3 "expelled" from IRA

billy the squid

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0225/sinnfein.html

three members of the IRA have been expelled. its more of a question that I have really rather than my thoughts on this, but has there ever been expulsions from the IRA before.

To be honest there was little choice in this for the IRA. the family didnt want the "body in the bog" or "padre pio" soloution from the IRA and the dogs on the street knew who did this according to the mccartney family.

does this open the possibility of disgruntled former IRA members from going to the police? does this pose a "security risk" for the IRA?

Redleslie2

Punishment beating time methinks. Drive the SF bashers mad.

mycroft

And it's only take a month for campaigning by an incredibly brave family and a community taking a step forward againist IRA intimidation.

Cork

I tought they would apologise for the actions of their members - but this is the IRA - that never says sorry.

It never advised people either to go to the Police.

Last night's statement was dragged out of the IRA.

The dogs in the street knew IRA members killed Robert McCarney.

It took the IRA weeks to respond - only after the brave campaigning by the McCartney family.

Sand

How do we know this isnt simply a public relations exercise?

Think about it. Its taken a month and tremendous pressure from the McCartney family to reach this point, a month during which the killers allegedly repeatedly visited SF HQ in Belfast as part of their normal day jobs. The killers werent expelled because SF/IRA disaproved of their actions. They were expelled because the McCartney killing was becoming a serious PR nightmare for the provos.

Whose to say they werent approached by Adams and Co and told "Listen, we need to expel you publicly because what you did is causing us some heat, but off the table we're still good mates, we wont allow anyone to sell you out to the cops"

SF/IRA have come as far as they will come with regard to encouraging people to go to the PSNI - i.e. they wont. Theyre tackling the PR nightmare by publicly expelling the killers. The killers wont be given to the PSNI - one of them is a very senior Republican and if hes betrayed to them, whose to say what he'll say?

Everyones a winner! Killers get off, SF/IRA save their hides, and justice ( in the form of the killers being expelled) is served! Well, yeah the McCartneys might still wimper about justice but theyre traitors trying to embarrass the Provos anyway. The only loose end is Devine, and without any other witnessess brave enough to come forward its hearsay, and with a few threats to Devines family and the new view in the community that the IRA have "dealt" with the killers theres a good chance hell think twice.

mike65

Make of this what you will

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/26/uira.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/02/26/ixportaltop.html

Gerry Adams has put further pressure on republicans involved in the events surrounding the death of Robert McCartney by saying he would testify in court if he had been a witness.

Three members of the IRA were expelled from the organisation yesterday following the murder of Mr McCartney, a Catholic father of two, on Jan 30.


Mr Adams, the Sinn Fein leader, said that had he been present during the events in McGinnis's bar in Belfast centre, he would have gone to a solicitor.

Mr Adams said that the IRA's decision to expel the three members was a positive step.

"The IRA acted, I think, on its own counsel on all of this,'' Mr Adams said.

"I think there are other issues involved but I want to make this very, very clear. Had I found myself in McGinnis's Bar and was caught up in these dreadful events, I would now be making myself available to the court as the McCartney family have asked.

"I think the situation is so serious that any self respecting republican who got caught up in all of this because of drink or because of whatever else occurred, they do have a responsibility to redeem themselves.

"They won't bring Robert McCartney back but that is what I would do if I was there.''

So there we have it Grizzly would have not gone to the police but would take the stand in a court of law. Go Figure that one.

Mike.

Capt'n Midnight

billy the squid wrote:

three members of the IRA have been expelled.

FF have also expelled people but I doubt it convinced anyone that that party instantly became squeaky clean. Irish politics is full of parties that have split most can trace thier roots back to a certain pre-independence party, but the majority have left..

joseph brand

Does anyone know why he was killed in such a brutal fashion??

I have read plenty of papers and web pages but none give a reason other than a pub fight.

mike65

FF have also expelled people but I doubt it convinced anyone that that party instantly became squeaky clean.

..and FF don't imply the expelled will be killed if they dont "do the right thing"

Mike.

joseph brand

..and FF don't imply the expelled will be killed if they dont "do the right thing"

Maybe they should.

Let's see, . . . . . I would have no hesitation in pulling the switch on Harney or Mr Martin if they were in the 'Hot Seat', leave them with dry heads just like The Green Mile.

mycroft

joseph brand wrote:

Does anyone know why he was killed in such a brutal fashion??

I have read plenty of papers and web pages but none give a reason other than a pub fight.

