Breakthrough in Northern bank job?

ionapaul

Just heard on radio that one of the people arrested in Cork today on suspicion of money laundering and in possession of millions in sterling and £60,000 in Northern bank notes is a SF member. Anyone got more on this?

Frank Grimes

There's some more here: http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/02/17/story189817.html

rovers_runner

Its all over now for the shinners.

Time for Gerry to get the 'cuffs.
Pretty convenient he happens to be in Spain at the moment.
:mad:

ionapaul

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0217/cork.html

Hope we don't get any more of 'the failed politics of condemnation' on the board...:P

Sand

No one is convicted yet. And there is still the opt out from reality for those who want to believe Adams until he himself is arrested and convicted.

Still, couldnt happen to a nicer bunch.

Keano_sli

Should be a treat to see the faces on which ever Sinn Fein luminaries appear on the News tonight to comment. That is if any of them can still appear on camera and lie throught their teeth any more.
Maybe Gerry knew what was coming and that might explain his apparent backtracking comment in Spain yesterday.

Villain

Due process??

Keano_sli

Due process like the IRA gave Jean McConville you mean

Meh

irish1 wrote:

Due process??

Would you be the same irish1 who's accusing the government of theft in the nursing home thread, when they haven't been convicted of anything either? So I don't think you're interested in "due process", I think you're interested in defending Sinn Fein.

Xterminator

irish1 wrote:

Due process??

Money recovered! It should be simple to see if its the same money as was taken, and if so ... case closed.

All the bull**** in the world wont sweep this one under the rug.

Of course i expect it was planted by British intelligence!

X

Quote from breaking news
"
Earlier gardaí recovered a reported £2m (€2.89m) in the Cork raid. Gardaí said they raided another property in Dublin, where they arrested three men and seized at least £60,000 (€86,
000). "

Villain

Meh wrote:

Would you be the same irish1 who's accusing the government of theft in the nursing home thread, when they haven't been convicted of anything either? So I don't think you're interested in "due process", I think you're interested in defending Sinn Fein.

If you actually bothered to read my posts you would see what I'm basing my arguments on, e.g. supreme court ruling.

I have not tried to defend anyone, I simply asked for due process.

ishmael whale

I take it as the money has no family, we should just pass on what we know to any person of respect. For example:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/A/alig/clip.html

Time Magazine

Surely it's the bank's property?! Unless insurance has been paid of course, in which case it's probably the insurance company's.

That reminded me of the Shinner who told me you're not taking anyone's money if you rob a bank.

A Dub in Glasgo

Angry Banana wrote:

That reminded me of the Shinner who told me you're not taking anyone's money if you rob a bank.

Speaking purely about the monetary aspect, it reminded me of someone who said that you're not taking anyone's money if you commit tax fraud.

A Dub in Glasgo

Let us see how this pans out and who the SF politician is and what he will be charged with and will he be convicted

Poker_Peter

If this is true then SF have lost all credibility and I really cannot see now what excuses anyone can have for voting for them. They make FF look like saints tbh.

mike65

Of course i expect it was planted by British intelligence!

Mike.

ReefBreak

Will the Shinner-heads on this board continue to support a bunch of politicians associated with murderers, thieves and terrorists if this new development shows up links with Sinn Féin?

Sand

Will the Shinner-heads on this board continue to support a bunch of politicians associated with murderers, thieves and terrorists if this new development shows up links with Sinn Féin?

Those who dont care that SF/IRA are one and the same wont care about this either. Their denials are purely for the benefit of electoral mandate.

Those who refuse to believe SF/IRA are one and the same will gratefully lap up any exscuse Adams and Co throws out.

So the short answer would be yes, they will.

I wouldnt be surprised, if this SF politician is convicted and if more SF figures are arrested, that they are disowned by SF/IRA and forced - through threats against their families - to go along with the story of some unauthorised splinter group pulling the wool over the eyes of Adams and McGuinness who will surely be beatified someday. And I doubt charges will be brought against any of the real honchos in SF/IRA as it could A) damage the sacred peace proccess if the moderates - and sadly these are the moderate IRA guys - are taken out, and Be seen as more useful to use as leverage to demand Adams and Co sign up to a deal or face jail.

But - and this is the big but - no one has been convicted yet. SF/IRA have got the first of the arrests they have been demanding, and there probably will be more. The best thing about this is that the PNSI and the Gardai wouldnt launch these arrests without being absolutely 100% sure they can nail the charges. So hopefully they wont have jumped the gun.

