DS Getting slated!!

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

To be honest I was never really planning on getting a DS, well there was a few days there before I actually learn't anything about the PSP, but anyway, I just read an article by the editor of 1up.com and he dosen't really have anything good to say, but it could just be his choice of games.

here is the link to check out fer yerselves. .....LINK.....

Creamy Goodness

well what you expect from a person who likes the lost prophets.

ahh no that's harsh, he's entitled to his opinion though

evad_lhorg

ah thats nothin. sure ive already seen articles in the sun and the mirror talking about christmas and th psp and sayin how the ds will basically not be a threat. see this is why little gob****es will convince their parents to buy the psp for them.

not that the psp is bad but....ya know....

Zombrex

To me the DS is all a bit of deja vu (sp?)

Nintendo DS = Sega Saturn .... why is that Wicknight, I hear you all say .. well let me tell you

The DS is really a top of the range 2D games platform with some limited 3D capabilities thrown in to make it at least appear Next-Gen ... just like the Saturn was.

The majority of games seem to be 2D, and apart from the touch screen (which I think is a bit of a gimmick) the system doesn't seem much more than a GBA with a bit extra.

Compared to the processing power and 3D power of the PSP it is a calculator, and just like the Sega Saturn eventually lost out to the original Playstation, I can easily see the DS going the same way for the same reasons, its limited power and Sony's marketting.

Of course with Nintendo you can never write off the quality of the games, and while I suspect the DS will not perform that well when head to head with the PSP, I don't think it is going to be another N-Gage because, as with the N64 at least the games themselves are probably going to be top quality even if the system isn't that sucessful.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Smellyirishman

Bad article. Not being a fanboi, but it was a bad article. Everyone knows what warioware is about, it's not the graphics, it's not the length of single player, it's the sheer blast of immense fun in under 10seconds.

I don't mind people not liking the DS, each to his owns, but this article was a bad one.

Retr0gamer

Wicknight wrote:

Nintendo DS = Sega Saturn .... why is that Wicknight, I hear you all say .. well let me tell you

The DS is really a top of the range 2D games platform with some limited 3D capabilities thrown in to make it at least appear Next-Gen ... just like the Saturn was.

The saturn also had some of the finest games ever created. Just because it was ignored by everyday joe bloggs doesn't mean it won't be a great console. Remember the PS2 sold out for ages and it had nothing good on it for a whole year.

But I do see what you mean. The DS might have quality games but the buying public are going to go for the flashiest gadget and that just happens to be the PSP. I don't see the DS failing. However the PSP will almost certainly topple Nintendo from the top of the handheld market.

Smellyirishman

Wicknight wrote:

at least the games themselves are probably going to be top quality

I'm sorry, but why else do you buy a handheld GAMING console?

{EDIT} Agree, 100% with Retr0

Zombrex

Smellyirishman wrote:

I'm sorry, but why else do you buy a handheld GAMING console?

{EDIT} Agree, 100% with Retr0

That is the reason why we buy consoles, for the games. It is the reason why I have a GameCube even though the GC section in HMV takes up about a tenth or less than the PS2 section. But I also have a PS2.

My point is that your average gamer will want the system with the cool new graphics and the abillity to play PlayStation 2 style games not a slightly advanced GBA with some very good, but very unflashy games. Even hard core gamers will not ignore the PSP, though they might buy a DS as well. But put the DS and the PSP head to head, like the Saturn was with the PSOne, and the PSP is going to win.

Smellyirishman

I'll put this down to mis-understanding on my part.
I don't doubt that the PSP will win this fixture. To say it is comparable to a sega saturn though :rolleyes: .

DS FOR TEH WIN!!shift+1!1 :rolleyes:

monument

See the writer's profile on the left - "My Tastes: Could be better"

Tusky

I think psp will definately and unfortunately win in the handheld department. Sony cant do any wrong in the public eye when it comes to computers

flogen

evad_lhorg wrote:

ah thats nothin. sure ive already seen articles in the sun and the mirror talking about christmas and th psp and sayin how the ds will basically not be a threat. see this is why little gob****es will convince their parents to buy the psp for them.

not that the psp is bad but....ya know....