The reason given is, one of them made a gesture which an IRA man took ti be towards one of the women in the group with the IRA, the IRA demanded an apology there was an altercation, and the fight broke out.

Maybe it was just a bar fight, and the IRA (ooopphs former IRA) psycho's had poor impulse control.

Let's see, . . . . . I would have no hesitation in pulling the switch on Harney or Mr Martin if they were in the 'Hot Seat', leave them with dry heads just like The Green Mile.

Uh huh...bye bye now.

billy the squid

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1172519,00.html?f=dta

a man has handed himself over to the PSNI and been arested.

i guess he would have had little choice given that he was rebuked both by the community and the IRA

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

mike65 wrote:

So there we have it Grizzly would have not gone to the police but would take the stand in a court of law. Go Figure that one.

Mike.

Has SF ever been critical of IRA punishment beatings, expulsions and kangaroo courts?

FTA69

but has there ever been expulsions from the IRA before.

Scores of them, for a variety of reasons, mostly for people carrying out homers though (robbery for personal gain), of IRA weapons were used in such a robbery the consequences were usually a lot more severe.

but this is the IRA - that never says sorry.

Except for the apology to all innocent civilians that died as a result of IRA actions and the many apologies to the families of those who were wrongly accused of being informers. The IRA has made many apologies for a variety of actions Cork.

The dogs in the street knew IRA members killed Robert McCarney.

Indeed, which is why the IRA acted in the way it did and expelled the 3 men.

Does anyone know why he was killed in such a brutal fashion??

Because the people who killed him were sociopaths on a powertrip.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

Indeed, which is why the IRA acted in the way it did and expelled the 3 men.
.

It took them 3 weeks to expell these people.

It was only because of the braveness of the McCartney family & the public's revulsion with this cold blooded murder that forced the IRA to act.

SF harp on about human rights but I can't find one incidence on the net were that party has been critical of IRA punishment beatings, expulsions and kangaroo courts.

monument

This is a good sign, but totally useless if the ‘main instigator’ involved is not one the three. The Irish Times said that two of them were ‘high-ranking’, so there’s some hope the right people were included with the three. Does any one know for sure if the ‘main instigator’ was one of the three?

I’m a bit disappointed that this has taken so long, but at lease now they have gone this far.


http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/5069641?view=Eircomnet

It says one of its members, disciplined after the killing, has gone to a solicitor "to make a statement of his actions".

"The other two were advised in the strongest terms possible to come forward and to take responsibility for their actions, as the McCartney family have asked," the statement continued.

…

The IRA's statement says nothing should impede the family's search for justice. "There should be no misunderstanding of our position in that regard. Any intimidation or threats in the name of the IRA or otherwise to any person who wishes to help the McCartney family will not be tolerated."

It continues: "The internal disciplinary steps taken by the IRA are a matter for the IRA. They are not intended to be, nor should they be, seen as a substitute for the requests of the McCartney family."

...

The statement says there will be "no tolerance" of anyone who steps outside of the IRA's rules, regulations or code of conduct. "Anyone who brings the IRA into disrepute will be held accountable," it adds.

Squaletto

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

More wild allegations from the holier than thou brigade. The guy has come forward now let due process begin.

FTA69

It was only because of the braveness of the McCartney family & the public's revulsion with this cold blooded murder that forced the IRA to act.

You can speculate all you want but the fact remains that they took action against these people and as a result of it one of the murderers has handed himself up. If they had acted in 5 minutes you would still be whinging Cork.

SF harp on about human rights but I can't find one incidence on the net were that party has been critical of IRA punishment beatings, expulsions and kangaroo courts.

Wrong again, (just like you were about the subject of apologies), Sinn Féin has consistantly stated their opposition to punishment activity. The reason they are being demonised about it is because they point out the harsh reality that it will continue in the absence of a decent police service.

Zombrex

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

It is good to know that the 'RA, our real army after all, only pick the best psychos to protect us from the British :rolleyes:

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can still support the IRA in this day and age. It is a group of psychotic thugs that just want to "play army" .. it should be got rid of for good forever

Zombrex

FTA69 wrote:

Except for the apology to all innocent civilians that died as a result of IRA actions and the many apologies to the families of those who were wrongly accused of being informers. The IRA has made many apologies for a variety of actions Cork.