Queen Camilla

I expect the SF vote to collapse as a result of this. The question then will be: where will the former SF'ers go?

A Dub in Glasgo

Sand wrote:

I wouldnt be surprised, if this SF politician is convicted and if more SF figures are arrested, that they are disowned by SF/IRA and forced - through threats against their families - to go along with the story of some unauthorised splinter group pulling the wool over the eyes of Adams and McGuinness who will surely be beatified someday.

.

You are the other face of the same coin to those people who will claim that the British securocrats have planted this story and the Gardai have just arrested people for the effect.

Sand

You are the other face of the same coin to those people who will claim that the British securocrats have planted this story and the Gardai have just arrested people for the effect.

Well, SF/IRA arent afraid to cut people loose when they become a PR liability are they? Youre on your own wasnt it?

Villain

If it is proven that several members of SF were knowingly involved in the northern bank robbery or in the laudering of money from the robbery I will be forced to consider who I vote for in the future. I will not stand by and support members involved in criminality. But I will also not jump to conclusions.

AmenToThat

ReefBreak wrote:

Will the Shinner-heads on this board continue to support a bunch of politicians associated with murderers, thieves and terrorists if this new development shows up links with Sinn Féin?

Was anybody murdered in the bank robbery?
If Sinn Fein members were involved then yes they are theives and should be treated in the same way as gardai or poloticians who have been convicted recently of criminal behaviour.

So if some SF members were involved then all are guilty by association?
Assuming this is the case then I presume the same applies to FF and the Gardai if some of its members get upto no good?

BuffyBot

Interesting development. It'll certainly be interesting to see how this pans out..

mike65

From RTE

Adams clarifies Madrid remarks

17 February 2005 13:45

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has said remarks he made yesterday during a radio interview in Madrid about the Northern Bank robbery before Christmas have been misrepresented.

He said he had made it clear that he believed the IRA when it said it was not involved.

He said any other interpretation of his remarks was mischievous and misleading.


During the interview, in which his remarks were translated into Spanish by an interpreter, Mr Adams also used the phrase 'Maybe I'm wrong' before repeating that he believed the IRA.

[url=Adams does'nt do slips of the tongue...;)

Mike.

mike65

Slightly OT but on UTV tonight 22.30 (?) there is a politcial gab-fest which features Gerry Kelly and Eamon O Cuiv amoung others..should be fun.

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

Is this a change of programming as the UTV listing do not show it

http://www.u.tv/tvlistings/

ishmael whale

I take it we can expect the usual Comical Ali denials from SF. But there has to be major fallout from this. Its hard to see Mary Lou holding onto the euro seat next time out.

Zombrex

RTE News -

It is understood that a former Sinn Féin elected representative is among those arrested.
...
The Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny, has said the arrest of seven people and the reported involvement of a member of Sinn Féin 'raises grave questions for that party
...
Mr Rabbitte said it was of extreme concern that the garda operation was specifically directed at IRA money laundering.

To put it mildly, Sinn Fein are f**ked

Oh course is anyone apart from rabid Sinn Fein supporters actually surprised by this? I believed Bertie when he said the IRA were behind this. I believed him when he said that Sinn Fein knew about it. I didn't believe him because it was coming from FF (or "da shower of ****" as they are known around here) but because it was coming from Garda and Army Intelligence, and we actually have pretty good intelligence services for our small little country afaik

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

So if some SF members were involved then all are guilty by association?Assuming this is the case then I presume the same applies to FF and the Gardai if some of its members get upto no good?

A few points.

1) If the IRA did this, and it looks more and more like they did, or at least sanctioned members of the IRA to do it, then they have lost all credibility by saying they didn't do it.

2) If 1 is true then Sinn Fein look like idiots for saying they believe the IRA. That is assuming SF didn't know about it.

3) If members of Sinn Fein the party were involved then SF not only look like idiots but also it brings serious questions onto SF that their members were involved in illegal operations. The big question is whether or not senior members of SF knew this was happening. The government said they did. If so, then questions about the entire party and their commitment to democracy have to be asked.

mike65

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Is this a change of programming as the UTV listing do not show it

http://www.u.tv/tvlistings/

Sorry I was given duff info! BBC has Lets Talk on a 22.30 though so I expect it'll be covered there.

Mike.

