Real effects of supplements ?

ZENER

I've been advised by the instructor in the gym I go to to use supplements to help burn fat around my stomach that seem sto be stubbornly hanging on despite daily excercise and a strict diet.
The products he's recommended are:

Milk Thistle Complex Acetyl-L-Carnitine Ginseg Tea with Ginger Green Tea

Has anybody had any experience of these that can comment on their effectiveness. My body fat is down to about 12.5% at the moment and it would be nice if I could achieve 10 or 11%. I'm 41 years old in case thats relavent.

I'm not looking for a quick out here, I just want to be sure that the effects of these substances are not short lived and won't cause other problems. I do about 2 hours gym work 6 days a week for the past 5 months and have managed to decrease body fat from about 23%.

Thanks in advance !!

ZEN

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ZENER

Thanks for that daveirl !! I've been told/read that stubborn fat can be the result of kidney function and the inability of the body to use some types of fat (alpha I think ?!) The milk thistle is to clean out the kidneys and make them more efficient I believe and the green tea is supposed to increase the metabolism both of which are supposed to aid burning this stubborn fat !?

ZEN

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RonanC

Congrats on your achievements in reducing your BF%. In terms of the supplements you were advised on, I'd like to offer you some suggestions and advice purely in terms of fat loss.

Milk Thistle Complex- this is a liver protectant and is generally used to minimise damage to the liver from steriods, methylated compounds, etc. It can also be beneficial in cases of alcohol abuse. It is useful from a general health point of view, but will have little impact on assisting fat loss.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine - ALCAR plays an important role in the transfer and utilization of long-chain fatty acids which are then subjected to beta-oxidation for the production of energy. I would say take 2g daily.

Ginseng Tea with Ginger - more of a mood enhancer than anything else so no use for your needs

Green Tea - very beneficial supplement for fat loss in terms of increasing thermogenesis. Beware of low dosed products (in terms of EGCG's you need at least 50%) though. PrimaForce do the best product on the market called Lean Green.

The green tea and ALCAR would be your best two choices of the list you were given. R-ALA and especially Synephrine would make nice additions to this stack instead of the other two.

One of the most efficient fat loss products you can get is nicotine gum believe it or not. It is not addictive (due to differing delivery of the nicotine relative to cigarettes) and has been found to significantly increase metabolism while supressing appetite at the same time.

Knifey_Spoony

Nicotine gum!?!? Really?
Well done on getting your body fat down Zener, thats some achievement! Im currently about 6 lbs away from my goal weight but found out that my body fat percentage is 35% !!!! Gonna havta get my ass in gear to get it down.

Magic Monkey

RonanC wrote:

One of the most efficient fat loss products you can get is nicotine gum believe it or not. It is not addictive (due to differing delivery of the nicotine relative to cigarettes) and has been found to significantly increase metabolism while supressing appetite at the same time.

This study says caffeine can double its effects, too, but another study says "that oral caffeine maintenance can potentiate the reinforcing and stimulant subjective effects of nicotine." Maybe to shed those last few pounds stacking the two has merit.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ZENER

This is great info guys and just what I was hoping for. RonanC, you obviously have a background in this field, the milk thistle was recommended as it cleans the kidneys . . obviously a bum steer or more likely I picked it up wrong ! Does it have any benefits from the point of view of making the body a little bit more efficient at converting fat into energy ? I don't believe the guy who gave me this info could be that far out although he is not a doctor but well educated from a nutrition POV.

Blinky, If you're 6lb from your target weight then there is no way you could have 35%BF, at least not unless you were a cat weighing maybe 2 stones !!! That said 6 lb is a very good achievment and I doubt if I would be that fusy about losing such a relatively small amount considering where I've come from. How are you measuring your BF% by the way ?

Daveirl, yeah little and often seems to be what the doctor ordered with regards to food, and it also makes me feel a bit better because I don't have that bloated feeling I normally get after a big meal so good for the confidence I think. I keep plenty of fruit to hand and those lovely bags of fresh unfrozen garden peas that Tescos sell.

I actually heard of the link between nicotine and caffiene before and that someone giving up smoking should cut down coffee intake because of the way they interact in the body . . would this be true ? I think it contributed to my success at kicking the weed because I used to be a heavy smoker and coffee drinker.

