Screwed by a driving tester!

rymus

If you clicked on the thread title thinking this was going to be a "Slydice specials" moment, I'm sorry to disappoint. I just want to share my experiences. The motors forum may be a more appropriate place for this but as it happened in Cork and it's likely to happen to other Cork people, I thought I'd stick it in here.

I've had my category A license for almost 3 years and been driving for longer than that. Lets just get that out of the way for starters.

Did my category B test yesterday with blood boilingly annoying results. Naturally I got the tester who's known as the worst of the worst. Not going to mention any names yet because due process is processing. Did the theory and the newfangled technical checks without problem and went out onto the road from the temporary St. Finbarrs test centre. All seemed to be going well for me, I only clocked up 5 grade 2's total throughout the whole test. Pretty average result.

However, on the junction of Evergreen road and Curragh road there are nasty traffic lights. Lights I was warned about and brought through properly by my ISM certified driving instructor prior to the test. For anyone that doesn't know the lights, they're outside that big ugly church. I was told to turn right and so put on my indicator, having stopped at the red light. The green arrow that allows traffic to go straight ahead lit and the red stayed lit so I stayed put. There were about 5 vehicles behind me and as I sat at the red & green arrow filter light for up to a minute, nobody beeped or flashed me. The green arrow went out, as did the red and the full circular green came on at which point I turned right. I was given a grade 3 for not breaking a red light?!? Go figure!

When I came out of the test centre, my instructor was there and when I told him what happened, his head almost exploded. I've since been in contact with several other driving instructors, all of whom assured me that I was 100% correct.

Today I wrote a letter of complaint and will now have to wait until I get some results from that to know if I have to appeal in the court. Will the "old boys network" that no doubt exists in the testing centre win out? I'd be amazed if it didn't to be honest. Proving I'm right was never so difficult...

So anyone that's taking their test in Cork in the near future... you have been warned! There's a tester out there that doesn't know how to work traffic lights.

damien

Crapola.

I often thought it would be a good idea to start a site decidated to the test centre in Cork and the various routes that are taken and mark out areas were people get a mark against them. Course that would take time and I have none.

el Bastardo

And that's one of the reasons why we use driving instructors.

Recon

i'm sure those bastards of testers have to fail a certain % of people a day or some bull**** like that

iceman_2001_ie

My commiserations.

My belief is that some testers are in better form if they had been bumping uglies with their partner the night before. That or some bureaucratic policy of failing people in order to maintain 'standards'.

I have one question.
What's a Category A license?
I know a cat. B is for a normal car.

koneko

A lot of people post here about getting unfair treatment on the test, but can't come up with specific examples. Your case sounds pretty clear to me. I'd say you have grounds to appeal, I believe people have done it before, and some have been successful. Good luck! And I hope you get a good response back.

Blitzkrieger

Good luck with that. I swear the feckers have a quota to fill. Or else he's just a miserable old twit. I'd say I had the same guy for my first driving test - he failed me for not checking my mirrors before using my indicators. Muppet. If he said not checking my mirrors before making a turn it might have made sense.

rymus

iceman_2001_ie wrote:

I have one question.
What's a Category A license?

Cat A is for a motorbike over a certain engine size.

Thanks for all your support.. Since Monday I've driven past there about 10 or 11 times just to assure myself I'm not going mad/seeing things. I should have taken my video camera down there the other night to record the lights and the motorists using the junction but of course I forgot it. one thing thats worrying me at the moment is that the sequence of the lights seems to change of it's own accord. When I was there on Monday evening after the test it was red, red & green arrow, red, green circle. Now it seems to be red, red & green arrow, green arrow & green circle, red. Maybe it's just changing to suit traffic loads... or else I truly am losing my mind. Waiting for a call from a guy in the corporation about the light sequencing.

Called in to the two pubs down there a while ago to see if they have anything on their cctv... not a sausage. The only useful location had a power cut for most of early Monday afternoon while they were getting new stuff installed. Just my luck eh!

Nukem

Heart goes out to you it really does. Those fookers are just looking for an excuse to fail people.

The only thing he could have thought was you to pull into the middle of the junction and indicate to go right and wait for the signal to turn right-this would allow the cars behind you to move around you (left-Straight on)

But if it is one of those dodgy lights that goes arrow-red-green+arrow i would have lost the plot.

Hope all turns out well for you.

daveirl

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Seanie M

Not being from the area, but just a general query.

Would I be correct in assuming that when you had a red light for turning right, and the lane on your left was allowed to proceed straight ahead, that you also had oncoming traffic with right of way? Then, of course the tester is wrong!

Keep us posted of the responses to your complaints, I'm very curious now!

Seanie

NocturnalDonkey

If your appeal is successful, the best you can hope for is a resit of the test with a different tester, free of charge.