Zombrex

mike65 wrote:

Sorry I was given duff info! BBC has Lets Talk on a 22.30 though so I expect it'll be covered there.

Mike.

Ah it is going to clash with west wing ... doh!

Do I watch fictional political drama with totally unrealisticly attrative people, or real political drama with far to realisticly ugly people. (not that Gerry's beard isn't lovely)

I supposed the next thing is one of the arrested men will say he was only acting on orders and should be released part of the GFA.

AmenToThat

Wicknight wrote:

A few points.

1) If the IRA did this, and it looks more and more like they did, or at least sanctioned members of the IRA to do it, then they have lost all credibility by saying they didn't do it.

Yes it does for the IRA, but I was talking about SF in reference to Reefs question

Wicknight wrote:

2) If 1 is true then Sinn Fein look like idiots for saying they believe the IRA. That is assuming SF didn't know about it.

Nwesflash! Politicians are made to look like gob****es :rolleyes:

Wicknight wrote:

3) If members of Sinn Fein the party were involved then SF not only look like idiots but also it brings serious questions onto SF that their members were involved in illegal operations.

Seems(for now like it was one SF member from cork maybe another from Derry(?) far lower percentage than is involved in yer average FF brown envelope scandal

Wicknight wrote:

The big question is whether or not senior members of SF knew this was happening. The government said they did.

Ahhhhhhh the good auld government........must be true then!

cdebru

Wicknight wrote:

Ah it is going to clash with west wing ... doh!

Do I watch fictional political drama with totally unrealisticly attrative people, or real political drama with far to realisticly ugly people. (not that Gerry's beard isn't lovely)

I supposed the next thing is one of the arrested men will say he was only acting on orders and should be released part of the GFA.

the GFA doesn't come into affect for anyone convicted in relation to this or the murder of robert mccarthy

if and I m not jumping to conclusions but it would be hard to explain away 2.3 million sterling even if it is not from the northern bank
every one who has voted for sinn fein will have to asess their explanation and the believeability of any explanation and wether the party can be supported into the future

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

Nwesflash! Politicians are made to look like gob****es :rolleyes:

Yeah, and when they are you don't vote for them. Especially when the are made to look like idiots when dealing with the one thing they claim to be able to do that no one else can, ie communication with the IRA.

I would be very surprised if SF don't lose a load of votes because of this, even if it is shown the they honestly didn't know the IRA did this (which looks doubtful)

AmenToThat wrote:

Seems(for now like it was one SF member from cork maybe another from Derry(?) far lower percentage than is involved in yer average FF brown envelope scandal

And yesterday it "seemed" like SF had nothing to do with it. Wonder what tomorrow will bring?

AmenToThat wrote:

Ahhhhhhh the good auld government........must be true then!

Well when my government, my army and my police force tell me something, and Sinn Fein tell me something else, who do you think I am going to believe :rolleyes:

AmenToThat

cdebru wrote:

every one who has voted for sinn fein will have to asess their explanation and the believeability of any explanation and wether the party can be supported into the future

One SF member from Cork has been arrested, not convicted mind you simply arrested so why the hell would I feel the need to asess my reasons for voting SF?
Seems like a very odd statement to make to me.

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

One SF member from Cork has been arrested, not convicted mind you simply arrested so why the hell would I feel the need to asess my reasons for voting SF?
Seems like a very odd statement to make to me.

Well at the very least, senior part members don't know that lower level party members are robbing banks with the IRA. I think that would be a reason to re-assess your views in of itself

But, and I think we all know this, it is very unlikely that that is where this is going to end.

AmenToThat

Wicknight wrote:

Well at the very least, senior part members don't know that lower level party members are robbing banks with the IRA. I think that would be a reason to re-assess your views in of itself

O, I see, so informtaion has come to light that this individual was actually involved in the robbery, went into the bank with a gun and intimidated staff without the knowledge of the SF leadership!
Well that really is damning informtation I must admit.

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

O, I see, so informtaion has come to light that this individual was actually involved in the robbery, went into the bank with a gun and intimidated staff without the knowledge of the SF leadership!
Well that really is damning informtation I must admit.

Yeah, if he didn't actually go into the bank and wave a gun around then he hasn't committed a crime ... suppose the get away driver should just be given a parking fine as well :rolleyes:

Oh and I never said information has come to light that the SF leadership didn't know about it. And I don't suspect I will ever have to say that .. if you know what I mean

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

AmenToThat

Wicknight wrote:

Yeah, if he didn't actually go into the bank and wave a gun around then he hasn't committed a crime

Agreed, untill he is convicted in court he is an innocent man.

