Dublin Bus May End Some Nitelink Service

GuanYin

Haven't been able to find a link for this but I've been informed that Dublin Bus has deemed the Nitelink service un-economica due to security issues and plans to end it in 5 weeks time.

Can anyone confirm this?

Surely this can't be allowed to go ahead, the major problems with binge drinking and socialising in Ireland stems, in my opinion, from inaccessability to amenities and poor transport facilities. This will only compound the problem.

cdebru

might have more to do with the impending 48 hour week

gandalf

This is more suited to the Transport forum - moving there.

AlienGav

Dublin Bus have stopped their Nitelink service for Monday - Wednesday.

Thursday's, Friday's & Saturdays links will not be affected.

The end.

enterprise

AlienGav wrote:

Dublin Bus have stopped their Nitelink service for Monday - Wednesday.

Thats news to me.

Since when?

spacetweek

enterprise wrote:

Thats news to me.

Since when?

It's news to me too. I didn't even know there ever had been a Mon-Wed service.

AlienGav

I work on the night links! They've been like that for ages, since about last year. They stopped making a profit on having nitelinks out on the road, as hardly any people were using them. They have been reducing the numbers, and frequency of the nightlink service under everyone's noses Now they'll only be operating on Thurs-Sat, as these are busy nights.

You must face the fact that hardly anybody goes out on Monday, tuesday and wednesday

pete

where can you get a list of 'official' nitelink stops?

snappieT

pete wrote:

where can you get a list of 'official' nitelink stops?

Here: http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/nitelink.asp

Click on your route number and you get all the stops at the end of the page

Time Magazine

This is terrible. Dublin Bus is state company and provides a service to the public, it is not a profit-maximising firm.

This will be objected to.

Dub13

Angry Banana wrote:

This is terrible. Dublin Bus is state company and provides a service to the public, it is not a profit-maximising firm.

.

But the Gov also want Dublin Bus to be a financial viable company,in this day and age if it does not make money they will not run it.There is no way a private company would run something that does not make ends meet so why should Dublin Bus.

AlienGav

It's a semi-state company...

Emerson

They wouldn't be planning on ending the service on April 1st?

Honestly, I can't believe this. It's bad enough the service being curtailed and crippled so much thus far. We need some sort of public transport system 24hrs a day.

It's €20 for a taxi from town for myself. There's no hope in hell I'm paying that once or twice a week!

Dub13

AlienGav wrote:

It's a semi-state company...

I no whats your point...?


From June some Dublin Bus Roots will be going 24Hour such as the 746.

AlienGav

Dub13 wrote:

I no whats your point...?

It's Dublin Buss's private investors that are forcing them into ending the nightlink service :mad:

Dub13

Yes its the Goverment who want them to brake even,if they want this they will have to cut back on things that dont make money.Simple economics really

AlienGav

^^^^^^

Agreed

AngelofFire

Dub13 you think that its ok to subject everything to the rules of economics. The health service isn`t profitable, does that mean we should disband it?. University college Dublin is sending back a deficit this year, does that mean that we shut it down? Certain things are run for the public good, and a bus service is one of them, we dont run them based on return in investment.

shoegirl

As far as I recall they only ever really provided a Sun-Weds service around the Christmas holidays, also originally the service used to end at 3am? They only upgraded it to 4.30am a couple of years back.

As for the bigger question of Dublin Bus profitability, to some extent DB has got itself into a vicious circle where routes are cutback and made less efficient or effective, or fail to upgrade routes in growing areas, they then start losing passengers as commuters find the service no longer meets their needs and move to private transport. So DB lose even more money, cutback the services further as demand appears to be dropping, and are rewarded by the commuting public with collapsing demand as users are no longer able to depend on a flimsy services.

Good examples of this are the 41 - despite the population of the area doubling, the route has been made less efficient by moving from a 50% of buses detouring via the airport in the late 1980s to about 90% of buses detouring - thus increasing the journey time by 10-30 minutes at a time when congestion is worsening. Also the route did not increase to take account of a larger population in the area.

13 service - originally a cross city route, was killed dead around 1997 when it was split into a northside only 13A and southside only 13B. 13B passenger numbers fell through the floor as many were starting their trip on the northside route and the route appears to have been run down since.

