Bus Eireann driver stands against the cyclists!

Rossonero

On the bus into Cork the bus pulled up behind a group of cyclists at a red light. One of the cyclists commented to the driver about something the driver had done at the last lights.
The driver replied with;
"You fook off you fooking priick, the rules of the road are for everyone you fooking asshole!"

cajun_tiger

ok....?

bounty

i hate buses, nearly killed me so many time while cycling

they swerve in and out across the cycle lanes every stop, shjt design really

and taxis are worse, they seem to try and skim past me as close as possible

Mossy Monk

us cyclists never get a break, stick to the rules yet i get bastards beeping and every other ****ing thing even though i skimming the kerb on the footpath

*****

*applies only to thos impatient ****wits behind the wheel of a car

Boggle

Tell you what - why don't you pay road tax? Then you can earn the right to bitch about other road users...

(think I'm messn...not sure though)

ChRoMe

Or how about actually taking notice and obeying traffic lights?

Oh and while your at it. Its a good idea to wear some hi-vis gear at night otherwise its your own fault.

I am MAN

The original post left me thinking...then what?

DaBreno

Rossonero wrote:

On the bus into Cork the bus pulled up behind a group of cyclists at a red light. One of the cyclists commented to the driver about something the driver had done at the last lights.
The driver replied with;
"You fook off you fooking priick, the rules of the road are for everyone you fooking asshole!"

Top man! We should get him to drive the 25X route. there's nothing worse than getting stuck behind a cyclist, chugging away at 2 mph against the wind, while in a bus lane you cant get out of.
I often wondered if Death by Ebola would be worse and have concluded no, it isnt.

Guy:Incognito

Mossy Monk wrote:

us cyclists never get a break, stick to the rules yet i get bastards beeping and every other ****ing thing even though i skimming the kerb on the footpath

*****

*applies only to thos impatient ****wits behind the wheel of a car

At a quick estimate I reckon 5% of cyclists obey traffic lights. Imagine the same number of cars decided to disregard them. Also the ****wits in the cars pay to be on the roads.

@ the original poster: wtf?

breadmonkey

As someone new to driving, I ****ing hate cyclists, they insist on cycling in the bus lane in the howling wind, even though there is a perfectly good >>>>cycling lane <<<<< beside them. The worst part is, that if some stupid cyclist swerves out in front of me, it will be deemed my fault for accelerating and blitzing him off the mother****ing road !!!!!!

breadmonkey

bugger, my >>>cycling lane<<< didn't work out too well there

bounty

ross*k wrote:

As someone new to driving, I ****ing hate cyclists, they insist on cycling in the bus lane in the howling wind, even though there is a perfectly good >>>>cycling lane <<<<< beside them. The worst part is, that if some stupid cyclist swerves out in front of me, it will be deemed my fault for accelerating and blitzing him off the mother****ing road !!!!!!

Even tipping a cyclist with your car could kill them.

OFDM

One day recently I was walking down the road and there was this man by the side of the road waving his arms in the air shouting "I am a mushroom lover". Then he got up on a beer crate and started hoping on it with one leg. After about 30 seconds his foot broke through the crate and he stumbled, almost falling under a passing car.

Then he picked himself and pulled his now bleeding leg out of the crate, picked up the crate and limped away shouting "Fook you Charlie, you filthy bsatard".

L5

OFDM wrote:

One day recently I was walking down the road and there was this man by the side of the road waving his arms in the air shouting "I am a mushroom lover". Then he got up on a beer crate and started hoping on it with one leg. After about 30 seconds his foot broke through the crate and he stumbled, almost falling under a passing car.

Then he picked himself and pulled his now bleeding leg out of the crate, picked up the crate and limped away shouting "Fook you Charlie, you filthy bsatard".

Mossy Monk

ChRoMe wrote:

Or how about actually taking notice and obeying traffic lights?

Oh and while your at it. Its a good idea to wear some hi-vis gear at night otherwise its your own fault.

how about you stop the sweeping generalisations

bringitdown

Irish drivers accusing Irish cyclists of disobeying the rules of the road....

:eek:

Its just a mess of pots and kettles in here.

joejoem

I hate knacker cyclists, they cycle in the middle of the road and look back at you as they wobble from side to side with there stupid f ing baseball cap at 45 degrees aghhhhh I hate them so much. Send them all to wales.