The 2002 IRA statement said it was not their intention to kill non-combations, but that it was a "consequence of our actions". That is bullsh*t to be honest. They should have said, "yes we set out to kill civilians because we wanted to terrorise the British people for which we are truely sorry and will not do again". But they didn't, they made the most ridiculous statement that they didn't mean to kill civilians, which is a complete lie and insult to everyone killed.

There apologies also come years after the events. I am sure the family of Bernard Teggart took a lot of comfort in the fact that 31 years after their 15 year old son (15!) was shot in the head for being an informer the IRA apologies after repeated pressure from the Teggart family.

What good are apologies if they come years after the event and don't stop the IRA from continuing to act like psychopathic thugs

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

You can speculate all you want but the fact remains that they took action against these people and as a result of it one of the murderers has handed himself up. If they had acted in 5 minutes you would still be whinging Cork.

He would, thats pure speculation FTA69? You don't know how he'd act and yet you're complaining about his speculate. It doesn't change the essential fact members of the IRA stepped forward instantly to clean up the crim scene, a few hours after the event a 19yo man arrived at the bar and demanded the security tape.

In the weeks that followed the IRA obfuscated and resisted the investigate, an arranged mob attacked the the police convoy (spare me the heavy handed response, if they'd turned up in squad car they'd have been ripped to shred, it's a self fufilling prophecy, the Police had to go in heavy handed because there would be trouble, their was trouble because the police were heavy handed)

While at the same time SF stopped short of saying talk to the police, as a grassroots campaign started.

It's speculative to assume that the IRA would have behaved in this manner no matter what. However what isn't speculative is that this is pretty much a first in the last thirty years, and we must assume that the IRA's behaviour has to be the result of the campaign by the family.

Wrong again, (just like you were about the subject of apologies), Sinn Féin has consistantly stated their opposition to punishment activity. The reason they are being demonised about it is because they point out the harsh reality that it will continue in the absence of a decent police service.

A decent police service is not happening because SF haven't joined the policing board. And spare us the good friday agreement blah blah blah, we've discovered over the past few months that SF and their colleagues have got alot to do before they can truly be commited to a peace process. Time for them to get off their arses and do it.

More wild allegations from the holier than thou brigade. The guy has come forward now let due process begin.

And and his colleagues gutted a man, and then intimidated the public in the bar to an extent that no one called an ambulance and it was a passing police car that helped the two men.

Very good smaritan imagary btw, fine community policing by the IRA

Your defense of these people is reprenhinisble.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

Sinn Féin has consistantly stated their opposition to punishment activity. The reason they are being demonised about it is because they point out the harsh reality that it will continue in the absence of a decent police service.

Can you point to one incidence where SF have critised their buddies in the IRA for punishment beatings?

FTA69, If their opposition to punishment beatings is so consistant - can you provide me with a link to a statement on the web?

SF/IRA has still not encouraged people to go to the Police north or south of the border.

And and his colleagues gutted a man, and then intimidated the public in the bar to an extent that no one called an ambulance and it was a passing police car that helped the two men.

Hopefully the Nationalist people in NI will now see thru the likes of SF/IRA.

Their mask slipped and what lied underneath was ugly.

The murder, deniels, cover up and intimidation involved more than 3 men.

BuffyBot

mycroft wrote:

And it's only take a month for campaigning by an incredibly brave family and a community taking a step forward againist IRA intimidation.

I did ask this in another post - why it took so long, and whether it would have happened had there not been so much public scrutiny involved - funnily enough, I haven't seen an answer..

mycroft

Cork wrote:

Can you point to one incidence where SF have critised their buddies in the IRA for punishment beatings?

FTA69, If their opposition to punishment beatings is so consistant - can you provide me with a link to a statement on the web?

SF/IRA has still not encouraged people to go to the Police north or south of the border.

Don't hold your breath I've been waiting months for his proof that branch were intimidating SF supporters in the south. He couldn't even find a SF statement condemning this activity to support his allegation

Villain

Cork wrote:

Has SF ever been critical of IRA punishment beatings, expulsions and kangaroo courts?

Yes Gerry Adams said 2 weeks ago that he condemned punishment beatings, no matter who carried them out.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Yes Gerry Adams said 2 weeks ago that he condemned punishment beatings, no matter who carried them out.

But he failed to condemn people who carry them out.

Bertie Ahern said; ?What I find really offensive?is that there was an ability to turn off the punishment beatings while negotiations were in progress , but as soon as the negotiations failed there was a string of them, they are again a nightly occurrence. I will give Sinn Fein full marks for discipline, but not for anything else.?

