Kevin Myers: What do you think of him?

omnicorp

Kevin Myers, who writes in "An Irishmans Diary" on the Irish Times has extremely right wing views I think.
He's funny if you don't take him seriously but what do others think fo him?
Do you find him insulting, or funny, or does he have a point?

mike65

I like Myers, cos he does'nt subscribe to the UCD/Trinity "left liberal" orthodoxy which has been prevalent among Irish meeja types for 2 generations.

Mike.

Hairy Homer

mike65 wrote:

I like Myers, cos he does'nt subscribe to the UCD/Trinity "left liberal" orthodoxy which has been prevalent among Irish meeja types for 2 generations.

Mike.

But not this one, eh Mike. As I have tried to demonstrate elsewhere, the majority of 'quality press' comment and coverage in this country, including the Irish Times, is rabidly right wing.

As for Myers, he has a wonderful prose style. Shame about the ideas that he uses it to express.

monument

He can be funny at times, then frustratingly annoying the next day.

mwnger

I think he's on MI5's payroll. Or would it be MI6? ...;)

omnicorp

Maybe, but I think he's Tony Blair in disguise

HomesickAlien

although i disagree with him on a lot of issues (sinn fein being an exception), i still think hes a pretty good writer

(and yes he can be hugely annoying)

omnicorp

agreed anoying, but he's also right on:

Toll Booths
IRA Sinn Fein
Gardai, Road Accidents
and to a certain extent (he goes abit far) on feminism

simu

He is often funny.

On rare accasions, I find myself agreeing with him.

Many of his articles seem to be written on auto-pilot, though. He spews out the same anti-Irish-language one every couple of months, for example. That can get tedious.

omnicorp

and the bi monthly tollbooth rant, yes, he does focus on the same 6/7 topics all the time aswell, he seems to be writing more articles lately though but I can't help but feel dissapointed when someone writes in that diary

parasite

hrmmm, the shít's going to hit the fan for his article today calling all children of lone parents bastards
muppet

DublinWriter

Myers? A mediocre journalist at best who had to increasingly resort to personal rants and opinion pieces in order to even generate the slightest interest in his ‘work’. Kilroy is another example of this.

As for ‘Kevin Myers – An Irishman’s Diary’ – what a bleedin’ oxymoron!

He should go the same way (as that other West Brit journalist) Mary Ellen Synon (remember her?) after her disgraceful remarks about the Special Olympics got her the sack from the Sindo a few years back.

Personally I’d love to see another failed Brit journalist get sent back home.

RE*AC*TOR

parasite wrote:

hrmmm, the shít's going to hit the fan for his article today calling all children of lone parents bastards
muppet

indeed - it was raised in the senate last night.

Nevyn

Mr Myers has with his highly charged comments cut his nose off to despite his face bringing back the stigmatism of children with the term Bastard will not fix or change anything.

In fact Mr Myers article may the whole topic even harder to deal with , and not blow it all open for the frank but not insulting discussion it needs.

mike65

RTE have gone into overdrive today every programme has covered the ho-ha,
the tone is wearily familair based around the issue of politcially correct use of language. Meyers spoke his brain and now its "an issue" for all to waffle on about. He does'nt have to explain himself, either you agree or disagree.

As for your west brit crack DublinWriter - I think that says more about you than him.

Mike.

karlh

He's a pompous bastard in the modern meaning of the word.

monument

Using the phrases "Mother of bastards", "MoBs", and "FoBs", which are now considered as terms of abuse, only undermines any point Myers was trying to make.

While he must have known the word ‘bastard’ is considered as abusive, I don’t think his point was just to cause offence.

Nevyn

Well there is also the use of his term of umarried mothers instead of single mothers or lone parents, there is a big difference someone that is not married and those 'making a career out of mothering bastards'. Also that all the Bastard children will never ammount to anything or ever be postive productive memebers of society.

He may be entitled to his opion but not to express it in such a form
in a national paper esp when that same publication with his colum was being handed out in schools.