Kingsize

ross k as someone new to driving you shouldn't have such an attitude?
do you have a full licence? & why are you bothered with the bus lane anyhow its not for cars its for buses & bikes,
cyclists are obliged to use cycle lanes when present, but motorists are obliged to be observant,thats a pwerful lethal weapon under your arse even if its only your mother's nissan micra.A cyclist will swerve to aviod something like a pot hole im a cyclist i lke to follow the path of least resistance,i dont go swerving around for no reason sometimes a cycle track goes from path to road to buslane & back you cant avoid weaving in & out. Personally i think cycle lanes should be raised off the road making it easier for drivers to avoid. but please remember the first rule of driving is be oservant.

Giblet

I remember driving home one day and seeing a cyclist EAT A BABY.

Another time I seen one give a heil hitler sign to his cyclist comrades across the road.

Cyclists killed Jesus.

Töpher

Giblet wrote:

I remember driving home one day and seeing a cyclist EAT A BABY.

Another time I seen one give a heil hitler sign to his cyclist comrades across the road.

Cyclists killed Jesus.

Hahaha! Good man, woke me up from laughing so much!

Merrion

When cycling, I always break red lights, ride on the pavement and weave between traffic. How else is someone who has spent 50 thousand pounds on an all terrain vehicle and is stuck in traffic because a half a centimetre of snow has fallen going to feel smug and self satisfied if not for considerate cyclists such as me?

egan007

Giblet wrote:

I remember driving home one day and seeing a cyclist EAT A BABY.

Another time I seen one give a heil hitler sign to his cyclist comrades across the road.

Cyclists killed Jesus.

Yes this is all true - i heard the same from my friends brothers girlfriend.

I cycle and drive - If more of the LAZY ASS drivers here would have a go at cycling they may see traffic from both prespectives and be in a position to comment.

OFDM

Kingsize wrote:

your mother's nissan micra..

My friend was driving a nissan micra to work one day when he came across a young calf stuck in a ditch on the side of the road. He stopped the car at the nearest gate and walked back to the calf. He tried pulling the calf out of the ditch but couldn't get the leverage to pull it out as he didn't want to ruin his work shoes. Luckily a farmer came along in a tractor, saw what was happening, stopped and said the calf belonged to a farmer he knew. He turned off the tractor engine and phoned the farmer.

About 10 minutes later the farmer who owned the calf came along and he and the other farmer pulled the calf out of the ditch. They thanked my friend for doing his best with the calf and the farmer who owned the calf gave my friend 20 euro for his efforts. My friend thanked him for his generosity and went back to his car.

When he got back to his car he noticed that the front right tire was punctured...

kenmc

I cycle and drive too. as a driver i'm extremly observant of cyclists and give them loads of room when overtaking and always make sure that there's none up the inside of me when turning left. Also I lived in Holland for 18 months and got used to how cars SHOULD behave around cyclists.
As a cyclist I make sure to take care of myself from all the other ba$tards out there in cars who are - lets face it - trying to kill me - thats the attitude you have to have - each and every single car driver out there has the pontential to kill me. I cycle far enough out from the kerb so that drivers have to wait for a decent break in traffic to do a proper over take rather than try to squeeze by, cos it'll always be me who comes out worst in a squeeze. And yes, if there is red lights and there is definitely nothing coming the other way I will go through them - the logic being how is it any different than me jumping off the bike, running across the road and back on the bike - cept it's faster than dismounting and running. I use cycle lanes when it is safe to do so. i.e. when they don't go up and down across junctions too much. Too many times I've been on a bike lane and a car has come up the road and turned left straight across me as if I was never there in the first place. at least by being on the road this happens less.
I have an airhorn on my bike too, so cars can get a blast of it if they do something stupid. likewise people walking on the bike lane. they get a blast and a yell. there's a perfectly good path for them to walk on, so fu(k off out of the bike lane. Cars parked on the bike lane pi$$ me off no end. am thinking of saving rotten eggs for these. have been known to accidentally bump a wingmirror as I squeeze through the gap too.
And don't go on about "pay road tax" - cos I do, and more often than not the car sits at home during the commute, thus making your road tax cheaper.

OFDM

kenmc wrote:

have been known to accidentally bump a wingmirror as I squeeze through the gap too.