I have never heard anybody from the SF describing such attacks as criminal.

FTA69

They should have said, "yes we set out to kill civilians because we wanted to terrorise the British people for which we are truely sorry and will not do again". But they didn't, they made the most ridiculous statement that they didn't mean to kill civilians, which is a complete lie and insult to everyone killed.

But they didn't do that Wicknight, they attacked economic, prestigious and military targets in England. Yes, many IRA operations were badly planned, inappropriately carried out etc and many innocent people died as a result and no talk of "hazards of war" from Republicans or whatever will change that. But your fantasy of mad bombers setting out to kill as many innocent people as possible is simply that, a fantasy. Innocent casualties were disastrous for the IRA in publicity terms, what had they to gain from it? Put it this way, if their intentions were as you described them why would they leave a warning, why wouldn't they do a Hamas on it and plant bombs packed full of shrapnel and then leave no warning at all?

There apologies also come years after the events. I am sure the family of Bernard Teggart took a lot of comfort in the fact that 31 years after their 15 year old son (15!) was shot in the head for being an informer the IRA apologies after repeated pressure from the Teggart family.

Well that was an event which should not have happened and in this new phase of reconciliation and peace apologies are a good thing. For all your criticisms of IRA apologies I have not heard you condemn the fact the Brits have apologised for nothing.

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

Well that was an event which should not have happened and in this new phase of reconciliation and peace apologies are a good thing. For all your criticisms of IRA apologies I have not heard you condemn the fact the Brits have apologised for nothing.

damn i forget wasn't there something about false accusation and imprisonment, and an apology. JUST LAST WEEK.

You've not offered an apology to the families of those who were buried in an unmarked grave without a fair trial

FTA69

In the weeks that followed the IRA obfuscated

They released a statement saying that people can go to the police if they want, how is that obfustication?

an arranged mob attacked the the police convoy (spare me the heavy handed response

You are ignoring the fact that people in the Short Strand hate the police and need little encouragement to attack them.

A decent police service is not happening because SF haven't joined the policing board. And spare us the good friday agreement blah blah blah, we've discovered over the past few months that SF and their colleagues have got alot to do before they can truly be commited to a peace process. Time for them to get off their arses and do it.

There seems to be this delusion that the PSNI is the way it is because Sinn Féin isn't on the policing boards. Policing reform will not suddenly take place if Sinn Féin joins the boards, the only body with the power to deliver Patten is the British Government and until they live up to that commitment we will not have hand nor part in foisting this oppressive body upon our electorate.

FTA69, If their opposition to punishment beatings is so consistant - can you provide me with a link to a statement on the web?

http://www.ulsternet-ni.co.uk/stra2403/spages/SNEWS.htm

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

damn i forget wasn't there something about false accusation and imprisonment, and an apology. JUST LAST WEEK.

You've not offered an apology to the families of those who were buried in an unmarked grave without a fair trial

We can all drag up examples of whoever we want killing children and the perps getting away with it and not even apologising

Villain

Cork wrote:

But he failed to condemn people who carry them out.


I have never heard anybody from the SF describing such attacks as criminal.

Actually I believe he did comdemn those who carried out these attacks, I also believe he said they were criminal.

Rant/

SF and the IRA are not the one organisation, now the media will have you believe they are and so will McDowell but there is no evidence to support these claims. I mean the Taoiseach said there wasn't any hard facts to prove that Adams and co were on the IRA army council, now if the leader of our state doesn't have any facts to prove these accusations I'd like to know how people can be so certain.

I honestly believe McDowell is taken this position because he fears for the future of his party, I mean the latest poll shows that the PD's have3% support. Thats 6% less than SF, I'm just glad Bertie has some sense and hasn't supported McDowell's accusations.

SF are working towards peace, they have done more work than any other party to help bring about Peace. Now I will admit that there may be a very small number of SF members who are involved in criminal activity but every party has had members who were, e.g. Lawlor, Burke etc, but SF are trying hard to clean up their party.

People in the Republic like myself don't really know what its like to live in the north so while we can question why the majority of Nationlists have supported SF we have to accept it. I hope that when my kids are studying history for their leaving cert they will be reading of how SF helped broker a deal that brought an end to the IRA and Northern Ireland will be a peaceful and just place.

Sinn Fein are here stay and they are commited to bringing peace to this Island.

Regards,

SF Voter

/Rant

FTA69

mycroft wrote:

damn i forget wasn't there something about false accusation and imprisonment, and an apology. JUST LAST WEEK.