Yeah, saw a piece in the Sun about the PSP which said it was coming out soon and its price was 230euro or something, also how it was going to be the biggest gadget since the walkman etc. etc. Obvious that the article was commissioned by Sony to get the boot in before the DS launch, just like those stupid stories over Christmas about slimline PS2s being stuck in the Suez Canal... fluff anyone?

flogen

Placebo

psp is a horse of a handheld.
My pockets are not big enough.

but despite... that, i have to admit some of ds games do look like post gba , 3d illusion. I dont see why Bomber man is still 1d, and castlevania 2d.
Retro classics maybe ? since NFS is 3D.
I see DS more of a proper hand held , but above comments and reviews like such and Nintendos DS Re-Design rumours put me on the spot and push me towards the psp.

Gonzo

i like nintendo and love my gamecube and advance sp but i have to admit the lineup of games so far for the DS is very dissapointing, i think the machine looks good but im not going to buy it untill i see some better software, i may go for a psp in the end as theres a few good games coming out for it.

Dogg Thang

Well he's judging the DS on two games alone which is quite blinkered. I actually agree with him on both Wario Ware (which I prefered the GBA version by far) and Mr.Driller (which I simply must not be getting). In fact, as I'm sure I've said here far too often, I am very disappointed with the DS releases in general but to drop a console based on two games is ridiculous.

As for Saturn comparisons? Nothing has yet shown me any similarity between the two. Yeah the Saturn had great 2D ability but the DS has yet to show that it can do any 2D visuals above the level of the GBA. Castlevania looks like it could change that as it looks to me to be PS1 standard graphics but nothing so far shows the DS to be a 2D powerhouse. And the Saturn was far better supported than the DS is.

Dogg.

Retr0gamer

I dont see why Bomber man is still 1d, and castlevania 2d.

Well Castlevania has always worked better in 2D. The N64 games were crap and the PS2 one was good but not up to castlevania standards.

The N64 was a 2D powerhouse but was only used in for a few 2D games. If the DS is more powerful than the N64 I'd say it will have no trouble with 2D.

Dogg Thang

Yep, 2D Castlevania is always excellent.

Dogg.

bugs

Retr0gamer wrote:

The N64 was a 2D powerhouse but was only used in for a few 2D games.

Errrrr, no it wasn't. It was strictly a 3d machine. It didn't have half the ram required to buffer in heavy amounts of sprites, perhaps if they actually made use of the ram upgrade, it might have made a difference but it was all too little too late.

Rew

PSP takes a bashing in a few places:

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000743034952/

Retr0gamer

Well the N64 pulled off some amazing 2D stuff with starcraft and bangai-oh. It had mire ram than the saturn (correct me if I'm wrong) and definitely more video ram. The saturn was an awesome 2D machine.

bugs

Tis fairly simple really, n64, bugger all storage space on those carts, 4 meg internal ram, which is better than the saturn (tho the saturn had a useable 4meg upgrade cart for kof and other fighting games with heavy sprite animation) but the saturns cpu was designed to throw sprites around, the n64's wasn't.
Capcom were many times rumoured to be porting one of the SF alpha games to the N64, but never did it, either the machine couldn't manage it without losing alot of frames or lack of interest, dunno.
Neither were particularily powerhouses of 2d gaming, that honor goes to a few arcade systems and the neogeo.

savemejebus

Rew wrote:

PSP takes a bashing in a few places:

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000743034952/

Why? Why did Sony insist on putting an optical drive in the PSP when it had to compromise on so many other issues? Simple, Sony wants to sell you movies and music on the UMD. They want you to buy a UMD movie for $20. That UMD movie has 1/3 the resolution of a similar priced DVD. That UMD movie can’t be played back on a TV. That UMD movie does not have additional DVD features, menus, subtitles or other cool things you may find on a DVD. Sony makes nearly 100% profit on movies and music.

my favourite bit in that article and the reason that i'm buying a ds now instead of ordering a psp

Dogg Thang

There are, however, a coupe of flaws in that reasoning - Sony could have put movies on other formats than optical disks. Anything with a decent amount of memory can hold a movie - including the memory stick used for saves. To say it only takes UMDs because of movies assumes that UMDs were the only formats they could use. They were not. In that scenario they might have also been encouraged to limit how the memory stick could be used - allowing people to use their own mp3s or encode their own movies from dvd doesn't quite work with that thinking.

