McDowell names Adams and McGuinness as members of IRA Army Council.

mike65

And whatsmore he won't get sued for doing so.

The Min for Justice made his comment during an interview on Today FM.

Mike.

Cork

This was not a big surprise.

SF & the IRA were always 2 sides of the same coin.

No Doubt Adams will insist that he was never a member of the IRA.

Let the likes of Adams, Ferris and McGuinness sue.

They won't.

billy the squid

Martin McGuiness is on RTE radio 1 now Defending himself. still answering questions with out answering them.

ReefBreak

He said McDowell's comments were not true, but stopped short of calling him a liar. Personally, I wouldn't believe one single syllable of what comes out of the mouth of Adams/McGuinness.

shoegirl

Martin McGuinness has long since been established to have been a major PIRA leader in Derry in the 1970s. Even Nell McCafferty in her autobiography explicitly mentions this. Its also believed that Adams was chief of staff at some point.

However whether they still play a major role in today's army council is unknown (though highly probable).

true

I think the security services of the UK would know this, plus the Gardai intelligence. Hence the UK, Irish government, PSNI, Gardai, US envoy etc all making statements along the same lines.

Rew

true wrote:

I think the security services of the UK would know this, plus the Gardai intelligence. Hence the UK, Irish government, PSNI, Gardai, US envoy etc all making statements along the same lines.

Not to mention the our own Military Intelligence people...

ArthurDent

Ahern denies knowing make-up of IRA council

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0220/northpolitics.html

The old PD/FF 2 step on this whole SF/IRA affair, is getting really really annoying.

MacDowell and Dermot Ahern make a statment naming Adams, McGuinness and Ferris as members of IRA council and the Bertie steps up and says "nobody told me" WTF. Is he the taoiseach or not?

Seems like Adams in not the only political leader here not in control of his people.

Sponge Bob

One has vague memories of Slab vs the Sunday Times , Slab lost .

cal29

The thing is if they are on the IRA army council or even if they were just members of the IRA they cannot say yes actually micheal mcdowell is right me and gerry and martin are all on the IRA army council
it is still an illegal organisation that would be setting themselves up for a nice long prison sentence

AmenToThat

billy the squid wrote:

Martin McGuiness is on RTE radio 1 now Defending himself. still answering questions with out answering them.

Id nearly incriminate myself answering back to that right wing bigot McDowell. Let him howl on to his hearts content because more and more of the Irish public are getting fed up of his rantings without producing even a shredd of evidence.

Sponge Bob

Flick is a nasty unreconstructed blueshirt but he and the shinners they deserve each other.

Its payback for all the boredom with this silly "Process" and Mc Guinness saying sitYEE-AYshun ad nauseum the po faced moron .

Consider it a karma thing and feck due process as long as the plod keeps finding heaps of burnt banknotes as they go along.

SF shoulda done the deal with Trimble , now they face a slippery slope into relative oblivion .

AmenToThat

Sponge Bob wrote:

Consider it a karma thing and feck due process as long as the plod keeps finding heaps of burnt banknotes as they go along.

Apparrently there were no burnt banknotes.
BTW the only ones found with the currency so far are a Cork businessman with no connection to SF a dissadent Republican (Real IRA) and a sum of money found on a premises frequented by the PSNI/RUC officers.

dieselfreak

:mad:

AmenToThat wrote:

Apparrently there were no burnt banknotes.
BTW the only ones found with the currency so far are a Cork businessman with no connection to SF a dissadent Republican (Real IRA) and a sum of money found on a premises frequented by the PSNI/RUC officers.

For Fu*k sake do you honestly believe this shi*e. The IRA robbed the damn bank. The SF heads new about it.

The "drop" in the country club, is simply the seed of doubt for the core supporters of SF/IRA, who will cling on to this, as another conspiracy by the British Government.

As far as I'm concerned both sides of the political divide have the most hell bent criminals, who are seeing the peace process bring an end to the organisations that legitimised their lust for money and power.

gandalf

Actually I would view the currency found in the country club, which is one for PSNI or retired PSNI/RUC officers as a threat than someone trying to say they pilfered the loot from the Northern Bank.