Thanks again guys for the info, any other tips/tricks are appreciated.

ZEN

uberwolf

don't know how effective their products are, but I recognise some of the names from their products. If you are interested have a look at www.maximuscle.com there's an awful lot of hype and unsurprisingly you'll see nothing negative written. But if you're interested I can get their products at trade price - cos they're expensive otherwise

RonanC

ZENER wrote:

This is great info guys and just what I was hoping for. RonanC, you obviously have a background in this field, the milk thistle was recommended as it cleans the kidneys . . obviously a bum steer or more likely I picked it up wrong ! Does it have any benefits from the point of view of making the body a little bit more efficient at converting fat into energy ? I don't believe the guy who gave me this info could be that far out although he is not a doctor but well educated from a nutrition POV.

ZEN

In a word, no. Have a read here for a more in depth look at milk thistle.

Also, given that you have managed to drop such a large amount of BF, it is possible that you have hit a 'plateau' in terms of shedding those last few pounds. Rather than look to supplements for assistance, have you considered (in terms of your diet) carb cycling and/or (in terms of training) 'clean cardio' or HIIT?

Knifey_Spoony

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Oh.
I must've got it toally wrong then. Whats a healthy BF% then? I could've sworn he said "your 35% but ?? - 33% is healthy". Perhaps he said 25% and said up to 22% ish is healthy? It was one of those machines you stand on bare foot and it sends things through your body to measure the percentage.

Chucky the tree

over 32 is obese for women. He msut of said 25%, that is acceptable. Under 25% will usually mean a good level of fitness.

Easygainer

ZENER wrote:

I've been advised by the instructor in the gym I go to to use supplements to help burn fat around my stomach that seem sto be stubbornly hanging on despite daily excercise and a strict diet.
The products he's recommended are:

Milk Thistle Complex Acetyl-L-Carnitine Ginseg Tea with Ginger Green Tea

Has anybody had any experience of these that can comment on their effectiveness. My body fat is down to about 12.5% at the moment and it would be nice if I could achieve 10 or 11%. I'm 41 years old in case thats relavent.

I'm not looking for a quick out here, I just want to be sure that the effects of these substances are not short lived and won't cause other problems. I do about 2 hours gym work 6 days a week for the past 5 months and have managed to decrease body fat from about 23%.

Thanks in advance !!

ZEN

You're paying too much for an ineffective fat burning combo. Milk Thistle is only good to clean out the liver so I don't even know why he put it there. The best fat burners are as follows:

ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin) - banned for stupid reasons
Clenbuterol (in inhalers) - hard to get w/o prescription for no reason
T3 (cytomel) - increases metabolism to ridiculous rates but only available from dodgy docs or dealers! (unless you're obese)

With this in mind, unless you wanna break these stupid laws you'll need to look elsewhere to accomplish your fat burning goals. I suggest changing the diet (possibly carb cycling, ask the PT about this and post back what he says, I could email you a link to a page on it), cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with some caffeine pills (if you want to preserve muscle at all costs take a protein shake with some glutamine 30 mins before) and that's it - this, followed correctly and persistently, would get you to less than 10% bf eventually.

RonanC

Easygainer wrote:

The best fat burners are as follows:

ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin) - banned for stupid reasons
Clenbuterol (in inhalers) - hard to get w/o prescription for no reason
T3 (cytomel) - increases metabolism to ridiculous rates but only available from dodgy docs or dealers! (unless you're obese)

This isn't a dig at you as there is technically nothing wrong with what you said, but do you think it's wise recommending illegal supplements on an open access Fitness forum? Maybe I'm wrong, but a lot of posters here are relative beginners. T3 and clen are not to be taken lightly. This is a rhetorical question, but where do you/we draw the line when it comes to discussing weight loss, etc? When I described the supplements Zener enquired about should I have just told him to take D*P?

In another thread you mentioned a certain diuretic and a poster who was in Weightwatchers asked if it would help her to lose a few more pounds.

We're not talking about people dieting for a contest here, so I think we should be more mindful of the audience at hand. Let me know what you think?