Our man in Havana

http://193.178.1.79/ZZA24Y1961S33.html

You can only appeal to a district court and they only have the power to order a free retest with another tester.

I would strongly discourage any correspondance with the testers or their employers.

Padraig Mor

daveirl wrote:

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Yep that guy is a prick! Had test last year; clutch went on car the night before the test so no test for me! Being a good little boy I went down to the test centre anyway (about an hr before my time) and waited to let him know I couldn't do test. When he eventually arrived (O'N surname, tall guy, moustache) he made out that I was making it up (why the hell would I??? I'd paid already!) and a few days later I got a letter regarding my 'failure to turn up' for the test!!!

galactus

Unbelievable! :mad:

- Letter to the Examiner, Indo and the Times*
- Letter to local TD
- Letter to Minister for Transport
- Give Prenderville a bell

etc.

* Hang on, scrub the Times (Myers boycott)

daveirl

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deRanged

daveirl wrote:

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I got a grade 2 for that in my test last october. If I'd tried it we'd have been in a crash for sure!

Dizzyblabla

see, if anyone is from the area, they would know that a few years back the arrow used to be for turning right, and the green light was to go straight. But then the eejit's went and changed it, so even when there's nothing coming down the hill or turning right up the hill from the Curragh Rd, you have to sit there and wait for the green light, which is a pain, and I've no idea how the instructor could have failed you on that (does not give me any bit of confidence now to apply for mine, I'll stick to the provisional for another while I think!)

Dizzy...

dudara

Makes me wonder if you can apply for your test and then state that you do not want a particular tester, any one else, but not that guy...

RicardoSmith

The've screwed the green filter lights all over the place. Its more dangerous now and often the pattern only repeats after two or three cycles. Crazy.

I still believe the testers have a quota as I see people being failed for no reasons at all. Lack of progress is the great catch all.

A friend took a day off work only to find out that they'd double booked the test. So she gave out yards to the guy at the desk. When she went to do her test guess who was testing her...yup the guy at the desk. Failed her on a whole bunch of stuff.

rymus

dudara wrote:

Makes me wonder if you can apply for your test and then state that you do not want a particular tester, any one else, but not that guy...

Well if things dont go my way and I'm forced to re-apply, that's exactly what I'll be doing. In the part of the application that says "Comments" or whatever I'm going to specifically request that this asshole doesnt test me again. I'm sure if anyone else did it they'd have to honour it aswell. When all this is over I'll give a name, just in case anyone else wants to avoid the rotten bastard

PowerHouseDan

I had the JON tester for mine, He doesnt give a crap, I had mine on a friday at 4- half four, anyway i was his last test of the day, Altogether my test lasted 10-12 min incl questions. He stopped me half was around reverse around corner, Did not make me do a hill start. I was out of the test centre 15 min after my start with my little greenish slip saying i Passed. So people have all the luck

mordeith

The testers are brutal all right. I did my test at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon. The tester took me up by the hospital and the traffic was brutal. She changed her mind about which way to go and gave me two Grade 3s for not changing lanes quick enough, even though the lane next to me was full of cars! I'd have had to side sweep someone to get in quicker. It seems you're screwed for careless driving and screwed for not taking chances! I was also never tested on reversing around the corner. In the end I got nine faults which is exactly what you need to fail. My instructor was also pis*ed off.
I complained in writing but as I expected I was told that the instructor could not 'remember the details of the test'. Surprise, surprise.

rymus

Ok where was I?

Right, part 3. Got a reply from my letter of complaint, the statement from the tester is as follows

"As applicant approached right turn at Turners Cross Church turning into Curragh Road, the green light was on*. He stopped and the green light remained on for approx 20 seconds after he stopping. He remained stopped until the full green light came on again**."

Holes in statement pointed out as follows;
* - The red light was on as I approached the lights. The green arrow pointing straight ahead only came on a few seconds after I had already stopped
** - Note the term "full green light". This term was not used in the previous description of the light turning green

Looks like I'm going to court

daveirl

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Our man in Havana

Sock it to them Rymus. Was that all that was said? Did it say see you in court?

rymus

That's pretty much it bond... there was the obligatory "if you wish to appeal the decision you must contact the courts clerk" blah blah blah at the end. Other than "see you in court", maybe at this stage it should say "see you on Jerry Springer"? It really is amazing how wrong something so seemingly simple can go.

pma-ire

The amount of people I've heard that failed there test over that junction :rolleyes:

They should just stay away from it. Unless they want you to fail


I passed mine last year thank god

solice

its a system. Its your word against a qualified tester. Unless you have the whole event on camera or have plenty of wittneses the judge i would imagine is going to side with the tester, now matter how much he/she is going to lie....
It will end up costing you alot more than if you were to resit the test.