That makes you a muppet - there's no excuse for damaging other people's property...

kenmc

never damaged it. they fold in. and i said *accidentally* - I don't go around doing it on purpose, but i'm sure as fu(k not going to put myself out and maybe get killed to avoid some ignorant ba$tards bloody wing mirror.

case_sensitive

Yeah, I cycle absolutely everywhere, to and from work, college, the gym, even the pub (wait hours for a taxi at 3am? no way, home and chilling in about 12-15 mins), and I've been doing so for more than 15 years.
Like most experienced cyclists, I weave through traffic, if you're aware of all the cars around you, and how big gaps are going to be when you get to them, then you're fine. The problem many people have with cyclists, is BAD cyclists. As there are bad drivers, a dotty old guy who hasn't ridden in 10 years is going to be every bit as dangerous to himself and pedestrians as a drunk driver. And yes, some do take up half the road, but that's because they're *bad cyclists*, anyone who knows what they're doing will make way for overtaking traffic. My problems are people who drive so far into the bike lane that you can't get through, (I've been known to knock on windows for this too, and can't say I'd *never* adjust a wingmirror), and twats who park in it, for which they deserve a kicked in light. I beg to differ on OFDM's assertion that there's no reason to damage other people's property though..
I've only once every damaged a car, but he totally deserved it. I was turning left down to Mountjoy (beside canal) which is a very sharp, very narrow turn, when a BMW burns around Whitworth road, and tries to take the corner at 40mph, *over* the curb, completely ignoring me, and almsopt crushing my bike and my legs into paste. He ignored me completely as he milled off down the road, screaming at him to be more considerate (not in those exact words :-). Anyway, caught up with him at the speedbumps and made good use of the U-lock. The prick had heard me shouting at me, wound up his window, and was going to speed off without even apologising.

Bunny-boiler rant over, I promise, the point is that he was an inconsiderate driver, and likewise, there are inconsiderate cyclists. I've been nearly killed by drivers who can't look in mirrors, taxis who brake right in the middle of the road to pick up a fare, lorry drivers throwing open their doors (right at head height too, perfect for decapitations) when parked in the cycle lane, but cycling is still far and away the best way to get around Dublin at the moment.

Calibos

Can someone explain to cyclists that the law that says to use the cycle lane if one is available doesn't mean using the available cycle lane on the other side of the road and thus riding against oncoming traffic. Cycle lanes in Bray are a joke with just the side of the road painted red leaving enough space to the centre white line for a nissan micra. I think it was basically just so the council could get some EU grant. So I bear no grudge against cyclists for slowing me up in Bray and am very careful and mindful around them..... But there are a few roads in Bray with only a painted cycle lane on one side of the road and cyclists are using it against the flow of traffic and other cyclists coming in the opposite direction. Morons!! (them in particular, not cyclists in general)

Seraphina

ChRoMe wrote:

Oh and while your at it. Its a good idea to wear some hi-vis gear at night otherwise its your own fault.

not always, alot of ****wit drivers dont even bother to look.
i was cycling to a mates house one night on a very well lit road, and i was wearing one of those bright reflective vests too. suddenly, the car in front of me swerved quickly and start doing a 3 point turn. of course i pulled my brakes really hard, but he was pretty close and i nearly hit him. he looked at me with surprise, then frowned and shouted, "you know its very hard to see you". the he ****ed off.

no ****ing indicators, didn't even brake before swerving, i wanted to shout at him that i wasn't bloody well hard to see, he just wasn't ****ing looking.
car drivers need to pay more attention to the road and not expect big flashing warnings that there are other road users around, and that they're not always cars.

kenmc

similar thing happened to me cycling out of work one day. a car pulled out from the left right in front of me, and only for the fact that I could scoot down the wrong side of a traffic island i'd surely have come off. So i cycled after the fu(ker and started banging on his window and when he opened it up and i yelled at him he says "i didn't see you"..... no fcking sh|t sherlock! And me with headlight and bright yellow dayglow jacket on... any brighter and he'd have needed shades! muppet.

StupidLikeAFox

I once knew a guy who cycled to work once, and ten years later, BAM.....herpes

kenmc

ColHol wrote:

I once knew a guy who cycled to work once, and ten years later, BAM.....herpes

must've been riding the office bike. badoom tsch!

Victor

ChRoMe wrote:

Oh and while your at it. Its a good idea to wear some hi-vis gear at night otherwise its your own fault.

How about?

All cars should be lemon / canary yellow.