Ger Kenndy failed in her role as editor as far as I am concerned.

karlh

I don't think he intentionally set out solely to offend but I don't think he cares about any offence he caused.

As you say, he has undermined a quite valid point which he could have made, that some people and situations are less ideal for bringing up children than others. As a bastard myself, I don't see how having unmarried parents is one of them.

The man is a stuck up toff living in the past but I don't think he should lose his job. I think censorship on any level is wrong but i'm sure an apology and some nice PR will probably calm the whole thing down and he can get back to talking about the price of lemongrass and the leaky cup he got his latté in this morning.

Phil_321

I don't agree with the way he said it, but he's touching on something that should be debated. I'm disappointed he hasn't had the guts to defend/discuss his article so far today. He's probably shocked at the extremely negative response it's received.

omnicorp

his language undermined a valid point he was trying to make, while it was very extreme, the issue he was trying to bring up should be discussed.

Wertz

Phil_321 wrote:

I don't agree with the way he said it, but he's touching on something that should be debated. I'm disappointed he hasn't had the guts to defend/discuss his article so far today. He's probably shocked at the extremely negative response it's received.

...and therein lies the problem. By using this tone to make (or force) a very valid argument, he has gotten the whole argument snowed under with the hatred apparent in any RTÉ news program aired today.
Being a bastard myself, I have no problem with that term, but it's easy to see how some people could take offence. However if you look bastard up in a dictionary the definition is accurate for the context in which he used it. Maybe subconciously he meant to air it as a double meaning. That's open to interpretation.

The outcry to this whole thing is another weary step on Ireland's road to PC hell.
I HATE political correctness. I despise it. It's Orwell's Newspeak made real and it is counter-productive IMO.
Myer's has offended a lot of people, and I personally never liked him anyway, but he makes a very valid point (if not very well) about the attitudes existant toward the provision of social welfare/housing for planned teen pregnancies in this country...

He needs to apologise and his editor needs a big slap on the wrist, but in the same breath some PC people need to calm the f**k down and get a grip on real english again...

omnicorp

I don't see the problem with "Bastard", I do see a problem with his generalisations.

Wertz

omnicorp wrote:

I don't see the problem with "Bastard", I do see a problem with his generalisations.

No clear minded individual should see a problem with the term Bastard, but that seemed to be one of the major sticking points with Jo Public today.
"OMG he called MY child a bastard?!! That scumbag!" etc.


I agree he generalised , and invalidated some of his argument due to that, but somewhere in that article is a very important point that needs to be and should be made...

Aftereight

Myers is a member of the National Union of Journalists. Their code od conduct states that : " A journalist shall only mention a person's age, race, colour, creed, illegitimacy, disability, marital status or (lack of it), gender or sexual orientation if this information is strictly relevant. A journalist shall neither orginate nor process material which encourages discrimination, ridicule, prejudice or hatred on any of the above mentioned grounds."
For Mr Myers to ignore this is not surprising but for Ms Kennedy, the Lady of D'Olier Street, is unforgivable. It will be interesting to see how, tomorrrow, they wriggle out of what is indefensible.

MrPudding

I think the main problem is the word doesn't just have 1 meaning now.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bastard

I was born out of wedlock and as such am a bastard. In his article he seems to be implying that these children of unmarried mothers will never amount to much and are likely to turn to crime and other such anti-social tendencies. This gives the impression that he is not only using the term to simply describe a child born out of wedlock, a use of the term I fully accept as I am one, but also to describe them as inferior or disagreeable.

Someone on the radio mentioned that the percentage of children actually born to single teenage mothers is very small, when compared to children born to unwed mothers in general. I haven't found any figures to confirm this but if it is true it make his comments even more inappropriate.

MrP

Talliesin

What a bastard.

Aftereight

You can check out the statistics on
www.nationmaster.com

In 1996 3,138 babies were born to teenage girls.