DB seem to suffer from very poor demand planning on many of the routes where population densities are changing - failing to take advantage of higher potential customer numbers, and ending up with a net fall as the service is perceived to be poor. In contrast Bus Eireann has dramatically improved some regional services.

seamus

shoegirl wrote:

As far as I recall they only ever really provided a Sun-Weds service around the Christmas holidays, also originally the service used to end at 3am? They only upgraded it to 4.30am a couple of years back.

Yep. The Sun-Wed service is only new. Clearly it's not viable - I've used it maybe twice, and you get at most 5 people on a bus. I don't see the problem with getting rid of something that a) Hasn't been around long (i.e. people don't depend on it) and b) isn't being used.

If Dublin Bus continued to run this at a loss, people would moan about it eating into our taxes :rolleyes:
****ing Irish, they're never happy.

cdebru

shoegirl wrote:

As far as I recall they only ever really provided a Sun-Weds service around the Christmas holidays, also originally the service used to end at 3am? They only upgraded it to 4.30am a couple of years back..

your recall is wrong a limited mon- weds service was operating for the last couple of years
sunday service never operated except sometimes over christmas and maybe paddys weekend

shoegirl wrote:

As for the bigger question of Dublin Bus profitability, to some extent DB has got itself into a vicious circle where routes are cutback and made less efficient or effective, or fail to upgrade routes in growing areas, they then start losing passengers as commuters find the service no longer meets their needs and move to private transport. So DB lose even more money, cutback the services further as demand appears to be dropping, and are rewarded by the commuting public with collapsing demand as users are no longer able to depend on a flimsy services.




Good examples of this are the 41 - despite the population of the area doubling, the route has been made less efficient by moving from a 50% of buses detouring via the airport in the late 1980s to about 90% of buses detouring - thus increasing the journey time by 10-30 minutes at a time when congestion is worsening. Also the route did not increase to take account of a larger population in the area.

13 service - originally a cross city route, was killed dead around 1997 when it was split into a northside only 13A and southside only 13B. 13B passenger numbers fell through the floor as many were starting their trip on the northside route and the route appears to have been run down since.

DB seem to suffer from very poor demand planning on many of the routes where population densities are changing - failing to take advantage of higher potential customer numbers, and ending up with a net fall as the service is perceived to be poor. In contrast Bus Eireann has dramatically improved some regional services.

DB hasn't got itself in to this situation the government and previous ministers have put it in to this situation
at the moment the dept of transport rarely give permission for new routes or route extensions
there is limited resources and basically were dublin bus wants to increase a service it has to take it from somewhere else this is obviously a far from ideal situation
also the government want DB to operate on a commercial basis which basically means if something cant pay its own way and is not a vital service then it goes so that resources can be concentrated elsewhere

hence you get decisions like this to end the element of the nitelink service that is not commercially viable

people need to decide now before it is too late if what they want is commercially viable based public transport companies competing against each other
or a proper public transport system operated on public service basis giving the best possible return for the money spent

if it is the first option get ready for more decisions like this as dublin bus gets itself more profitable and cuts more and more commercially unviable services
to prepare itself for competition

Flukey

Dublin Bus should provide a proper night service. Once again I was on the Nitelink on Friday night and on my way home the driver refused to let two men onto the more than half empty bus. Turning away willing and paying customers is not the way to runa profitable service. Given the low levels of traffic on the roads at that time, stopping to pick up passengers would not slow down the buses very much. They should also take passengers inbound. So if they want to make the Nitelink profitable, they should try someting radical: Let people use it!!!

pete

snapscan1212p wrote:

Here: http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/nitelink.asp

Click on your route number and you get all the stops at the end of the page

nah I had checked there already - that page just gives a pretty vague overview of the route & lists the outbound pickup points.

This is a problem with the 2 nitlelink routes I can use, as neither follow the same route as their daytime counterparts. My reason for asking was a full and frank exchange of views I had with a driver back in December after he completely bypassed our estate, claiming that the route had been changed. I hadn't used the service since then, but the driver last night drove into our estate.

I'd like to know which of them was right....

Anyway, back on topic - some form of 24 hour service is what's needed.

Dub13

AngelofFire wrote:

Dub13 you think that its ok to subject everything to the rules of economics.

No I dont and I never said I did.I am telling you that the Goverment want things this was not Dublin Bus,I am sure Dublin Bus would run the Nightlink Mon--Wen but they have to brake even these days.People moan that CIE dont make money but when they try to cut out some of the slack they are criticised for it.