While I am no lover of Herr Flick or many of his policies he has now put it up the Grizzly and Martin, either put up or shut up or sue or don't and if you don't we all know what that means. Wink Wink knudge knudge say no more

The IRA's time has passed, the time has come for them to allow Sinn Fein become a legitimate political party by disbanding and decommissioning all weapons. At this stage they will have to have an Ant & Dec Live TV Decommissioning Special to appease Big Ian and the boys :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

10 years of grinding through "Process" and McGuinness and his sitYEE-AYshun is more than enough.

Not only is the IRA irrelevant (save when bashing teenagers in the leg) , so is SF now .

As politics is the art of the possible we have tired of this sitYEE-AYshun crap and the inability of the curly haired muppet to explain how one sitYEE-AYshun dffers from another and leads to another but nothing is done . Too much process for one lifetime for me. 10 years of listening to talk about sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun after sitYEE-AYshun GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a big open window there for so long through which any honest politician was welcome to jump but for now lets call in the CAB and the Revenue and see what McGuinness makes of that sitYEE-AYshun.

Gandalf , the plant in the Plod Club near Belfast was the most pathetic republican plot of all time .............ever . Surely a sign of the passing of the sitYEE-AYshun Zeitgeist .

true

Well said Sponge Bob. All we ever hear on RTE is Adams and McGuinness whining about the "sitYEE-AYshun". Such a pathetic crowd of unproductive whingers.

Hobbes

What else should they do? Fact is there has been no actual evidence placed on the table that says the IRA did take the money.

They are probably getting sick of the same questions being asked again and again.

Sponge Bob

I am sick of 10 long years of sitYEE-AYshun and process.

ENUFF

bounty

does mcguinness say situation alot?

Sleepy

AmenToThat wrote:

Id nearly incriminate myself answering back to that right wing bigot McDowell. Let him howl on to his hearts content because more and more of the Irish public are getting fed up of his rantings without producing even a shredd of evidence.

ROFL

So, McDowell is a bigot and Adams and McGuinness are what exactly?

And I think it's safe to say that the only reason we haven't seen prosecutions is because the government are scared to death of what would happen if they were to persue justice and arrest Adams and McGuinness.

Personally I'd love to see it done and the Army let show the RA what a real war looks like but I know I'm very much in the majority of favouring a short brutal war over the procrastination and petty name calling of northern politics.

The Irish public are far more fed up of the kneecappings, criminality and lies of Sinn Fein/IRA than they are of our Minister for Justice who genuinely is caught between a rock and a hard place.

cdebru

bertie says neither he nor mcdowell know who is on the IRA army council



http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0221/moneylaundering.html


so does that mean mc dowell was lying yesterday

Villain

I told ya McDowell had bitten off more than he could chew, I honestly believe he is trying to bash SF purely for political gain.

Sleepy

And Sinn Fein never bash other parties' policies purely for political gain?

What were all the bin-tax protests about then? Bringing the capital into line with the rest of the country and ensuring an equitable tax situation to pay for waste management seemed like good politics to me (and I'm no big fan of the current Government). I cannot accept that Sinn Fein's actions in this regard were anything more than a cynical attempt to gain votes from the working classes and those too ignorant to realise how a country needs to be run.

If, and it's a very big if, McDowell was in the wrong in claiming that the three boyos are on (or in control of) the Army Council, why hasn't he been sued? I'm guessing it's for the same reason none of the mainstream press have been sued for the claim: because it's true.

Meh

cdebru wrote:

bertie says neither he nor mcdowell know who is on the IRA army council

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0221/moneylaundering.html

so does that mean mc dowell was lying yesterday

Mr Ahern said Mr McDowell had access to intelligence briefings, but that hard evidence was another matter.

He added that he did not have the 'professional assessment' of the gardaí on the matter, as he had on the Northern Bank robbery.

So in other words, Garda intelligence has concluded that Adams and McGuinness are on the Army Council, but Ahern and McDowell don't have "personal knowledge" of it i.e. neither of them have seen with their own eyes Adams and McGuinness participating in an Army Council meeting. So there's no contradiction, you just have to pay careful attention to the words both of them are using. Typical Bertie of course, he's leaving his options open

Roisin Dubh

Well maybe it's a good thing if it keeps the IRA from killing Protestants.

Even though they are probably on the Army Council, that body has 7 members so it doesn't mean SF controls it.

Villain

Sleepy wrote:

And Sinn Fein never bash other parties' policies purely for political gain?