All cars should have **two** working headlights.

Indicators are used before turning, not when illegally parked.

If you have a 4WD vehicle, you should know how to use the 4WD.

If this is gonna turn into a thread of motorists giving out about cyclists i think it's only fair for opinions of both pedestrians and cyclists of motorists to be heard too.
1 - As a cyclist i expect that all motorists should know how to use their indicators, just in the same way they we must indicate every turn, i have almost been seriously injured many times by idiot drivers turning left with no indicators on.
2 - The Road tax issue, what is road tax? it is tax that is used in the upkeep of roads, the average bicycle and cyclist weigh less than an american and cause no damage to roads, that is why we don't pay road tax.
3 - For those drivers who roll along too close to the kerb, think of this, what would you do if a skip was parked in the middle of the road, and you couldn't get by it, you couldn't move it, this is almost exactly what we have to deal with, the only option we have is to go onto the path, which is illegal!

There are far many more complaints that cyclists can lodge against bad drivers than drivers can lodge against poor cyclists!

Stephen

Its not like the motorist can get a registration number or something off a bicycle to use when lodging said complaint is it?
So what can you do short of demanding the guy's name and address? I don't see most people going that far to complain about some wanker who believes traffic lights don't apply to him.

(Before any of the all-motorists-are-inconsiderate-bastards fascists blow up at me: I see this from a few different perspectives - I cycled for years, then had a motorbike for a few years - cars are just as lethal, if not more so to motorcyclists - and now I drive a car)

Boggle

There are far many more complaints that cyclists can lodge against bad drivers than drivers can lodge against poor cyclists!

:rolleyes: In who's opinion?

I see alot of cyclists giving out about drivers but the thing is: at one stage or another a motorist is likely to HAVE to show they are capable of driving a car in town - cyclists never do.

I lived in Belgium for 3 years when I was younger and there when we were in school we were brought down to a mockup of road junctions, let cycle around it, and then thought how to act on the roads. That never happens here with the effect that alot of (supposedly) good cyclists are infact quite dangerous to themselves.

case_sensitive

Yeah, I remember that, they took us to a driving school in primary school, cycled bikes and go-karts round a track and they taught us how to indicate, turn, do round-abouts etc. And that was in Clontarf somewhere,free, something run in conjunction with Dublin Bus as far as I remember.

The go-karts were cool, no one wanted to be critiqued on their cycling, we mostly rammed into each other in our dodgems/go-karts.

pickarooney

I actually miss the rush of dodging City Imps, road-craters, NTL engineers and rogue taxis. Cycle lanes are all very well, but they're not much fun.

Ciaran_Dub

1 - I have been driving for a good number of years now and I canm remember the last time a cyclist gave a hand signal at a junction, you do realise that a cyclist should indicate if they are going straight through a junction, I have neve seen it happen.

2 - Road tax is paid not only for the up keep of roads but also for the privelege(SP) of actually driving on the road and use of roads. Regardless of wether or not a cyclist causes any damage to a road they still use it and should in my opinion be taxed for it

3 - Cyclists using cycle lanes joining roads need to slow down joining the road. It should be treated as a Junction like any other and that is too proceed only when it is safe to do so.

4 - Breaking lights sorry but who ever said "Whats the difference with cycling through a red light or dismounting and walking through" there is none you are still breaking the law and shouldnt do it. If you are walking through you will go through slower then cycling thus giving a driver who has the right of way more chance to take action against your idiotic move.

It might seem like I am taking the side of a motorists but I have had my fair share of run ins and arguements with idiotic drivers aswell. Fact is there is just as many idiotic cyclists as there are drivers. And there is just as many complaints to make about both parties.

The biggest issue is the lack of knowledge and rules of the roads by all parties that needs to be seriously addressed. Can anyone tell me is it not now illegal for a cyclist to use his/her bicycle without a helmet?? something else that the majority of cyclists dont do.

Also (last point I swear), the fuc*ing fool who said that he cycles home after being in the pub I hope you havent been drinking, this might sound pathic but you can just as easily get done for cycling your bike drunk as you can for drink driving. Most Gaurds dont inforce it but it is the letter of the law.

