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Smart employee happy to answer questions on bb rollout

  • 09-02-2005 11:15am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    Hi,

    My name is Garfield Connolly and I work for Smart Telecom. I am the Programme Manager for Smart’s DSL rollout. I’m starting this thread to address any queries this board may have about Smart’s DSL service/ rollout.

    I’ll answer any queries that I can. If I don’t respond straightaway, it’s because I’m busy, not avoiding the question. So please bear with me. If I am avoiding the question, I’ll let you know.

    I’ll be as frank as I can.

    About Smart Telecom’s DSL rollout.

    1. Smart Telecom’s DSL service is based on Local Loop Unbundling (LLU). This involves the physical co-location of Smart equipment in eircom exchanges and physically moving your phone line to our network.

    Having our own equipment in the exchange and operating LLU means Smart has full control over the services delivered. It also results in the phased rollout described elsewhere; we have to gain access to the exchanges, complete civils, install equipment, etc.

    2. Why 2MB?

    I’ve had DSL for two years. It’s a great advance on dial-up, but it’s not true broadband. We reckon 2MB is, so that’s what we are offering.

    3. Why €35?

    Whilst there are members of this board, and members of the broadband community in general, that would pay more for faster access, not everybody would. We believe that broadband should be 2MB and it should be more readily available. Charging more that at present doesn’t make sense in that context. So we charge less.

    4. Why free line rental?

    Broadband pentration is lower in Ireland that it should be/ could be/ needs to be. If you have broadband, you won’t go back to dialup. But not enough people have had that broadband epiphany. So offering free line rental is a good way of encouraging people to try broadband. Well we think so anyway.

    5. So why 2MB AND free line rental?

    There are two (maybe three) distinct groups of people that the Smart service will appeal to:

    1. I want faster broadband.
    2. I’m thinking of broadband, why should I choose you?
    3. I’ve never thought of broadband, but with your offer, I think I will now.

    Rather than offer 2 or 3 different services, we’re offering the one service. In the long run, it’s simpler.

    6. 2MB, €35, free line rental? Can’t be true.

    Well it is. We’ve run the numbers and it works. The reason it works is three fold.

    A) We’re using Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) so we aren’t rebadging eircom services.
    B) We’ve been running a Next Generation Network in the Enterprise/ Corporate space for the last year. We use the same base network to address the eircom exchanges. That network has a much lower cost base that legacy networks.
    C) It’s a full service offering. If you take broadband from us, we’ll also provide you with your voice service. It’s a successful voice service, you save money, we make some money.

    7. Contention ratios?

    Smart don’t provide details on contention ratios? Must be a huge cover up? No conspiracy theory here, sorry. Contention ratios exist in legacy networks to manage scant resources. Engineering contention back into our network would actually take more time and effort and just isn’t worth it.

    If you are interested, I have a brief explanation of the difference between the two types of network below.

    A) Contended network.

    Let’s say an ISP offers 1MB at 20:1 contention and has 100 customers in an exchange. In the contended network that looks like:

    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB

    Total

    100 customers: 5MB

    Now let’s say that the first 80 customers are on holidays, not using their Internet connection.

    The last 20 customers still only have access to their 1MB, even though there is another 4MB there. Because of the highly (restrictively) granular nature of the network, customers can’t benefit from the aggragate capacity available at the exchange.

    Make sense?

    B) So what about a not contended network?

    If the above ISP didn’t run a contended network it would like this:

    100 customers: 5MB

    Is that the same? No, because each user can use any available, under utilised capacity. As you’re reading this, you may not be downloading any other information. The nature of usage on the Internet is stop-start. So when you’re reading this, the capacity can be re-used.

    Of course, in this context, if 100 users are using 5MB, that will have the same effect on the individual user as 20 users using 1MB.

    So how is Smart different? We commit to running an actively managed, uncongested network. On occasion, if everyone is online at the same time (unlikely), for sure you may experience congestion. That congestion point may be the DSLAM, it may be the Internet in general, or it could be the website you are trying to get to.
    So we don’t contend the network. Nor do we say that the network is uncontended (i.e. a Committed Information Rate CIR). The network is NOT contended. This type of network is easier to manage and our customers benefit from the aggragate capacity available in each exchange.

    NB. The DSLAMs are connected to a 2.5G backbone, with GigE interfaces. Upgrading the capacity is about as simple as it gets, it’s down to the network management system, just a 3 minute job.

    8. Limits?

    There are no upload or download limits.

    9. Upload speed?

    It’s up to 2MB down and 128K up? Why the big move forwards on download and not upload. Two reasons.