I have no doubt that Sony are hoping to make a bundle off the UMDs but they would make more from dvds simply from the number of units sold. Acting as studio, publisher, distributor, music publisher they get almost 100% of the profit anyway. So I find it hard to believe that the only reason that the machine uses UMDs is for Sony to sell movies. Sony sells movies anyway and could do it on any format - just as Majesco does with the GBA carts.

Dogg.

savemejebus

I don't think it assumes that umd was the only format they could use, it just assumes it's the format the gives sony the most control.for them the problem with flash memory would be that sony wouldn't have as much control, i mean why would you buy a flash cards with movie when you could just download and rip your own. Umd isn't a common format like DVD so you won't have people burning their own.

Dogg Thang

Exactly, people can't rip UMDs but you're almost proving my point here - how are Sony going to sell a lot of UMD movies when those same movies can be ripped from dvd and popped straight onto the Memory Stick with no hassle at all? They are controlling UMDs and yet have made a system that is designed to play movies straight from the Memory Stick which people can transfer from any home computer.

That doesn't fit with the logic of dooming their system to a short battery life for no other reason than to sell movies. I'm not saying that they don't hope to make money from UMD movies (though at that price I sincerely doubt how many they'll sell), but it doesn't seem like that was their primary goal.

Dogg.

1huge1

Having imported my ds from america almost 2 months ago i can honestly say it was well worth it

savemejebus

i agree with your point but somethng that is often forgotten here on boards is that we're not exactly the "typical" consumer that sony would target. most people on boards are very tech savvy but we are only a tiny minority of sony's target customer range. How many of us would buy a full price dvd in hmv if we could get it cheaper online? not too many i'd bet however there are lots of people who will either because they don't realise they can get discounts or because they can't be bothered waiting 5 or 6 days for a dvd.

I think the same people will buy umds rather than spending loads of time ripping films, encoding and sticking them on a memory stick. Thats only my opinion though.

In any case if UMD movie sales aren't a big factor in the decision to go optical (at a time when flash memory is v. cheap and improving) i do wonder why sony decided to use the optical disks?

Dogg Thang

No idea. Price would have been a factor. I'm sure they are far cheaper to produce than carts. They aren't all that practical - unlike the nice DS cart, you can't just chuck a few in your pocket as you go out the door because they are bigger and exposed to scratches. As Sony love their eye candy and use it as a selling point you can be sure they's want loads of FMV which could be done on other formats but, again, would be cheaper on disks. Who knows...

Dogg.

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

Dogg Thang wrote:

As Sony love their eye candy and use it as a selling point you can be sure they's want loads of FMV which could be done on other formats but, again, would be cheaper on disks. Who knows...

Dogg.

YEP gotta agree. But another reason would be that kids (I am presuming that they are a main chunck of the target audiancd) are pre-occupied with what is hip, new and cool, game cartridges have been around since the dawn of time as far as these lot are concerned.
The new tiny disk is exactly like the kinda thing we see in futuristic movies and the likes, imagine how cool the kids with UMD's first will feel, let alone be to their friends, and we all know that parents can only put up with so much nagging before they cave!!

flogen

savemejebus wrote:

I don't think it assumes that umd was the only format they could use, it just assumes it's the format the gives sony the most control.for them the problem with flash memory would be that sony wouldn't have as much control, i mean why would you buy a flash cards with movie when you could just download and rip your own. Umd isn't a common format like DVD so you won't have people burning their own.

Havent Sony said they plan to market UMD technology to other companies and use it outside the PSP (for movies, not games)?
If so I don't see them holding onto the format for long as UMD-RW's will be available shortly after UMD players start to sell. Saying that I imagine the UMD will be far from successful for a number of reasons (mainly that portable DVD players are becoming cheaper and more compact which allows people to enjoy everything a DVD has to offer without having to buy into a whole new format that is in many ways inferior)

flogen

Zhane

1huge1 wrote:

Having imported my ds from america almost 2 months ago i can honestly say it was well worth it

I think the exact opposite, im gutted that i spent my money on a glorified GBA. But my PSP on the other hand is my new best friend, i use it in the car or just around the house, games are good too and before anyone starts, im not a fanboy, i like all consoles that have good games and the DS does not have any that suit me, and none of the future releases look interesting either.

Gizzard

Probelm with the DS atm is the game line up is not as good as it should be, where is zelda and metariod?, if gta is good on the psp and they drasticly reduce the price of UMD movies it will beat DS in my opinion, also Nintendo should get creative with the touch screen it does not add much to the games at the moment.