Kingsize

funnily enough i got in an argurument with a driver yesterday, i gave a hand signal i was going straight she thought i was turning left i gave a very clear "going straight ahead" hand signal with my right hand -she didnt know what it meant!!
this is the only hand signal i ever use, its far too dangerous to take my hand off the handlebars for any lenghth of time given the state of some of the roads & the sh_ite that is never cleaned out of the cycle lanes especially when nobody pays any attention to them anyway.
btw i think the breaking red lights thing was in the context of pedestrian lights on a straight road as opposed to at a junction/interchange in which case its suicide to try & run a red light.
im sure road tax is actually a motor tax i.e. you pay it for the privelidge of driving a car not using the road(in the same way the tv licence is for the tv itself not for what you watch).
motorists are advised to give a cyclist as much room as a small car when does this ever happen??
Lastly & more importantly bad cyclists exist & they are an annoyance bad motorists however are a threat to life.if the gardai want to target people breaking the rules of the road they should start shooting fish in a barrel & prosecute the large amount of learner drivers/prvisional licence holders driving unnaccompanied.

Ciaran_Dub

Kingsize wrote:

....this is the only hand signal i ever use, its far too dangerous to take my hand off the handlebars for any lenghth of time given the state of some of the roads & the sh_ite that is never cleaned out of the cycle lanes especially when nobody pays any attention to them anyway.

Thats where observation comes in, the same could be said for a motorist is afraid to move their hands on the steering wheel because somebody might walk out infront of them or drive in front of them.

....btw i think the breaking red lights thing was in the context of pedestrian lights on a straight road as opposed to at a junction/interchange in which case its suicide to try & run a red light.

It doesnt actually matter what type of lights they are, a cyclist is still bound by the same rules of the road as a motorist and they shouldnt break a red light.

....im sure road tax is actually a motor tax i.e. you pay it for the priveige of driving a car not using the road(in the same way the tv licence is for the tv itself not what you watch).

I believe your right, the phrase 'Road Tax' isnt used anymore it is now 'Motor Tax'

Kingsize

1: not saying its right but i value my life more than telling any driverswho care that im slowing down etc etc i know its against the law not to signal but pot holes are a real threat to a cyclist staying upright why would a driver have to take his hands off the wheel anyway?its not really the same thing anyway you can sit in a car motionless with your hands off the wheel you cant do that on a bike ( for long)

2: I agree that at a junction its lunacy but again its different - a driver cant get off walk up on the path & walk back on the road after the lights a cyclist can & as far as i know its legal.

seamus

Ciaran_Dub wrote:

you do realise that a cyclist should indicate if they are going straight through a junction, I have neve seen it happen.

Nope. Cyclists need to indicate going straight no more than any other road users. Perhaps you're confusing the signals you should give to other roads users with the signals you should give to a Garda directing traffic?

Road tax is paid not only for the up keep of roads but also for the privelege(SP) of actually driving on the road and use of roads. Regardless of wether or not a cyclist causes any damage to a road they still use it and should in my opinion be taxed for it

Perhaps we should impose an arbitrary tax on every person in the country. After all, we all walk on the paths and cross the roads. Privilege of having the road and upkeep on the road are the same thing IMO. If you didn't pay upkeep on the road, you wouldn't have the priviledge of the road. The only ironic difference being that if nobody but cyclists used the roads, the upkeep would be minimal, and even a completely destroyed road could be passable by cyclists and pedestrians but not by any other vehicle. Environmental factors are also a big account. The bigger the engine, the bigger your road tax.
TBH, I wouldn't have a problem taxing cyclists minimally, it might teach people that a bicycle is a priviledge not a right, but in the long run it could discourage people from moving to bicycles, particularly young people, just causing more vehicular traffic.

4 - Breaking lights sorry but who ever said "Whats the difference with cycling through a red light or dismounting and walking through" there is none you are still breaking the law and shouldnt do it.

Actually, it's perfectly legal for a cyclist to dismount, get up on the path, walk past the lights and join the other road.

The biggest issue is the lack of knowledge and rules of the roads by all parties that needs to be seriously addressed. Can anyone tell me is it not now illegal for a cyclist to use his/her bicycle without a helmet?? something else that the majority of cyclists dont do.

It's not illegal to not wear a helmet. But I agree on the ROTR. We need zero tolerance on the roads in this country if/when the Traffic Corps comes to life.

kenmc

Ciaran_Dub wrote:

4 - Breaking lights sorry but who ever said "Whats the difference with cycling through a red light or dismounting and walking through" there is none you are still breaking the law and shouldnt do it. If you are walking through you will go through slower then cycling thus giving a driver who has the right of way more chance to take action against your idiotic move.