Still though, if you feel you have something to prove then by all means and try to fight the system

rymus

ahh the plight of the downtrodden masses...

I could let it go, I could just reapply and resit the test. Who's to say the exact same thing wouldn't happen again? It probably will go against me and it probably will cost me alot of money but if it at least sets a precedent for the next time someone complains about the exact same thing with the exact same tester I'll be somewhat happy. You say "if you have something to prove" like I'm some renegade out to cause as much trouble as I can. If it happened to you would you just join the "ahh well, better luck next time" camp and move on knowing full well you were wronged?

I'll know better for my retest. Next time I'll make sure I have a video camera setup so I dont get ****ed around for the second time.

Our man in Havana

Are you still not going to appeal? I am dissapointed if you don't.

rymus

of course I'm going to appeal... I may not have a snowballs chance in hell, but I might as well try

Our man in Havana

rymus wrote:

of course I'm going to appeal... I may not have a snowballs chance in hell, but I might as well try

You only need to put a reasonable doubt into the mind of the judge to get the test result put aside and a retest free of charge.

solice

Bond-007 wrote:

You only need to put a reasonable doubt into the mind of the judge to get the test result put aside and a retest free of charge.

What kind of fantasy world are u living in?

Best of luck Rymus!

rymus

no fantasy world at all I can assure you.. I'm simply a born again optimist

solice

inspiring

shoegirl

rymus wrote:

I was told to turn right and so put on my indicator, having stopped at the red light. The green arrow that allows traffic to go straight ahead lit and the red stayed lit so I stayed put. There were about 5 vehicles behind me and as I sat at the red & green arrow filter light for up to a minute, nobody beeped or flashed me. The green arrow went out, as did the red and the full circular green came on at which point I turned right. I was given a grade 3 for not breaking a red light?!? Go figure!
....So anyone that's taking their test in Cork in the near future... you have been warned! There's a tester out there that doesn't know how to work traffic lights.

Perhaps that explains why at similar lights at the Bus Station on the quays and Turners Cross, about 60% of motorists routinely turn right even when the slip light is red, thus endangering the lives of the pedestrians on the pedestrian crossing who have the right of way. I just thought Cork drivers were the worst in Ireland and couldn't drive. Seems like the blind is leading the blind. You have a very definite case there.

But on that note why are Cork Corp and Councils persisting in building so many of these dangerous junctions to start with? I understand the the problem at the juntion in Turners Cross is that the road is so narrow, and that at the bus station delaying the traffic going straight would cause tailbacks, but surely its simple common sense to assume that if the light for going right is red, then you shouldn't turn right?

My suggestion is to use the traffic cameras that they have installed in London for people breaking red lights on these junctions and fine and penalty point offenders the same as a speeding offence. Literally hundreds would be caught in the initial few days and people would learn very fast to obey traffic lights.

I notice another common ploy in Cork is to ignore the lights altogether if there is nobody else at the junction, and to drive straight through the red light. This is a bad habit rather than dangerous, but its very common. I've seen it on the Little Island flyover - people literally ignoring the red light when coming from the Glountohane side - even where there is incoming traffic with the green light indicating right with the right of way.

Stark

Oh by the way, did you get back a copy of your test sheet?

Under which category was your Grade 3 fault marked?

rymus

progress at traffic lights & yes I have the test sheet

Our man in Havana

Any idea when you are up in court about it yet?

vector

My test is coming up.

I might have to do the "rymus junction". What if I say, in a casual way, outloud something like "I see the green light for ahead, but for my turning right the light is red" The whole talking outloud thing is what you do during advanced driving aparently

Further, to avoid any other problems what if I record the test, wireless camera stuck onto windscreen facing the road, above mirror where it cant be seen, video only, not audio cos that would be illegal

Our man in Havana

You would have to tell the tester and most probably he would refuse to take you out.

rymus

If like me you find yourself sitting at a green arrow waiting to turn, I'd actually point out why youre sitting there to the tester just to make sure they don't think you're sitting at a green light cos youre an idiot.

Then again, if the tester is an idiot (and hopefully you wont get the same guy I got) theres very little you can do. It all hinges on the testers ability to work out exactly how traffic lights work.

I'd be very wary of recording, as bond said you'd have to tell the tester your reasons for recording the test and they could just refuse to go out, net loss to you - €40. I think theres an option for your driving instructor to sit in on the test with you but I'm not sure if thats available yet. Overheard a few testers talking about it not so long ago. Best of luck with the test.

vector

I was suggesting recording

- the traffic outside (not the inside of the car!)
- video only (because audio recording without consent is likely covered with anit-telephone tapping law)