What were all the bin-tax protests about then? Bringing the capital into line with the rest of the country and ensuring an equitable tax situation to pay for waste management seemed like good politics to me (and I'm no big fan of the current Government). I cannot accept that Sinn Fein's actions in this regard were anything more than a cynical attempt to gain votes from the working classes and those too ignorant to realise how a country needs to be run.

If, and it's a very big if, McDowell was in the wrong in claiming that the three boyos are on (or in control of) the Army Council, why hasn't he been sued? I'm guessing it's for the same reason none of the mainstream press have been sued for the claim: because it's true.

Ah but making political gain from protest and lying in public are two very different things, and if you read posts here in the past in relation to the libel laws you would see why thy can't sue.

Meh I believe what he said was they don't have "hard evidence", and well without that their speculating.

Stabshauptmann

Cork wrote:

This was not a big surprise.

SF & the IRA were always 2 sides of the same coin.

No Doubt Adams will insist that he was never a member of the IRA.

Let the likes of Adams, Ferris and McGuinness sue.

They won't.

They cant, look up Irish libel law. Ive explained it enough times before.

Meh

irish1 wrote:

Meh I believe what he said was they don't have "hard evidence"

He never used those exact words. Bertie is a slippery customer and you need to listen to what he actually says, not what he wants you to think he's said. In any case, by his own admission, he hasn't asked the Gardai for their "professional assessment", so how would he know?

Necromancer wrote:

They cant, look up Irish libel law. Ive explained it enough times before.

Would you mind explaining how Adams is unable to sue for being called an IRA member, yet "Slab" Murphy is able to sue for the exact same thing?

Sleepy

irish1 wrote:

Ah but making political gain from protest and lying in public are two very different things, and if you read posts here in the past in relation to the libel laws you would see why thy can't sue.

Meh I believe what he said was they don't have "hard evidence", and well without that their speculating.

How you can differentiate protests that were designed to deceive the ignorant from lying, I don't know. However, I think it's a pretty accepted truth that the men in question are on, or control, the army council. It would seem that our state intelligence services (both Gardai and Military) would confirm this. The fact that there's no video footage to prove it in a courtroom (nor the political will to bring about such a prosecution) is neither here nor there.

To me, and the majority of this country it would seem that it is once again Sinn Fein who are lying when Adams et al deny their membership of the council.

Dyr

So MacDowell knows who's on the army council but he doesnt tell bertie, so bertie cant say for sure? that as fine as an example of doublethink as anything the shinners can come up with. :rolleyes:

MacDowell is playing the exact same game that his political daddy OMalley did when he was Minister for Justice, same old same old

Stabshauptmann

gandalf wrote:

Actually I would view the currency found in the country club, which is one for PSNI or retired PSNI/RUC officers as a threat [,rather] than someone trying to say they pilfered the loot from the Northern Bank.

A good point I was going to make myself which I havent yet seen raised in the mass media.

While I am no lover of Herr Flick or many of his policies he has now put it up the Grizzly and Martin, either put up or shut up or sue or don't and if you don't we all know what that means. Wink Wink knudge knudge say no more

None of that makes any sense.
Using derrogitive nicknames and insults doesnt strenghten your position it weakens it by revealing a personal bias.
Put up or shut up? I call "x" a wanker. He must either accept that he is a wanker or stop complaining about being labeled a wanker??? Thats the most rediculous statement Ive ever heard!
THEY CANT SUE. THERE IS NO TORT. IVE EXPLAINED THIS BEFORE.


The following things must be shown for an action in defamation to be supported;
a statement was made about you expressly or by implication in such a way as to be understood by others as referring to you.
it was published to a third party
the statement must be likely to lower you in the eyes of right thinking persons

Ok so what McDowell said on the surface looks like a tort but...

Defences offered for defamation:
Justification
Absolute Privilege
Fair Comment
Qualified Privilege
Consent

Fustification is the one everyone thinks of but is totally irrelevant to this case.

Absolute Privilage is how the first allegation that adams and co were on army council was made, by Paisley of all people. In McDowells interview he cited the house of commons as his source. This is how the papers broke the news a long time ago and why they can continue to do so.

Qualified privilage:
When a statement is “fairly made by a person in the discharge of some public or private duty whether legal or moral or in the conduct of his own affairs, in matters where his interest is concerned.”