Well for one, I said it, and I quote "And yes, if there is red lights and there is definitely nothing coming the other way I will go through them - the logic being how is it any different than me jumping off the bike, running across the road and back on the bike - cept it's faster than dismounting and running. " Note the phrase "and there is definitely nothing coming the other way". I.e. if I was walking and I would cross the road at that particular instant, then I will cross the road when cycling as well. again, how is it any different to me getting off the bike and wheeling it across the road as I would when I was walking. except that I would be faster cycling through than walking across.
that said I have seen people cycling straight through busy cross roads when there was loads of cars going through against them. fcuking nutters....

SteM

Ciaran_Dub wrote:

Thats where observation comes in, the same could be said for a motorist is afraid to move their hands on the steering wheel because somebody might walk out infront of them or drive in front of them.

Drivers regularly need to takes their hands off a wheel to change gears etc. Brakes are controlled by a drivers foot where as cyclists breakes are on the stearing wheels. Potholes effect bicycles much more than cars too and that needs to be considered given the shocking state of Dublin roads at the moment. BTW, cars don't indicate if they are going straight so why do you feel that cyclists should?

A.S.H.

I am mainly a pedestrian but ocasional cyclist, and when I cycle I will sometimes signal but mainly I won't because I have to keep my eye on the road ahead and if a pothole or sudden turn is need I will fall over into the path of a car which will cause me pain and also annoy the driver and hold up the traffic, in this sense I consider myself a considerate cyclist. I wouldn't have a problem with paying a minor tax if and I strongly stress the if the roads were kept in a good condition. Bike paths when they go onto the road can be filled with holes and bumps and if someone thinks that I will risk my life to stick my hand out they can go do something rude to themselves. it is in part due tothe terrible condition of the roads and the drivers on them that I now mainly walk or use a bus.

Ciaran_Dub

seamus wrote:

Actually, it's perfectly legal for a cyclist to dismount, get up on the path, walk past the lights and join the other road.

Nobody said anything about mounting the path to walk around the lights, it was implied walk through the lights, that is still illegal, the red light has been broken.

[QUOTE=kenmc
]And yes, if there is red lights and there is definitely nothing coming the other way I will go through them - the logic being how is it any different than me jumping off the bike, running across the road and back on the bike - cept it's faster than dismounting and running. " Note the phrase "and there is definitely nothing coming the other way"[/QUOTE]

but its still illegal regardless of whether there is something coming or not. What if more motorists did what you are doing? and you will notice I say more becuase I know they do it now that is how so many of the crashes with LUAS is happening.

seamus

kenmc wrote:

again, how is it any different to me getting off the bike and wheeling it across the road as I would when I was walking. except that I would be faster cycling through than walking across.

One is illegal and one isn't. You can't choose which laws to obey because you think you know better.

By the same token, what's the difference between a car driver getting out of his car, pushing it onto the path and across the road, and just driving through the lights if there's nothing coming? The second one is faster.

The same argument can be applied to motorbikes - and it's actually legal for me to dismount my motorbike and push it onto the path. Why shouldn't I start just ignoring lights because you choose to?

Kingsize

its more serious if a motorist breaks a red light in this way a car is far more dangerous
a guard will probably give a cyclist a telling off & prosecute a driver.
the high cost of motor insurance in this country is not caused by cyclists breaking the rules it is a direct result of the injuries / damaged caused by hundreds of poor drivers currently using our roads.
try cycling or driving up oconnell street DUblin & watch the pedestrians break the lights under the watchful eye of the garda

Ciaran_Dub

Kingsize wrote:

its more serious if a motorist breaks a red light in this way a car is far more dangerous
a guard will probably give a cyclist a telling off & prosecute a driver.
the high cost of motor insurance in this country is not caused by cyclists breaking the rules it is a direct result of the injuries / damaged caused by hundreds of poor drivers currently using our roads.

Well thats pretty much implied because a cyclist doesnt have to pay insurance!!!!!

Kingsize

my point is that most accidents dont involve bicycles at all they involve motor vehicles hitting each other & in each case brought at least one person is deemed to be negligent.As far as i'm aware the majority of accidents involving cars & bikes or cars & motorbikes are caused by the motorist (car driver.)