You've not offered an apology to the families of those who were buried in an unmarked grave without a fair trial

No I haven't issued such an apology because I had nothing to do with it. The IRA on the other hand has and has pledged to do their best in uncovering such bodies. This is simply one apology that addresses but a few people, they still have not addressed the hundreds of innocent people they gunned down. Charles Windsor, the honourary head of the Parachute Regiment has refused point blank to apologise for the actions of his regiment on Bloody Sunday.

jbkenn

irish1 wrote:

I hope that when my kids are studying history for their leaving cert they will be reading of how SF helped broker a deal that brought an end to the IRA and Northern Ireland will be a peaceful and just place.

Sinn Fein are here stay and they are commited to bringing peace to this Island.

I hope when my grandchildren are studying for their leaving cert, they won't still be reading about the latest "crisis" in the peace process.

jbkenn

Flukey

The IRA expelled 3 men; Big deal! It is a token gesture that means nothing. They have warned others - threatened to break their legs or kill them - to take responsibility for their actions. Isn't that big of them? Gerry Adams saying he would go to the courts if he had been there, is something, as they have refused to recognise the courts, but the IRA coming out and saying they have disciplined their members does nothing for this. If they were serious they'd bring them to justice, and I am not talking about their own type. It is just a damage limitation exercise from them, not much to get excited about, except that it is a bit unprecedented, but nothing more.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

I mean the latest poll shows that the PD's have3% support. Thats 6% less than SF, /Rant

So what?

SF poll ratings during the 30 years of IRA carnage were far less than 3%.

THe PDS persue their goals thru democratic politics.

SF has an assocaition with a criminal organisation that is the IRA.

This has to end.

SF are working towards peace, they have done more work than any other party to help bring about Peace.

Their record over 30 years speaks volumes & the word "Peace" does not jump out at you.

They could start by using their relationship with the IRA to get that grouging to disband.

They should actually focus in on this rather than lobbying for the early release of the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Villain

Cork wrote:

So what?

SF poll ratings during the 30 years of IRA carnage were far less than 3%.

THe PDS persue their goals thru democratic politics.

SF has an assocaition with a criminal organisation that is the IRA.

This has to end.



Their record over 30 years speaks volumes & the word "Peace" does not jump out at you.

They could start by using their relationship with the IRA to get that grouging to disband.

They should actually focus in on this rather than lobbying for the early release of the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Cork, I actually thought you were informed on the peace process but after reading that post I'm confused.

Every party on this Island would admit that Sinn Fein have done a great deal for the peace process, and cork they did use their relationship to bring a deal to the table before xmas that would have seen an end to the IRA but Mr Paisley wanted humiliation and refused to agree to the deal.

Go ask some members of the party you love so much what SF have done the peace process becuase even they would tell you that without SF there would not be a peace process.

Btw in one sentence you say "SF has an assocaition with a criminal organisation that is the IRA. This has to end."

Then in the next sentence you say "They could start by using their relationship with the IRA to get that grouging to disband."

You can't have it both ways cork!!!

Flukey

irish1 wrote:

Btw in one sentence you say "SF has an assocaition with a criminal organisation that is the IRA. This has to end."

Then in the next sentence you say "They could start by using their relationship with the IRA to get that grouging to disband."

You can't have it both ways cork!!!

That is not having it both ways. Yes they do have a connection and the best thing they can do with it is get the IRA to disband.

Villain

Flukey wrote:

That is not having it both ways. Yes they do have a connection and the best thing they can do with it is get the IRA to disband.

I agree completely Flukey and I believe SF can broker a deal that will bring about an end to the IRA, but Cork said SF's association with the IRA has to end, well you see if that ends SF won't be able to broker that deal??

Flukey

That would be part of the deal, although having said that, it should be done anyway.

Villain

So would you agree that they shouldn't end their assoication until that deal is brokered??

Flukey

The IRA should go anyway, deal or no deal. They should not be some sort of bargaining chip. They are not relevant to the problem at this stage. They are an obstruction to it now.

Villain

Well I agree with you again but I live in the real world and know that won't happen without a deal that Nationalists agree to.

Flukey

Of course there should be a deal, but that doesn't mean that the IRA has to be still there at that point and part of that deal. They can "go away" and a deal on the real issues can be done. A deal will be much easier without them.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

So would you agree that they shouldn't end their assoication until that deal is brokered??