    A. For most users it is the download speed that is important. Not the upload. Okay, a generalisation, but a valid one.
    B. ADSL2+ is still asymetric. We could amend the upload speed, but not to the same extent as the download. If there is enough interest for higher upload speeds, we would be happy to look at it. There would be a charge involved.

    10. I checked my line on the website and I pass, but I fail on eircom’s?

    The website checks only that your telephone line is connected to an exchange that we are installing DSLAMs in. That’s the first qualification. The next qualification is an engineering line test. These cost money. We have to pay eircom to test the line. If you’re definitely interested in the service, we’ll run the test.

    We are rolling out ADSL2+. That’s greater bandwidth over greater distance. So if you failed eircom’s line test, you may pass Smart’s. That will all be part of the engineering line test.

    If you register for the service and we aren’t able to offer you the service, then walk away. We won’t hold you to a contract we can’t commit to. Now the offer is up to 2MB. If depending on your line conditions you can only get 1MB, or 512K, then you can decide of free line rental is still a compelling enough offer.

    NB. We have had some issues with the exchange availability website. Initially, if you entered a telephone number that wasn’t on the current rollout list, it said that we were coming to your exchange, but we didn’t have a date for that. It should have said that your exchange is not on our current rollout. That doesn’t mean we won’t, but we haven’t confirmed intentions to go to that exchange yet. ‘Yet’ is important, the rollout will be ‘rolling’, always adding more exchanges.

    11. You have to sign up to Smart’s CPS/ WLR product to get the service?

    No. When you go live on the broadband service, we’ll be carrying your voice calls, both in and out. So while you’re waiting for the broadband offer to come to your local exchange, what can you do?

    We would like you to register and commit to the service, based on a timely rollout to your exchange and our ability to offer you the service over your telephone line. Ideally, in the hopefully short period of time between now and then, we would like you to join for CPS and WLR. It means you’re a customer straightaway and it’s easier to manage the transition of existing customers to broadband that brand new customers.

    Don’t believe that? It’s true.


    12. eircom won’t let us into exchanges?

    There is an established process for physical colocation. It’s not as fast a process as we would like, but what process is? The process, as it stands, works.

    13. So what’s all this in the press about LLU?

    We want a tighter integrated process between LLU (moving your line to our network) and GNP (moving your telephone number to our network). Both processes exist independently; we want them to exist as one product. There are other issues being discussed, but for us, this is the substantive one.

    14. What if I register for the service but the Smart service doesn’t come to my exchange before 100,000 customers go live?

    Well, hopefully this won’t be an issue. But it if it does happen, we’ll honour our commitment to you. So, if you’re customer 100,001 but are in the first 100,000 registered customers, you’ll get free line rental for life.


    This has been a very long post, so if you’ve got this far, thanks for reading.

    If you do have additional questions, like I said at outset, I’ll try and be as frank as I can.

    Thanks,

    Garfield.


«13456716

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 Blaster99


    Great to see a Smart rep on Boards!

    My questions:

    "13. So what’s all this in the press about LLU?": It's not clear from your answer whether this is holding you up or not. Is it?

    - Are you planning to offer SDSL-like services, like 2048/2048? Seems to make sense to go after this market as leased line rates are in fantasy land in Ireland. You're basically kissing the business market goodbye with a 2048/128 offering.

    - Why does Eircom need to run a line test? The reason I'm asking is that we have a particularly low opinion of Eircom and their line tests. It seems they have set the threshold too high to date. In most countries it's a suck and see, i.e. install the equipment and deal with any issues after that. Why not do the same here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 spongebob


    Garfield.

    <warning>

    BEWARE the heinous crime of PIMPING , PM a Mod if you don't know what I mean :) .

    IMO your article is heavy on the marketing guff and lite on the info but there were questions raised about Smart.

    IMO you shoulda replied to the thread where the questions were raided.

    <end warning>


  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ j_nolan


    We certainly appreciate you taking the time to post here. Can you tell me when you plan to offer your service in Wexford town? I can absolutely guarentee you one customer.

    Thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 651 sirlinux


    Is this offer open to business as well? does it matter if the line is already on eircom DSL, can you switch it over?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭ Splendid


    Probably a stupid question, but at the minute i don't have the phone line connected. Was going to go for IBB, but would be very interested in this. So is there anyway of finding out roughly what areas might be available? Before i connect the phone. Also can Smart telecom activate my line or does it have to be Eircom?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭ PowerHouseDan


    Do you know when it will be available in cork, The Hettyfeild exchange


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    Garfield.

