Advise

STaN

I've been stepping up my fitness training in the last few months, cycling to work most days. Until my bike was robbed, so i jogged for 30mins to/from work 3 days a week.

I'm going to be starting in a gym in a months time, and hoping to build up my torso as my legs are already pretty strong.

I dont want to get too big, nothing more than a firm upper body (pecks, arms, chest and no spair tire!).

Do i need to take protien for this type of fitness training. Any advise on fitting a diet into this would be greatly appretiated. What to eat during a workout like that.

Here was what i was thinking as a good routine:

1.
Cycle into gym for 7.30.
Go for a 45min fairly intense swim. Shower, work.

2.
I have a target at least 40mins between 120 and 180bpm of cardio 4 times a week.. (so lunch time cardio workout) 1-2pm.

3.
And 3 times a week doing weight training and a workout for my abs area after work/weekend. With at least a days rest between the weight training days.

AARRRGH

Don't worry about "getting too big". It takes quite a while to get too big

If you have a belly there is no point doing crunches. Your stomach muscles will just get larger and push the fat on your belly out even more, making you look fatter. Doing crunches does not make the fat on your belly move, only cardio can do that!

I'm a bit of a gym freak so this is what I'd recommend -

Do your cardio after your weight training as you need to keep your energy for the weights.
Doing too much cardio will just eat away at your muscles.
Eat as much protein as possible, including supplements. I eat creatine, and I find it is good (if you start taking this, double the amount of water you normally drink and cut out caffeine.)
Take one week off every three weeks (i.e. no weights, or at least much lighter than normal.) This may sound crazy, but it works. You'll find after the weeks rest your body will be fully recovered and you'll be stronger than before.

Remember, there is no point doing weights if you don't eat lots of protein. Also, there is no point doing weights if you are doing too much cardio.

If I can think of anything else I'll post later...

STaN

Well i have a flat belly, just a little extra on the hips i'm 21, 5 11" and 12st 4lbs and not much upper body muscle.

I have a routine for my abs for 4 days a week.

I've very broad shoulders from swimming a few years ago. So i have a wide build.

Am i too optimistic thinking that i can manage a swim 3 days before work, spend 3/4 lunches doing cardio and doing weights 2 evenings and 1 weekend?

I live/work within 5mins of the gym

AARRRGH

Well, only you know how good you are at seeing things through It does sound like you are taking on a lot though.

I also live 5 mins from my gym (jackie skelly in town) and it makes life so easy!

Transform

Remember, there is no point doing weights if you don't eat lots of protein. Also, there is no point doing weights if you are doing too much cardio.

Good advise up until the end - you alllllmost made it!
If its a waste of time doing weights without lots of protein then i don't know how i have managed to keep a 5% body fat at 80kg and lift well within my weight for the last few years eating low amounts of 'normal' protein sources.
I don't find i need to eat lots of protein to gain muscle, a little yes but you do not need to be wolfing the meat, eggs and tuna down - all that gave me in the past is a stuffed up colon.

STaN

dublindude wrote:

Well, only you know how good you are at seeing things through It does sound like you are taking on a lot though.

I also live 5 mins from my gym (jackie skelly in town) and it makes life so easy!

Well i live withing a 10minute cycle of the temple bar where my Gym and work is (or will be when it opens - Crunch).

So if any1 is looking for a gym buddy.

The main reason i have been doing cardio mainly cycling and jogging has been to loose weight, 12st was my target but at the same time i've build up my stamina and my leg muscles.

So maybe i should concentrate more on weights. Hmmm i think i should talk to a trainer.

AARRRGH

Transform wrote:

Remember, there is no point doing weights if you don't eat lots of protein. Also, there is no point doing weights if you are doing too much cardio.

Good advise up until the end - you alllllmost made it!
If its a waste of time doing weights without lots of protein then i don't know how i have managed to keep a 5% body fat at 80kg and lift well within my weight for the last few years eating low amounts of 'normal' protein sources.
I don't find i need to eat lots of protein to gain muscle, a little yes but you do not need to be wolfing the meat, eggs and tuna down - all that gave me in the past is a stuffed up colon.

The muscles need a lot of protein to grow. Sure, you can eat "normal" amounts of protein and make some gains, but you're wasting most of your time in the gym.