They need to end their associations with the criminal IRA ASAP.

Either SF are a democratic party or they are not.

The days of an armalite in one hand & a ballot box in the other is over.


SF will have to go into negottiations like any other party.

IRA weapons should not be used as bargaining chips.

Well I agree with you again but I live in the real world and know that won't happen without a deal that Nationalists agree to.

Nationalists hat no time for the IRA.

Continued Criminality is the only reason for the IRAs continued existance.

FTA69

Cork wrote:

Nationalists hat no time for the IRA.

Continued Criminality is the only reason for the IRAs continued existance.

You are beginning to sound like an automated machine Cork. Many northern Nationalists do support the IRA Cork, and they do so because they remain isolated from the state and many communities are still subject to Loyalist and state oppression.

Many here have criticised the use of IRA arms as "bargaining chips", out of curiosity would the same people condemn the British government for witholding peoples' rights and entitlements (police reform and demilitarisation) as being an "obstruction to the peace process"?

Flukey

The problems over rights and entitlements started all this, going back to the civil rights marches. The IRA came after that and as a result of that. However, they never protected nationalists as it is so often protrayed. They did not stand guard at the end of roads or at doors of houses stopping intruders or attacks on nationalist areas. They went out and attacked other themselves. While they may have taken out some Loyalist paramilitaries, the majority of people they killed and injured were providing no threat to nationalists. Many were ordinary people going about their daily lives. The bombs they set off in businesses and such other targets did not protect nationalists either. So to say that the IRA protected nationalists is untrue and the same can be said of loyalist paramilitaries and their people.

In fact in many ways the actions of both led to their own people being more at risk, by encouraging the other side into acts of retaliation. Neither ever addressed the source of the real problems and they were only symptoms of it. It was only when the real issues were addressed that progress was begun to be made, as we have seen over the past 10 years. For the previous 25 years all that was put on hold by the paramilitary campaigns. So none of the paramilitaries ever protected their own communities. They just made things worse for everyone, on both sides. It is time for that to stop so that the final parts of addressing the real issues of rights and entitlements and equality for all can be completed.

Cork

Many northern Nationalists do support the IRA

How many?

The IRA has had zero mandate to carry out any action in the name of the Irish nation or people.

Many here have criticised the use of IRA arms as "bargaining chips", out of curiosity would the same people condemn the British government for witholding peoples' rights and entitlements (police reform and demilitarisation) as being an "obstruction to the peace process"?

Now the Catolic Church, Irish government and SDLP support the PSNI.

SF and their buddies in the IRA do not.

But then the IRA have their own methods such as punishment beatings.

That particuler group of Thugs (IRA) do not give 2 ***** about peoples rights and entitlements.

It does not even see killong an Irish garda on the streets of adare as a crime.

One of the most basic human rights is the right to life.

I think the provisional movement needs reminding of that.

The IRA has to go. It has not a reason to exist.

Weapons should not be used as bargaining chips in a democracy.

FTA69

How many?

A substantial amount.

The IRA has had zero mandate to carry out any action in the name of the Irish nation or people.

Nobody said they had a democratic mandate, they do have the substantial support of their communities though.

Now the Catolic Church

The same organisation who supported right-wing dictators across the world over? If they kept their noses out of politics this country would have been, and would be a lot better off.

Irish government and SDLP support the PSNI.

Their support doesn't sway me at all, the fact remains that patten reforms have not been delivered in their entirity and since we are on the business of mandates I would like to point out the Irish people ratified the GFA which includes patten.

Weapons should not be used as bargaining chips in a democracy.

So you are in agreement that British Army demilitarisation and policing reform should not be used as bargaining chips by the British government?

BuffyBot

Still waiting on some one to answer my earlier post.. FTA/BCB et al?

I did ask this in another post - why it took so long, and whether it would have happened had there not been so much public scrutiny involved - funnily enough, I haven't seen an answer..

So, why did the IRA take so long to drum these three out? And do you think they would have been disciplined at all if there had been no media/government pressure applied?

Villain

Cork wrote:

They need to end their associations with the criminal IRA ASAP.

Either SF are a democratic party or they are not.

The days of an armalite in one hand & a ballot box in the other is over.


SF will have to go into negottiations like any other party.

IRA weapons should not be used as bargaining chips.

AH but Cork you said

They could start by using their relationship with the IRA to get that grouging to disband

so how can they do that if they end their association with the IRA??

I'm begining to think you don't understand the issues at hand at all.