    <warning>

    BEWARE the heinous crime of PIMPING , PM a Mod if you don't know what I mean :) .

    IMO your article is heavy on the marketing guff and lite on the info but there were questions raised about Smart.

    IMO you shoulda replied to the thread where the questions were raided.

    <end warning>

    Thanks for the advice SpongeBob.

    Fair point about posting into the original thread. There were so many questions though, I thought a seperate thread may help.

    Like I said, I'll answer any question that I can. I'm not 'PIMPING', that's what we have a marketing budget for. Just trying to help.

    Garfield.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    Blaster99 wrote:
    Great to see a Smart rep on Boards!

    My questions:

    "13. So what’s all this in the press about LLU?": It's not clear from your answer whether this is holding you up or not. Is it?

    - Are you planning to offer SDSL-like services, like 2048/2048? ..........

    - Why does Eircom need to run a line test? .....

    There is no hold up on the rollout of services.
    No plan for SDSL at present, though the DSLAMs and the network will support it. We'll react to market demand.
    Eircom's line test just returns raw line characteristics. Eircom then runs that raw data against their thresholds and gives a 'Yes' or a 'No' (I assume that's how it works for them).
    We'll take the raw data and run it against our thresholds. As we're rolling out ADSL2+, hopefully we'll have greater success with the 'Yes'/'No' question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭✭✭ thebigdude


    Hi. I am probably one of the first people who posted on this forum about Smart's DSL service back in January (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=215053), and have been waiting for it for the past month... Everyone thought i was a Smart rep, but know they know they were wrong and ignorant...

    Anyway, I live in Leeson street, and the exchange there is the Merrion exchange (coe MERD) and the subexchange is Adelaide rooad.

    Unfortunately, my telephone number falls into the category:

    "Unfortunately, Smart Broadband is not yet available to you! The date of availability is yet to be confirmed."

    I checked a couple other numbers i know of and they were March/April and July/August... And the March/April number is literally only 900 metres from my place.

    So does that mean my exchange won't be enabled till after August? Seems to me Smart will take just as long as NTL is rolling out it's service, but all Smart has to do is "enable" and exchange for hundreds of potential customers...

    We all know Eircom will be releasing ADSL2 in the 2nd half of this year also, so it would be in Smart's interest i would think to update ALL exchanges in Dublin ASAP... before people are locked into 12 month contracts with the others...

    Garfield, please tell me when the Merrion exchange will be enabled... I would rather hear "NEVER" than "I don't know..." as the latter always means the former anyway...

    I would appreciate an explanation of why some exchanges are enabled MUCH before others even though they are very close.

    Please reply...
    Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    sirlinux wrote:
    Is this offer open to business as well? does it matter if the line is already on eircom DSL, can you switch it over?

    Yes it's available to business too.
    If you've eircom DSL you'll need to get out of contract first. But that's about your retail arrangement with eircom, rather than any technical reason why you can't.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭✭✭ thomasb


    7. Contention ratios?

    Smart don’t provide details on contention ratios? Must be a huge cover up? No conspiracy theory here, sorry. Contention ratios exist in legacy networks to manage scant resources. Engineering contention back into our network would actually take more time and effort and just isn’t worth it.

    If you are interested, I have a brief explanation of the difference between the two types of network below.

    A) Contended network.

    Let’s say an ISP offers 1MB at 20:1 contention and has 100 customers in an exchange. In the contended network that looks like:

    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB
    20 customers: 1MB

    Total

    100 customers: 5MB

    Now let’s say that the first 80 customers are on holidays, not using their Internet connection.

    The last 20 customers still only have access to their 1MB, even though there is another 4MB there. Because of the highly (restrictively) granular nature of the network, customers can’t benefit from the aggragate capacity available at the exchange.

    Make sense?

    Possibly - but thats not how it works with the Eircom/Netsource/Esat/UTV/Digiweb offerings.

    Eircom simply run 5 MB in to the exchange in this scenario - this means that 5MB is there for all 100 customers to share.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,891 Jammer


    If you get a minute you could maybe answer this...

    I put my number into the smart website and it said congratulations etc, i'll be ready in May/June. The problem is, my line fails on eircom website, and all my neighbours pass. I have been onto eircom and they refuse to investigate what the problem is. My house is less then 3 years old, so the line should be fine. They can't tell wether or not the line actually has been tested, or if it was tested and failed. Its like talking to a brick wall dealing with those guys. Can smart physically test lines, or do u rely on eircom like esat/utv/digiweb etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    TheBigDude,

    Bad news on Merrion. To offer our services we have to install equipment in the eircom exchange. That requires footprint (space) and power. We also need to build a fibre connection to our equipment in the exchange.