I don't know any bodybuilders/weightlifters who don't think eating large amounts of protein is not worthwhile.

I agree on the stuffed colon though A pain in the ass!

uum

you only need adequate amounts of protein a day. excess protein is stored as fat. fact.
you need lots of amino after training to repair damage done from lifting weights and growth.
dont do "it" just because everyone else does it.

AARRRGH

uum wrote:

you only need adequate amounts of protein a day. excess protein is stored as fat. fact.
you need lots of amino after training to repair damage done from lifting weights and growth.
dont do "it" just because everyone else does it.

But what is adequate protein? If you spend two hours lifting weights and don't eat enough protein, you are wasting your time.

I think I'd rather err on the side of too much rather than too little.

(PS protein = amino)
(PPS try telling the excess protein is stored as fat theory to the atkins people )

joc_06

Adequate protein is hard enough to measure depending on your specific goals, size, height, training etc but it should be approx 25% of your daily cal allowance.

Protein doesnt equal amino really. Protein is a polymer of about 20 different amino acids so in much the same way as a house doesnt equal a concrete block a protein doesnt equal an amino acid

I dont think the excess protein is stored as fat is a theory. Im pretty sure its fact. All Atkins does is lower and rearrange your cal allowance. As most food in dinners etc contain 65% carbs and this is natural recommended, he cuts out the carbs and so you have much more calories left in your allowance. To make sure you arent hungry he says fill up on protein.

I havnt explained that in the best english but anyway. Its a crazy diet. But then again when you live in a world with programs like the "swan" what can you do...

AARRRGH

OK, but if you read his original post - this guys does a massive amount of cardio. I don't think he should be worried about gaining fat from eating lots of protein. He should be more worred about his cardio eating up his muscles and burning off too many calories.

Also, when I say he should "eat a lot of protein" I am basing this on him lifting weights and needing to increase his protein intake. Of course, someone should not live on a high protein diet if they plan on sitting on their arse all day, but this guys wants to grow some muscles.

It's logical that he needs to eat lots of protein and possibly increase his calorie intake...

joc_06

Yes but the point is that is all part of a balanced diet. When i hear the word "Loads" in terms of diet or training i cringe.
You do need balance or else you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Much the same way as you need a split in training etc.
it should be 65 -25 - 10 . carbs - protein - fats. Anything else is detrimental

logic1

joc_06 wrote:

it should be 65 -25 - 10 . carbs - protein - fats. Anything else is detrimental

Bull****.

.logic.

joc_06

logic1 wrote:

Bull****.

.logic.

Please explain Logic?
Everything i've read says that. Obviously i meant approximately but im standing over my post.
Your daily cal allowance should be split 65 -25 -10.
What do you think?

Keep in mind that the FNB recommends this ratio give or take a few%.

logic1

joc_06 wrote:

Please explain Logic?
Everything i've read says that. Obviously i meant approximately but im standing over my post.

You stated that anything other than the ratio you gave is "detrimental". This is rubbish. You have to alter your macronutrient ration depending upon your goal at any given time during your training cycle.

Some people go for a bulk cut routine typically following 55:30:15 +-5 each way for the bulking part of their cycle and 40:40:20 during the cutting part of their diet.

Some rules are never go over 40% protein and never go over 20% fat. The amount of fat in the cutting part might seem strange in comparison to bulking but as has been said many times EFA are an essential componenet of weight loss but really the fat ratio you use depends on which line of thought you want to follow on fat partitioning and storage etc etc..

There should never be any reason you go below approx. 10% though.

Your daily cal allowance should be split 65 -25 -10.
What do you think?

Keep in mind that the FNB recommends this ratio give or take a few%.

I doubt the FNB take into account specific macro nutrient ratios for training dependant goals. I believe the FNB also oversees the standard RDA charts which recommend a paltry 0.36g per pound of bodyweight.

Research and practical application are the only ways to learn, never blindly follow one source.

.logic.

joc_06

Ya that makes sense to alter your diet according to your goals but for me my goals are to maintain my weight as is and so does STaN and thats why i quoted 65-25-10. So i meant detrimental in reference to STaN (which is what this thread is about) and not in the general case.
I Should've said that but 65-25-10 is the most common split imo