USI nominations

PaulMul

Was anyone at the SU council yesterday? There was a motion on USI nominations in, which fell, due to intelligent and informed use of procedure.

Do you think that if two Trinity students are running for the same USI position (poss. the only two in the whole country running for that job), that all of Trinity's 20 votes should go to the one candidate?

This year the Exec is choosing to whom all of Trinity's 20 votes will go to and I believe that even though two candidates from Trinity are running for the same USI position, Exec is set to give all of Trinity's votes to the one candidate, who is a member of Exec.

I cannot say that I know either candidate too well, but I've seen what they are capable of and believe that either one would do a tremenduous job in the USI.
But to force all of Trinitys delegates to vote for one candidate is unfair and seems undemocratic and also seems at odd with the very high standards of inclusiveness we have witnessed in the SU this year.

For all our talk of bottom up control of the SU, its still a case of jobs for the boys.

xeduCat

PaulMul wrote:

This year the Exec is choosing to whom all of Trinity's 20 votes will go to and I believe that even though two candidates from Trinity are running for the same USI position, Exec is set to give all of Trinity's votes to the one candidate, who is a member of Exec.

You believe wrong. Exec has not discussed this matter - not once. So what gives you such a belief? Did you just make it up? How can you report something that hasn't happened? As the secretary of the Executive it's news to me, and I should really know what's going on around me as I take the minutes...

For all our talk of bottom up control of the SU, its still a case of jobs for the boys.

Prove it or edit it out. That's an outright lie as far as I'm concerned. No decisions have been made - by anyone. So do you have some special info that you want to share?

(btw I enjoy this board because of the relative absence of the boring side of SU politics, so mods, feel free to lock this)

DrIndy

Whos running for what this time around?

PaulMul

EduCat wrote:

So what gives you such a belief? Did you just make it up?

The fact that it was fought against so ferousiously by many Exec members in attendance.
Boring, I find this rather compelling actully.

xeduCat

Yeah, but you can't go around saying that 'Exec has decided', if Exec hasn't met! You can't read people's minds - you have to give them credit as independent people who have their own views, and unless you've polled all 21 individually as to what's going to be said at the next meeting, it's pure speculation and extrapolation....

I mean this quite sincerely. I've learned thru past experience that taking for granted that everyone thinks the same way is the last stage before you crash and burn

As for interest v boredom - maybe a matter of perspective. For me - harassing lecturers, dealing with appeals, negotiating with the printing company, writing policy ideas - that's interesting. Bear in mind that there are more than a few people out there (tcd boards.ie regulars included) who are pretty steadfast in thinking that the SU is a heap of ****e - although they tolerate me from time to time :P

PaulMul

Alright, just had to get it out, y'know, stand behind one's etc.s!
You see whenever I have to do an essay, I suddenly get very interested in everything non-post war German drama related.
Actually, did anyone see Der Besuch der alten Dame in the Players Theatre last week. It was top-notch.

Kevin_rc_ie

few quick questions for educat.

why do u want to be usi education type person type thing.
why was it impossible to reprint 5000 education polling ballots for the last election?
when are postgrad su elections?
what would happen if 7000 people wanted to vote?

xeduCat

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

few quick questions for educat.

why do u want to be usi education type person type thing.

Interesting job...big challenge. USI is hardly in the best state ever. But in terms of changing approach to teaching, education, access etc - there is a limit to what you can do in one college (especially one as old-fashioned as Trinity). Plus, I enjoy my current thing and (if voted in) would like to think that I'd at least put the same effort into working nationally. Sorry, hard to answer a question like that without sounding like a speech!

why was it impossible to reprint 5000 education polling ballots for the last election?

Time, mainly. Our ballot papers were sent off for during the week of 7/2 and delivered on 14/2. We started polling on 15/2 in affiliate colleges. Candidate was disqualified on 22/2 - after polling in teachers, Trinity Hall and Tallaght, and polling taking place that day in James's, Hamilton and Arts. Realistically a reprint wouldn't have been guaranteed until Thursday, which would mean Wednesday's voting (D'Olier St, Hamilton Arts) would also use the 'old' paper. That would be very confusing and inconsistent, so we went with the existing paper.

Also there's a cost involved, although I'm not sure how much.

when are postgrad su elections?

This year in May, I think. although of course postgrads can (and did) vote in general SU elections.

what would happen if 7000 people wanted to vote?