Easygainer

RonanC wrote:

This isn't a dig at you as there is technically nothing wrong with what you said, but do you think it's wise recommending illegal supplements on an open access Fitness forum? Maybe I'm wrong, but a lot of posters here are relative beginners. T3 and clen are not to be taken lightly. This is a rhetorical question, but where do you/we draw the line when it comes to discussing weight loss, etc? When I described the supplements Zener enquired about should I have just told him to take D*P?

In another thread you mentioned a certain diuretic and a poster who was in Weightwatchers asked if it would help her to lose a few more pounds.

We're not talking about people dieting for a contest here, so I think we should be more mindful of the audience at hand. Let me know what you think?

If I say heroin, it doesn't put it in the person's veins.

Basically, I think everything OTC for dieting is a waste of money unless it's the food you're dieting with! You have to take more "hardcore" substances to burn weight and I just want to illustrate this.

If someone wants to get something they'll get it, even if they don't know the name! Besides, clen is in some inhalers like salbutamol is in others, eca was otc only a few years ago and t3 is encountered in leaving cert biology. If I gave sources, that would be a different matter all together...

Jak

You can discuss things here - but no sources, no advertising, no 'pm' me and no reckless promotion to people who may have no idea what they are getting in to.

I'm sure a good few of us here all have opinions on these matters, but there are other boards on other sites for in-depth conversations on the pros and cons.

gingerbreadman1

hi, im 18 and currently taking the fat loss supplement clen burexin
im in the gym 4 to 5 days a week for 1 hour sessions as well as cardio workout most mondays and every tuesdays and i want to start cardio on friday nights or saturday morning also...i got a pack of "L. crnitine + green tea" free with my last bottle of clen burexin...any1 wanting to take this supplement beware not to take it along with any other fat burner of energy booster after about 4 pm as the energy will keep you awake untill 2 or 3 in the morning...that being said pillheads dont go thinking you can pop some of these to keep u goin all night, its a steady boost of energy throughout the day and during a workout...

im just wondering does any1 else have much experience in the field of fat burning supplements, ive been reading about lipo6 and animal cuts but the thought of 18 pills a day (animal cuts) seems kind of gruelling nd lipo 6 hasnt been getting great reviews...congrats on the weight loss everybody and i hope i can shift this unsightly poundage before summer:P...those of you who say im young and have time to lose weight later in life can flip off:P...ive been at this since october but to no avail...and i know all to well how hard it is to lose weight when you get older so why not aim for a six pack now!!:P...please write back

Transform

gingerbreadman1 wrote: »

hi, im 18 and currently taking the fat loss supplement clen burexin
im in the gym 4 to 5 days a week for 1 hour sessions as well as cardio workout most mondays and every tuesdays and i want to start cardio on friday nights or saturday morning also...i got a pack of "L. crnitine + green tea" free with my last bottle of clen burexin...any1 wanting to take this supplement beware not to take it along with any other fat burner of energy booster after about 4 pm as the energy will keep you awake untill 2 or 3 in the morning...that being said pillheads dont go thinking you can pop some of these to keep u goin all night, its a steady boost of energy throughout the day and during a workout...

im just wondering does any1 else have much experience in the field of fat burning supplements, ive been reading about lipo6 and animal cuts but the thought of 18 pills a day (animal cuts) seems kind of gruelling nd lipo 6 hasnt been getting great reviews...congrats on the weight loss everybody and i hope i can shift this unsightly poundage before summer:P...those of you who say im young and have time to lose weight later in life can flip off:P...ive been at this since october but to no avail...and i know all to well how hard it is to lose weight when you get older so why not aim for a six pack now!!:P...please write back

mother of god enough with the smilies and you pulled a thread from 5 years ago!!!

Start a new tread and at 18 years old looking for your solution in a bottle is just plain sad - i 100% guarantee you are not training hard enough and your diet is not good enough without even seeing it.

bubblyone

Transform wrote: »

mother of god enough with the smilies and you pulled a thread from 5 years ago!!!

Start a new tread and at 18 years old looking for your solution in a bottle is just plain sad - i 100% guarantee you are not training hard enough and your diet is not good enough without even seeing it.

And calling yourself gingerbreadman is a sign of a bad diet....Ha!