McDowell has an air tight defence. The allegation that Adams is on the army council, true or false, has been in the public domain for years and as Minister for Juctice he should make his opinion known.

The IRA's time has passed

For over 200 years violent republicans have existed in the background in Ireland, why would they disappear now?

Republicanism seems to go in cycles, Public unrest---> Political means --> Oppression --> Violence ---> Compromise ---> Violent elements go undergroud ---> Public unrest.
The IRA is going away naturally and so long as governments act in a fair and equitable manner and there are no pograms or attacks against the nationalist communities the IRA or other manifestations of violent republicanism will stay underground well away from the public conscious.

the time has come for them to allow Sinn Fein become a legitimate political party by disbanding and decommissioning all weapons.

The time has come for SF to become a legitimate party by severing its links with the IRA in much the same way as FF left behind the IRA. There is no onus on the IRA to do anything BUT SF's power comes from its links to the IRA and they may not be in any hurry to abandon their cosy relationship.

The 6 largest political parties in Ireland have had strong links to militancy and/or criminality.
FF, FG, DUP, UUP, Labour, SF. Whats new?

At this stage they will have to have an Ant & Dec Live TV Decommissioning Special to appease Big Ian and the boys :rolleyes:

"What do we want?
-Decommisioning
When do we want it?
-Never!"

Stabshauptmann

Meh wrote:

He never used those exact words. Bertie is a slippery customer and you need to listen to what he actually says, not what he wants you to think he's said. In any case, by his own admission, he hasn't asked the Gardai for their "professional assessment", so how would he know?Would you mind explaining how Adams is unable to sue for being called an IRA member, yet "Slab" Murphy is able to sue for the exact same thing?

Slab sued a newspaper not a government minister, the newspaper used the defence of quoting a member of parliment

Stabshauptmann

And it wasnt for being an IRA member it was for being accused of being a member of the army council.

ishmael whale

Necromancer wrote:

Slab sued a newspaper not a government minister, the newspaper used the defence of quoting a minister

It might be interesting just to recall some of the details of that case, lest the impression be created that all that happened was the newspaper said they were quoting a Minister.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=613415&issue_id=6146

“IRA libel case lost -bill for £1m costs
THE LIBEL action by Co. Louth farmer Thomas ``Slab'' Murphy against the Sunday Times over an article published 15 years ago was dismissed by the High Court yesterday. He was ordered to pay costs estimated at more than £1 million. The article, on June 30, 1985, described Mr Murphy as the IRA's ``Officer Commanding for the whole of Northern Ireland''.

The jury of eight women and three men found the article meant that Mr Murphy was a prominent member of the IRA, that he planned murder and the bombing of property and that those words were true ``in substance or in fact''…..

During the hearing, a number of gardai gave evidence that Mr Murphy had been arrested several times up to 1989 but had not been arrested since then. On one occasion he was arrested in a car stopped near Monaghan town and in that car were two other men, one of whom was Mr Michael McKevitt and the second Mr Martin from Crossmaglen

……. Superintendent Michael Staunton told the court that it was his belief Mr Murphy was a senior member of the IRA and said that was Mr Murphy's reputation among gardai in the Dundalk area and further afield. He agreed Mr Murphy was never charged or convicted of IRA membership but said there were difficulties in securing a conviction solely on the basis of the belief of a Garda Chief Superintendent…..

The court was told a false passport in the name of Jim Faughey was found in Mr Murphy's home on June 27, 1989, during a garda search. Counsel for the Sunday Times, Mr Kevin Feeney SC, said the passport bore the photograph of Mr Murphy and stated an identical height and eye colour to Mr Murphy's. It also showed the holder had made brief trips to Greece. The newspaper contended the passport was one of a batch stolen from the Department of Foreign Affairs in 1984 and some of those stolen passports were subsequently found on people who were convicted of IRA-related offences.

Mr Murphy denied that he had used that passport for visits to Greece and denied those visits were on IRA business or to buy arms for the IRA. He also denied visiting Yugoslavia for IRA purposes. Asked if he supported the IRA, he said: ``Not really.''

Convicted IRA murderer turned informer Sean O'Callaghan told the hearing he saw Mr Murphy at three IRA gatherings.