1) I praise all higher beings for high turnout
2) We investigate ballot fraud
3) We start photocopying like crazy, I would guess. It's never happened before so there's no system to go by. There are only about 8,000 or so full-time undergrads in Trinity (postgrads and part-time/1-year/evening students, while they make a hell of a lot of use of some SU services, have very very low turnout) so it's fairly hypothetical.

Used ballot papers are recycled - unused are used for Council votes etc (we just use the back of them) and as scribble paper in the office.

What a strange set of post-midnight questions!

Kevin_rc_ie

so why didnt u round up 50 first years, give them all a black marker and tell them to start scribbling her name out?

thanks for replying.

xeduCat

It's not that it didn't cross my mind (actually I was thinking more along the lines of younger brothers ;-) )! Given how crazy election week is though (this year in particular - double the polling hours), not to mention hustings, and normal Educat work (people don't stop having problems during an election, and I got stuck in a 3 hour committee meeting on Tuesday afternoon), it was purely the most practical answer to put up signs at the polling booths saying that X was disqualified (9 signs per polling box, slightly OTT but there you go).

For first years who want easy paid work, though, can I recommend Dept. of Psychology projects? I made a few pound from them back in the day...

Kevin_rc_ie

Yeah that's what Myth was telling me but I wanted to hear your spin on it. I think it was also covered in the UR. sorry for probably making ur self repeat urself for the 34th time.

xeduCat

pfeh! i don't mind. you employ me, remember?

Kevin_rc_ie

Are you able to be the same officer two years in a row? For example SU president for two years? Has anyone ever done this?

Why is there so little student involvement in DUCAC admin?

Why don't all doors exiting campus have out swipe access 24-7?

Edit I hope you get over time (AS IF).

xeduCat

OK these might be my last answers before going to bed.....plus I see John2 logged in and if he sees me saying that I'm employed by him, he'll ask me to install a feedback loop in my office and play cowbell through it.

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Are you able to be the same officer two years in a row? For example SU president for two years? Has anyone ever done this?

No restriction on it - however the last time it happened that I know of was Dec Forde (Ents, late 90s). However just for the record I had no intention of doing this! I have to say that by the time a local SU officer finishes a second term, it's been a long time since they've actually 'been' a student and end up pretty remote (national's a different story as most people do a year in an SU first, with some exceptions)

Why is there so little student involvement in DUCAC admin?

Not for me to say, DUCAC and the SU are sort of 'equal' in college terms so if they don't tell me how to do my job I won't tell them. However I will say that I disagree with any student organisation having that much non-student involvement on their top committee. Why or how this happens is up to them, though.

Why don't all doors exiting campus have out swipe access 24-7?

current policy is that campus is closed midnight-6am. Therefore officially the entry/exit point is Front Gate, and if you're entering, you are checked for ID/key (in theory). If there was swipe out at various points then it would be easy to hold a door open (for example) - and the Trinity view is that anyone entering after 12pm should be a) a resident or b) signed in by a resident in advance. (And yes I know about the Maths door and all the other unofficial ways to get in, but whatever).

That's more Luke's expertise though...campus security is his baby.

foxybrowne

Overtime for EduCat!

Kevin_rc_ie

campus security is his baby.

ugly baby.

foxybrowne

wha?

John

EduCat wrote:

OK these might be my last answers before going to bed.....plus I see John2 logged in and if he sees me saying that I'm employed by him, he'll ask me to install a feedback loop in my office and play cowbell through it.

That's a silly idea. It wouldn't be loud enough. You need a full PA system plugged into a radio set to pick up those weird noises when you tune to the highest frequency on the FM band.

Selket

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Why is there so little student involvement in DUCAC admin?

I think that you may be mixing up the Dept of sport and DUCAC. There is no student representitive in the Dept of Sport (unless one the Sabbats ) However, DUDCAC has a large student involvment. Its exec has 7 (could be 8 now) student reps elected at the AGM. The Hon Sec is a student, captains meet twice a year with DUCAC to discuss issues

aodh_rua

Selket wrote:

The Hon Sec is a student, captains meet twice a year with DUCAC to discuss issues

Wow - a student on the committee and a meeting twice a year with the actual clubs. I Whatever people might say about student money disappearing into the SU, 'official' DUCAC seems a long way from average Joe Trinners.

Selket

aodh_rua wrote:

Wow - a student on the committee and a meeting twice a year with the actual clubs. I Whatever people might say about student money disappearing into the SU, 'official' DUCAC seems a long way from average Joe Trinners.

I'm afraid you misinterpreted what I said. The Hon Sec is one of the three main people of DUCAC. The exec (which consists of 7/8 students) meet frequently. Then, there are also the captain's meetings.