I have a psp and have seen the ds and there is no comparison between the two GFX, however I would buy the DS if it has the killer games for it.

Battery life is a problem for the PSP btw, that the only area the DS beats PSP hands down

Gizzard

flogen wrote:

Havent Sony said they plan to market UMD technology to other companies and use it outside the PSP (for movies, not games)?
If so I don't see them holding onto the format for long as UMD-RW's will be available shortly after UMD players start to sell. Saying that I imagine the UMD will be far from successful for a number of reasons (mainly that portable DVD players are becoming cheaper and more compact which allows people to enjoy everything a DVD has to offer without having to buy into a whole new format that is in many ways inferior)

flogen

also the UMD eats battery which is at a premium on the PSP, and theyre insanely expensive, no the best alternative is 1gig+ memory stick which are dropping in price all the time, also hopefully sony or someone else will release a better battery for use with the psp

dearg_doom

Gizzard wrote:

also the UMD eats battery which is at a premium on the PSP, and theyre insanely expensive, no the best alternative is 1gig+ memory stick which are dropping in price all the time, also hopefully sony or someone else will release a better battery for use with the psp

You can get an extra battery for about 30quid.

UMD's are used because, like all optical media they are a lot cheaper per MB than flash memory.

dearg_doom

Anyway, all these arguments about the PSP will 'win' or whatever mean feck all!

Nintendo admit, and I beleive are damn proud, that the DS was the fastest designed console ever, going from concept to sales in less than 18months!

And every DS is sold at PROFIT, whereas the PSP loses approx $100 for each sale!

The DS was a kneejerk dreamed up because Nintendo were probably genuinely shocked at the PSP's surprise announcement at E3 '03 and had no plans for a GBA2 (GBFuture??) yet.

But it all seemed to work out for them, the DS is a good console with a 'unique' selling point, even if it isn't to everyone's taste.




[I'm still getting a PSP 'cos I'm poor and want to play Lumines/Wipeout/ProEvo )]

steviec

Surely UMDs make perfect sense whatever way you look at it. DS games come on 128MB carts, PSP games come on 1.8GB discs. Quite a huge difference there, and one thats needed for games as much as movies. Yes they *could* have come up with 1GB memory cards... but I'm not sure how happy consumers would be to pay 100 quid for a game to cover the price of the format.

Jazzy

In fairness, the people who designed the DS were not idiots like the PSP designers.

FACT - the PSP is sub-standard to wat it should be
the reason for this is look at the amount of problems with the basic design of the console. A square button which locks up because of the size of the screen. sony knew about this but decided to go with it neway cos the screen size was "cool", ("f**k praticallity image is more importent", one of the sony CEO's probably said).

There has also been problems with the disks firing out the bottom of the device because of faults, considering it took sony a good time to get it right (it was conceived, planned and produced in about 2 1/2 - 3 years) and nintendo took about 1 - 1 1/2 years on the DS you would think these problems shouldnt be there.

Then there is the battery life, apparantly 3 hours of playing ridge racers is enough for the poor batterys. yeah its got cool graphics and is more powerful etc. than the DS but the games look below par (except ridge racers).

Problem is ppl will buy it in spades anyway because of that Playstation tag although because again of sony f-ing up the whole thing it undersold in Japan compared to the DS at xmas time, they didnt produce enough and had all sorts of teething problems. anyway because playstations are most successfull in Ireland (I read somewhere it has a 85% market share here), expect PSPs to become the new iPod here.

I'll be happy to get a DS though, and when the batterys run out on the PSP, ill still be playing Advance Wars DS

Dogg Thang

Unfortunately most PSP owners here can't back up your "FACTs". I've not had one button lock-up (anyone here had that happen?). I have not heard of one case of the disks firing out except for that one video which looks quite deliberate (anyone here had that happen?). I get double that time playing RR on my PSP (anyone here only getting 3 hours on RR?). Before you use the word FACT, you may want to check some of them.

On the flip side of that, Dearg Doom, yep you can buy an extra battery but I really think that is something you shouldn't have to do. But then I also balked at the idea of having to buy several memory cards when the PS1 came out.

Dogg.

koneko

Indeedy, "facts".