Aftereight

"The bastard. He doesn't exist" Samuel Beckett

monument

Aftereight wrote:

Myers is a member of the National Union of Journalists. Their code od conduct states that :

Blah, blah, blah.... or it might as well say such - most journalists/newspapers break one or another of the rules every day.

I’m not fully sure if I agree or disagree with what he was saying, I didn’t agree with how he was saying it, but using the NUJ's code of conduct as a way to knock Myers or the IT is a farce. Why? - Their code of conduct is a farce that is ignored by most journalists, newspapers, and other media organisations.


After* he first uses the word ‘bastard’, Myers even tries to explain that he is using it to describe what he sees as not children with mothers who have being abandoned, but children who have known fathers who actually contribute (or as he puts it ‘donates’) when it suits them (avoiding legal child support). Thus he claims the technical (not the abusive term) ‘bastard’ is suitable, and something like ‘lone parent’ is not. He goes on to more then imply that the welfare system is being abused by this group of parents, and that ‘liberal’ laws (which are open to abuse) have caused the pattern of “MoBs” [sic].

As I’ve said I really don’t think he was trying to cause offence for the sake of doing so. He causes offence once nearly every piece he writes get published, the only real difference is that in this case it was more of the words he used then what he said.

If I had the choice, would I have let it go to the publishers? Probably not, but only because the technical word ‘bastard’ is completely overshadowed by the slang word, so much so that the technical word should be abandoned.

(*which is too late, no one is really reading anymore)

utopian

Did anyone listen to Vincent Browne and panel talking about it last night? As a lefty, I do my fair share of tut-tutting, but even I was unable to stomach the indignation, the disgust, the..the OUTRAGE they all felt.

Eve e

Had the missfortune to be given one of his books as a pressie

There is a whole chapter about the name KEVIN

It just underlines what a self-obsessed knob he is

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote:

As for your west brit crack DublinWriter - I think that says more about you than him.

It wasn't a crack, it was a fact. While you're looking up the definition of the word Bastard, check out the phrase 'West Brit' too. I think I'm factually correct in calling him that.

kida

I think the issue he is raising is very valid. However the maneer of the article left a little to to be desired. With some careful editing it could have been a very good article making a very valid point.

He or the editor should not lose their jobs. What happened to "Freedom of Speech". He should however come out and debate the issues instead of hiding away.

A Dub in Glasgo

Myers has been regurgitating the same rants every year and has been doing it for years now. A petty man who still thinks it is funny to pen his silly AID in the Irish Times and he gets paid for the rehashing of any old crap.

bringitdown

Storm -> teacup.

Next "scandal" please.

Sleepy

bringitdown wrote:

Storm -> teacup.

Next "scandal" please.

hear hear

Though I'm not surprised at some of the people here that are taking any chance to get a bash back in at Myers.

BaZmO*

To the people saying that they have no problem with him using the word Bastard as it is "technically" correct. What if he had of used the "N" word to describe a black person because after all that word would also be "technically" correct.

He knew what he was doing when he used the word and unfortunately for him it back fired!

B.

Maximilian

Missed that particular edition of AID but was very amused reading the IT this morning. KM begging for mercy and a whole page of letters written by the outraged, Yorkshire Terrier owning tea drinkers of this country. God bless KM.

A Dub in Glasgo

bringitdown wrote:

Storm -> teacup.

Next "scandal" please.

This thread is not about his latest 'storm', it is about the man himself and his writing.

Hairy Homer

Quite. And he hasn't apologised for his views. Just for the way in which he expressed them.

I don't really think he's a West Brit either. My understanding of a West Brit is a southern Irish Loyalist. Somebody, usually from the landed gentry, whose family ancestry and identity is British and whose family came to Ireland when it was part of the United Kingdom. Such people naturally feel links to the 'old country' in much the same way that the Tony Cascarino's, Adrian McGeady's and KEvin Kilbane's of this world feel some connection to Ireland.

Myers' ancestry is largely (so far as I know) Irish. His father emigrated to England for work purposes and it is there where young Kevin was born. But he has lived most of his life in Ireland.