Added to this, most clubs are in the DUCAC office at least once a week, either to claim expenses, organise trips, hire referees etc. If there are any pressing issues, they are immediately brought to our attention. Also, do not underestimate the power of an email or a quick phone call.

Kevin_rc_ie

I'm familar with that student comm.

They meet every so often and Trever West tells them whats going on and they nod their heads. They have zero political power and about 5% influence. DUCAC is a shambles in my opinion.

aodh_rua

OK - so I laid it on a bit thick. Seriously though, it is an organisation where the student reps really don't have too much of a say and it's run by the 'grown-ups', while at the same time taking a very big share of the students' capitation fee. I'm not sure, but I think its the only captitated body whose membership is open to non-students (not just graduates and staff, but people with no connection whatsoever). At best it is a benign dictatorship where one or two stalwarts know the ropes and so no-one is willing to take them on for control - not unlike at least one of the other bodies.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

aodh_rua wrote:

Seriously though, it is an organisation where the student reps really don't have too much of a say and it's run by the 'grown-ups', while at the same time taking a very big share of the students' capitation fee.

Why are they allowed do that (i.e. have non student members)?

Wow these boards are very hackish lately! Can't we all just get along...

Crash

Its the SU boards / boards.ie cross posting - kinda getting a bit irritating

Nietzschean

Where to start o where to start ......

EduCat wrote:

(And yes I know about the Maths door and all the other unofficial ways to get in, but whatever).

There never was access via any maths door on westland row for ug's, there are 2 staff doors but both require a key. The door in question is women studies, and this has been more or less removed now as an access method.

Nietzschean

Kev wrote:

They meet every so often and Trever West tells them whats going on and they nod their heads. They have zero political power and about 5% influence. DUCAC is a shambles in my opinion.

All this moaning about DUCAC, i didn't see anyone at all at the AGM oppose West. From what i can tell being involved with a few clubs none of them have any major issues with ducac(well the ones i'm involved with anyway) , all seem to have a good rapore. The body is responsible to the students, if anyone else here actually attended the AGM we were presented with some lovely powerpoint sildes and the ability to run against anyone on the board and to vote and so on. So really imo this moaning is completely unjustified, they might be grown up's but they do their job well.

D&#243 wrote: »

Wow these boards are very hackish lately! Can't we all just get along...

Where would the fun in that be?

xeduCat

Darth Bobo wrote:

There never was access via any maths door on westland row for ug's, there are 2 staff doors but both require a key. The door in question is women studies, and this has been more or less removed now as an access method.

Oh I know...a law student was never going to get access to any of them ;-)

various groups of eng/sci undergrads, though, have claimed at various stages to have gained access through some form of deception/confidence, and I take that at face value :P

never been an issue for me as I've lived on campus for most of my time and thus can just walk up to the front gate!

Nietzschean

EduCat wrote:

Oh I know...a law student was never going to get access to any of them ;-)

various groups of eng/sci undergrads, though, have claimed at various stages to have gained access through some form of deception/confidence, and I take that at face value :P

never been an issue for me as I've lived on campus for most of my time and thus can just walk up to the front gate!

Its more that the engineering/sci students have been a bit slow off the mark to notice that they arn't in the maths dept when they walk through that door, though they exit to the hamilton via the maths dept, or did or whatever..

its not an issue for me either, though for different reasons

xeduCat

Darth Bobo wrote:

its not an issue for me either, though for different reasons

The pleasant privileges of postgraduate study?

Agent Smith

EduCat wrote:

For first years who want easy paid work, though, can I recommend Dept. of Psychology projects? I made a few pound from them back in the day...

i did one of those, never again, she made me spit into a test tube and then rambled on about the freedom of infomation act, and if i didnt sign the disclaimer, i wasnt getting my 10 euro




( your god damm right i got my ten euro.....)

Nietzschean

EduCat wrote:

The pleasant privileges of postgraduate study?

i'm afriad i'm still an ug

crash_000

crash_000 wrote:

Its the SU boards / boards.ie cross posting - kinda getting a bit irritating

I just like coming on here and posting random stuff, not hack based stuff (with a few exceptions - posting about a council which I thought some people might want to know about being one). I flick through tcdsu.org as much as I flick through boards.ie, so yeah the doubling up of posts gets annoying - especially when some accusations are made about posts being deleted! Bah.