5 1/2 hours or so playing RR
No buttons stuck (it was a little squeaky at first but doesn't do that anymore)
No UMDs ejecting

I didn't buy it because of the Sony name. I don't even like Sony in the slightest, and I don't even own my own PS2.

This one is for all the people who spout "facts" they rehash from 4 month old posts from DS-fanboys.

This whole "versus" thing is getting so old. Play it, don't play it, whatever. Joining one camp and fighting the other over which is better is so pointless.

savemejebus

if we get advance wars in a timely fashion that is.

I have absolutely nothing personal against the psp, i think it's a fantastic concept for a portable device and i have to say I don't think the designers were idiots.

The only problem i'd have with it is that it could probably have been done better if sonys corporate dogma hadn't been let loose on it. But hey thats only my opinion.

Changing subject a bit, how much space does the average psp game take up? is it the full 1.8gb (cos i know many xbox games use under 2 and in some cases even 1 gig)

hal9000

wow my fanboy senses are tingling! I think its very unfair to call the psp a sub-standard product it packs alot of power and functionality for its size and price (not irish price though ) granted it guzzles down the juice like an SUV but Li-ion battery technology hasnt advanced like computers. Theres bound to be some problems with the first generation of them, also most consoles have had teething problems at launch. The spitting out of the umd's seems to be very rare (0.4% it think) and also noted that a dangerous amount of twisting force is required to do it. The square button is a valid point no doubt. But sub-standard product i think not (and no im not a sony fanboy never had a playstation, hell i dont think i have any sony products)

Jazzy

You do know there was roughly 10,000 complaints in japan about the square button?? and that Sony actually admitted the problem and knew about it??

that aint good design.
who wants to play Gran Turisimo on the bus neway??

steviec

The square button on my PSP does feel different from the other buttons I have to say, it doesnt feel quite how i want it to feel but at the same time I've used it extensively in games and it does work perfectly when you press it, I don't know if this is what the sticky square button problem was in Japan or if it was something more serious, if I lived in Japan I'd consider bringing it back for repair(a friend has a PSP and his square button is perfect so I know mine isn't normal) but as it is I'd rather keep it as it is than go to that hassle, it still works, and just because it feels less comfortable than the other (perfect) PSP buttons, doesnt mean its not a lot more comfortable than other joypads I've used.

Even with that I'm still delighted with the PSP, battery life is great, I haven't yet been in a position where it became an issue, the unit feels wonderful, the analog is great, the buttons are great(even the square still feels grand), the games I've got(ridge racers and lumines) are great, theres a number of releases I'm looking forward to in the near future, the audio-visual quality is stunning, it is an astonishingly good machine.

My DS on the other hand, it's best game is Mario 64, which is just a cover of a generation old game(albeit a good one) that just highlights the sore need for an analog stick. The only game on DS I really really like is Warioware, if there's more games that make good use of the console like that does it'd be good but there's just not that many of interest on the horizon.

Jazzy

yeah, i dont see why Ninty didnt put in an analogue stick on the DS....
considering that the N64 pad was considered very revolutionary because of its analogue stick, and that Mario 64 was the best game for it.....??

sound_wave

why need an analogue stick when you have the touch pad? In my opinion the touch pad gives greater control over an analogue stick!

Retr0gamer

Well the analogue nub on the PSP isn't actually analogue. Still it is nicer than a d-pad for racing games.

Winters

Tbh, I'd rather play games in 3D then 2D.

Also, the PSP is more then just a games console really, it is a protable media player more then anything.

Retr0gamer

Winters wrote:

Tbh, I'd rather play games in 3D then 2D.

That comment is the videogaming form of racism

Gizzard

I have not noticed any issue with any of the buttons, and I dont know how anyone who has actually used a psp coulds say its badly designed, all i ever get is wows from people who see the screen and the layout

Ciaran500

Retr0gamer wrote:

Well the analogue nub on the PSP isn't actually analogue.

Yes it is.

Jazzy wrote:

You do know there was roughly 10,000 complaints in japan about the square button?? and that Sony actually admitted the problem and knew about it??

The PSP sold nearly 1,000,000 units and out of that there were 10,000 complaints (not faulty machines, just complaints) Thats not a bad record.

Sony did not admit the problem. They admitted to made the button like that to keep the size down.

And for the record I have never had a problem with my square button.