    We aren't able to install equipment in Merrion. I believe there are issues external to eircom regarding power.

    Exchanges that are close to our fibre network come on-net quicker and we prioritise the rollout on that bases.

    Garfield.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭ garthv


    Im just finished my IOL contract and I dont know what BB provider to go with next. This seems too good a deal to give up but ive got a few questions first.

    Why only 128k upload? To some people it mightn't matter but to other(like myself) it would matter a lot and when you say a "charge" will be involved,how much of a "charge" are we talking about?

    Its great to see you company posting on boards.ie as most other broadband companies are just afraid of us and our hateful ways:). What made you come onto this board?

    I live in the Blanchardstown area and I just cancelled my BB connection ( IOL ) and if I go with IBB I can have my BB back within a month or so,how long is it going to take to get from me filling out the application form to me surfing the web with your ISP?

    Thanks in advance


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭ RobertFoster


    Uncapped 2048/128 for €35 in Ireland:eek:

    Pity it's "Unfortunately, Smart Broadband is not yet available to you! The date of availability is yet to be confirmed." for me too :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    Jammer wrote:
    If you get a minute you could maybe answer this...

    I put my number into the smart website and it said congratulations etc, i'll be ready in May/June. The problem is, my line fails on eircom website, and all my neighbours pass. I have been onto eircom and they refuse to investigate what the problem is. My house is less then 3 years old, so the line should be fine. They can't tell wether or not the line actually has been tested, or if it was tested and failed. Its like talking to a brick wall dealing with those guys. Can smart physically test lines, or do u rely on eircom like esat/utv/digiweb etc?

    Jammer,

    Line tests can be very frustrating. Our website is checking that you are connected to an exchange we are going to. That's all. There needs to be an additional line test to check the actual line.

    We'll take the raw line test data from eircom and cross check that against our equipment. As we're rolling out ADSL2+, there is a better chance of you getting service from ourselves that from an ADSL only service. NB. It's only a better chance, no promises.

    In the residential space, the other operators you mention are using the eircom equipment in the exchange to provide service, so if it fails for one, it will fail for all.

    We can request that eircom test the line and provide us with the raw data. There's a charge involved, so ideally, you would have committed to contract before we did this. Of course, if you would still fail the test on our equipment, the contract would be nullified.

    Garfield.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,317 Chalk


    i know your probably gonna get a load of these....

    any word on sutton?

    all sorts of broadband seems to be popping up around my ears
    ibb in raheny, ftth in baldoyle now adsl2 in coolock/belcamp exchanges

    it says not confirmed, but are there even plans to extend it this way ,since, considering the exchange isnt really in line with any others, so it means running your cable all the way out to us with nowhere else to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭ Praetorian


    I'm delighted to see Smart are perparing to offer xdsl LLU!

    As you may or may not know, alot of people use their connections for gaming. Are you planning to have interleaving turned off (like esat business), or slightly on like eircoms radsl, or fully on like eircoms adsl products?

    Personally, I think Smart are making a fairly big mistake by not offering 256 up with your b/b offering. I'm sure it wouldn't cost much, if anything extra. A lot of commonly used web applications would benefit from the extra bandwidth. For example, sending emails with large attachments is currently very time consuming. Proper web cam use is not possible with only 128 up. Gaming on more than one computer at a time is not possible on 128. Nearly every other dsl provider in every other country has 256 up as the minimum.

    Also, I think only offering a 2m/bit connection is also a mistake. A lot of people would gladly pay more for additional bandwidth. Personally I wouldn't mind paying €65 per month for 4096 x 512. It would also be worth offering a really cheap basic connection. Something like 1024 x 128 for say €25 per month if possible.

    So to summarise I would suggest a product range from

    1024x128 @ €25 pm
    2048x256 @ €35 pm
    4096x512 @ €65 pm


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,305 koneko


    I'd be interested to see what the pings are like, but as Praetorian mentioned, the upload isn't great, and both myself and my bf play online so despite the fact it sounds good on paper... it probably wouldn't be for us and our needs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭ digitalninja


    I wouldn't buy it if its only 128k up.
    256k is reasonable.

    I run my own little webserver/Mailserver/VPN on my 256k up line at the
    moment and I find even that quite slow for some operations.

    The previous poster is right.
    If you want to get interest from business consumers you're giong to have to up the upload.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 BaronGreenBack


    I am just coming to the end of a contract and would be strongly thinking about moving to another provider but "Unfortunately, Smart Broadband is not yet available to you! The date of availability is yet to be confirmed." How long am I going to have to wait (rough estimate)?!? I'm in Trim, Co. Meath.