Kevin_rc_ie

All this moaning about DUCAC, i didn't see anyone at all at the AGM oppose West. From what i can tell being involved with a few clubs none of them have any major issues with ducac(well the ones i'm involved with anyway) , all seem to have a good rapore. The body is responsible to the students, if anyone else here actually attended the AGM we were presented with some lovely powerpoint sildes and the ability to run against anyone on the board and to vote and so on. So really imo this moaning is completely unjustified, they might be grown up's but they do their job well.

ur just west's little bi*ch and we all know it.

and he is right i've never been to a meeting or spoken directly with tw. however tru my experience, they do not do their job tremendously well.

Nietzschean

Kev wrote:

ur just west's little bi*ch and we all know it.

em, I've only ever talked to Trevor a hand full of times, but he's a nice guy imo.

and he is right i've never been to a meeting or spoken directly with tw. however tru my experience, they do not do their job tremendously well.

Why don't you run against him next year then kev?

Agent Smith

can we not boycot the usi or somthing?

Nietzschean

well if we stick educat on it we could have a man on the inside, might actually do something then..

Kevin_rc_ie

run against him? unless we talking about 100m i dont think i could beat him. i have a meeting with him soon and then i'll refresh my opinion on him. and i'll also ask who he thinks his no1 bitch is.

Agent Smith

paddy cosgrave.....

Nietzschean

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

run against him? unless we talking about 100m i dont think i could beat him.

why do you think that is then? at least 90% of the people who were at the AGM were ug students from the clubs, if he was doing such a crummy job why unopposed?

and i'll also ask who he thinks his no1 bitch is.

Considering his use of computers i doubt he know's who i am if thats what you mean

Kevin_rc_ie

Do the GSU have any full time officers? Just the president? How long has this been full time if it is?

Does Educat (joe bloggs boards member) think they need more?
Does the SU Ed. Officer think they need more?

Kevin_rc_ie

such a crummy job why unopposed?

because he's a criminal mastermind

(he's not a criminal).

I would say, and i am speaking without any actual knowlegdge, that he would be one of the top political dogs within college. Also it is a crummy job no one else would want it.

xeduCat

Nominations closed today and apparently I'm unopposed - although what happens next is that they use a YES/NO ballot paper - similar to RON in normal elecdtions. So it's basically - do you want Daithí - vote Yes or No.

Which is (ever so slightly) intimidating!

Kevin_rc_ie

i want a Daithí , can i have a Daithí ?

Nietzschean

So then to recap :
Alledged : DUCAC bad because students not enough influence
Established : Students can have any level of influence they want
They are choosing to let T. West and co run it because they don't want to do it and its work.


I miss anything?

xeduCat

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Do the GSU have any full time officers? Just the president? How long has this been full time if it is?

Does Educat (joe bloggs boards member) think they need more?
Does the SU Ed. Officer think they need more?

Just Pres at the moment. GSU is less than 10 years old. Vice-Pres is part time. In my opinion that position deserves full-time salary (has very very very heavy committee load and also tutor-like role for some PG students, esp. research students who only have their supervisor to turn to), but obviously the funding for that shouldn't come at the expense of other student orgs. I believe the GSU are working to get the funding directly from Trinity (i.e. on the grounds that PG numbers are increasing and that it's in the college interest to have a strong support network for PG students) and more power to them on that...

Crash

G'wan Daithi

you still come and visit us when you're all big and USI'ish? :P

Ron DMC

crash_000 wrote:

you still come and visit us when you're all big and USI'ish? :P

yeah and we can vote to stop him from saying anything at council,

Kevin_rc_ie

Db,

I think that is a very obvious mathematical simplification that is giving an inaccurate answer. Just because he's doing a job and nobody is opposing him doesn't mean it's a good job. Fidel Castro Anyone? (I know little of politics so I hope my analogies don't go too far askrew)

I think DUCAC are very old fashioned and conservative in their views. I think their stance on financial support comes from the idea, which clubs get most exposure and which clubs are the biggest traditions. TW represents DUCAC so imagine DUCACs views are a result of his views.

Luce hall is a dumb, and DUCAC have done little to improve this. I'm not saying it's DUCAC fault such and such wasn't built, I'm saying it's their fault for not maximising what we already have.
The staff employed by Luce Hall, and I imagine intern by DUCAC, are generally, rude, stupid c*nts.

All you have to do is compare the sporting prowess of UCD and TCD and see the differences and that's conclusion enough for me.

xeduCat

Ronny Mitchell wrote:

yeah and we can vote to stop him from saying anything at council,

I won't come unless invited...and that's a promise.

(Assuming I win, of course. If I don't, you could be stuck with me as a postgrad student anyways!)