A 'person of a particular viewpoint' maybe; but a West Brit? Hardly.

bringitdown

Okay okay, must be more pedantic.

Every so often, in fact make that often his contributions to the Irish Times have caused me raise my eyes at their idiocy and short-sightedness, but occassionally they make me chuckle. It did not in the least surprise me that he was the originator of a such a stupid view, but nor did it enrage me. He is paid to air his thoughts, and air them he did.

This thread would have attracted so much interest if said "storm", that ill-chosen word, had not occured and in my opinion should not have happened anyway. His views on single parenting would have been the same, inflamattory and dangerously wrong, bastard or no bastard.

Anyway discuss on but I still think the whole thing is pointless. He is hardly going to be fired, he is not going to go away, and if he pisses you off, don't read his column.

/ducks

Talliesin

Kevin Myers:
Oh, "Bastards", "Knackers". Bwahahaha I'll generate controversy and then point out the dictionary definition of the word and get away from it all. Why, I'm the smartest man in Ireland.

John Waters:
"Women are biatches, bloody Feminists" There, how do you like those apples Sinéad?

Morrigan

Hairy Homer wrote:

Quite. And he hasn't apologised for his views. Just for the way in which he expressed them.

Hairy Homer wrote:

Quite. And he hasn't apologised for his views. Just for the way in which he expressed them.

http://212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=133209492&p=y33zyxy98&n=133210252

Indeed. 'Never his intention to insult anyone'... Excuse me if I'm a little sceptical about this. A man of his intelligence would have known that the use of the phrases 'Welfare addict' and 'Bastard' would be insulting to someone. Therefore his conscious decision to use these phrases was a conscious descision to be insulting.
In my opinion Myers writes about certain subjects with the main intention of going against the grain, rather than because he really believes what he is writing. He is a good writer, as in he can express himself well, and in an entertaining way. And it is refreshing, even educational sometimes, to read about subjects from his 'unacceptable/unP.C.' point of view. But he is controversial for the sake of being controversial - which is fundamentally immature, and entirely dissolves any integrity that he may otherwise have.

pickarooney

Talliesin wrote:

Kevin Myers:
Oh, "Bastards", "Knackers". Bwahahaha I'll generate controversy and then point out the dictionary definition of the word and get away from it all. Why, I'm the smartest man in Ireland.

John Waters:
"Women are biatches, bloody Feminists" There, how do you like those apples Sinéad?

/me likes

simu

He has an apology in today's Irish Times.

djcasco

can anyone send me a link or point me in the way of getting a copy of last tuesdays article,by Kevin Myers

henderik

[QUOTE=DublinWriter]Myers? A mediocre journalist at best who had to increasingly resort to personal rants and opinion pieces in order to even generate the slightest interest in his ‘work’. Kilroy is another example of this.

As for ‘Kevin Myers – An Irishman’s Diary’ – what a bleedin’ oxymoron!

He should go the same way (as that other West Brit journalist) Mary Ellen Synon (remember her?) after her disgraceful remarks about the Special Olympics got her the sack from the Sindo a few years back.

Personally I’d love to see another failed Brit journalist get sent back home.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. Although he can be funny (like we all can when we are publicly caustic to people), he doesn't really have much more to offer. Poor man's Jeremy Paxman, methinks.

Talliesin

Mary Ellen Synon wasn't a West Brit, she was (ironically enough) an immigrant from the US.

A Dub in Glasgo

I think the use of 'West Brit' in this instance is synonymous with a person who would prefer if Irish Independence never took place and would look to all things British for moral guidance. That is my take on 'West Brit', is there a universal definition? I wuld put Ruth Edwards in the the above category.

simu

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I think the use of 'West Brit' in this instance is synonymous with a person who would prefer if Irish Independence never took place and would look to all things British for moral guidance. That is my take on 'West Brit', is there a universal definition?

Mine too. Kevin Myers is not a West Brit.

Not exactly official but it seems spot on:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-wes1.htm