SimonMaher

Just to clarify briefly and without getting involved in the debate of economics v social service. There are no plans to get rid of Nitelink services on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.

Pete

Dub13

Maybe the Mods/Admins could change the title of this post to save any confusion

Metrobest

The nitelink "service" is simply not cost-effective for many customers. If you are two people traveling to, say, Rathmines or Phibsborough, you're better off in a taxi.

For many people the nitelink is an essential service. What of all the late night staff in the city centre - are they supposed to pay €10-20 to get home at night? That's not on.

Rather than cut back the nitelink, DB should make it cheaper - €2 per ticket. Get bums on seats. And "regular" buses should start operating at 4am to pick up some of the more adventurous clubbers.

Dub13

Metrobest,

I agree with everything you said but the point I am trying to make is the Goverment are putting pressure on Dublin Bus to tighten its belt.Lets face the facts no matter who runs it no company is going to make money from a late night service Mon to Wen its just not going to happen.

Flukey

As I said already, if they provided a proper night service they could make money. There is no need to tighten belts. They bring 1000s of people into town all night and then abandon them there and put on a token service, that seems to be built on the premise that the only people going home are around Trinity College and from nowhere else and going home only means heading out from the city, not toward it. If they want to make money, then let them provide a proper night service.

Dub13

They are only cutting the Mon to Wen nightlinks,and if you seen the figures for these nights you would understand DB point.People do not use the nightlinks Mon to Wen,one driver a few weeks ago took in 44 euro for the whole night this may not have even paid for the diesel never mind his wages.

As I pointed out a few posts back the 746 is about to go 24 hour so DB are not given up on a night time buses.In this day and age if the numbers dont add up they will not run,simple onless the Gov heavily subside it.

chewy

they combined the 31n and the 29n a while back, they didn't tell anyone though, no replacement of signs on the busstop or anything people didn't know what the hell was happening?

couldn't they use single deckers or imps for nitelink sun to wednesday

surely the fuel costs etc would be lower and it lose less money...

GerardKeating

spacetweek wrote:

It's news to me too. I didn't even know there ever had been a Mon-Wed service.

which might explain the lack of patronage.

Time Magazine

http://www.darrenscully.ie/statements/dsp_Statement_details.cfm?Statement_Key=34

Good boy.

John R

chewy wrote:

they combined the 31n and the 29n a while back, they didn't tell anyone though, no replacement of signs on the busstop or anything people didn't know what the hell was happening?

couldn't they use single deckers or imps for nitelink sun to wednesday

surely the fuel costs etc would be lower and it lose less money...

The imp minibuses are gone bar a few for routes unsuitable for full size buses.

Single deckers are not much cheaper to run than double deckers.

chewy

but single deckers would be and look less empty! surely that fits into the economies somewhere...

even the slightest reduction in cost is worth it every penny counts

i said this yonks ago but why the gap between 11:30 and 12:30 ??? why? no reason?

if they had buses at 12:00 and 12:30 people could leave the pubs when they close rather then having to dash off at 11-ish to catch the last bus, it so rude ya know...:)

John R

chewy wrote:

but single deckers would be and look less empty! surely that fits into the economies somewhere...

even the slightest reduction in cost is worth it every penny counts

i said this yonks ago but why the gap between 11:30 and 12:30 ??? why? no reason?

if they had buses at 12:00 and 12:30 people could leave the pubs when they close rather then having to dash off at 11-ish to catch the last bus, it so rude ya know...:)

There is not the demand for the services they are running at the moment, how can more services be justified.
Even on thu/fri/sat the early nitelinks are regularly virtually empty.