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

If it is proven that several members of SF were knowingly involved in the northern bank robbery or in the laudering of money from the robbery I will be forced to consider who I vote for in the future. I will not stand by and support members involved in criminality. But I will also not jump to conclusions.

Someone recently pointed out to me the correct spelling of schadenfreuden

AmenToThat

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

And he hasnt been convicted yet of involvement in the bank robbery.

Look, the day the job was done I said I believed it was an element of the provos and I still believe it was.
I do not however believe that it was sanctioned by the army council of the IRA or that the SF leadership knew about it nor do I believe the involvement of one SF member (possibly two) means that all must be condemned which is the fascist stance being taken on this board by several of the contributers.

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

Agreed, untill he is convicted in court he is an innocent man.

Very true. And he should get a fair trial. A trial I am sure Sinn Fein are shaking in their boots about.

It is still going to seriously damage Sinn Fein, who have basically destroyed any idea that NI will have a shared government for the for seeable future.

As I said before... Sinn Fien are f**ked.

AmenToThat

Wicknight wrote:

As I said before... Sinn Fien are f**ked.

Judging by the scandals that FF have been involved in over the years I doubt it

Zombrex

AmenToThat wrote:

Judging by the scandals that FF have been involved in over the years I doubt it

Well last time I checked FF weren't running a private army :rolleyes:

And I think FF were very badly damaged by the scandals of resent times. Considering this is a hundred times worse than that, I would say SF are in serious trouble. And nothing has even be proven yet. Wait until we find how high up SF this goes. I wouldn't be surprised if we soon get senior SF members resigning.

AmenToThat

Wicknight wrote:

Well last time I checked FF weren't running a private army :rolleyes:

And I think FF were very badly damaged by the scandals of resent times. Considering this is a hundred times worse than that, I would say SF are in serious trouble. And nothing has even be proven yet. Wait until we find how high up SF this goes. I wouldn't be surprised if we soon get senior SF members resigning.

Yes its going to be fun fun fun.
The republican movement splinters chaos reigns everbodies happy! :rolleyes:

I really dont think youv fully thought through the ramifications of SF or the Provos splintering, or maybe you have?
Maybe you could share with me how you see things panning out in the near to medium term assuming what your hoping for happens.

mycroft

AmenToThat wrote:

Yes its going to be fun fun fun.
The republican movement splinters chaos reigns everbodies happy! :rolleyes:

I really dont think youv fully thought through the ramifications of SF or the Provos splintering, or maybe you have?
Maybe you could share with me how you see things panning out in the near to medium term assuming what your hoping for happens.

Well for starts I suspect the SDLP are going to start dancing a jig.

This won't lead to an escaltion of violence, the weekus horriblus (to misquote the british queen) has exposed to the IRA that they cannot count on communties for unequivable support, therefore erroding their base. the fact that as it now beyonds apparent SF members were engaged in criminal activity will to my mind lead to a the rebirth of the SDLP, and a possible split in SF between hardliners and the political wing.

Meanwhile in the south it will damage SF credibility in the next GE, and in my mind destroys sinn fein's base.

I think(hope) this is the beginning og the end of SF and a start to a genuine peace movement without the dogma of people like FTA69.

About bloody time.

Villain

mycroft wrote:

Someone recently pointed out to me the correct spelling of schadenfreuden

I believe they were wrong it's schadenfreude i.e. no "n". But I doubt that will take any of the pleasure away :-)

Villain

mycroft wrote:

Well for starts I suspect the SDLP are going to start dancing a jig.

This won't lead to an escaltion of violence, the weekus horriblus (to misquote the british queen) has exposed to the IRA that they cannot count on communties for unequivable support, therefore erroding their base. the fact that as it now beyonds apparent SF members were engaged in criminal activity will to my mind lead to a the rebirth of the SDLP, and a possible split in SF between hardliners and the political wing.

Meanwhile in the south it will damage SF credibility in the next GE, and in my mind destroys sinn fein's base.

I think(hope) this is the beginning og the end of SF and a start to a genuine peace movement without the dogma of people like FTA69.

About bloody time.

Well the problem there is if you exclude Sinn Fein from the peace process your excluding the majority of nationalists, and without them you will never get an agreement, but others will probably argue with them you'l never get an agreement, catch 22 isn't it.