Former IRA man Eamon Collins said Mr Murphy was the most senior IRA man he ever met, and said Mr Murphy had told him (mr Collins) that he (Mr Murphy) was representing the IRA Army Council at an IRA inquiry into a botched IRA shooting in Newry in October 1983.

Earlier, closing the case for Mr Murphy, Mr Leahy said the Sunday Times had put up ``a cowardly cocktail of defences''.”

Meh

Necromancer wrote:

Slab sued a newspaper not a government minister, the newspaper used the defence of quoting a minister

Um no, the article in question doesn't appear to have quoted any government minister on the allegations it made.

Absolute Privilage is how the first allegation that adams and co were on army council was made, by Paisley of all people. In McDowells interview he cited the house of commons as his source. This is how the papers broke the news a long time ago and why they can continue to do so.

Only "accurate and neutral" reporting of parliamentary comments (i.e. "Mr Paisley said Adams was on the IRA Army Council") is privileged. Certainly this articledoesn't come under this.

Qualified privilage:
When a statement is “fairly made by a person in the discharge of some public or private duty whether legal or moral or in the conduct of his own affairs, in matters where his interest is concerned.”

Qualified privilege does not apply to newspaper reporting on matters of fact (as opposed to opinion). (See Reynolds v. Times Newspapers. The Sunday Times lost because they presented Albert Reynolds' alleged dishonesty as a fact, not an opinion.) The question of whether or not Gerry Adams is a member of the IRA Army Council is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact one way or the other. Either he is or he isn't.

And it wasnt for being an IRA member it was for being accused of being a member of the army council.

Hairsplitting.

mike65

Marian Finucane programme held a text vote this morning

Question - Was Michael McDowell right to name Adams, McGuines and Ferris as members of the IRA Army Council?

Result - Yes 67% No 33%.

That result suprised me, I was expecting it to be defeated. The fact it was'nt tells me the Shinners have more to worry about than they let on.

Mike.

monument

AmenToThat wrote:

Apparrently there were no burnt banknotes.
BTW the only ones found with the currency so far are a Cork businessman with no connection to SF a dissadent Republican (Real IRA) and a sum of money found on a premises frequented by the PSNI/RUC officers.

...

dieselfreak wrote:

:mad:
For Fu*k sake do you honestly believe this shi*e. The IRA robbed the damn bank. The SF heads new about it.

Did he say anything about who robbed the bank or who knew about it?

No? Did he not just point out that the only money found so far was given to the police by a Cork businessman, found at a house of a a dissadent republican, and at a country club used by PSNI/RUC officers?

Sleepy wrote:

Personally I'd love to see it done and the Army let show the RA what a real war looks like but I know I'm very much in the majority of favouring a short brutal war over the procrastination and petty name calling of northern politics.

:rolleyes: FFS.

“majority of favouring a short brutal war”

Could you explain what majority is in favor of a “short brutal war”? And where are the Irish army going to fight the "RA"? Just in the south or in the north as well?

Keano_sli

It never ceases to amaze me the number of IRA/Sinn fein apologists you find on Irish message boards. Definatly seems to be a higher proportion that in society in general.
I wonder are people mezmerized by Romantic Republicans notions and being able to voice their support for this from the relative anonimity of a board is less shamefull.
I know a lot of younger people are blinded by Sinn fein propoganda and like to be in the "rest of the world is against us" mentality. These yonger people will not recall some of the IRA atrocities from the 70's and 80's so here is a useful link to inform. It removed the Rose-tinted glasses and reveals just what the Sinn fein/IRA project actually means to many people. It may help them understand why we do not trust Sinn fein or the IRA and why Unionists would like to see the guns being decommisioned.
I'm not preaching to anyone, but if you can support people who do this to other human beings then that is between you and your concience.
But stop coming on to message boards and telling us what great guys they are and how they are trust worthy and hard done by the evil Governments and that its all about party politics.
I particularly draw your attention to the Dissapeared section. Sinn Fein are always calling for inquiries in the interests of human rights and justice well you don't hear them talk much about the rights of the dissappeared do you.

I'm afraid this has turned into a bit of a Rant for this I apogise, maybe I should have stared a new thread, but it is relevant on any thread about Sinn Fein/IRA
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/

shltter

while adams mcguinness and ferris might not be able to sue

the other allegation that Mcdowell made against the newapaper Daily Ireland is most likely to end up in court
he alleged that it was a provo front he has also made statements that it would be a fascist paper

monument

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/ ...