The last time I got a nitelink, on a Friday night in mid Jan there were 4 people on the whole bus (00.50 46N) and several others departing at that time were similarly vacant.

atlantean

AlienGav wrote:

It's Dublin Buss's private investors that are forcing them into ending the nightlink service :mad:

Private Investors? Who the hell are they? :eek:

cdebru

atlantean wrote:

Private Investors? Who the hell are they? :eek:

they don't have any dublin bus is a part of cie and wholly owned by the state

cdebru

chewy wrote:

but single deckers would be and look less empty! surely that fits into the economies somewhere...

even the slightest reduction in cost is worth it every penny counts

i said this yonks ago but why the gap between 11:30 and 12:30 ??? why? no reason?

if they had buses at 12:00 and 12:30 people could leave the pubs when they close rather then having to dash off at 11-ish to catch the last bus, it so rude ya know...:)

how in the name of jaysus would a bus looking less empty be more economical

gap between 1130 and 1230

1 no real demand
2 staff finishing one duty before starting another

Flukey

There is a demand between 11:30 and 12:30. There are people on the streets at that time, many coming out of the pubs or other places or whatever. The Nitelink doesn't make money because it refuses to take passengers. It should run more like a normal service taking passengers on at any stop and bringing passengers towards town. It is hardly going to work if it only takes people on at a few stops around Trinity and then one or two more as they head out. The vast majority of the travelling public at night are not near Trinity College. There is a high demand for taxis because people think there are no buses. The buses are empty because they won't let passengers on. If they ran a proper service, in the normal way then people would use them.

Traffic

I dont understand the point Darren Scully is trying to make here re. nitelink services:
'they are telling Dublin Bus to get creative and secure buses by shutting down existing routes, such as the Kildare Nitelink service, which are well used and badly needed by Kildare commuters'

How would shutting down of the kildare nitelink services free up buses, as the vast majority of the fleet are all tucked up in bed when the nitelink services are being operated

Is this the same guy who came out with the suggestion to build another west link bridge in order to give motorists a 'choice'?

ClareBear

Thinking of cutting the Nitelink to Maynooth?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! :eek: There goes my social life when college closes if that goes ahead.

I don't understand if he (Darren Scully) means the Nitelink to Kildare is underthreat entirely or if it's just the weekday ones....?

John R

Traffic wrote:

I dont understand the point Darren Scully is trying to make here re. nitelink services:

"Look at me I am a champion of the people so I am" would seem to be it. The unsubtle art of bandwagon jumping.

John R

ClareBear wrote:

Thinking of cutting the Nitelink to Maynooth?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! :eek: There goes my social life when college closes if that goes ahead.

I don't understand if he (Darren Scully) means the Nitelink to Kildare is underthreat entirely or if it's just the weekday ones....?

It would seem that they are looking at cutting all the Monday-Wednesday services, nothing specifically targeted at Kildare services.
Suggesting that it is affecting only one small area is just your typical politicial constiuency-centric statement designed to rile up voters against the atrocities being commited against THEM personally and drum up support for the crusading politician.

ClareBear

John R wrote:

It would seem that they are looking at cutting all the Monday-Wednesday services, nothing specifically targeted at Kildare services.
Suggesting that it is affecting only one small area is just your typical politicial constiuency-centric statement designed to rile up voters against the atrocities being commited against THEM personally and drum up support for the crusading politician.

I hope so....or else Clare Bear will be dishing out slaps! :mad:

Metrobest

Has Dublin Bus forgotten who pays its wages? It's citizens like ClareBear. There is a clear need for the nitelink. Public Transport is already useless enough as it is, without shutting it down entirely during the night.

If DB shuts down the weekday nitelink, the company will attract a lot of poisonous enemies. And the sting in the tail will be rapid privatisation.

Dub13

Metrobest wrote:

Has Dublin Bus forgotten who pays its wages? It's citizens like ClareBear. There is a clear need for the nitelink. Public Transport is already useless enough as it is, without shutting it down entirely during the night.

If DB shuts down the weekday nitelink, the company will attract a lot of poisonous enemies. And the sting in the tail will be rapid privatisation.

If only life were so simple.... :rolleyes:

I think your forget that the Government owen Dublin Bus and they have told them to make money this year or else

Victor

Metrobest wrote:

Has Dublin Bus forgotten who pays its wages? It's citizens like ClareBear. There is a clear need for the nitelink. Public Transport is already useless enough as it is, without shutting it down entirely during the night.

However if the service isn't being used ....

Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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Iób

Solitaryman666 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Unfortunately the service they are there to provide in the eyes of the decision-makers is not the service of getting people from A to B. It is the service of reducing demand on the roads, so that the decision-makers don't have to sit in traffic jams. All public transport investment in Dublin is justified by the impact it will have on road traffic. Sad but true.

This is the reason that the economically superior Ballymun Luas was dropped in favour of the Dundrum luas.

The promise to put in the Ballymun line straight off when the others were done was of course forgotten.