    Also from what I've read Eircom will continue to fight LLU, do you see this as being a potential problem? Eircom have the amazing ability to drag things like this out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭ GarfieldConnoll


    GaRtH_V wrote:
    Im just finished my IOL contract and I dont know what BB provider to go with next. This seems too good a deal to give up but ive got a few questions first.

    Why only 128k upload? To some people it mightn't matter but to other(like myself) it would matter a lot and when you say a "charge" will be involved,how much of a "charge" are we talking about?

    A 256k upstream service may (MAY) become available. We'll keep an eye on interest in it. As for how much? Don't know. We would have to run the numbers on it. Probably more that you'd like, but not onerous.
    GaRtH_V wrote:
    Its great to see you company posting on boards.ie as most other broadband companies are just afraid of us and our hateful ways:). What made you come onto this board?
    Been lurking for a while. Saw TheBigDude's posting where everyone thought he was a Smart employee and thought it would be a good idea to post once the service was announced. Also saw the other postings after the announcement and thought I might be able to answer some questions.
    GaRtH_V wrote:
    I live in the Blanchardstown area and I just cancelled my BB connection ( IOL ) and if I go with IBB I can have my BB back within a month or so,how long is it going to take to get from me filling out the application form to me surfing the web with your ISP?
    The rollout dates are provided on www.smarttelecom.ie. That's the short answer.

    Garfield.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dub45


    A couple of questions on the practical side of things.

    What consideration have Smart given to subscribers changing from their ISP to Smart so as to minimise downtime. A lot of people will be at some stage of a 12 month contract while anyone finished the contract still has to give a minimum of a month's notice.

    People dont want to be without a bb connection so what communication do smart propose with customers to enable them to give notice to their current isp so as to coordiante connection.

    Have Smart looked into the time it is likely to transfer a connection to Smart.
    There have been some horror stories on here of people spending long periods waiting to be connected to a new isp on transfer.

    To be honest I am sceptical too of Smart bringing new bandwidth on line to meet new demand. How long is this likely to take? what would trigger it?
    It just seems your product is a dream for people who download all day and a potential nightmare for the rest of us. Will Smart be giving any guarantees as regards quality of service?

    All of the other isps are long on terms and conditions but very short on thier own obligations to customers.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭ dub45


    Forgot to say it is a good start to see a Smart employee on here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,144 eircomtribunal


    We can request that eircom test the line and provide us with the raw data. There's a charge involved, so ideally, you would have committed to contract before we did this. Of course, if you would still fail the test on our equipment, the contract would be nullified.

    Garfield.

    I appreciate your posting on boards very much.

    My question: I was told by ComReg that LLU providers can ask the incumbent to provide them with a clean line, or clean up the line as in take carrier equipment out of it etc. and that Esat/Bt has done so with its unbundling.

    Am I correct in that assumption?

    P.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,339 tman


    appologies if this has been asked/answered beforehand.

    how much traffic per month would be deemed "excessive"?

    hopefully galway gets connected in may/june as proposed :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭ Emerson


    Yea, 256k or 384k should be the norm with such a product. The increase in download, increases demand for upload respectively.
    Fair enough, you won't be making it symetrical but when multiplying the download speed by 4, at least do the same with the upload or x3 (384) or x2 (256).

    I would assume you have a symetric leased line to your centre, so cost is minimal, the bandwidth is already there. ADSL has a 768k upload limit. I'm sure ADSL2 has an even higher one.

    I'd prefer 512k down / 384k up to 2meg down / 128k up for €35


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    I appreciate your posting on boards very much.

    My question: I was told by ComReg that LLU providers can ask the incumbent to provide them with a clean line, or clean up the line as in take carrier equipment out of it etc. and that Esat/Bt has done so with its unbundling.

    Am I correct in that assumption?
    I'm going to piggyback on this one ET. Will Smart be running their own line evaluations over unbundled lines, or would it be an identical test what eircom would carry out anyway - i.e. would the raw data returned be identical?

    Thanks for posting Garfield, hopefully you don't get too much abuse, it's happened in the past..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 Blaster99


    He's already answered that above. They will use Eircom raw line data and compare it against ADSL2+ thresholds.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,762 WizZard


    I would also be very interested in this product. However the miniscule upload capacity is currently the only thing thing that would put me off. Are SMART going to 'run the numbers' soon?
    And if so what sort of offering would you be making?

    My ideal (realistic) package would be 2048/512 or 2048/384

    Oh, and welcome to boards!


This discussion has been closed.
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