That website seams to claim that the Provos ("IRA/SF") planted the Omagh Bomb.

Is that right?

A Dub in Glasgo

Keano_sli wrote:

---SNIPPED all the irrelevant bits---

I'm afraid this has turned into a bit of a Rant for this I apogise

Yep, that was a rant

shltter

Keano_sli wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me the number of IRA/Sinn fein apologists you find on Irish message boards. Definatly seems to be a higher proportion that in society in general.
I wonder are people mezmerized by Romantic Republicans notions and being able to voice their support for this from the relative anonimity of a board is less shamefull.
I know a lot of younger people are blinded by Sinn fein propoganda and like to be in the "rest of the world is against us" mentality. These yonger people will not recall some of the IRA atrocities from the 70's and 80's so here is a useful link to inform. It removed the Rose-tinted glasses and reveals just what the Sinn fein/IRA project actually means to many people. It may help them understand why we do not trust Sinn fein or the IRA and why Unionists would like to see the guns being decommisioned.
I'm not preaching to anyone, but if you can support people who do this to other human beings then that is between you and your concience.
But stop coming on to message boards and telling us what great guys they are and how they are trust worthy and hard done by the evil Governments and that its all about party politics.
I particularly draw your attention to the Dissapeared section. Sinn Fein are always calling for inquiries in the interests of human rights and justice well you don't hear them talk much about the rights of the dissappeared do you.

I'm afraid this has turned into a bit of a Rant for this I apogise, maybe I should have stared a new thread, but it is relevant on any thread about Sinn Fein/IRA
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/

Could you find a more biased site or did you look really hard and this is the best you could find


this is the group behind this very one sided view of the conflict in this country

http://www.upmj.co.uk/links.php4


you can have a look at the links to other great sites like the DUP site and loyal orange lodge or one of my favourites the UDR.co.uk


Don't post this crap up and pretend its an a definitve look at the troubles or the IRA

shltter

monument wrote:

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/ ...

That website seams to claim that the Provos ("IRA/SF") planted the Omagh Bomb.

Is that right?

no it is not right neither did they kill the people in darkley it is a loyalist website

monument

I actualy know that it's not right, the question was aimed at the poster.

billy the squid

And it wasnt for being an IRA member it was for being accused of being a member of the army council.

are you saying that the IRA's army council are not in the IRA, could they be a part of another organisation, or independent of the IRA

Stabshauptmann

Meh wrote:

Um no, the article in question doesn't appear to have quoted any government minister on the allegations it made.Only "accurate and neutral" reporting of parliamentary comments (i.e. "Mr Paisley said Adams was on the IRA Army Council") is privileged. Certainly this articledoesn't come under this.Qualified privilege does not apply to newspaper reporting on matters of fact (as opposed to opinion). (See Reynolds v. Times Newspapers. The Sunday Times lost because they presented Albert Reynolds' alleged dishonesty as a fact, not an opinion.) The question of whether or not Gerry Adams is a member of the IRA Army Council is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact one way or the other. Either he is or he isn't.Hairsplitting.

The first article drew on a lot of sources, including politicians. Certainly there was sucurity briefings to these politicians.

The second article was the one I was thinking of, being the recent one. Read the article you quote before quoting it!

"This accusation is not new. It has been made often, for many years in the first two cases, with increasing frequency in the third. But it gained fresh force yesterday."


Its not that a news paper has absolute or qualified privilage its that it quoted someone who had.
Membership of an illegal organisation and directing terrorism are two VERY different criminal offences. Hardly hair splitting

Stabshauptmann

billy the squid wrote:

are you saying that the IRA's army council are not in the IRA, could they be a part of another organisation, or independent of the IRA

Im saying in a criminal court the evidence needed to secure a conviction for directing terrorism, and the sentence it carries are different to those of membership of an illegal organisation.
Ive said before that Adams and McGuinness could probably be convicted in the morning of the latter offence but directing terrorism (being on the Army Council) is harder to prove

