke shell somthing like 20 miles.Sent to korea it was fortuneatly never used in that conflict.

You'll find that nuclear rounds have been produced in 155mm and 203mm by the yanks, and in god knows how many calibres by the russians. The guns weren't specifically nuclear, they could fire standard HE, illum etc. rounds

Citizen_Erased

Irishglockfan wrote:

For oddities,how about the gyrojet rocket propelled bullet and it's launcher[cant really call it a gun can you?]it was promoted in the James Bond film live &let die,[i think] triangular in shape called "trounds" they actually worked,but never were very accurate.


Or its somwhat bigger sister the DORA railway gun this monster was supposedly able to lob FOUR Tonnes to 140 miles!!!

Oh, yeah i read about that Gyrojet somewhere, not to succesful for obvious reasons.

Think I may have heard of that large gun, but did they actually fire it , i cant remember?