Stabshauptmann

Keano_sli wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me the number of IRA/Sinn fein apologists you find on Irish message boards. Definatly seems to be a higher proportion that in society in general.
I wonder are people mezmerized by Romantic Republicans notions and being able to voice their support for this from the relative anonimity of a board is less shamefull.
I know a lot of younger people are blinded by Sinn fein propoganda and like to be in the "rest of the world is against us" mentality. These yonger people will not recall some of the IRA atrocities from the 70's and 80's so here is a useful link to inform. It removed the Rose-tinted glasses and reveals just what the Sinn fein/IRA project actually means to many people. It may help them understand why we do not trust Sinn fein or the IRA and why Unionists would like to see the guns being decommisioned.
I'm not preaching to anyone, but if you can support people who do this to other human beings then that is between you and your concience.
But stop coming on to message boards and telling us what great guys they are and how they are trust worthy and hard done by the evil Governments and that its all about party politics.
I particularly draw your attention to the Dissapeared section. Sinn Fein are always calling for inquiries in the interests of human rights and justice well you don't hear them talk much about the rights of the dissappeared do you.

I'm afraid this has turned into a bit of a Rant for this I apogise, maybe I should have stared a new thread, but it is relevant on any thread about Sinn Fein/IRA
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/

I read the website, got some interesting points out of it: especially that bit about the new pistols that came in december. I also never saw that photo of the LVF decomissioning.
BUT....
its incredibly sectarian:

"When will the Protestant people received justice in the courts of Northern Ireland?"
"Protestants are being denied their human rights" when Orange order parades are stoped.
"Sinn Fein IRA CRIMINALS have killed more roman cathlics than any other group"
"who rule their ghetto areas by the threat of the gun and hurly sticks "

Also some of the logic astounds me,
"The IRA are 'Criminals' and as 'criminals' are subject to and by all accepted definitions of war crimes,"
" The Official IRA + The Provisional IRA + The Real IRA = The IRA
There is no difference the revolving shop sign changes to suit the present political climate and once all the juice is squeezed out on the political front the IRA go back to what they do best"

SF IRA is the title, so it is quite clear it is the PIRA in question so why is the omagh bomb and other non PIRA operations in the website.

Where is the context?
There is a heading for collusion but nothing about the RUC, SAS, MI5, MI6, Special Branch, B specials ......

Apparently "innocent Protestants" were the target of Frizzell's fish shop!

Its got some facts but it wont win ppl over because it is so hate filled and arrogant.
Im not a christian so you'll excuse me if I get this slightly wrong
"how can you point out the splinter in your neighbours eye if you cant see the [timber] in your own"

Im not sure how you can complain about SF proparganda when you offer this site as a source

Sleepy

monument wrote:

“majority of favouring a short brutal war”

Could you explain what majority is in favor of a “short brutal war”? And where are the Irish army going to fight the "RA"? Just in the south or in the north as well?

Apologies, that was a typo, I meant minority. Personally I believe a two pronged approach between the Irish and British armies that could cleanse this island of the RA (and the unionist head the balls) would be a great thing. I realise, however, that this will never happen as most of the right-thinking people of this country don't have the stomach to stoop to the IRA's level.

billy the squid wrote:

are you saying that the IRA's army council are not in the IRA, could they be a part of another organisation, or independent of the IRA

Why didn't we realise it before!? Obviously the army council is controlled by the Illuminati and the rest of the organisation wouldn't harm a fly normally but they're scared of the big bad wolves! :rolleyes:

Stabshauptmann

Sleepy wrote:

Apologies, that was a typo, I meant minority. Personally I believe a two pronged approach between the Irish and British armies that could cleanse this island of the RA (and the unionist head the balls) would be a great thing. I realise, however, that this will never happen as most of the right-thinking people of this country don't have the stomach to stoop to the IRA's level.

Why didn't we realise it before!? Obviously the army council is controlled by the Illuminati and the rest of the organisation wouldn't harm a fly normally but they're scared of the big bad wolves! :rolleyes:

Yes becuse stringent oppression of the IRA would destroy its support base, thats the way its always worked in the past...

The IRA is going away because the two governemnts are dealing with the problems and justifications for its existance. Once that step is complete it can target the remnants as criminals. So long as they stay clear of the special criminal court and not mention PIRA, just stick to their criminal indescretions, there wont be any public opposition.

Why didn't we realise it before!? Obviously the army council is controlled by the Illuminati and the rest of the organisation wouldn't harm a fly normally but they're scared of the big bad wolves!

Stop acting the twat I explained what I meant even though it was clear.